BS: Mobile penalties

Subject: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 06:58 AM

Fines for using hand held mobile phones whilst driving double this week and 3 points will be added to a driving licence.

There are still a lot of people using hand held mobiles whilst driving so it will be interesting to see if the increased penalties make a difference to that number.

It annoys me when I see people doing it but I sort of did it myself recently! I was on my way to work and the traffic was at a complete standstill (for a long time) due to a traffic accident. In desperation I used my mobile phone to let my work know that I would be late. Presumably I could be fined for doing that, or would those circumstances be overlooked?

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: gnomad
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 07:18 AM

My understanding is that even if you had been calling the emergency services you would have been committing an offence, for which you could be penalised. I would hope that such a case would not be brought, or would be handled with commonsense if brought. Bet there's a case within the year.

What puzzles me is the people who seem unaware that their phone can be switched off; they leave them on in all sorts of inapropriate places [including when driving] and answer them without a seconds thought. If the conversations one is forced to witness were of earth-shattering importance I could be more sympathetic, but they seldom seem to raise themselves as far as being trivial.

I'll go back to bed, must've got out wrong side [yet]again.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 07:25 AM

The thing that I think is even more dangerous than having a phone to your ear is when people text when they are driving. It's more dangerous but it can't be as easy to detect.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 09:43 AM

It seems the penalties are mainly being enforced with some sense, ie they're being interpreted as a specialised case of driving without due care and attention, so if you are sitting in a stationary traffic jam, you're fairly safe.

I usually have a magic device for device for dealing with phone calls whilst driving. It's called a passenger.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Scooby Doo
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:01 AM

I am pleased at last that there is a penalty for using your phone while driving its taken mqany years to inforce.




Scooby

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:19 AM

What jurisdiction is it that is finally doing this? Not clear from the above.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:24 AM

"If the conversations one is forced to witness were of earth-shattering importance I could be more sympathetic" -

Contrarily, those are the ones that worry me - the conversations that are of earth-shattering importance are the ones most likely to distract the driver from the task at hand.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 10:51 AM

Uncle DaveO - definitely England and Wales. I'm not sure about anywhere else but maybe somebody else will be able to help on that one.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:21 AM

DaveO, it varies from state to state and, in some cases, even community to community in the US. Here is a listing which was accurate as of Sept. 2006: Click Here.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:49 AM

i am sick of idiots who use mobiles whilst driving,they deserve everything they get

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 11:57 AM

Guest,ib48 I'm sure a lot of people would agree with that. The trouble is that a lot of them get away with it and of course if they have an accident which involves somebody else the other person doesn't deserve what they get. These new penalties won't stop it altogether either.

My husband uses hands free and I just keep mine switched off.

It did my heart good when I was out shopping one day and I saw one of two policemen racing (on foot) down the road in the centre of the town and then banging on the window of a car of someone who was using one and that person was then moved to the side of the road to be dealt with.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 12:13 PM

It doesn't really make sense to penalize someone who is using one in a stationary car. After all, at least in the US, they advise us to pull over to the side of the road and stop the vehicle to take or make a call.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 01:20 PM

I've heard of people been prosecuted calling for assistance when broken down at the side of the road. I don't know the outcome of such prosecutions, but it seems rather bizarre.

A driver using a phone in a moving vehicle deserves to be severely penalised - but then so do drivers who smoke whilst driving, too. Even worse, those who throw lighted cigarette ends out ot the window. In the days when I was a motorcyclist I had a cigarette end go up my visor thrown by such an idiot.

Another pet hate is the person who holds a conversation with their passenger and spends more time looking at that passenger than at the road ahead.

I don't really understand why people need to spend so much time on the phone... a motor vehicle is a potential killer, and people should get their priorities right. But I regularly see truck drivers doing it, too - there was a case recently where a trucker killed someone because he was fiddling with his mobile, noticed the vehicle in front wasn't moving and didn't have time to stop.

Someone once taught me to think everytime I put the key in the ignition... 'Today I will kill someone if I'm not careful'... it's a thought that still sticks with me.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Barry Finn
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 01:28 PM

In New Hampshire it's called a distraction law. If you're on a cell phone, drinking coffee, reading the news paper & you're in an accident you are held libel & at fault.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 01:54 PM

Using a phone in a stationary car pulled over to the side of the road isn't any kind of offence, of course. In a traffic jam which has ground completely to a halt there wouldn't be any offence involved either - if you were in the kind of jam where the traffic keeps edging along, and you used the phone during a momentary pause that might be a different matter.

They had an item on ITV News the other knight about they way that many drivers blithely rabbit into their phones while going along. What struck me as daft though was that in the shots they showed they deliberately electronically obscured the numbers of the cars involved. I can't imagine why.

The only sensible thing is to switch off the phone while driving.   Any phone calls you miss will be indicated in the phone's memory, and of you're expecting an urgent call you can pull off the road at intervals and check them.

One thing I was pleased to hear is that they are trying to penalise employers who phone delivery drivers and such while they are on the road. There have been a number of terrible accidents where the precipitating cause has been that a lorry driver was on the phone.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:26 PM

I thought this idea of penalising employers was a good one as well. If it is absolutely essential to keep in touch with people they will have to do what taxi drivers do.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: danensis
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 02:39 PM

What I find amazing is the number of times I have to dodge cars in our car park at work whose drivers have just set off and are jabbering away into their phones. Why not phone first and drive afterwards? Or is it the "I'm on my way home now darling" phenomenon?

John

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Gurney
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:28 AM

I've seen drivers either MAKING calls, or possibly even texting whilst driving. Stabbing away with the thumb, glancing from road to phone.....

I can't have a hand-held phone conversation whilst driving. I close my eyes. Never tried a hands-free.
Nor can I have the radio on, because I start singing along, try a harmony, close my eyes.....

I never had a problem when I smoked, or when conversing with a passenger. Blokes don't look at others so much.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 01:28 PM

The driving test should reflect what people actually do whilst driving.

Therefore you should be able to adjust the air conditioning or radio, or have a drink from a bottle of water or such like, without taking your eyes off the road for more than a fraction of a second, i.e. as you do to check your mirrors.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 02:56 PM

In my opinion, movies and television shows are a part of the problem. Have you noticed how frequently a driver gazes at his passenger? Even in a car chase, precious little attention is given to the road conditions; most of the action consists of zipping through a hole in the traffic or gunning it through an intersection or roaring through an alley.

(Somehow no stray cat gets squashed, no bike is suddenly in the roadway, no child dashes after his ball...)

I would not be at all surprised to find that youngsters, particularly, think that is what one calls 'driving'.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 03:25 PM

There has always been a law to penalise phone users, it's called 'driving without due care and attention' and is sadly not enforced enough.. I stand at a bus stop for an average of 20 minutes a day and the number of people I see driving past with the phone glued to their ear or no seatbelts is staggering.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: mick p r.m s.c
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 06:36 PM

Talking of undue care and attention while driving the craziest thing I have ever saw was a lady blow drying her hair from the center heater vent in her car. Ok we was in slow moving traffic but definitely a case of Driving without Due Hair and Attention. A true story by the way. Cheers Mick.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 04:28 AM

I've heard of people shaving whilst driving but never blow drying hair. I wouldn't even have realised that it was possible.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Wolfgang
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:05 AM

A German case of triple tasking: A business lady did drive, phone and operate her laptop (to find the right answer for the caller) at the same time.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Scrump
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:39 AM

A chap I used to work with had an accident with a driver who, it turned out, was putting his trousers on while driving. He was late for work and was attempting to save time by getting dressed on the way. I expect he was even later after that - serves the idiot right.

As for phones, I agree that using mobiles while driving is dangerous, and I've had near misses because the phone-using other driver was coming round a bend in the middle of the road, trying to steer round the corner with one hand.

I welcome the clampdown on people using phones while in motion, but I think it's unfair to charge stationary drivers for using mobiles.

Bernard's comments about smoking while driving I agree with too. I've never yet been hit by a flying fag-end while cycling, but I suppose it could happen. And I wonder if one has ever gone under the bonnet of the car behind, and ignited the petrol vapour? I would think if you dropped a lighted ciggie in your lap, it could cause a dangerous distraction.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Bernard
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 10:40 AM

I think the argument for including stationary drivers is the tenuous link between answering the phone whilst driving, stopping to deal with the call, and causing an accident or obstruction whilst so doing.

Whilst this could happen, booking people simply because they are using a mobile whilst in charge of a motor vehicle is stretching things too far.

The law was introduced for safety reasons, and a stationary vehicle is only causing danger if creating an obstruction - and there are already laws to deal with that.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:01 PM

How long will it be before the most obvious answer is applied. Detect that the phone is moving and mute transmission. Only when installed in a suitable hands free device could it be activated. It could even be muted when engine running.
Anyway Blue Tooth earpieces are very reasonably priced these days and if you have Sat Nav it can do the job for you. (Whoops, another can of worms just popped open there!)

Andy

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: GUEST,Denise
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 05:45 PM

My next door neighbours little boy was knocked over and killed by another neighbour who was reversing out of his drive whilst on his Phone. I would give anything not to have had my neighbour sitting in my garden crying or hours because his baby was dead; let alone dealing with his siblings.

Calls can wait; life is more important. Pick up the message when you can stop and ring back!

Fines and points are not enough. The only way to stop selfish people driving and talking on the 'phone is to introduce a compulsory ban on driving for 28 days. Make it hurt people and they will stop. Other than that, people will continue talking, accidents will happen and people will die.

Denise

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 06:00 PM

The sentences for causing deaths by dangerous driving eg. using a phone, never seem to be enough. If the penalties for using one are going to increase you would imagine that sentences for deaths caused by using one should also increase. Will this happen automatically or are the courts tied by guidelines that are already in place, or are they relying on the new penalties discouraging people enough so that these serious accidents will not happen?

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: Bernard
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 06:11 PM

Just like speeding and parking fines, a lot of people see the mobile legislation as just another chance they'll have to take.

Maybe the 28 day ban idea is the most likely to be effective...

As for death by dangerous driving, the ludicrous thing is having to prove intent to do harm... the flagrant disregard for the welfare of others does not seem to enter into the argument.

Until the law is changed to put the onus firmly upon the driver to take all reasonable precautions to ensure the safety of others, people will continue to escape justice.

In other words, all the court will need to prove is that the driver's actions were the direct cause of the accident which took someone's life. It would then be up to the driver to present mitigating evidence where appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Mobile penalties
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Feb 07 - 09:32 PM

If a 28 day ban would be effective, a year's ban would probably be still more effective.

The problem is detection. It's not as easy as "Detect that the phone is moving and mute transmission." That would mean that passengers in a car, or on a bus or train would be unable to make phone calls, and these probably actually outnumber the people who use mobiles while driving. If a passenger can phone the destination to explain you'll be late because of heavy traffic, for example, that can in fact reduce the chance of an accident happening because the driver is trying to make up lost time.

Perhaps the direct approach might work - as in the first item on this newsletter Swiftkill... quite possibly! :

The driver of this Swiftkill van [reg: LW51 EXK] was spotted chatting happily on his mobile phone with a handsfree, and remaining part of the traffic. We can only presume that the fact that he was somewhat distracted caused him to ignore the stop line at he lights. Once the lights changed he adeptly continued his journey, turning right, changed gear and didn't have to break his conversation. We have contacted swiftkill on [e-mail] to remind them that using a mobile phone is dangerous and in fact illegal; though whilst this law appears not to be enforced, drivers continue to flout it.