BS: How MD Dems work...

Subject: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 02:50 PM

Changing the Constitution
Maryland Democrats should set up a fairer system if they want voter approval for early balloting.
Wednesday, February 28, 2007; Page A18


MARYLAND VOTERS will probably get to decide whether the state constitution should be amended to allow early voting. Let's hope they show more discernment and judgment than the Democratic-controlled legislature that is muscling an ill-defined measure onto the ballot.

Both houses of the General Assembly have approved a constitutional amendment to permit early voting, making it almost certain there will be a referendum in 2008. The action follows a rancorous two-year fight in which Democrats rammed through measures that gave them a clear advantage over Republicans. For instance, the only places where people would have been able to vote ahead of time just happened to be in heavily Democratic precincts. Republicans were right to think the effort was more about helping Democrats than helping voters. The Democratic effort was thwarted when the Court of Appeals rejected the law, saying the constitution does not authorize voting on any day other than Election Day.

So the Democrats are back with a bid to amend the constitution, arguing that early voting is a civic good because, by making it easier to vote, it boosts turnout. Too bad that's not really true. The experience of other states has shown that early voting does not increase turnout in any significant way. It's important that any decision about whether to allow early voting be framed by the facts -- not politics. There are arguments pro and con. Voters like having the choice and convenience of early voting, and ballot counting is more accurate under the system. On the other hand, there are increased costs associated with maintaining extended polling places and more opportunities for fraud. Plus, Maryland already allows no-excuse absentee voting, so early voting may be duplicative.

Still, we would be inclined to favor anything that makes it easier for people to vote. The Democrats are right that a constitutional amendment should not be encumbered by operational details such as where polling places would be located; changing the constitution is the first step. But the lack of a mechanism to ensure fair implementation of early voting is worrisome -- particularly given the Democrats' record of playing politics with the issue.

The House and Senate still must work out the differences between their respective bills. It's only fair that they also set up a system whereby voter approval of the amendment would trigger establishment of a bipartisan commission charged with working out the details of early voting. If they refuse to do that, voters should realize they are being asked to hand out a blank check.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 03:12 PM

So Bruce - you know how to cut and paste. Any chance you could include the authors name when you do that?

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 03:28 PM

I know how to read, too...


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/27/AR2007022701463.html

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Wesley S
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 03:32 PM

Thanks. Nothing in your first post indicated that it was from the Washington Post.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Amos
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 04:20 PM

Why is this being made into a serious issue? Even the Post is supporting the basic notion and the consittutional amendment in principle. How many of the Catters to whom this is addressed are from Maryland, the state that must resolve the issue to its own satisfaction?

Is it possible this is a projection based on the nation Republican manipulations of the 2000 and 2004 Federal elections?

Just speculatin', you understand. Guilt does have a way of amplifying such projections.

A

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 04:29 PM

Twice I tried to vote in Maryland on Diebold machines,

First time my vote was invalidated. They listed the Vice President seperately, however if you voted for both President AND Vice President your vote was invalidated...tricky eh?

The second time the machine broke down with a loud beeeep and they unplugged it, which left me having to fill out a worthless and uncounted provisional ballot.

Lets just call these Diebold machines a total loss/totalRep.victory and move on to paper machines that always work and can always be audited.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 06:38 PM

"Lets just call these Diebold machines a total loss/totalRep.victory and move on to paper machines that always work and can always be audited. "


Sorry, the Diebold machines were forced on MD by the DEMOCRATIC state legislature and the DEMOCRATIC local election boards.


The DEMOCRATS are the ones who refused to let the REPUBLICAN governor require a paper trail.


Try to get your facts right, for a change.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 28 Feb 07 - 08:35 PM

"Why is this being made into a serious issue?"


So, YOU think it is ok to only let one side votes count? Hardly seems what you have said in the past...

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: GUEST,wayne monroe
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 05:40 PM

It would be nice to have a two or three party system in Maryland.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 07:48 PM

I don't understand. Is 'early voting' the same thing as 'absentee voting'? If you're going to be out of town on election day, voting absentee is available, easy and essential. In Alaska one can do it beginning three weeks before Election Day.

Donuel, you say "...which left me having to fill out a worthless and uncounted provisional ballot."

Is a 'provisional ballot' the same thing as a ?Questioned Ballot'? A questioned ballot - which does sound like a provisional ballot - certainly DOES get counted- it is far from worthless. Questioned and Absentee votes have on occasion decided an election.

A Questioned Ballot simply means that it will be looked at separately. When you find yourself in state but out of your own district, you vote Questioned. In a Presidential Election, if you are out of your own state on Election Day but you are registered to vote in any state you can vote for President, Vice President and US Senators and Representatives and for Constitutional Amendments and Referendums and Measures but you are NOT allowed to vote for local ballot measures or for local candidates.

Questioned Ballots make a lot of sense to me.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:31 AM

Early voting, at least in MD, is the opening of the polling places weeks before the election, in some areas ( the ones with Democratic majorities) to allow voting over an extended time. Still have NO paper trail ( refused by the DEMOCRATIC state legislature) and allowing for multiple ways to be abused.

Absentee ballots are still available, and have nothing to do with this.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 09:19 AM

ecurbdedraeb

On one level (particularly when expressing myself in 20 words or less) I suppose its true that all my facts are wrong all the time.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 09:35 AM

Your FACTS are ( probably) true- I DO NOT DISPUTE THEM!!!

It is your conclusion/blame of Republicans that I object to.

There ARE problems with the Electronic machines- but it is to the advantage of DEMOCRATS to prevent any correction/improvement to the system, as THEY control how the votes are reported.


But of course, that must be ok, as long as you LIKE the bogus results.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:04 AM

(Don't mind Bruce...his hobby is finding possible examples of Democratic flaws to mitigate similar offenses already documentated in Republicans. [why yes, Teresa Heinz Kerry DOES sometimes open her mouth *grin*)

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:14 AM

Bill,

So it is ok to blame the side you are opposed to for actions that you keep silent/ignore when the side you support does them?


I will have to remember that this is the proper way to debate.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:22 AM

No, Bruce...that is not what I said. Nor is it what I said the other 3-4 times I mentioned the issue.

   What I find amusing is that your reply makes MY point.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:32 AM

"his hobby is finding possible examples of Democratic flaws to mitigate similar offenses already documentated in Republicans"

The example shown was being BLAMED on Republicans, when it was done by Democrats. Do YOU think that is fair?

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:51 AM

I note, however, that you see fit to tar the whole state's democratic party members with the single brush that you build from this incident, BB. You are not only stretching a long bow in the first place, but you are aiming it unfairly, yourself, to boot.


A

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:52 AM

beardedruse

At this point there are more reasons to think that the Republicans benefited from electronic voter fraud more than Democrats.

Is the Democratic party capable of cheating in elections? - always have and probably always will.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:54 AM

And you have chosen to paint all Republicans with ANY action by any one individual- Perhaps you will cease doing so, or is it OK in support of YOUR opinions? Aren't YOUR comments often unfair?

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:01 AM

"At this point there are more reasons to think that the Republicans benefited from electronic voter fraud more than Democrats."



Not in MD. LOOK at the election results here for 2000 and 2004- I can make the case that the 5 counties that
1. Are controlled by Democrats
2. Have the majority of votes
3. ALL went overwhelmingly for Democratic candidates at the national level, though a Republican won as governor in 2000
indicate a possibility that should be looked at. Gee, the Dems won the governorship in 2004- AFTER forcing the use of those "no paper trail" electronic machines you are complaining about.

As I say, it seems that the actions protested here when the Republicans are accused of them are acceptable if the Democrats do them.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:23 AM

And it couldn't be that more Democrats won this time because more people just voted for them?

The point is: ALL voting procedures should be scrutinized and made totally neutral, so that these questions don't arise. No one is arguing that some Democrats are not capable of rigging votes if the opportunity arises.....but recent abuses by REPUBLICANS are not mitigated because you 'suspect' some Democrats!

There is overwhelming evidence that the Florida counts in 2000 were 'manipulated' in several ways, but I don't remember hearing you fretting over that!....I wonder if I should start a thread about "How Florida Repubs work"?

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:27 AM

"There is overwhelming evidence that the Florida counts in 2000 were 'manipulated' in several ways, but I don't remember hearing you fretting over that!...."


Then you did not read my comments at the time- I supported the BUSH call for a recount of the ENTIRE state, not just the Gore request to just recount the counties that he thought he could get more votes from. Remember?

"The point is: ALL voting procedures should be scrutinized and made totally neutral, so that these questions don't arise."

I AGREE. But the repeated claims that since the Republicans have been accused of such, the Democrats should not be looked at when THEY are suspect seems...biased.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:31 AM

My remarks are most often directed art the Administration, Bruce, who happen to be Republicans. My remarks are directed against specific stupidities and at least in my own mind I do not limit them to any politicalparty. I do associate them with certain classes of muddied thinking such as paranoia, one-track reasoning, emotional blinders, and false assumptions, as the case may be.

It is possible I have made sweeping remarks on occasion, in fits if rhetorical pique, and if these have offended you, please accept my apolgies. I am MUCH more concerned with the actions and repute of the nation than I am with what brand one hog or another wears.


A

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:34 AM

The line between industry and goverment does not exist.
The line between DEM and REP does not exist.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:05 PM

...the line is not blurred, it does not exist.

A typical, yet actual, meeting in Washington DC...

On one side of the table sat representatives of the CIA, DIA, NSA and FBI.
On the other side of table sat representatives of Kodak, Coca Cola, and General Electric.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: pdq
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:36 PM

Well bb, look at the good side.

Nancy Pelosi, the most powerful Democrat in the country, is from your home state of Maryland.

It should make you swell with pride just thinking about home town girl's daddy, "Big Tommy" D'Alesandro, the three-term mayor of Baltimore and member of the "bare nuckles politicial hall of fame".

And then there is her brother "Little Tommy" D'Alesandro who also exactly like daddy but younger, another mayor of Baltimore.

Now that's what Democrats call family values.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: beardedbruce
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 01:13 PM

MD has the best politicians money can buy- of BOTH parties.

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 03:42 PM

"... the repeated claims that since the Republicans have been accused of such, the Democrats should not be looked at when THEY are suspect .."

????WHO has been making these "repeated claims"? Not me...

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 03:58 PM

Can you say...

Subject: RE: BS: How MD Dems work...
From: GUEST,Dickey
Date: 03 Mar 07 - 02:24 AM

BB:

Isn't the fact that BGE is being allowed to raise their rate by 72% a rather bad mark on Erlich's record?

My bill was over $550 last month and the full increase wont come until this summer.