BS: How to have a US national health care

Subject: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: mg
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:25 AM

I don't have any great solutions. I think we need it. I fear we will get the worst case scenarios like described in a thread today..long waits, runarounds, overcrowding etc. Like the VA scandals right now. There has to be a better way, starting with the fact that things are working well for some people, OK for some people unless they face something catastrophic, and not at all for many people...

Of the uninsured, some could give up some bad habits like smoking and drinking and coffee and diet coke and convert some of that money to insurance. Some percentage could purchase their own percentage right now..mostly young working people. So there are some choices in this mix of insured people..some could afford a good policy and some could pay on a sliding scale. So I am inclined to have sliding scale to purchase insurance with poor people getting it almost free, but if they are able to work some medical expenses off by say gardening around a hospital, like they do somewhere in Maine..good idea. Also sliding scale co-pay. Some states are going to mandatory insurance. An idea whose time has come.

Tax soft drinks heavily to help pay. Make it a rare treat rather than a major cause of obesity and diabetes.

Realize that diabetes is a process underlying huge numbers of ailments, including cancer and heart disease. Get rid of that and you save tremendous amounts of money in prescription drugs, supplies, hospitalizations, work costs etc. And the information is right out there in plain sight--and it is not a low-fat diet for many. Don't eat more refined and processed carbs than your body can handle, which can be, like in my case by now, almost none at all.   

People I think are way overmedicated. Tons of money could be saved by not giving some people 15 medications..the medical culture is way too willing to overprescribe and under-health maintenace that is free like sunshine, fresh air, mild exercise etc.

We should way upgrade the school nurse program in schools.

Reinstate all sorts of public health nurse programs. Consider public health hospitals.

Subsidize nurses attached to churches.

Have numerous public health clinics staffed by PA-Cs and nurse practitioners and diverting people from the emergency rooms. That is so stupid that people can't figure out to have a half-time nurse to refer people to right on the property for immunizations, sore throats etc. that people are said to flood the er with....

I like Bobert's idea of a $10,000 limit on catastrophic illness.

What I don't want to lose is the ability to chose a doctor or to go to private pay if a person prefers.

So I would leave things at the top as they are for now and work from the bottom up with public health insurance and clinics and many nurses to go to for minor things. Tie in a lot of student aid programs to medical programs and serving in public health.

I also would be somewhat less than benevolent on certain things..extensive fertility procedures resulting in multiple premature births..no way. Go private pay if you must for that. Certain non-essential cosmetic things which I doubt would fly anyway.

I would train mobile teams such as the military has. The worst possible injuries and medical crises that one can imagine have been handled by medics in jungles..and medics are trained in a few months if I recall correctly. Most ailments we have just don't need huge amounts of training to help us out with.

Routine scans and full blood tests (it is as cheap to get the full range of blood tests as just a few according to my doctor..they just don't want to discover unexpected stuff) to discover things earlier.

Really focus on the diabetes prevention, which means that people are going to have to unlearn what they have been brainwashed to believe (including doctors).

Also, why (OH I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM SO KNOCK IT OFF) are food stamp people allowed to spend money on just anything? Have a list of whole foods, meats, dairy, vegetables and fruits..some precooked like beans...but the WIC program has signs over the cheese etc..this is an approved WIC food. SHould be same for food stamps. The program is not helping the farmers directly and it is not helping the recipients nutritionally in many cases. They can eat oats and apples and forget about Kraft dinners and top ramen. Perhaps a small food stamp allotment for treats but not total carte blanche.

Get back to having home economics in schools so they know how to cook for heavens sake and what to feed children.

Gather up every poppy grown in Afghanistan and ask for more and have enough morphine for every possible illness and catastrophe in the world.

Well, that is my health plan. I think we will be seeing something soon. It is my sincerest hope that eveyone has access and also takes responsibility for their own health and that health information put out there is accurate and based on science and common sense and not drug reps. mg

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 12:39 AM

Just one point which is wrong: Also, why (OH I AM NOT BLAMING THE VICTIM SO KNOCK IT OFF) are food stamp people allowed to spend money on just anything? They are NOT allowed. When my brother was on them, he was NOT allowed to buy a health bar but would have been allowed to buy Twinkies (He didn't as he hates them and does not consider them healthy!) The food stamp program, here, is designed to keep people on a lousy diet which in turn contributes to obesity, diabetes, etc.

And, what makes you think young people can afford to buy health insurance? My children would not have any if their employers didn't contribute the bulk of the cost.

If you really want a change, we need to get rid of the insurance companies and the drug companies, esp. the bastards who are paying other drug companies to keep the generics of their best-sellers off the shelves.

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 02:45 AM

I am British, but I Live in Spain, the British health system is in tatters, although i am very greatful to it, it saved my father from bowel cancer when he was 39, it saved my sister from breast cancer when she was 22 and again when she was 25, I had a serious motorcyle accident, i had 27 operations, 19 months in an Ilizarov frame, noen of this cost me a penny, only in my taxes. On the other hand, try getting a Doctors appointment when something not so serious is wrong, Try getting them to get to the root of a problem, all you seem to get is fobbed off, and you know that it would be so different if you were waving a bunch of 50 pound notes in front of them, and telling them they cant have it until they have sorted out the problem. the beauracacy in the N.H.S is ridiculous, it wastes millions of pounds of hard earned taxpayers money every year, this never seems to be curtailed, just more money thrown into it, so that the government of the day can say that they have spent X amount on health, no one minds spending more on health, but not when its just being wasted. its a health service free for all, not a political tool.
Anyway, i also have experience of the U.S health system, i was visiting the U.S a few years ago, when i got a nasty ear infection, i went to the Pharmacy to see if they could help, they said i had to go to the Doctor, so off i went to a medical center down the road, after i had been weighed, blood pressure, urine sample blood sample, tissue type, given a full rundown on my tonsilectomy i had had when i was 5 years old, i was given a prescription for some ear drops and some antibiotics, i was also given a bill for $130. Off i went to the Walmart pharmacy,,,,,$140 for my prescription, i nearly dropped through the floor. My Ear infection cost me $270, i checked with my insurance and guess what,,, i was covered, but with a $100 charge for each part i.e doctor and pharmacy, so i could have filled out a billion forms and got $70 back.
When i first got to Spain, i suffered another ear infection, "its the swimming pools", i went to the pharmacy, she happily sold me the eardrops over the counter and it cost me €3.50, i was better within a few hours....
So my assesment is this, the problem with the British system is that it doesnt embrace the private sector, the problem with the U.S is that it doesnt embrace a public system, the central european systems have healthcare for all, free at the point of use, because both private and public work together, that has to be the way forward, in this world we live in today, in any civilised country, healthcare should be a right, not a privilige. and you should get the same treatment if your homeless on the street or a multi millionaire.

I´ll get off my soap box now

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: Grab
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:33 AM

The British system *does* embrace the private sector - that's what BUPA does, and all the places who do LASIK and cosmetic surgery, and most physios.

If what you have is non-urgent (ie. you're not in much pain and can still work and get around), then you're a low priority. You *will* eventually get seen, but you'll be at the end of the list. So people often stump up the cash and go private to get seen quicker. Hip replacement ops are a classic example.

And some things like physio simply won't get NHS attention. The NHS doesn't care that you can't do the same kind of yoga stuff after you've broken your leg - if you can walk OK, that's it. If you care, then you'll be paying for a private physio.

I think that's a fair compromise. The purpose of a public health service isn't to fix everything that could conceivably be fixed; it's to ensure that everyone has a fair minimum standard of health.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: Blindlemonsteve
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:54 AM

Your right Graham, but private medical care in the states is completely different than in the U.K, for instance, if you go to a private hospital, they have no A&E, I know Bupa etc are available, but not generally to everyone. If "Private Healthcare" was embraced in the U.K, the government wouldnt tax the hell out of you if you get it with your job, which is something i really dont understand. Your not using the N.H.S, so you have to pay more for it. Why not cut down on N.I payments if companies offer theyre employers Private Cover, whilst maintaining N.I payments from the employees to cover public healthcare, dont let the government anywhere near the running of our health system, and run it to a business acumen. Make people accountable for waste. We might start seeing some changes then, and free up some money to start paying Doctors and Nurses proper livable wages. Maybe our doctors and nurses wont dissapear to other countries to make a proper living after we have spent thousands training them.

Just a thought!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:54 AM

I'll revist this thread a little later, mg, as it is an issue that concernes me very much but don't have alot of time this mornin' to delve into it...

But think "single payer" as opposed to the cumbersome Medicare perscription drug plan that the Repubs passed a couple years ago which fattens the wallets of the drug companies and the insurance companies... Not that it doesn't help some seniors, mind you, but it is an ill-thought out system and the "doughnut" hole is going to cause a lot of problems as we get further into it...

Be back later...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:57 AM

lmao

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:22 AM

1. My Type II diabetes might well have been caused, as my brother's was, by AO exposure. This should be taken care of by the VA, but I'm not at all sure it will be.

2. Dentistry? Would basic dental procedures be included (fillings, extractions, root canals, cleanings, dental plates)?

I think that if you're on the state-run programs you'd be eligible for basic services. This would include:

*Contraceptives, including the "morning after pill" -- but not, except in the cases of incest, rape, or danger to the mother's life, abortions.

*A return to hospital wards -- a patient on the public health system would not be eligible (except in the case of highly contagious diseases) to a private or semi-private room. No television, no radio, either. And when you're well enough you can help around the ward with simple tasks. (This is based on the military model.)

*The possibility that you will initially be seen and diagnosed by a Nurse Practicitioner, Physician's Assistant, or Intern and your case reviewed by a Medical Doctor later (who may not ever see you).

*That some surgical and medical procedures would not be covered. These would include, but not be limited to, "sex-change operations," surgery for purely cosmetic reasons (e.g., tummy tucks, buttocks lifts, breast augmentation, liposuction). It would include "stomach stapling" operations, which prevent other problems.

*An active and REQUIRED immunization program for ALL citizens, except those who are allergic to eggs or other growth media.

*Active anti-alcohol, anti-smoking, anti-drug campaigns with legal teeth in them. A ban on serving alcohol or selling tobacco to pregnant women; any drug seller who sells illegal drugs to a pregnant woman would be jailed for a VERY long time.

*Strictly enforced laws against driving while intoxicated by ANYTHING (exception: necessary driving while on the prescribed amounts of prescribed drugs). For a first offense you lose your license for three months, attend classes and AA-type meetings, and are fined $5,000 US. For second offense, loss of driving privileges for three years, six months in jail, $10,000 fine. Third offense, total and permanent loss of driving privileges, three years in jail.

*Maintaining unhealthy housing forfeits the housing to the State, which is required to raze it.

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 01:15 PM

Actually my proposals were for initial stages so as to avoid calamity and chaos in the first few years..fix what is really broken first..and simultaneously insist on decent behavior from people such as not using drugs..drug screen part of every medical visit...and then phase into a more universal plan. mg

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: Dickey
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 08:56 PM

Just charge by the pound and multiply by number of cigarettes consumed.

And maybe another multiplier for how much money they make.

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:14 PM

Well, mg, realisticaly a gradual program is probably not posssible... No, when it happens it will happen... The stars have to be aligned correctly and the "liberal" (progressive, thankl you..) pendulum will have to be at the highest part of it's arch...

But most other developed nations have taken the plunge and are spending less per capita for health care and have lower infant mortality and longer life expectantcies so...

...it will occur if for no other reason than it is better than what we have now...

Oh sure, the righties will scream "socialism" and Boss Hog will run his usual dumbass ads on the television tellin' us jst how wonderful it is to be an American, blah, blah, blah...

But, bottom, line, it will happen because:

1. It's cheaper than what we are doing now...

2. It produces better results...

and 3. It's the right thing to do for our citizens...

Single payer... No middle men... Just get with the rest of the devolped nations who have jumped out in front of us on tis one...

Oh sure, the righties will jump in here with there horror stories but they cannot refute that we're are the ones with the high infant mortality rates and folks diein' a lot earlier so to the righties...

...get over it... It's good for America...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: How to have a US national health care
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Mar 07 - 09:22 PM

I don't have a plan, or very many suggestions, but I know that when upper middle class US people ($58,000/yr) put off medically necessary surgery because of the cost of the co pay, it's ridiculous.

I need carpal tunnel and rotator cuff surgery, but 20% of $40,000 is $8,000 and we don't have it.