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25 Apr 09 - 09:51 AM (#2618465) Subject: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel 10 to 12 years ago my posts were often about germ warfare and bio terrorism. Never got a PM in those days regarding such a nasty subject but there was lots of criticism. The Mexcio city (the most populated city on Earth) outbreak has all the earmarks of an engineered compound virus. However there is no proof at this time. If you thought immigration was a problem this will add a btand new desperate dynamic. the billion dollar 14 foot fence is like having mosquito nets try to keep out smoke. The fatality rate now stands at slightly less than one in ten which is very high. For the Conquistadors, germs killed far more indiginous people than guns. What guns germs and steel have done to the new world is nothing short of the greatest genocide the world has seen. The worst case scenario for an engineered virus is one billion people. As more is learned about this outbreak new questions will arise as to its origin. WHO and CDC are in full crisis mode yet released a message "If you have travel plans to go to Mexico do not alter your travel plans. It made me think the single word 'go' might have been accidently left out. |
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25 Apr 09 - 10:27 AM (#2618480) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee Genetically it's an H1N1 virus, different from the H1N5 of "Bird Flu." |
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25 Apr 09 - 10:47 AM (#2618486) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Mrrzy Paranoia, anyone? |
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25 Apr 09 - 10:54 AM (#2618493) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee Concern, yes. Paranoia, no. |
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25 Apr 09 - 11:17 AM (#2618504) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: GUEST,heric Jumping to conclusions, though. It hasn't yet been established that this is actually a new strain (as opposed to newly identified), or that existing antivirals are ineffective against it. |
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25 Apr 09 - 11:40 AM (#2618513) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: SINSULL Donuel, since the early 50s scientists have been warning that farming conditions in poor countries especially China were laying the world open to strains of flu that could be fatal. They especially warned against allowing pigs and poultry to mix. Pigs eat shit. Even bird shit. Do a search on this. I remember reading an article on this in the early 70s. Reason for concern? Absolutely. Genetically engineered in a lab? No. Genetically engineered in a pig sty? Very likely. |
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25 Apr 09 - 11:57 AM (#2618521) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: bobad The unusual influenza A H1N1 swine virus was first reported earlier this week, when the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced it had found cases with the virus. Mexico sent samples of its influenza virus to be tested at the CDC and the National Microbiology Laboratory in Winnipeg. Both labs found positives of swine flu. Testing indicates the virus shows sensitivity to Tamiflu and Relenza, the two anti-viral drugs that Canada has stockpiled. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20090425.ILLNESS25ART2116/TPStory/National |
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25 Apr 09 - 12:06 PM (#2618527) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: bobad Dr. Frank Plummer, scientific director of the lab, said scientists discovered the illness is caused by an H1N1 human swine virus -- a brand-new virus against which no existing vaccine will likely protect. The Mexican virus is similar to the viruses responsible for recent cases that have cropped up in California and Texas, suggesting the disease can spread from person to person. Canada has stockpiled millions of doses of antiviral drugs Relenza and Tamiflu to guard against pandemic flu, but Plummer doubts these drugs will offer much defence against the new strain of human swine flu. Plummer said the virus is a mix of North American swine flu and a swine flu that originated in Thailand, and scientists have no idea where it came from, when it surfaced, or how. "The viruses are so different we think it's unlikely (existing vaccines) would provide much protection. So if we need a vaccine, which we probably do, we'll have to make one," Plummer said, noting it would take at least six months to make a new vaccine. http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/city-lab-confirms-swine-flu-virus-43687807.html |
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25 Apr 09 - 12:14 PM (#2618531) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) Pigs and poultry have been the most common animals raised for millenia. Both can forage on their own. The Polynesians brought poultry to Hawai'i; pigs came later, introduced by Captain Cook. Both are now feral as well as domestic, the pigs a problem especially on the Big Island, and the chickens live free in several areas. My point here is that both can get along without being provided with large volumes of feed and thus are preferred livestock by poorer peoples. As SINSULL says, in populous countries like China and others in Asia and some in Latin America where both poultry and pigs are often confined close to humans and essentially living with them, the waste of the three intermix;, there is ample opportunity for evolution viruses. No need to invoke the existence of sinister labs. |
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25 Apr 09 - 12:23 PM (#2618534) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee CDC link. WHO EPR. Health Canada. Doesn't seem to even be on the radar at the UK's Department of Health. |
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25 Apr 09 - 12:37 PM (#2618540) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: GUEST,heric Thanks Rapaire the links at the bottom of the CDC page are great, e.g. "We know so far that the viruses contain genetic pieces from four different virus sources. This is unusual. The first is our North American swine influenza viruses. North American avian influenza viruses, human influenza viruses and swine influenza viruses found in Asia and Europe. "That particular genetic combination of swine influenza virus segments has not been recognized before in the U.S. or elsewhere. Of course, we are doing more testing now and looking more aggressively for unusual influenza strains. So we haven't seen this strain before but we haven't been looking as intensively as we are these days. "The viruses are resistant to amantadine and rimantadine anti-viral drugs but they are sensitive or susceptible to oseltamivir and zanamivir, the newer anti-viral drugs for flu. And at this time we don't know exactly how people got the virus." Death rate for all lab-confirmed cases is zero so far. |
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25 Apr 09 - 01:50 PM (#2618584) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) The CDC reports are informative. Thanks for the link. |
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25 Apr 09 - 02:28 PM (#2618615) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Alice Texas family quarantined... swine flu |
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25 Apr 09 - 03:54 PM (#2618660) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Mrrzy I guess my question is, why engineer something so treatable? |
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25 Apr 09 - 05:03 PM (#2618709) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Alice flu can be deadly, mrrzy |
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25 Apr 09 - 05:15 PM (#2618713) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: pdq Here is the CDC site description of the... 1918 Influenza: the Mother of All Pandemics |
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25 Apr 09 - 05:37 PM (#2618723) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel This flu is a compound flu of 4 strains. 1 Bird flu 2 Swine Flu 3 Rare Asia swine flu 4 human to human varient It is not entirely uncommon for mutant strains to express multiple traces of other strains. If you were to engineer a flu intentionally it would have this kind of multiple signiture. To call this a terrorist attack would be irrespondsible and Cheneyesquely evil. Conclusion: It is too soon to say if this is a lab created variety. death rates have been all over the place from 20 to over 100 but right now the number being reported is 67 in Mexico. 20 days of public event cancellations have been announced in Mexico City. The CDC has pronounced the outbreak in this country to be a level 3 out of 6. All cases seem less severe than the those in Mexico. IT is reponsive to Tamiflu and Resnovere San Diego 8 reported cases Kansas 2 reported cases NYC dozens of reported cases Texas 4 reported cases The coming school closures will be done as an abundence of caution measure until we know more. Dr. Hartl of Geneva Switzerland and an official of the World Health Organization has called this outbreak to be only potentially a worldwide pandemic. |
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25 Apr 09 - 05:54 PM (#2618732) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Anti viral medicines did not exist in 1918. Even today they are not a certain remedy. Tamiflu has been known to be hazardous to CHILDREN by causing hallucinations and behaviors that will inflict self harm. If one wished to prosper from these events you could buy tamilfu company stock, buy OTC remedy stock, short sell pork bellies and buy futures on pork products to go down (even though eating pork will not give you the flu) If you are writing a Tom Clancy action adventure novel you could write about how after the outbreak in Mexico, vaccinated sleeper cells in America will start on Monday handing out face masks in the Subways and street corners that have a nasty nultiple strain of flu. Be well, do good work and keep in touch. |
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25 Apr 09 - 09:56 PM (#2618799) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Riginslinger It does seem peculiar that the medical community has been warning against bird flu, but it seems to be swine flu that has developed. And while it would make a great plot for a novel, Donuel, it seems more like a John LaCarre sort of thing than Tom Clancy. |
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25 Apr 09 - 09:56 PM (#2618800) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) Canada's National Microbiology Laboratory reports that the virus is new; "about 80% of the virus is highly related to a North American body of swine flu that has been around for a number of years, but about 20% comes from an Eurasian variety of swine flu first seen in Thailand, so its recombined to create something totally new. How it did that, where it did it, when it did it, I don't think we know yet." http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/04/24/health-flu-mexico090424.html Work at the U. S. CDC further elucidates that the N. Am. material is a combination of swine flu, avian influenza virus and human influenza virus. Speaking today, a spokesman from the CDC said it is too early to tell if it originated in the U. S. or Mexico. [? It could have spread in the Mexico City area because of the close concentration of people. The Thailand element also adds to the question of its origin.] Travelers are probably spreading the virus. The WHO has stated that it is now a human virus. WHO also confirms that the virus has not affected the very old or the very young, this is unusual and causes concern. Putting the outbreak in perspective, 4000 people die of flu virus each year in Canada alone; Canada's population is not much more than that of the Federal District of Mexico (Mexico City and immediate environs). |
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26 Apr 09 - 04:48 AM (#2618903) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: GUEST,someone else When you look at what has come into the UK over the past few years it is surprising there isn't more viruses or death. |
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26 Apr 09 - 05:19 AM (#2618911) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: nutty Strange viruses have always been around but this century's global movement means that they are quickly spread to areas where the population has no immunity to them. This has happened from the early days of exploration and was shown in the flu pandemic after the First World War (when troops returning from Europe spread the virus in the USA, resulting in more deaths that had happened during the fighting) Scientist may be able to develop a vaccine for this one but it will keep on happening as they can only act retrospectively, |
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26 Apr 09 - 02:31 PM (#2619138) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rasener Has this got any link to the MRSA Pig Virus being experienced by Pig farmers especially in Holland? |
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27 Apr 09 - 07:34 AM (#2619460) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: VirginiaTam Today on BEEB Radio 4 2 cases believed in UK now - a couple with flu like symptoms just returend from Mexico. Only enough Tamiflu to treat half the UK population. US declared state of emergency - but this is so "officially" the processes can be put in place to deal with a pandemic should it occur. Does it matter that I missed my Flu vaccine this year due to being too ill to have it? shrugs |
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27 Apr 09 - 07:52 AM (#2619473) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Mrrzy BBC now saying first case in Europe is in Spain. |
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27 Apr 09 - 08:28 AM (#2619505) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee This year's flu vaccine wasn't for AH1N1, so don't worry about it. You may have some immunity left from earlier AH1N1 outbreaks, such as the one in 1968 (and there have been later ones). Eating cooked pork products doesn't spread it. |
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27 Apr 09 - 10:00 AM (#2619566) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Drudge Report Headlines "Act of GOD" swine flu... Drudge assuming that this strain of a combination of 4 flu markers is an act of God is just as speculative and inflammatory as asumming that it is man made, at this time. Years ago their were rumors of attempts to bio engineer race specific diseases. Then over 25 micro biologists were said to have all died of suspicious circumstances in the course of one year. Reshaping the world population by deliberate financial means and culling the herd biologically is not just the stuff of John LaCarre, it has been discussed in certain circles for decades. This is one case in which I personally do not want to believe the engineered scenario which by definition would make me deliberately closed minded. |
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27 Apr 09 - 10:14 AM (#2619572) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 Maybe God has finally realized what a mistake it was to create man ... so he fnally devised a good way to cull the herd somewhat. His attempt back in the days of the plague didn't quite work so well ... kinda like the stuff found in the old testament. or maybe ... just maybe ... ah forget it. biLL |
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27 Apr 09 - 10:40 AM (#2619588) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel It may help you to know that Donald Rumsfeld holds all the rights for distribution of Tamiflu in North America. Rumsfeld CEO and stockholder in Tamiflu I suggest you google 'Donald Rumsfeld distribution rights to tamiflu' Again I repeat that a triple recombinate strain is unusual but still in keeping with a natural mutation. |
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27 Apr 09 - 10:45 AM (#2619595) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 Oh cheerup a bit Donuel. Things aren't that bleak .... hell, I'm buying up stocks in Roche Holdings, gonna make a killing of a profit out of this ... but I am a bit peeved that I now can't substitute cheaper pork in my steak tartar and will now have to use higher priced beef. biLL |
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27 Apr 09 - 11:33 AM (#2619640) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel It sure seems dark to profit from global anxiety biLL ;>/ but whatcha gonna do Yep one sure could make some interesting commodity bets today. Consider sporting event attendence. I'm cheerie enough but the thought of Rumsfeld making another 500 million irks me. factors to consider... Russia will not accept any US pork now EU says do not travel to America America says do not travel to EU And everyone says not to go to Mexico. Some Mexican offials are now trying to censure doctors from commenting to media. China's market is down and the DOW is slightly up Even New Zealand is claiming a swine flu patient. ************************************* Incubation of this swine flu is 3 days. While this flu is a H5N1 there is no comparison to the 1917 avian pandemic. A pandemic will normally have a 3 month peak and a 6 month peak (bi modal) ***************************************** T shirt suggestion: "I went to Mexico City and all I got was this lousy T shirt." |
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27 Apr 09 - 11:52 AM (#2619650) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 India and Malaysia have issued travel adviseries to Canada. Hmmmm ... my wife has a work associate from India who should arrive today ... but who knows now. That t_shirt statement ... how about "I went to Mexico City and all I got was this lousy surgical mask" ... now, who makes these, Johnson $ Johnson?? Rumsfield is an miserable old ass ... he's probably spending his golden years getting rusty and crusty and more miserable even with the $money$ he'll make out of this. biLL |
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27 Apr 09 - 12:01 PM (#2619659) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Maybe he needed money for his legal defense fund. |
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27 Apr 09 - 12:03 PM (#2619660) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel North of the border all cases of swine flu continue to be mild. (non lethal) |
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27 Apr 09 - 12:12 PM (#2619669) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 I also wonder if the unfortunate 100 fatalities in Mexico city are from the poverty infested neighbourhoods .... hell, these people are so malnourished from a slum diet of who knows what that even a common cold can kill them. But ... Obama says there is nothing to really worry about .. no need for alarm. Ah yes ... buying a few solid blocks of Johnson $ Johnson stocks and now I'll just sit back and make some money ... one has to make a profit from these hard times ya know. biLL |
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27 Apr 09 - 12:26 PM (#2619682) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Pure speculation would more likly lead me to think that the US immunization program might have created better partial immunity populations than Mexico. Also a hot climate Plus fever may be more hazardous. (racially targeted disease engineering is something that got some attention 6 years ago but is unproven) |
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27 Apr 09 - 12:34 PM (#2619694) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 Or ... as in the movie The Constant Gardner ... a disposable population for pharmaceutical research and development. biLL |
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27 Apr 09 - 12:51 PM (#2619715) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Everyone knows that there are un needed populations for the elite economic leaders. Everyone knows that the economic policy is specificly designed to eliminate the poor. If you want to know more, the HBO show "The Wire" demonstrates how goverment/oligarchies merely juke the statistics on one hand while with the other they give the black neighborhoods the illegal drug sale economy which increases black on black murder. The war on drugs is also shown truthfully in the movie American Violet I also noticed how New Orleans meant nothing to George Bush. As he looked out of his jet window he said "Boy, I bet its twice as bad on the ground!" |
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27 Apr 09 - 01:09 PM (#2619730) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Ebbie Donuel, please note that your link is four years old and even at that time, Donald Rumsfeld was the former CEO of the corporation and that it was Gilead Sciences that was the sole patent owner of Tamiflu, not Rumsfeld himself. ( I never know whether you like pot stirring or if you actually believe everyt;hing you write.) From the link: "Rumsfeld — as a stock holder and former CEO of Gilead Sciences Inc., the sole patent owner of Tamiflu, the antiviral drug now being stockpiled by the Defense Department and other agencies — stands to make millions of dollars if legislation is passed that allocates additional federal money to stockpile the anti-viral medications." "I also noticed how New Orleans meant nothing to George Bush. As he looked out of his jet window he said "Boy, I bet its twice as bad on the ground!" As you know, I'm not a dubya Bush fan but that is not precisely what Bush said, as you also know. I think that in all likelihood that was one of those occasions when Bush, given his speech-mangling proclivities, misspoke. He is not the most articulate of men at the best of times and in the emotion of the times coherent speech may have failed him utterly. Like my mother once reported: "And the cannons went BING! |
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27 Apr 09 - 01:22 PM (#2619741) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 Now who in the hell is responsible for the 6.0 magnitude earthquake that just hit mexico. whew ! biLL |
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27 Apr 09 - 01:23 PM (#2619742) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee It's also a Type A, H1N1, not an H5N1. |
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27 Apr 09 - 02:13 PM (#2619785) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Mt. Spaw must have erupted. See...porkbellies are down 18% Go ahead and google Rumsfeld and his current distrubution rights for Tamiflu. Bottom line is that his shares alone will be earning him another fortune. |
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27 Apr 09 - 02:34 PM (#2619801) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 'Mt. Spaw" .. good one Donuel. I'm glad I got my money out of porkbellies ... whew ! biLL |
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27 Apr 09 - 02:37 PM (#2619803) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) As a prime holder of stock in a company making body bags, I have been disappointed by the mildness of cases outside of Mexico City and environs. There was hope for a reduction in excess world population. Maybe the next mutation will do a better job. |
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27 Apr 09 - 04:36 PM (#2619905) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel H1N1 weaponized flu strain H1N1 it is Rapaire. |
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27 Apr 09 - 05:02 PM (#2619924) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: CarolC I think I might just now be recovering from the swine flue myself. If so, my case was relatively mild. We have enough people around here who travel back and forth to Mexico to make it a likely place for an outbreak. It's going to be really hard for them to control the spread of it with so many people not having access to health care. If someone (like me) gets sick, but not sick enough require hospitalization, we could have it and nobody would ever know. |
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27 Apr 09 - 05:09 PM (#2619930) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee ...This flu, never before seen by scientists,... Oh, bull. The 1918 "Spanish" Influenza was type A, H1N1. This has been proven by the CDC, Stanford, and other labs. In stark contrast to contemporary human influenza H1N1 viruses, the 1918 pandemic virus had the ability to replicate in the absence of trypsin, caused death in mice and embryonated chicken eggs, and displayed a high-growth phenotype in human bronchial epithelial cells. Moreover, the coordinated expression of the 1918 virus genes most certainly confers the unique high-virulence phenotype observed with this pandemic virus. --Association for the Advancement of Science, 10/2006, Abstract on the article on replicating the 1918 virus. |
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27 Apr 09 - 05:58 PM (#2619972) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 "Must be because I had the flu for Christmas And I'm not feeling up to par It increases my paranoia Like looking in my mirror and seeing a police car But I'm not giving in an inch to fear çause I've promised myself this year I feel like I owe it, to someone" excerpt from "I almost Cut my Hair" by David Crosby Well anyway my wife's business associate arrived from India, he didn't take his country's advice to stay away from Canada. I guess we'll know it's serious when they start shuttin' down airports. biLL |
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27 Apr 09 - 06:07 PM (#2619980) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Rapaire I too wish to guard against misinformation but this combinant strain of swine flu is not the 1917 variety period. THis flu has 4 distinct markers. Contrary to a rumor it is not respondsive to Tamiflu and (Reseveer the other one) IT IS RESPONDSIVE despite the fact that one segment of the viral RNA was known to be resistant. *If you are saying this is the Spanish flu, it is not. But I may have misunderstood your comment.* What is not true is that the EU has declared that travel to the US is not reccomended, it was just loose talk by one official. Also while it is swinish to put a partisan spin on a pandemic I do float certain possibilities and speculative scenarios which will probably be discussed in the future by all sorts of groups. It does not mean that this is an intentional act but that the question remains unanswered. The political cost to Obama will be a wash. Since Daschel's limo tax scandal the HHS position is in the temporary hands of two people, one of which is a very respondsible woman and the other is a Bush appointee. The CDC also needs a permanent chief. |
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27 Apr 09 - 06:41 PM (#2620001) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Carol it is entirely possible that the flu has been going around for a couple weeks and the media only started coverage this Saturday. We're all glad you're feeling better. Well maybe not Doug R but thats a different story. Not having a head of the CDC and HHS really only makes it hard for beaurocrats to know whose ass to kiss or kick and who to cover their ass' from. It is a confusing world for goverment clerks who are trained to take little self initiative unless told to do so. Right now they are trying to follow rules they are not sure if they are from a source that is looking for answers or questions, excuses or explanations etc from etc. Looking back I bet this outbreak will be larger than the last one but not as big as feared. 1968 was the last swine flu pandemic and I don't remember it. Correction, I do remember the diarrhea. |
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27 Apr 09 - 07:28 PM (#2620034) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) H1N1 is a subtype of Influenza A virus, not a unique entity. H and N indicate surface proteins hemagglutinin 1 and neuraminidase 1, respectively. H1N1 is the subtype to which the viruses of Spanish Flu and Swine Flu belong, but there are many members of this subtype; they are not the same. The specific virus causing the present outbreak is unique and new; it differs from others of the same subtype, some of which are virulent and some of which do not cause any serious problems in humans. Several articles on this may be found through google. |
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27 Apr 09 - 09:29 PM (#2620110) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Riginslinger Q - What kind of flu was the 1918 virus? I've seen it called "Spanish Flu," but is it linked to current strands? Does the current type trace back to it? |
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27 Apr 09 - 09:42 PM (#2620116) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee Search for "Spanish Influenza" and you'll find several articles and reports on the reconstituted genome. Yes, it is in the same "family". No, it most assuredly is NOT the 1918 flu. (Donuel, I never said it was. I just object to people saying "never seen before" when referring to a fairly common Type A, H1N1, virus. There ARE new things inside in the arrangement of amino acids -- but to say that an AH1N1 virus has "never been seen before" is like saying that a "red book" has never been seen before.) |
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27 Apr 09 - 09:45 PM (#2620119) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel French Troops encountered infected geese. English troops then caught it and it spread in hospitals and returning troop ships like wild fire. It was an Avian h1n1 of which many strains can occur. |
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27 Apr 09 - 10:04 PM (#2620131) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee 1997: Hong Kong: H5N1 (Avian) 2003: Hong Kong: H5N1 2003: Netherlands: H7N7 (Avian, also infected pigs) 1968: Hong Kong Flu: H3N2 (unknown) 1957: Asian Flue: H2N2 (unknown, probably swine) 1918: Spanish Flu: H1N1 (pigs) "Epidemiological evidence suggests that a new influenza virus originated in Haskell County, Kansas, early in 1918. Evidence further suggests that this virus traveled east across the state to a huge army base [Camp Funston, part of Fort Riley], and from there to Europe. Later it began its sweep through North America, through Europe, through South America, through Asia and Africa...The evidence comes from Dr. Loring Miner." All taken from John M. Barry, The Great Influenza (Penguin Books: 2004, 2005), p.92 et al. |
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27 Apr 09 - 10:08 PM (#2620136) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Maybe the old testament had a good idea about keeping kosher |
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27 Apr 09 - 10:35 PM (#2620146) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Ebbie So, I googled Rumsfeld and the charges against him and visited many URLs. (In the process I learned where a certain Mudcatter gets a lot of his information! A lot of bloggers out there.) Not surprisingly, given Rumsfeld's tenure as the CEO of the company that discovered the drug, it is true that he owns a lot of Tamiflu stock but no evidence - AT ALL - that he has any kind of control or input as to the distribution of said product. He hasn't worked for them since 2001. It isn't illegal or even suggestive of any wrongdoing to own stock. |
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27 Apr 09 - 11:00 PM (#2620154) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) Fiction- Swine flu from pork. |
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27 Apr 09 - 11:34 PM (#2620171) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel The Center of Disease Control, has now gone to level 4 pandemic precautions The Center of What Some Guy Said, has gone to level 9 where rabid dragons are now laying eggs in the hearts of haples victims in Arizona and New Mexico. Some guy said everyone in Texas is now dead. Ebbie if you can point out to me where some guy said Donald Rumsfeld planned the outbreak for profit fine. The Federal Goverment has distribution rights for a certain amount of medicine if it becomes needed. No there isn't enough tamiflu for everyone but not everyone ever gets the flu. There should be no killer dragon Titanic scenarios in our future. For me Donald Rumsfeld is equivalent to a Nazi war criminal. Not a full fledged Georing but on the level of an assitant to Muller. I do not like to see war criminals make a friggin fortune off disease. |
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28 Apr 09 - 12:46 AM (#2620194) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Ebbie "I do not like to see war criminals make a friggin fortune off disease. " Good god. How do you plan to keep it from happening? There are a lot of them out there- and some of them a good deal worse than Rumsfeld. As for me, I hope to save my energies for something I can do something about. |
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28 Apr 09 - 04:28 AM (#2620258) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: JohnInKansas The only possibly helpful comments I can offer here are: 1. The old standby re flu - keep your hands clean. 2. The "newly found" report that flu spreads best in very dry conditions. A remarkable, if somewhat puzzling, part of this report is that only the absolute humidity seems to have an effect, so high relative humidity is not required. So the old advice to "wash frequently" gets the associated advice to "sweat profusely." Anyone want to pass the chile peppers? I'm too old to work up a sweat the old-fashioned way. John |
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28 Apr 09 - 09:04 AM (#2620401) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Little Robyn OK, so it's now officially here in NZ - a group of school kids who have just returned from a trip to Mexico have been positively diagnosed. ARGHHHH! Beam me up Scotty! Robyn |
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28 Apr 09 - 09:25 AM (#2620424) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee 1. Wash your hands thoroughly after touching anything. 2. Don't touch your nose, mouth, eyes, the nose or mouth or eyes of others, your private parts or the private parts of others. If you absolutely must touch any of these get someone else to do it. 3. Where a face mask at all times: at home, at work, at the store, in the bank. 4. Never breathe air that may have been exhaled by a flu victim, no matter how distant. Follow these simple rules and you might not get sick. |
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28 Apr 09 - 09:37 AM (#2620434) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 Thanks for the advice Rap !! I'll definately follow these through and through. Hey Ebbie ... I'm beginning to think that maybe you have the hots for old rusty Rummy ;) biLL |
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28 Apr 09 - 10:48 AM (#2620486) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Ebbie And I'm beginning to think that men - real men, mind - don't have brains. |
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28 Apr 09 - 10:52 AM (#2620487) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 goof one ebbie ... LOL ! |
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28 Apr 09 - 11:17 AM (#2620494) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Ebbie :) |
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28 Apr 09 - 11:54 AM (#2620530) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: robomatic Hakman I planned to roast you roundly for the rather obscene profit you intend to make off the argument that the disease was arranged or planned by the likes of the Donald. Then I left on the AM band of my big radio last night and heard Alex Jones making the same argument, so I know where you got it from. Meanwhile the 9/11 bombing has yet to be firmly resolved: 9_11 conspiracy debate |
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28 Apr 09 - 12:00 PM (#2620532) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 interesting article here in the CBC swine flu ground zero ?? whether this is, or not ground zero something has to be said about these corporate hog (or even beef, chicken) farms. They are one of the reasons I'm a vegetarian. biLL |
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28 Apr 09 - 01:02 PM (#2620569) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Wolfgang Israel's deputy minister for Public Health, Jakow Litzman, an orthodox Jew, has said that the name Swine flu is an insult and affront both to Muslims and Jews since in their religions the swine is considered impure. "We shall call it Mexican flu" he said. My god (figure of speech), some of the religionists are really extremely easily insulted. The PC word is now New flu, I have read. Wolfgang |
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28 Apr 09 - 01:38 PM (#2620587) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Riginslinger One has to wonder why he would think a strain of the flu would need to be "pure." |
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28 Apr 09 - 01:38 PM (#2620588) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Wolfgang I have read a bit about the history of the Spanish Flu that killed up to 50,000,000 people from 1918 to 1920, three times more than had died in the 4 years of the Great War. The end of the war contributed to the outbreak of the flu. For instance, there was no Spanish flu in New Zealand before the troops came back. And also the paranoia that is evident in the first post is nothing new. In 1918, you may easily guess who was blamed for the outbreak of the flu among Allied soldiers, Germany and biological warfare, of course. In fact, we now know that the flu had come over with the US soldiers arriving in the Europe theater in 1917. Now and then the human wish that someone has to be blamed for starting the flu with an ill purpose is overwhelming to some. Why was the Spanish flu called "Spanish" then when it neither originated in Spain nor its first European outbreak was there. That also has to do with the war. The outbreak of a flu killing soldiers quicker than enemy guns did was a great worry to the generals. I have read facsimiles from German generals ordering that this cause of death should under no condition be giving when informing the next of kin. Inflating thereby BTW the number of war dead. Similarly, at home, all news about the flu were censored for the reason to keep the power and will to fight alive. Spain was the largest European nations then that did not take part in the war. It then was the only large European nation without military censorship. So when the flu arrived in Spain some months later, the Spanish could read about the flu. So, so the first European flu victims were soldiers, most likely in France, the first reports about the flu came from Spain. Wolfgang |
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28 Apr 09 - 02:02 PM (#2620599) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: robomatic Wolfgang, good to read from you, I was just thinking this morning I hadn't noticed you in any posts of late. I heard the same tale of "Spanish Influenza" this morning on (US) National Public Radio. A couple of years ago I read "The Great Influenza" by Barry which indicated that the origin of the great flu was, uncharacteristically, The United States. In the book "The Making of the Atomic Bomb" by Rhodes the tale is told of Leo Szilard being prepared to be thrown into one of the last stages of WWI only he took ill with The Flu, and not trusting army doctors and having the personal means, he got himself to a civilian hospital. The rest of his mates were sent to the front and none came back. Fourteen years later he was to conceive the idea of a nuclear chain reaction. There is plenty of paranoia about the current flu being 'manufactured'. Ultimately I think this can be disproved, (or proved), but in the meantime the internet and various shady motivations can spread fear and rumor well ahead of facts. Plus it is cheap entertainment. |
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28 Apr 09 - 03:33 PM (#2620658) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) So far, the strain of the virus that has traveled outside of Mexico is mild. We may be lucky; a serious mutation may not occur. The present guess is that the virus developed in the vicinity of Vera Cruz. Why Mexican deaths? Probably be some months before this becomes known. Are they confined to certain groups? Did the strain evolve and lose virulence? Wait and see. |
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28 Apr 09 - 03:43 PM (#2620663) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Rapparee California Health people are saying that there MIGHT be two deaths there. They're testing to find out. |
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28 Apr 09 - 04:30 PM (#2620701) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: SINSULL And the source of the infection seems to be a small down in Mexico downwind from a Smithfield Ham plant - the same company that lost its battle against its employees who wanted to investigate unionizing and paid hefty fines for hiring and abusing illegal aliens and paid hefty fines for dumping pig shit into Virginia rivers. Nice corporate philosophy... |
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28 Apr 09 - 04:55 PM (#2620723) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler The virus seems to be deadlier in Mexico. Do the people who carry the infection out of Mexico mainly travel by air? I'm thinking is there something in the conditions on board a plane that affect the virus and make it less dangerous, humidity levels, lower air pressure in flight etc. Just wondering based on the reports in the news. |
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28 Apr 09 - 05:19 PM (#2620739) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 "And the source of the infection seems to be a small down in Mexico downwind from a Smithfield Ham plant " for info regarding this see my post above (Date: 28 Apr 09 - 12:00 PM ) with a CBC link. biLL |
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28 Apr 09 - 05:22 PM (#2620741) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel INSIDE INFO A+ reliable The NIH has a lab that already has a type A swine flu vaccine. It is not yet incubated for mass innoculations nor has it been trial tested for the normal 2 years. What is interesting is that they may plan to waive the trial period and hope for the best. This is good news because 3 months from now there will be an rising spike in the number of cases as suggested by computer modeling. The vaccine, if safe*, will help the people who have not contrated the flu. +++++++++++++ My experiences with Swine Flu were both scary and unpleasant. The first one gave me such stomach distress that it ranks as the worst in my life. The second time was in the Ford administration when I took the tainted vaccine* and got a very minor case of Petite Barr syndrome that caused a very brief paralysis...but I didn't get the flu either. for robo the self appointed editor of select out of context sentences .______________________________________ The only place I heard about Don Rumsfeld being linked to Tamiflu was on the Diane Reems Show npr American University Radio Then I googled the first result. I know Alex Jones and suspect he uses stimulants that are not good for him but as I mentioned in the initial post that if one brings up the subject of deliberate bio terrorism they leave themselves open to intense criticism. All I know for sure is that billions of dollars have gone into bio weapon technologies and many people have already died from the fruit of their labor. |
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28 Apr 09 - 05:27 PM (#2620742) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel There is a great documentary from PBS that traces the origin of the 1917 flu from the perspective of key individuals shose graves in England and France were part of clues that helped unravel the mystery of that great pandemic. |
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28 Apr 09 - 05:41 PM (#2620756) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel bILL Surprisingly shutting airports does next to nothing to slow the spread of flu as shown by advanced computer modeling. Using Tamiflu does slow the spread of pandemic flu so that it would take 6 months or more for it to spread compared to the same spread in 3 months without antivirals. My experience with Tamiflu was great. Everyone in my family got the flu expect me. They already had the flu so Tamiflu was less effective on them. |
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28 Apr 09 - 05:56 PM (#2620770) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: pdq For those who like a good conspiracy theory, Alex Jones
Personal attack deleted |
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28 Apr 09 - 06:10 PM (#2620775) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) Alex Jones- what garbage! |
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28 Apr 09 - 06:16 PM (#2620779) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: pdq Alex Jones is to journalism what Jim Jones was to Christianity. |
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28 Apr 09 - 06:30 PM (#2620783) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Stop the persoanl attacks and robo nonsense! My wife and our friends work for the Federal Health Research Center (name changed to prevent defamation by ass holes here) I can and will withhold pertaintent info if that is your purpose. |
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28 Apr 09 - 07:33 PM (#2620809) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) There is no evidence that the Smithfield operation near La Gloria is the epicenter of the flu outbreak; no believable source makes that claim. The Center for Disease Control is working to discover the place of origin,, along with other official agencies. |
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28 Apr 09 - 07:43 PM (#2620818) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Riginslinger "Alex Jones is to journalism what Jim Jones was to Christianity." Jim Jones was exactly what Christianity is! |
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28 Apr 09 - 08:49 PM (#2620847) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel John Stewart showed the CNN graphic of Canada painted bright red to signify 6 cases of flu. John S "I don't think shading 4 million sq. miles bright red is truely representative of 6 cases of flu, what would a Herpes outbreak look like , Blood spurting out of the wall and lava consuming the cameraman?" (expurgated G version) KORRECTION tHERE IS NO TRUTH TO THE RUMOR STARTED BY (WITH HELD) That the developing story on Riverside Drive is the result of a Giant man eating Chicken Heart OUTSIDE YOUR DOOR! ______________________________________________ Pending defamation legal action by robo Esquire I attest to the following: I did not intend to impune any misdeeds to, or besmearch the reputation of the great patriotic American Donald Rumsfeld and in no way meant to suggest that any connection between his investment and employment as CEO at Scheer Pharm, the manufacturer of Tamiflu, and the natural outbreak of swine flu in North America which was actually caused by an unkosher Turkey BLT sandwhich outside Mexico City. The stature of such a great and loving American Donald Rumsfeld is an important and wonderful example to humanity worldwide and especially to Robo who withholds his name yet splashes other people's real name with impunity, hostility and disregard. Korrection: ...and especially to Robo who has won 6 Purlitzer prizes for his outstanding secret Journalism. Correction 6 Wurlitzer prizes for his outstanding leaflets. Ebbie has settled out of court court for an undisclosed ______. |
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28 Apr 09 - 09:32 PM (#2620881) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel The Troll food below was gleaned from "How to behave on an Internet Forum" Note to Michelle Bachman and Sarah Palin: No your dog will not get Swine flu. |
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28 Apr 09 - 09:36 PM (#2620882) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel With modern cable news networks there is no more need for these 1976 Swine flu proganda commercials |
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28 Apr 09 - 09:38 PM (#2620883) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel fun with face masks in Mexico City |
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29 Apr 09 - 09:34 AM (#2621171) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Regretably a 20 month old child who died of flu in Texas, however the child was brought here from Mexico for treatment. The mystery of seemingly more severe cases are exclusively from Mexico persists. |
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29 Apr 09 - 01:29 PM (#2621334) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: robomatic hakman- keep up the good work! |
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29 Apr 09 - 04:41 PM (#2621456) Subject: WHO CDC NIH announcments From: Donuel The World Health Organization has just announced that the pandemic warning is now raised to level 5. Key points Level 5 means that all countries should now employ all their pandemic procedures. As a brand new flu varient no one has immunity It is still being investigated why affluent countries only have mild cases at this time and poor countries are experiencing severe disease. The mild cases are no different from the normal seasonal flu which still infect millions and end the lives of nearly 32,000 people in the US alone. IT is common for the flu virus to mutate as it propogates globaly. Negotiations with manufactures of antivirals are ongoing to make more medicine. ................... Admin if in your opinion a new thread is needed for new ongoing flu facts without the potentially valuable speculative insights which unfortunately lead to argumentative distraction as in this obit thread, please consider making the above announcment a new thread in which exclusively CDC WHO NIH HLS and HSS news flashes may be added for concise ongoing news. The obit flu thread can be used for peroanl experiences? PS June to October will be a time period of most concern followed by another spike as much as one year from now due to mutations and the normal evolution of flu strains. |
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29 Apr 09 - 11:08 PM (#2621643) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Stilly River Sage The entire 140+ school Fort Worth Independent School District is closing down through the end of next week because of confirmed cases in the southwest side of town. My son is in a different school district, one that abuts the side of town where the schools are closed. His school is open, but we will have to watch the news. Fort Worth Star-Telegram story. SRS |
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29 Apr 09 - 11:21 PM (#2621647) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Alice I've had a sore, scratchy throat all day. |
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29 Apr 09 - 11:22 PM (#2621648) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Alice my post wasn't meant to make light of this. I did stop shaking hands with all the people I meet to work with, esp yesterday the people in the Urgent Care center. As they told me, every flu strain in the country eventually makes it to Montana. |
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30 Apr 09 - 12:58 AM (#2621678) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: katlaughing Good idea, Donuel. New thread for updates etc. is HERE. |
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30 Apr 09 - 02:09 AM (#2621696) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: GUEST,Tunesmith I've a horrible feeling that the British government aren't taking this threat seriously enough. |
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30 Apr 09 - 12:26 PM (#2621994) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: robomatic by the way, C |
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30 Apr 09 - 02:18 PM (#2622074) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Jeri This is always a damned if you do/don't do situation. Any mention of taking sensible precautions is seen as fear mongering and government spokespersons trying to calm others down are not taking things seriously enough. I note that (based on something I read earlier and don't have a link for) if you were vaccinated for the H1N1 flu that was epidemic in the US in 1976/7, you have a bit of a leg up on this one. I was in Air Force basic training during that, in quarantine at Lackland AFB. You can say that was an over-reaction, but there is no way to tell what might have been prevented. As with anything, listen and investigate the facts, then make intelligent decisions for yourselves. |
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30 Apr 09 - 02:44 PM (#2622087) Subject: RE: BS: Obit for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Jeri Here it is: From Bloombberg.com Understanding Swine Flu Spread: Questions and Answers (Update1) "Millions of people in the U.S. were vaccinated against swine flu in 1976. While that was not the same strain of flu as the one from Mexico, people who got the 1976 vaccine or who were exposed to that flu may have enough protection against the swine virus to prevent it or make an infection milder, said Robert Booy, head of clinical research at the National Centre for Immunisation Research & Surveillance in Sydney." |
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30 Apr 09 - 03:02 PM (#2622102) Subject: RE: BS: Updates - swine flu WHO-CDC-NIH-HLS-HSS From: GUEST,mg The economic backlash is going to be monumental in certain countries, culling their pork and probably bird flocks. Add to that lack of tourism, etc. Not pretty. One good thing will happen, in concert with the Midwest USA losing so many jobs and that is we will shine a light on animal husbandry, treatment of manure (hopefully changed right away to energy)and realize that many many jobs are needed in agriculture, food processing, slaughtering of animals etc., handling of waste better...even though we will and should pay more for certain foods. We are at heart an agricultural country and need to get back more to our sensible roots. And we need to look at our garbage practices...underground cesspools of dirty diapers, chicken bones, batteries, coffee grounds, toxic chemicals etc....mg |
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30 Apr 09 - 03:05 PM (#2622103) Subject: RE: BS: Updates - swine flu WHO-CDC-NIH-HLS-HSS From: SINSULL You don't owe anyone anything, Ms. Tam. You voiced a valid opinion. And given your loss, I can understand how this flu outbreak would give you special concern for your daughter. I expect to get the flu, be miserable for a few days and then forget about it. Most of us do. Some of us will suffer terrible losses. We all know it. The news outlets unfortunately are jumping all over this story and deliberately creating a "panic" reaction. It is wrong. Watch for supermarkets to be cleaned out next week when the majority of cases surface. |
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30 Apr 09 - 04:22 PM (#2622158) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: GUEST,Donuel I would WILDLY speculate that it would be best to get this new flu NOW than to get it a year from now. WHY? The Reason being is that you would acquire some resistence to this new type A H1N1 flu so that when it does [ and it will ] MUTATE into a a new form of type A flu ONE YEAR from today, you will have somthing akin to a vaccine already in your system. For example Carol might already have gained a resistence to a type A flu, having had 'a' flu last month. Please do not go to Mexico City or lick city bus seats upon this speculation. ":^/ |
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30 Apr 09 - 04:42 PM (#2622178) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: robomatic Jeri: Regarding your quote from Bloomberg indicating that a 1976 vaccination would do some good now, not only does that sound bogus, it is no longer at that address, what it has now is: Q: Have there been outbreaks of swine flu before? A: Yes. Health officials said in 1976 that an outbreak of swine flu in people might lead to a pandemic. Widespread vaccination was carried out in the U.S. before experts determined that the virus was not dangerous enough to cause a pandemic. Swine flu occasionally infects people in the U.S. without causing large outbreaks. From 2005 through January 2009, there were 12 reported swine flu cases in the U.S. None of them caused deaths. The flu virus mutates so rapidly even within flu seasons there is no reason to suppose that any vaccine not specifically manufactured for a given outbreak will do any good; vaccines often are not particularly effective even within a flu season. I doubt that a '76 vaccine remains in effect more than thirty years later. |
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30 Apr 09 - 05:32 PM (#2622201) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Jeri The quote is still here, but I have to agree it sounds bogus. Wishful thinking or something. What also sounds bogus is Donuel claiming CDC said that the worst case scenario is that one out of five humans on earth would get this flu. |
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30 Apr 09 - 06:50 PM (#2622239) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: bobad Aporkalypse Now |
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30 Apr 09 - 07:34 PM (#2622258) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: GUEST,donuel I always get a seat to myself on the subway. I just sit there and oink to myself and complain that my hair hurts. |
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30 Apr 09 - 07:40 PM (#2622261) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: heric I had to spend the entire day sitting next to a woman with kennel cough who had just flown in from Texas. |
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30 Apr 09 - 07:43 PM (#2622264) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Stilly River Sage I hear them bashing Joe Biden about his remarks about flying and catching stuff circulating in the plane. Too bad when the economics of flying (and the political clout of the airline industry) have to trump the common sense he spoke, of not getting in enclosed spaces for long periods of time and likely catching something in the process. I've caught colds and flu on airplanes. You get stuck in a seat near someone who is sick and you don't get just a few germs to fight off, you get clobbered every time they cough or even breathe much. :-/ Of course someone who doesn't share this opinion might come along and slam it as anecdotal, but I'm not the only one this has happened to. And a friend of mine who was a flight attendant said one of the best things about finally stopping flying for Delta after a dozen or more years was not getting sick all of the time from stuff passengers brought on board. It didn't matter if she was careful not to fly when she was sick, passengers didn't take that care, and they got her all of the time. SRS |
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30 Apr 09 - 09:33 PM (#2622315) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: robomatic Jeri wrote: What also sounds bogus is Donuel claiming CDC said that the worst case scenario is that one out of five humans on earth would get this flu. Jeri: Don'l (Hakman) has a hit-or-miss approach to truth, documentation, internet references, and the laws-of-physics. Other folks with these symptoms have been diagnozed as mythomanic. But I've also had the experience of reading something from him that seems out and out of the sky blue yonder, and just as I'm getting ready to give 'im a sound blast of factitude I do a little research, and damn, there's actually some truth in it! Dam it's hard to be humble. |
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01 May 09 - 03:43 AM (#2622408) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: VirginiaTam UK hospitals are already operating at or near capacity. The Department of Health is printing leaflets to put through every door urging people to find "flu friends" who can bring them groceries and supplies if they fall ill. However, the Department of Health (DoH) document seen by The Daily Telegraph warns that, during the peak of a flu pandemic, complications such as pneumonia could mean there are 10 times as many people requiring ventilators as the NHS can supply. If demand cannot be met, it recommends doctors deny treatment to the weakest patients so that resources can be shared among the greatest number. [snip] "The document, Pandemic Influenza: surge capacity and prioritisation in health services, sets out the criteria which doctors should use to determine which patients receive intensive care. If there is competition for places in intensive care units, patients suffering from advanced cancer could be refused beds along with pensioners suffering from severe burns, those with multiple organ failure and children suffering from advanced cancer, severe burns or trauma. If patients competing for life support are likely to have an equal benefit from treatment, decisions should be taken by lottery, the guidance concludes. [snip] I really hate the idea of a lottery to decide who gets treatment. For myself, I would prefer to be sick at home and if it comes to it to die there too, so I would not be seeking hospital admission. But to think of children and vulnerable adults suffering in pain, not getting ventilators because the hospitals have been downsized, makes me pretty angry. |
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01 May 09 - 06:37 PM (#2622880) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Mrrzy This seems to be hitting pretty healthy people, and I heard on NPR today that it's staying in the upper respiratory tract, so little pneumonia, which is the big killer. If it was engineered, can they do it so that it waits till it's everywhere to change into something worse? |
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01 May 09 - 06:52 PM (#2622886) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Emma B "It remains unclear why the virus has killed so many young, healthy adults — a concern because this is characteristic of pandemic strains. One possibility is that the virus triggers a massive immune reaction called a cytokine storm, which is worse in fit people with a strong immune system. This is thought to have been the chief cause of death during the Spanish Flu of 1918-19, which was caused by an H1N1 strain." An extract from an informative science article in The Times April 28th Full article Deadly strain of swine flu gets under radar of the immune system |
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02 May 09 - 09:30 AM (#2623103) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Riginslinger I heard they were going to exterminate all of the swine in Egypt, but every time I see a video of the place it seems like there's still a lot of them there. |
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02 May 09 - 11:32 AM (#2623148) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: number 6 I think more people are going to die from all the anxiety caused by being constantly bombarded by the news media, and chatter on all these web foumrms about this flu. IMHO biLL |
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02 May 09 - 12:09 PM (#2623160) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Emma B Jonathan Gornall is a freelance investigative journalist who specialises in medical and child-protection issues. In an interesting article Pandemic or panic? he considers the media reporting and considers that 'It doesn't help that official-speak is often stripped of cautionary meaning as it passes through the media headline filter. On Monday, when the WHO raised its threat level to phase 4, most media organisations reported only that it had been raised to the "third highest level", without explaining what the levels meant. In fact, phases 1 to 3 are "predominantly animal infections; few human infections". Phase 4 is characterised as "sustained human-to-human transmission". Wednesday's announcement by Dr Margaret Chan, WHO's director general, that the alert had now reached phase 5, "widespread human infection", required only "human-to-human spread of the virus into at least two countries in one WHO region". However his most critical observation for myself reflects the considerably more callous comment by the boss of Ryanair, Michael O'Leary, that 'It is a tragedy only for people living. . . in slums in Asia or Mexico' He quotes instead Yuen Kwok-yung, a microbiology professor at the University of Hong Kong, who told Reuters that the situation in Mexico might be attributable to "deficiencies" in the country's healthcare system "and widespread antibiotic resistance that is typical of developing countries, resulting in victims dying of secondary infections. Dr Chan, WHO director general, said it was possible that the "full clinical spectrum of this disease goes from mild illness to severe disease", but there was a danger that swine flu could prove to be a burden chiefly on the poor – and that introduced a moral obligation on the rest of the world community. "From past experience," she said, "we also know that influenza may cause mild disease in affluent countries, but more severe disease, with higher mortality, in developing countries "Above all, this is an opportunity for global solidarity as we look for responses and solutions that benefit all countries, all of humanity. After all, it really is all of humanity that is under threat during a pandemic." |
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02 May 09 - 12:28 PM (#2623167) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Emma B 'chatter on all these web foumrms about this flu.' You could well be right Bill 'Pig plague and Twitter' 'Disinformation + internet = fear?' According to CNN for some their role appears to be to spread disinformation, propagate fear and generally convert the unwashed masses into headless chickens drip-fed nonsense by sites such as Twitter. 'Among the gems on offer are plenty of tweets - advising people not to eat pork, - gloating vegetarians suggesting their day of vindication is nigh, - biolgical warfare conspiracy theories and - links to handy Google Maps mashups showing the inexorable spread of the mutant armageddon virus' Twitter is not, though, a media outlet. Sadly, the real media's handling of the outbreak, complete with doomsday statmongers ("could kill up to 200m, maybe..."), restrained headlines ("Horror in the Hospitals", as the Sun described the first couple of cases) has increasingly driven people to seek alternative sources of information |
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02 May 09 - 02:25 PM (#2623210) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Q (Frank Staplin) It's amazing! Many people seem to believe what they say on CNN and Fox News. The yellow sheets-tabloids and fakirs are alive and well on cable and the internet. A couple of days ago we received a communique from a relative, supposedly an article on cancer and diet from Johns Hopkins Univ. Medical section. It looked wrong- checking at the Johns Hopkins website found nothing like it. Today we found a Scopes article showing that the report was phoney, not from Johns Hopkins at all. [We read two of the articles on the Johns Hopkins website; one recommending a diet heavy on proteins and carbs for children receiving chemotherapy because they lose their appetite, and including items like peaches and cream. It included recipes for things kids like and will tweak their appetite. The other related to diet in breast cancer- normal diet, with the usual proviso of low-fat, as they recommend for everybody.] |
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02 May 09 - 02:37 PM (#2623213) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Emma B Well I'm not claiming to 'believe' CNN but, on this occasion, it is simply quoting some of the many 'tweets' about the outbreak of this influenza strain on Twitter - easy enough to verify surely? My point, for anyone who can be bothered to read to the end of the post, was precisely that there is considerable disinformation both in the media and on forums |
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07 May 09 - 03:01 PM (#2626480) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: heric Yet again, the world tries to keep up with Donuel: "If the situation continues to evolve and the virus does become established in other countries, and we do move into a pandemic, we would expect the virus to infect many people," said WHO chief Keiji Fukuda at a press conference today. "Perhaps a third of the world's population could be infected with this virus, based on previous pandemic." |
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13 May 09 - 02:57 PM (#2631055) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu vic From: Wolfgang Just a few of the many crazy theories about the origin: (1) The swine flu was cultured in a lab (1a) ...as a common enterprise by several governments to fight world overpopulation (2) The swine flu was started by the Obama government to quicken the process of getting Kathleen Sebelius into office (3) The flu was started by pharma companies to help increase the sales of flu medications (4) The flu was a failed attempt to kill Obama when he was in Mexico in April (5) The flu was started to kill Mexicans so fewer of them come over to the USA. Those are just a few "theories". If something bad happens that cannot be controlled and is not understood (completely) then someone just has to be blamed. When the black death came to Europe many centuries ago the obvious culprits then were, of course, the Jews. Some centuries later, witches were the first choice culprits for adverse weather phenomena of any kind. Wolfgang |
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13 May 09 - 03:16 PM (#2631064) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: SINSULL There are people who honestly believe that AIDS was manufactured to wipe out poor blacks. Swine flu was invented to prove a point. For years, the pundits said that if a black man became president pigs would fly. Obama was sworn in and swine flew. I'll get my hat... |
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13 May 09 - 10:13 PM (#2631291) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Riginslinger "It's amazing! Many people seem to believe what they say on CNN and Fox News." It's amazing that people are lumping CNN and Fox News together. Soon it will be MSNBC and the other side won't have a voice. |
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14 May 09 - 09:21 PM (#2632145) Subject: RE: BS: Obit & Debate for Swine Bird Human flu victims From: Donuel Rumsfeld and Cheney discussing their recent Tamiflu profits... Don: Well Dick we did pretty good this time around. Dick: Yeah Yeah but we could do even better next time. Don: How is that? Dick: We could engineer another flu and call it the Dog Flu. Don: OMG, thats genius! |