22 Feb 99 - 07:28 PM (#59678) Subject: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Rob O Hey all... I got my hands on a CD called Sons of Somerled, and heard a fairly cool rendition of this song. Which got me to thinking a few things that I know someone someone around her can answer. :) 1) "Gae" would be the same as gay as in happy? 2) "Tak" I saw this both in the lyric sheet with the CD and in the Digitrad database. Is this just a dialected version of Take or does it have its own meaning? 3) Oh, does anyone have a good chord progression for it? |
22 Feb 99 - 07:30 PM (#59679) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Maelgwyn (inactive) I think 'gae' is 'go' and 'tak' does mean 'take'. |
22 Feb 99 - 09:44 PM (#59715) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: alison Hi, I agree with Maelgwyn, it's just scottish dialect..... (have a go at reading some of Cuillionn's entries to threads sometime..... you'll get the idea...) slainte alison |
23 Feb 99 - 01:44 PM (#59836) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Ferrara Do they give the history? I'm pretty sure it was written by a Scot who was waiting to be executed in England for rebellion. The Low Road is the road through Faerie, ie he is saying that he will never see Scotland again in this world but will see it in the hereafter. Somebody help -- is this fakelore or have I got it right? - Rita |
23 Feb 99 - 02:03 PM (#59841) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: dick greenhaus Rita- Good story, but fake. It's actually a fairly modern set of words, as I recall-- |
23 Feb 99 - 02:13 PM (#59843) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Bruce O. The previous thread, giving the history, was in September, 1997. |
23 Feb 99 - 07:56 PM (#59911) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: I seem to recall that the poem was written by Robert Burns and later set to music. As I do not have a book of poetry (English or otherwise) handy, I won't mortgage my house on my memory. But that's my recollection. |
23 Feb 99 - 08:12 PM (#59913) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Bruce O. It's was about 80 years after Burns died that the song appeared. Use the 'Forum Search' on 'Loch Lomond' to get the earlier messages. |
23 Feb 99 - 08:30 PM (#59916) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Bruce O. The book where is song is said to first appear is 'The Poets and Poetry of Scotland', 1876. www.bookfinder.com lists several copies for sale. |
24 Feb 99 - 06:38 PM (#60070) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca There is more than one version of the song. Check the thread search as I know I posted something before off the Scots Music list, and no longer have it. |
26 Feb 99 - 12:22 AM (#60342) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Don Meixner Loch Lomond has had a lot of mutations over the years. There have been some fairly sanitized versions as well as some blood thirsty ones. A bee bop version was done in WWII and I once heard a real Messy Soprano sing it on the Sullivan Show. The most listenable version I've heard was done by The Coories. I think because they just sang the song outright without pretense or trying to make it more than it was. I realize that there some out there in the electric mists who view The Coories with the same disdain as they might John Denver or PPM. For me they were the first people to sing Scottish songs and make them accessible for me. They were also the first dialectic singers I ever heard who sang like their voices matched their words. (Sandy Paton's Many Sides album ofcourse won't be mentioned here.) Maybe we sould discuss performing as a new thread or resurrect the old one that surely must exist. Don Meixner |
26 Feb 99 - 09:20 AM (#60390) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Jack Hickman - Kingston, ON |
26 Feb 99 - 09:27 AM (#60394) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Jack Hickman - Kingston, ON Pardon the blank message above. I hit the Enter button by mistake. I think, like many well-known folk songs, the words to Loch Lomond were likely put to a much older melody, which has been lost in the mists of time. Another example is Danny Boy, which refers to the lyrics put to the traditional air entitled "Air from the County Derry" or the "Derry(Londonderry) Air." My personal view is that the Danny Boy lyrics are overdone, and we should stick to the music. Buth having ranted my fill, back to Loch Lomond. I don't know the name of the melody to which these lyrics have been attached, but another lovely song using the same melody is "Red is the Rose", the words to which were composed in recent years by Sarah Makem, the mother of Tommy Makem, and a fine singer in her own right. A lovely song worth learning. Keep the Faith. Jack Hickman |
26 Feb 99 - 02:22 PM (#60440) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: jo77 If you'll send me your lyric I'll chord it for ye :) Gae = go I am not Scottish but one of my ole buddies was and in addition to this gorgeous song is also 'I Belong tae Glasgow' This one is not for a 'teatotaller' :) qtech@ionet.net |
26 Feb 99 - 08:18 PM (#60511) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Jack Campin Bruce gives an 1876 date for this. That may be the date of first book publication, but it's older. There is a discussion of it in Piping Times, Oct 1971. The first appearance of something like the modern song was a broadside by Sanderson of Edinburgh, 1838. This was picked up from a boy singing it in the street by Lady John Scott, who tidied up some loose ends and gave us what we have now. I can find the Sanderson thing easily enough, I guess; local libraries have masses of his broadsides. Can't say this song does much for me. Sanderson's version was heavily adapted to the point of parody from an older one, but the standard myth applies to no version of it in existence. Pure twaddle. |
27 Feb 99 - 10:23 AM (#60585) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Lesley N. Before I got look at the original thread (which I probably should do BEFORE posting this) - one of my sources says the tune was based on an old air, "Robin Cushie". |
27 Feb 99 - 12:23 PM (#60595) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Bruce O. Use forum search on subject: 'Loch Lomond', and see the note by Murray on Saltspring regarding "Kind Robin Loves Me" = Robin Cushee/Cushie (Robin quoth she). ABC's of two versions of the tune are on my website as KNDROBN1 and KNDROBN2 in file S1.HTM.
|
01 Mar 99 - 05:17 AM (#60846) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: JESTER! A rather rollicking version (almost rockabilly, sorta) apears on the albul "Invisible Means", a colaboration of Richard Thompson, Henry Kaiser, Fred Frith and Michael (?) French. Richard does the lead vocals, and Hank rips off some solos that you've never heard with Scots folksongs, regardless of authenticity. Great players with a sense of humor- check it out! J! |
23 Jun 99 - 06:15 PM (#89161) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: |
27 Jul 01 - 04:14 AM (#515726) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: pavane By chance, I turned up this song - although it doesn't mention Loch Lomond, it looks like the same song, and is approximately the same age as the Sanderson broadside - may even be older, being printed in Newcastle between 1832 and 1842. |
27 Jul 01 - 05:05 AM (#515744) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: ard mhacha Nana Moskuri,Sings it as well as anyone I have heard. I also remember the history of the song as about two brothers imprisoned in Carlisle after the 1745 rebellion. One of the brothers is dying and he implies that he will take the low road, etc. Even if it is another folk song taking poetic lisence, the song takes a new meaning, espically when sung by Nana. Slan Ard Mhacha. |
24 Oct 02 - 02:32 PM (#810346) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: GUEST,anonymous We're singing this song in Women's Ensemble, and no one can figure out how to pronounce anything. From what I can tell, "gae" means "gaze", but I hear people saying it means "go" who would also make sense. "Tak'" is "take", as in "You'll take the high road." |
24 Oct 02 - 02:35 PM (#810349) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Sorcha If you will go to the Scots Dictionary, which is here, you'll find most of the meanings. |
24 Oct 02 - 06:35 PM (#810519) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: GUEST,Shonagh Ive always known Loch Lomond to be about two soldiers (Scottish) who were captured in England and one of them dies. The low road being his death and the high road being the one to Scotland. and i'll be in Scotland afore ye... implies that he'll be there in spirit before the other one escapes over the border. Its always been this story in my house. Not sure if its true or not, but the folk in my town have always believed it! |
24 Oct 02 - 07:15 PM (#810543) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: GUEST There is a movie out, "Legend of Loch Lomond," the "ghost story of 18th century lovers, cruelly separated by war, but reunited in the present day by a beautiful young singer...." No, I don't want to see it. |
24 Oct 02 - 07:32 PM (#810564) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: GUEST,Q The legend most commonly associated with "Loch Lomond" is told here: Loch Lomond In 1745, two soldiers, captured and thrown into Carlisle jail by English soldiers, one to be set free, the other to be executed. The old Celtic belief is that if you die away from your homeland, you return by an underground spirit route called the "low road." Those transported in death arrive home immediately, whereas the one on the high road will take many days to get home. |
24 Oct 02 - 07:55 PM (#810584) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Malcolm Douglas It is, however, a completely imaginary, modern invention, and comprehensively discredited. There is no such "Celtic" belief. It is, as Jack Campin (who knows what he is talking about) described in this thread two-and-a half years ago as "pure twaddle". Did you not bother to read the discussion before posting to it? |
24 Oct 02 - 10:23 PM (#810691) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: GUEST,Q Malcolm, I gave the true story of Loch Lomond in Rosie's Posies post by Guest 05:39PM, 22 Oct 02. On the other hand, how can a website called "The Thistle & Shamrock" be wrong? Repeat the story often enough, and it becomes gospel. Which it has. Legend 4, Twaddle nil. Frankly, I rank this song right up there with the great Irish classic (shurely by O Carolan) about saintly (shurely should be beatified) Mother McCree. |
24 Oct 02 - 11:25 PM (#810728) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Tak the High Road From: Malcolm Douglas Oh, was that you? Fair enough, then. Please use a consistent pseudonym, though, so we can keep track of who has said what! That link doesn't work, mind, so the true horror of "Thistle and Shamrock" is (mercifully, perhaps) as yet undisclosed.... |
25 Oct 02 - 06:40 AM (#810896) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road From: IanC The usual words, including the chorus, are generally attributed to Lady John Scott - as Lesley Nelson does here. A set of previous words (which our Alicia probably used as the basis for her words), as well as a useful section from Ford's "Song Histories", is in Suzanne's Notes. I couldn't find the "September 1997" post. :-) |
25 Oct 02 - 12:54 PM (#811181) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road From: GUEST The attribution to Lady Scott is repeated in several places. Has anyone a printing of her version? |
25 Oct 02 - 01:53 PM (#811229) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road From: PeteBoom Regarding Legend 4, Twaddle Nil... I'm throwing in my bit on the twaddle side. Most of the folks I've heard (or read) supporting the 2 soldiers/lovers/whatever are seriously into the Brigadoonery I've been working against here in the States for longer than I'd care to admit. They're the same folks that go on about wearing the "right" tartan for the clan they "belong" to (having paid the $20 fee), and how (Bonnie) Charles Edward was much beloved by his soldiers and respected by his generals and how the bagpipe is a great instrument invented in Scotland and it was banned after Culloden, and suspect that Stonehenge was "built by the Druids". They also find the strict historical accuracy of the films Braveheart and Rob Roy astounding. If guilt by association, if not inference, is fair game, then the "legend" is pure twaddle. Have a day - Pete |
25 Oct 02 - 06:17 PM (#811446) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road From: GUEST,Q Gee, Pete, don't knock the tartans. Selling of the "ancestral" cloth and accoutrements puts food on the table for a lot of people. National Public Radio, in the States, was one of the purveyors of the Twa soldiers in the Jacobite Rebellion legend. Their program convinced American and Canadian viewers of the truth of the story. It is perhaps the best known story about a song. The Gringo and the Rosie legends are two more with wide currency. They might not generate as much heat as the argument over Celtic-Seltic-Keltic-whatever (which is carried out on several levels) but once a story is accepted, people vehemently object to its displacement. Remonstration becomes a personal attack. |
26 Oct 02 - 04:49 AM (#811759) Subject: RE: Loch Lomond/ You Take the High Road From: Teribus Hi Pete, Thank you very much, your; "They also find the strict historical accuracy of the films Braveheart and Rob Roy astounding." Has made my day, got a very good laugh out of it. Thanks again!!! |
29 Mar 03 - 04:29 PM (#921367) Subject: correct pronounciation please From: GUEST can anyone tell us the correct pronounciation of 'Lomond'..is it with the 'd' or without.... Many thanks Dave! |
13 Sep 03 - 07:19 PM (#1018354) Subject: RE: Chords Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: GUEST FROM BOH. IT IS WITH THE D. DA DA DA DA DA DA AND AL TAK THE ? |
13 Sep 03 - 09:33 PM (#1018397) Subject: RE: Chords Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: GUEST,Bruce O If it isn't too late to respond to Leslie's comment above, "Robin Cushee" is a corruption of "King Robin quo she". The earliest copy of the song is "Scotch Moggy's Misfortune", an English reworking of a Scots's ballad, somewhat bawdy, which may be found in the Scarce Songs 1 file at www.erols.com/olsonw, and in the broadside ballad index there. There's also an ABC there of the earliest known copy of it's tune. |
14 Sep 03 - 02:45 PM (#1018718) Subject: RE: Chords Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: GUEST,leeneia "It is, however, a completely imaginary, modern invention, and comprehensively discredited." Hooray for you, Malcolm! Thanks for debunking another handful of troublemaking nonsense. There is no way to peace; peace is the way. |
16 Nov 03 - 04:48 PM (#1054930) Subject: RE: Chords Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: GUEST,Jim Rattray Hi Gae means Go |
03 Sep 09 - 07:28 PM (#2715808) Subject: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You'l Take the High Road From: Genie At the moment (Sept. 3, 2009), Wikipedia has the familiar lyrics to Loch Lomond - those attributed above and often elsewhere to Lady Scott - as being the words to Andrew Lang's poem. "Andrew Lang About 1876, the Scottish poet and folklorist Andrew Lang wrote a poem based on the song titled "The Bonnie Banks o' Loch Lomond". The title sometimes has the date "1746" appended[3]--the year of the defeat of Bonnie Prince Charlie's rebellion and the hanging of some of his captured supporters. Lang's poem begins: There's an ending o' the dance, and fair Morag's safe in France, And the Clans they hae paid the lawing, ..." It goes on to give the lyrics we see in the DT for "Loch Lomond" (no number). So I'm still trying to figure out who wrote those most familiar words to "Loch Lomond" and where the tune came from. |
03 Sep 09 - 07:37 PM (#2715815) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: Genie ETA: From reading the various threads here and what is currently at Wikipedia, it seems that the familiar tune (as in Red Is the Rose) may have been gleaned by Lady Scott, along with the "By yon bonnie banks ... " lyrics from hearing a boy singing it on the street -- OR those lyrics were set (by someone) to an older tune of unknown origin. I'm just trying to figure out what I should use for attribution when I pass this song along. |
03 Sep 09 - 09:05 PM (#2715856) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: Jack Campin Bruce Olson gave the tune for "Kind Robin loes me", which as he said is from the 18th century. Words: unknown balladeer c.1830, tidied up by Lady John Scott much later. I tried to find the Sanderson broadside but failed. There are bundles of their broadsides all over the place, though. I suspect the Newcastle broadside is a side branch of the song's evolution. It's pretty coherent and it would be surprising if the song later evolved to lose all reference to famous historical characters like Charles Stuart and Flora Macdonald. More likely the balladeer decided it would make for a more saleable product if he or she put them in, but the sheet didn't catch on. |
03 Sep 09 - 09:33 PM (#2715871) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: Q (Frank Staplin) This is a tough one. The following from James J. Fuld, The Book of World-Famous Music. "The earliest printing of this song was probably about 1840-1841, when it was published in sheet music form under the title Bonnie Loch Loman. The cover states that the song is from "Vocal Melodies of Scotland," and is arranged with symphonies and accompaniments for the piano forte by Finlay Dun and John Thomson...there is a reference to Stationers' Hall; ...states written by a Lady. Arranged by Finlay Dun. ...The back cover advertises contents of the four volumes of the "Vocal Melodies of Scotland.".... The song was not in fact included in any of the four volumes of "Vocal Melodies of Scotland," at NLS [National Library of Scotland], nor entered at Stationers' Hall." Fuld continues his discussion, comparing some melodic phrases with "The Bonniest Lass in a' the World"...[1733].... "However in this writer's opinion [Fuld], "Loch Lomond is sufficiently different to be considered a distinct song." Dang near everybody who has commented on Scottish song has suggested authors, i. e. Lady Scott, or tried to tie it to the times of Bonnie Prince Charlie, but nothing convincing. Jack Campin (above) lists a tune from Olson that is very similar to the tune of "Loch Lomond," but for lyrics, "unknown" seems to be the most accurate assessment. |
03 Nov 13 - 07:48 PM (#3572575) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: GUEST We may never know what the original version of Loch Lomond was. I grew up hearing the Yon Bonnie Banks version, also sung too fast by American singers. A couple of years ago I was on YouTube looking for a good version of the song, as heard on the radio. I never found that but I found The Corries' version and I never really liked any other version as much again, unless I considered it a completely different song. Roy Williamson captures so much emotion in his rendition. The mood of these two versions is so different they could easily be regarded as having nothing to do with each other. Then there are the Irish Red as the Rose lyrics, which I also like better than the Yon Bonnie Banks. |
03 Nov 13 - 08:41 PM (#3572591) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: Lighter This thread has more complete information: thread.cfm?threadid=65319 |
05 Jan 23 - 06:35 PM (#4161435) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: Jim McLean See Robert Ford’s Vagabond Songs and Ballads for answers to lots of speculation on the above posts. |
05 Jan 23 - 08:27 PM (#4161454) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: meself "The mood of these two versions is so different they could easily be regarded as having nothing to do with each other." I suppose the 'mood' might depend on whether you regard the song as being about a Scotsman facing death far from home, and bidding farewell to a fellow Scot, or about a Scotsman far from home challenging another Scotsman to a race ... ! |
07 Jan 23 - 06:10 AM (#4161577) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: GUEST,Rossey The earlier versions on broadsides are Charlie related and a couple be seen on line. http://ballads.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/static/images/sheets/10000/05300.gif https://digital.nls.uk/broadsides/view/?id=14916 The Loch Lomond line is sometimes Ben Lomond the Loch not mentioned. I haven't seen the 1840 Dunn song book, but it is quoted in a 1902 newspaper.. and if it is the same- this is still Charlie related and not the general version we know. So the oft quoted fact of Lady Scott having supplied the 'modernised' lyrics would not be accurate. Newcastle Journal 4th Feb 1902. BONNIE BANKS O’ LOCH LOMOND.” A Lady very kindly sends me 2 version of the above song which I have not seen before; nor many of my readers, mayhap. It is copied from a book of manuscript music about 50 years old. There is no chorus as in the modern version, and the piece bears this record: —“Words by a Lady: arranged by F. Dun.” As my correspondent observes, this version indicates the character of the ‘trouble’” referred to in the second. The song is, in this case, entitled “Bonnie Loch Loman’ and runs as follows:— By yon bonnie banks and yon bonnie braes, Where the sun shines sweet on Loch Loman, Where we hae past sae mony happy days On the bonnle, -bonnie banks o’ Loch Loman, 0, ye'll tak’ the high road and I'll tak’ the low road, And I'll be in Scotland before ye; But trouble is there, and mony hearts are sair On the bonnie, bonnie banks o’ Loch Loman. ‘We'll meet where we parted in yon shady glen On the steep side o’ Ben Loman, A When'in purple hue the Hieland hills we view, And the moon Iooks out frae the gloamin’. Still fair is the scene, but.ah! how changed are-the hopes we fondly cherished; Like a watery gleam - like a morning dream On Culloden Field they hae perished. Ah! many that met and freely did rove, Now ’mang the brakin are hidin’ An’ men guid and true are hunted frae view, An’ exile or death are abidin’, Wi’ his fair youthfu’ face and his native grace, His plaidie in the breeze wavin’ lightiy, His buckies shinin’ clear, his very sight did cheer. Oh! handsome were the looks of Prince Charlie! The words we all know with the wee birdies sing etc. and tidied up into 'modern' form are published in 1876 Christies Traditional Ballad airs, and can be seen on-line. www.scribd.com/document/492760873/Christie-W-Traditional-Ballad-Airs-1876-vol-1# It is also published in the 'modern' form in the 1885 book Songs of the North Macleod and Bolton with arrangement by Malcom Lawson. This can be downloaded on-line. |
07 Jan 23 - 07:55 AM (#4161587) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: GUEST,Rossey Further to this the full seven verse original 1840 text is included here in this 1892 book, and now makes more sense. It was later tidied, but the text includes the wee birdies bit etc. if somebody could copy it down.. and put it up. I don't have time and energy. https://archive.org/details/brownsbookstalln02aber/page/n665/mode/2up?q=%22wee+birdies+sing%22 |
07 Jan 23 - 09:15 AM (#4161598) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: GUEST,Rossey I just noticed the portion where this reproduced is dated 1911, not as I said above 1892. The bound journal runs from 1892. Also this upends the Lady Scott attribution as she reportedly confirmed she didn't write it. It's worth transferring the whole story given plus the versions reproduced. |
07 Jan 23 - 10:30 AM (#4161613) Subject: RE: Info Req: Loch Lomond/You Take the High Road From: Vic Smith LOCH LOMOND (As sung by the immortal combination of Charlie Murray and Adam Young at TMSA Festivals in the late '60s and early '70s) It wis last Sunday nicht, that I got an awfa’ fricht, When I went for a swim in Loch Lomond. For I found when I got oot that my claithes were no’ aboot For some passer by had pinched them in the gloaming, And I couldna’ tak’ the high road, I couldna’ take the low road I jist stood naked, freezing in the gloaming,. I wis such an awfa’ fricht when it cam’ tae broad daylicht, I wis carried hame in blankets frae Loch Lomond. <><><> Now a big surprise I got when I hired a little boat On a fishing expedition on Loch Lomond For a hooked a muckle weight and I’m gonna’ tell you straight It kept me there all nicht until next morning For it wouldna’ tak the high rod, it wouldna’ tak’ the low rod. The beast weighed ower’ a ton, I’ll be swearing. Then what d’ye think I see staring through twa eyes o’ green. It wis the Loch Ness monster in Loch Lomond <><><> I went upon a spree at a local jubilee In a hotel on the banks o’ Loch Lomond, And I wis nearly hung for a song that I had sung And they threatened they would droon me in Loch Lomond For I couldn’a hit the high notes, I couldn’a hit the low notes, The master o’ the hoose, he was swearing. And I clean forget the air when they hit me wi’ a chair Then they dumped in the bushes by Loch Lomond |