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Searching Staff....Is this right?
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 11 Nov 09 - 06:51 PM ...and I claim page 4 with an idea. Lizzie - a comendable goal. would go out of my way to ensure they were decently paid, decently rewarded and felt a real part of the business, seeing bonuses come *their* way as much as mine. In answe to my last question, how about you go first? I would recommend a little reading first though and would recommend 'The ragged trousered philantropists' by Robet Tressell. Look at how abused the workforce was back then. Look at the marvelous ideas for a Utopian society. Then read the last chapter where it is all ruined, by the human nature of both sides. If it gets too heavy maybe a revisit of 'Animal Farm' would be in order? DeG |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Ruth Archer Date: 11 Nov 09 - 06:51 PM "They wouldn't be stealing in the first place, because I'd damn well be looking after them, realising that without them I'd have no business. I would go out of my way to ensure they were decently paid, decently rewarded and felt a real part of the business, seeing bonuses come *their* way as much as mine." This is totally naive. To go back to the example of the pub where I worked: it was a new business, set up by an enthusiastic couple. It had live music, a lively clientele, paid decent wages, and if you worked a late shift they gave you a meal. Someone - a doctor's son, as it turned out, who was better off than pretty much everyone else working there - decided to go on the fiddle anyway. He didn't steal because he was being undervalued, or because he needed the money: he stole because he could. Because he was greedy. Because he didn't care what happened to the rest of us and our jobs. Another example: a couple I knew in my hometown used to provide summer jobs in their shops for ex-pats and students from the UK and Ireland. They had done this for years, even letting new arrivals stay with them till they got themselves sorted with digs, paid well, and didn't breathe down their necks or watch everyone like hawks because they had trust in their employees. One year they even let a young English couple manage one of their shops for the summer. Well, this young English couple realised that, because of the trust placed in them, it would be fairly easy to start nicking. So they did. Hundreds, maybe thousands, of dollars. They weren't found out for ages because they were doing all the banking themselves. And when they were discovered, they did a runner. Naturally, the owners were terribly shocked and upset by this, and stopped hiring ex-pats and students. So loads of other people were screwed by the selfishness of just two people. That's all stealing often is, I'm afraid: opportunistic, selfish acts done by people just because they can. So I think Green Wellies' question is still a valid one. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: MGM·Lion Date: 12 Nov 09 - 01:53 AM Exactly, D el G & Ruth — as I said above it can all, in a non-doctrinal sense, be put down to what might be termed 'Original Sin'. There just are, unhappily, people who are opportunistic & untrustworthy however much you confide in them & however well you treat them. We seem agreed, Lizzie, that this is the aspect of the matter you are failing to address. & it's really no use your turning all hoity-toity & saying you'll choose which questions to answer, that's your privilege . It isn't, because you OP'd this thread, so surely have a moral, if not a legal, obligation to defend and justify the positions you have taken up rather than choose to ignore opposition to them if it just happens to suit you to do so. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: GREEN WELLIES Date: 12 Nov 09 - 04:25 AM I know I said I wouldn't post again, but hey ho, this is regarding trust. As some of you know, we have a livery yard renting stables and grazing. A couple of years ago we had two vacancies and were contacted by a lovely family looking for stabling for the mothers horse and the childs pony. They visited, had a look, I explained the rules and routines, they also had all the yard info in writing, both parties had a think about it., ie., was our yard right for them (no two yards are the same!), and from our point of view did I think they would fit in with my existing clients. A few days later they phoned to say they would take up the stables and arrived with their horses a week later. For approximately 9 months everything was fine, they looked after their horses to my standards, followed all the rules, got on well with all my existing clients, some of which have been with me for over 10 years. I allowed them to park their lorry on site, we went off to shows and met up for drinks and bbq's in the evenings, the lot. Then things started to change, one of our 'rules' is that when you need hay you help yourself from the barn, record it on the list, and pay at the end of the month. Their horses were never without hay, but only half was ever recorded - and I know how much hay a horse will eat! Other clients were finding that their tack had been used, feed was being used up quicker than normal. Two ladies kept a record of these incidents as these things only happened when the 'new' family were alone on the yard. They came to me and I agreed to look at their 'evidence' and keep an eye on things for myself. After about 6 months, I had to agree with their findings. Then things took a sinister turn. Their horses were moved from one field to another without my permission, breaking one of the golden rules you never ever move a horse without asking first. When I asked why they had done it the husband said it was because my horse had attacked their pony. I found this completely unbelievable, my horse just does not behave in that way. Their horse was not injured at all so I asked them to return their horses to the correct field and all went back to normal. Then soon afterwards this happened again. This evening I was alone on the yard, it was late and dark. The husband turned up and I asked him why their horses had been moved. Well to say he scared the life out of me was an understatement - he stood right in my face, I mean nose to nose, and shouted 'I'll put my f*****g horses where the f***k I like' and so he went on and on, threatening, bullying, intimidating. He left me shaking and scared for my life - no joke. They had turned from the perfect horsie family to the customers from hell, with the intent of taking over the yard, and nobody - but nobody saw it coming. My husband and his farming mates turned up the next morning and chucked them off the yard. The point I'm making is that you may think that you're employing the nicest, most honest, trustworthy, genuine people in the world, but you just dont know what people are really like. It is impossible to know. From this experience I can see why, rightly or wrongly, employers do not trust staff no matter how nice they appear to be at the interview. Once bitten etc. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 12 Nov 09 - 05:12 AM Liz - I feel your pain. I understand your anger...that stems from frustration....and a "system" that does not fit your sense of "higher values."
In today's world... union membership is NOT a system of "worker VS management." It is a cooperative network.
Personally, I like the Dutch analogy of the "polder system," ie...if the dyke is breached we all drown together." None of us wants to be submerged. And we are all living in a time of "high tides" and "stormy forecasts."
Take it from the "lone wolves" that have weathered many a battle...against the vilest of foes....going blow for blow, solo, against the big-boys for years. .... it helps,it is necessary,it is vital,to have the "force of the pack" behind your cause...when it looks like they have you by the throat and you will never hear the "ten-count"...a powerful union (with its lawyers) has no equal...hopefuly they are never needed.
Sincerely,
It is very hard to imagine why, recently, you Brits keep - spewing your spleen to audiences un-seen...So... times are that hard on the island? |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 12 Nov 09 - 09:36 AM My Dear Dad worked as an optician all his life. He built up the business back just after the War, with his friend, Eric Massey. Together they made it a success, going on to open quite a few branches. Nothing was ever put in writing. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: GREEN WELLIES Date: 12 Nov 09 - 10:16 AM Nothing to disagree with there Lizzie, I have certain friends who I would trust with my life, family, horses and bank balance, without a second thought. But taking on complete strangers whom you know nothing about except what they choose to tell you, is a completely different matter. And I wouldn't rely on references either, anyone can write a reference. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 12 Nov 09 - 10:36 AM Oops...it posted before I'd finished... :0) Nothing was ever put in writing...a 'gentleman's agreement'....and lo and behold...40 years later, Dad went in to work to find that his 'partner' (who was the one with the money) had sold out to D&A's, the big optical firm. Not a word had been said to Dad, not a single word...All those years when he'd been the one putting in the work and there it was....gone. He never really recovered from the sense of betrayal from his friend, but at no time did he lose his trust in other people. He realised, eventually, that his friend Eric was no friend at all, just one who was ruled by greed and disloyalty, but he never viewed others in the same way. This was because my Dad was a good man, who refused to dislike people or be suspicious of them. You cannot treat everyone as if they are thieves. It is total madness. We live in a world now where trust is starting to become a thing of the past.... We are all viewed as potential terrorists, paedeophiles, thieves... It is wrong. Oh, and there is no moral or legal requirement for me to answer any questions from those above, no matter how determined they are to get me to do so. I am my own person and I will answer what I choose to, in the way I choose to. My way. Thank you. And.....you all have a great deal to learn from my Father. Oh...and today I spotted a 'Security Desk' in Boots, in our town...manned by a swarthy looking Security Guard, who looked as he'd murder yer Granny.....so who knows, perhaps Boots have decided to search their customers now, as well as their staff....????? And don't even get me started on the way the Postmen are being treated by Adam Crozier and his Shite Team in The Royal Mail, because..after travelling back on the bus with two very angry Posties, I nearly got the Rebellion started...as half the bus joined in the conversation I was having with them. Bring BACK the Union Men! |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 12 Nov 09 - 10:44 AM The way forward is to bring the trust BACK, gw...not to become more and more paranoid all the time, as is happening now. Geez, I had to have TWO forms of identity just to get a LIBRARY card the other day. ??????????????? Many staff are being treated like shite, being forced into accepting bad conditions, bad pay, bad treatment, because if they don't, then they don't get the job....and that is shite! And another thing..... You can only get a job in Boots by going online, or being put through the most dumbed down, patronising telephone questionnaire...which asks such questions as (and I cannot recall the exact wording here): 'Do you deem yourself to be a) Dishonest b) Slightly dishonest c) Honest' I mean??????????????????????? Obviously, their policy ain't working, 'cos they're stuck into thinking that all their stafff answered 'a'...or maybe that's their problem...they only take staff who answer 'a' in the first place! LOL Geez, what has Boots come to.....Marks and Spencers are the same, Waterstones, Waitrose, Sainsburys..all job applications are done this way, online or over the phone... Sorry, but bring back the days of "Hello there, I was wondering if you had any jobs going?" "Why yes, dear, we do actually. Come and have a cup of tea and let's have a chat about it..." Oh, happy days! |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 12 Nov 09 - 10:50 AM Did you know that they're trying to cut the Postmen's wages by a THIRD? Meanwhile, Adam Crozier (spit!) is paying himself around £57,000 a WEEK. Good, huh? And....he was a football manager, brought into The Royal Mail by his great friend, 'Would you buy a used car from me? Alan Leighton'....who also awarded himself megabucks...and who now is something to do with Leeds Football Club. The two of them have wrecked The Royal Mail....they also spent £5 million pounds on calling it Consignia...and then...a few months later, realised what a terrible mistake they'd made, so they changed it back to The Royal Mail.... .....and meanwhile, out on the shop floor, the staff are being searched, paid crap wages, not even given a cuppa after a 6 hour shift... The days of The Greedy Ones are numbered...because the anger on that bus was just a tiny smidgeon of what's going on around the country... |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: manitas_at_work Date: 12 Nov 09 - 10:52 AM I'm glad they're searching the Royal Mail staff - I've had stuff nicked by them. The police installed cameras and got the bugger and that was before Adam Crozier took over so you can't blame him. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: SINSULL Date: 12 Nov 09 - 10:53 AM Appears to be legal: http://www.insight-security.com/pdfs/pirssm2.pdf You live in a world where trust has become a thing of the past. I don't. I sleep well at night, place nicely with others (usually) and never run with scissors. Is anyone in all of Britain happy, unabused or at least safe? Sometimes when I read these threads I wonder. Micca is always smiling but I think he drinks a lot. Jacqui is no longer a real Brit. Neither is TRUBRIT. A real conundrum. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: manitas_at_work Date: 12 Nov 09 - 11:08 AM It's just the British way to moan. Think of some of our comedy heroes - Tony Hancock, Victor Meldrew, Albert and Harold Steptoe, Alf Garnett - all of them railing against the Fates. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: GREEN WELLIES Date: 12 Nov 09 - 11:37 AM Yes Lizzie, lets bring back trust. I'd be the first to sign up. To follow on from my experience with the customer from hell at my stables, the vacancy was then take up by an old friend who used to keep her horse with us years ago. She had an accident with her new horse and ended up in hospital. After a while the sick pay dried up and to cut a long story short (sure you've all had more than enough horse 'tails'! for now) she left the yard owing me over £1,000. I had no proof that I had paid for her vet, feed, hay, farrier, it was all cash and of course she promised to pay me back. She was having a hard time, no money, injured etc. I was an old friend I helped her out - I TRUSTED her !!! And dont think I havent tried to get the money back - I have. One instance was a complete stranger, the second was an old friend. Some may say I'm just not a very good judge of character, my friends say my biggest downfall is that I always see the good in people, and look where its got me. And you wonder why I dont trust people. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 12 Nov 09 - 11:46 AM Lizzie, I'm afraid I tend to err barely even skim your posts as they are so fulsome so to speak - but without wishing to attack other posters, I think Gervase has a point.. Unfortunately however (IMO) it's your extreme *style* that alienates people, rather than the actual *content* of your posts. It comes over like extreme evangelism, and while I appreciate passion, it's simply too much too ingest! And others react to that. Honestly if you were a religious zealot, I'd give you NO time at all, but you obviously care strongly about things I care about too. So I personally also sympathise with some of what you say, if not with the way in which you tend to say it... :) In this instance, if Boots are busy peering down peoples trousers I think that, that to me, sounds a bit much too. Big orgs. like Boots essentially have power over people that need jobs. It's an employers market out there today, so there will be an increased danger of big employers in particular, being more free to abuse their power over a needy workforce - which shouldn't in my humble be summarily dismissed as "well you don't have to work there if you don't want to have people poking down your pants". As Gargoyle rightly intimates, Unions were created to correct the longstanding imbalance of power between the ickle worker, and the great big boss man. In times when the employee is less valuable, the Union becomes even more so. But I'd like to hear more about it, and certainly hear Boot's side of the story if poss. Meanwhile, I flagged this up elsewhere for you: Liberty - Protecting Civil Liberties, Promoting Human Rights Join up and connect with others who DO actually make a difference to the world we all share. Your passionate energy is but meaningless wasted breath otherwise! Take those fighting words and bloody well put them into action!!! ;-) x |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: SINSULL Date: 12 Nov 09 - 11:51 AM Green Wellies - a contract and receipts are basic to running a business. Lizzie - the latest ad for postal worker jobs shows a full time salary (after a year of part time) at about $24,000/year. 40+ paid days off. Not bad for an 18 year old. No figures on union contract increases. US jobs give one week of paid vacation (sometimes two)for the first year plus about 10 paid holidays. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: GREEN WELLIES Date: 12 Nov 09 - 12:01 PM Sinsull, We have contracts. And an accountant etc. The second instance was an arrangement between 'friends' I didn't think I needed to keep proof that I'd helped a friend. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Folkiedave Date: 12 Nov 09 - 03:28 PM Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Crow Sister - PM Date: 12 Nov 09 - 11:46 AM I did write much the same thing in the post below. I wonder if writing it twice will make much difference. Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Folkiedave - PM Date: 10 Nov 09 - 06:45 PM |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Gervase Date: 12 Nov 09 - 05:01 PM Is anyone in all of Britain happy, unabused or at least safe? Me. But I live in Wales, so that probably doesn't count. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Lizzie Cornish 1 Date: 12 Nov 09 - 05:39 PM I can blame Adam Crozier for so many things, you'd not believe it! Crow Sister, my words have never been wasted. It is precisely because I write as I do that my little crowd of followers love to follow me. I get more people to look things up, think about things, or sit there with their mouths open in anger, than many.... That's what I do....that's where my words go, to the hearts and minds of others, where ideas are taken up, or the aggression to 'prove me wrong' becomes so strong that more than a few things start to happen, for the good, because of it. I've known it for years...watched it over and over. For years they have insisted I write as they want me to, I never will. My Right to Write belongs to me, and to no-one else, other than one man on here who has fought so hard to give that Right back to me, for which I will always be grateful. If all employers believed in Rights, as that man does, then my goodness, what a happy workforce there would be in this world. Ah, Wales counts, Gervase! Most definitely. |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies) Date: 12 Nov 09 - 05:54 PM "I did write much the same thing in the post below. I wonder if writing it twice will make much difference." Sowry Dave! I'll be sure and double check that I haven't echoed prior sentiments in future threads... ;-) |
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Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right? From: Folkiedave Date: 12 Nov 09 - 06:04 PM No problem, Crow Sister. It can be awkward to read through a thread, no-one knows better than me :-) Obviously from the post just below yours Lizzie is perfectly happy in her world with her band of followers. Great. Nothing to argue with there. I am sure she is correct. |
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