Searching Staff....Is this right?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 10:51 AM

tho she might have started out with best of intentions.

I believe she had an agenda - chunks of which has been followed by the Labour Party since 1997.

Whether we should call these the best of intentions for the majority of the people is a matter of debate. They were certainly of benefit for some. The ones who lost their jobs as unemployment went up to 3 million and benefits were cut might not have agreed.

And well-paid jobs disappeared and were replaced by Macjobs.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 11:33 AM

Sorry folks, but employers who don't show their staff loyalty, don't look after them and don't give a toss about them, apart from how much bloody money they bring in, deserve all they get.

To expect someone to work for 6 hours without giving them a free cup of tea is just beyond my way of thinking. Geez, it's like someone's cloned Scrooge and we're all now living inside A Christmas Carol!

The people who think it's OK to work 6 hours without a break are the very ones who are encouraging this to happen. It's shit, basically, as is treating ALL your staff as if they're stealing from you.

Start giving them bonuses for a job well done, recognise what they do, thank them for their hard work, let them feel they are as much a part of the team as you are and remember that *without* them, you'd be up Shit Alley....and *then* you may start to have a truly wonderful company on your hands, where happiness reigns, alongside the Kerching Kings.

I mean....would you invite someone round to your house, make them stand up the entire time and then not even offer them a cup of tea...for SIX hours?????

Just because the crappy lawmakers have made the crappy law does NOT make it RIGHT.

It's WRONG, plain and simple.

And perverts who want to search their staff, or watch their staff searching themselves should be sent up to Jupiter on a one way ticket!

And pay people a bloody decent wage too!!!!!!


Yeesh!


I've been reading Duncan Bannatyne's book, he of Dragon's Den...and he once went balistic because one of his staff had....wait for it.....stolen a boiled egg from the kitchen!


Jaysus, Maria and Joebottles! I mean??????????????????

He searched high and low for it and for the offending Egg Eater, but to no avail...and then someone told him to calm down and get back to what he did best.


And now Dave, you can go out, buy the book, read it through, then tell me how wrong I am...OR...you can sit and puzzle those words I set earlier, for a little longer until you work out the correct order!


STAFF MATTER!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 11:52 AM

I'm sorry Lizzie, but I think you may not have noticed that when you signed onto Mudcat that anyone starting a thread that causes dissent or is responsible for said dissent must submit to me for a full body cavity strip search. I have you scheduled for 4 PM this afternoon, Mudcat time.

Now although I notice that others are causing dissent here, like Folkiedave, they are not subject to this rule.........mainly because I don't give two shits about seeing Folkiedave nekkid. Matter of fact, I want to avoid that at all costs.........

See you at 4


Spaw

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Big Mick
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 12:06 PM

Spaw, that looks suspiciously like work, and the antithesis of what a partner in LFPS should be involved with. Because we are such good friends and partners, and because I care about your standing in the firm (but not in the biblical sense, i'm just sayin') I am going to assist you with this inspection. That way Swanno can't point a finger at you alone, and we will have him outvoted at the next bored meeting. Don't thank me. See you at 4:00.

Mick

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 12:18 PM

Lizzie I know that all people matter. I have been a trade union member all my life since my first job at the age of 19. I have represented staff at all levels. I was elected chair of my trade union branch (NATFHE as it was) when the whole of Further Education was going through a huge and damaging re-organisation. I stayed in that post for four years.

I do know that if staff are badly done by, a trade union can help. I also know that trade unions have won thousands of legal cases over the years.

Now instead of ranting on here, what have you done about advising that friend of yours who may have been subject to an illegal search?
You can rant on here all you like - but I would have thought rather than do that you would be better off listening to other people's advice and passing that on to the young people about what has happened to them.

Generally speaking the nearest branches of Thompson's solicitors can help. And Thompsons never act for employers as far as I know.

The nearest one to you is in Exeter. Brittany House, New North Road, Exeter, EX4 4EP Telephone: [phone]. Speak to Gavin Roberts.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 12:22 PM

And Spaw. I am deeply hurt by the fact that you don't want to see me naked.

No-one wants to see me naked. People used to want to see me naked all the time at one time. And now they don't.

What is the country coming to? Don't you realise PEOPLE ARE SENSITIVE?


YEEESH :-)))) O)) (((( __ :::: !!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 12:38 PM

"I mean....would you invite someone round to your house, make them stand up the entire time and then not even offer them a cup of tea...for SIX hours?????"

Many employers will provide their staff with a chair so they can sit down if it's appropriate to their duties, and there will be a kettle for making a cup of tea, even if these things are not explicitly enshrined within employment law. In many work environments you don't need a specified break period in which to have a cup of tea. People put the kettle on. They drink tea. They carry on working. A six hour shift is really not that long.


In any case, I didn't think we were talking about people on social visits, I thought we were talking about going to work: I wouldn't invite someone into my home and expect them to sell my belongings to my neighbours, either.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 12:51 PM

Well Dave, sadly I know of what you speak since I'm in the same situation............***sigh***...........BUT WAIT!.......Big Mick is going to be on hand at 4 as well and maybe he could check you out! Would that work for you?


Spaw

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 01:18 PM

sadly I know of what you speak since I'm in the same situation

You mean you were once "hunk of the month?"

I don't mention it a lot but I was once on Page Three of the "Sun". March 6th 1991, if you are able to check. Just think in March 2011 it will be the 20th anniversary.

Probably the only 'Catter to be in that position.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 03:49 PM

"I'm sorry Lizzie, but I think you may not have noticed that when you signed onto Mudcat that anyone starting a thread that causes dissent or is responsible for said dissent must submit to me for a full body cavity strip search. I have you scheduled for 4 PM this afternoon, Mudcat time. "


Cripes! I have about left 15 minutes to get there, Spaw........I'm on my way! Mick, put the kettle on....because trust me, I have very big cavities, so this could take some time and shock you both!    ;0)

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 04:16 PM

"Many employers will provide their staff with a chair so they can sit down if it's appropriate to their duties, and there will be a kettle for making a cup of tea, even if these things are not explicitly enshrined within employment law. In many work environments you don't need a specified break period in which to have a cup of tea. People put the kettle on. They drink tea. They carry on working. A six hour shift is really not that long."


Maybe you don't know what's going on out here in the 'real' world.

If you work in a shop, (not a supermarket till) you are not allowed to sit down. In many places now you are not even allowed to be behind the counter any longer. You are told not to even speak to one another whilst on the shop floor. You must be being seen to be 'busy ' at all times.

This goes from chemist shops to The National Trust and beyond.

In The National Trust you are constantly checked up on by idiotic Mystery Visitors who mark you out of 10 and report back to the Corporate Charity Chiefs about who is, and who isn't doing their job.
If you don't try and force extra fudge, biccies, bags etc on the poor unsuspecting customer, you are marked down. If you don't try and sell a bigger size, or make a linked sale, you are marked down. If you're daring to stand behind the counter or haven't a duster in your hand, or aren't blowing dust off the stock or constantly moving things round (only to the planned picture, mind)...or seen to be selling, selling, selling 24/7 then....you are marked down...

When I told The National Trust what they could do with their job, after they'd introduced 'staff training manuals' which took 3 months to fill in, and required us, at the end of each patronising chapter to answer even more patronising questions, such as 'How would you greet an elderly couple?' (B*gger off!)......'How would you greet a teacher with school children?' (B*gger off!)....'How would you.....?'
(B*gger off, b*gger off, b*gger off!)........

I mean....Hell, do they think that's what we'd answer??????????

Do they think that we're all so bloody stooooopid that we can't even talk to customers in the correct manner????

When I was told that it was *compulsory* to fill these total 'waste of money' books in, I replied that only dying is compulsory in my life...and handed in my notice, because I was also told that if I refused to do it, then the entire team and manager would be marked down....and *that* is emotional blackmail..


Sooooooooo, I wrote to Fiona Reynolds, the head of the NT. I told her that the Coporate Crap Guys were infiltrating something that I loved...and therefore I could no longer work for them. I told her about the terrible stress that bloody Mystery Visitors cause to staff, because suddenly all customers turn into spies...I asked her who checked up on her...and did she have Mystery Visitors a-calling to her office?   I asked her how much these manuals cost, because they were massive and every single member of staff had to have one in the retail section, possibly the rest of the NT too.

On the back of our bathroom door was a list...from the area manager, saying how we all had to sell, sell, sell, upsell to the customers every sale. How we had to buy the cheapest loo rolls, tea, coffee, etc...How managers had to cut back on staff hours wherever possible...

That's great isn't it! Cut back our hours, whilst telling us to work harder and harder and harder...

Well, sod that for a game of Charities!

Strangely, Fiona never came back about the cost of these manuals...she never mentioned the Corporate Crap Guys...and whilst the NT is now starting to make some people redundant, the great news is that they've decided to bring out a brand new name for the NT.

Yup, they're going to call it....wait for it, people.....they're going to call it....

National Trust

!!!!

See that? They've dropped the 'The'
Cool, huh?

The er.......'National Trust' is now going to re-brand itself as er...'National Trust' changing all it's headings, on everything...and it gets better, because they're also having the new catchy logo done in their very own font!   

Yes, you couldn't make it up, could you!

Get rid of the staff, change the name...er..change? Spend a bloody fortune on the crappiest idea since bailing out banks....and don't worry about explaining why you're spending money that's bequeathed to you by people who think they're saving the heritage of this country, when they're actually saving the jobs of the dingbats who work up in Swindon, who decide on these appalling things!

Geez!

I had a dingbat in once, from Swindon...and he told me merrily how he came from Sidmouth originally, but now worked up at the NT headquarters in Swindon...

"Ah, then you know about these training manuals' I said...

He looked bewildered...

I filled him in.... ;0)

Two days later, the Slimey Sidmothian Squirt sent an email to my manager saying he'd never been so verbally attacked in any shop before. Ha! This was because I'd dared to tell him that those in HQ had lost sight of what the NT was about..what it stood for, how much it meant to so many people...and they'd become like double glazing salesman, forcing us to sell, sell, sell, whilst not listening to us about how our customers hated it..how it drove them away..I got passionate, not abusive, telling him I was giving up a job I loved, because I could not work for people for whom I have no respect...and I waved my hands around in exasperation...and passion....but he was one of The Dingbats, with a capital THE...and The National Trust...sorry...'National Trust' is now, sadly in their hands...

Millions will now be spent on stupid ideas, whilst staff become more stressed and more angry over how they are being treated...and it's happening all over..in so many places...

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 04:53 PM

The nice people in the National Trust shop down the road from me seem happy enough.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:00 PM

Yes, I'm sure they do.   

Hopefully, they'll continue to smile, because the shops most at risk are the ones not in the country houses, as the high street ones cost them money in rent and rates. The poorly performing ones already have the axe being moved into place above them.....just in case it's needed.

The National Trust staff are always very professional. I was too. They are also intelligent people, and therefore having to fill in 'Hello' style multiple choice questions in idiotic manuals rankles...None of the staff where I worked wanted to do those books, not one, but they buckled because they wanted to keep their jobs.

I knew that my job had already 'gone' in my head, because I will never give in to Corporate Crap, let alone be the carrier of it to others.

We all think and feel differently...

I too would have appeared very 'happy' to the customers that I served. (apart from The Dingbat, who got it with both barrels blaring)

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:11 PM

I'm not sure which real world you don't think I live in, Lizzie, but I do work for a living. And I have in my time done my share of pub and retail work. When you describe the focus on sales, it sounds to me like the NT is having to do what lots of people are having to do in the current economic environment - maximise their profits in order to ensure survival, especially if it's the high street shops that are most at risk. Can you really fault them from trying to maximise the return on the business?

The focus on mystery shoppers and on maximising POS items isn't really new: when I was a student and worked in a clothing shop (part of a chain), we were expected to try and sell an average of three items per transaction, and if we didn't, our store got marked down. If we did, we got a higher staff discount that week. We also got judged on our customer care by mystery shoppers and visits from regional managers. I'm talking about the 80s now - so it sounds to me like the NT has realised that economic survival means adopting successful models from the commercial retail industry. Surely this is a good thing in the long run? After all, it's all those donations and subscriptions that are being protected and maximised if the retail end of the business is thriving. And staff have to be trained in customer care to ensure an equal level of service across the chain, which is presumably what your training manual was for.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:27 PM

One for Rapaire here....

Boots the Chemist also used to be a lending library, once upon a time...a long while ago...and every shop had a library upstairs with the Boots logo on their books.

I know. I used to visit them with my Mum...and I still have a few of those books to this day, not stolen I hasten to add, but sold off when they closed their libraries down.

The Lending Libraries

In Westminster Abbey

Let me take this other glove off
As the vox humana swells,
And the beauteous fields of Eden
Bask beneath the Abbey bells.
Here, where England's statesmen lie,
Listen to a lady's cry.

Gracious Lord, oh bomb the Germans.
Spare their women for Thy Sake,
And if that is not too easy
We will pardon Thy Mistake.
But, gracious Lord, whate'er shall be,
Don't let anyone bomb me.

Keep our Empire undismembered
Guide our Forces by Thy Hand,
Gallant blacks from far Jamaica,
Honduras and Togoland;
Protect them Lord in all their fights,
And, even more, protect the whites.

Think of what our Nation stands for,
Books from Boots and country lanes,
Free speech, free passes, class distinction,
Democracy and proper drains.
Lord, put beneath Thy special care
One-eighty-nine Cadogan Square.

Although dear Lord I am a sinner,
I have done no major crime;
Now I'll come to Evening Service
Whensoever I have the time.
So, Lord, reserve for me a crown.
And do not let my shares go down.

I will labour for Thy Kingdom,
Help our lads to win the war,
Send white flowers to the cowards
Join the Women's Army Corps,
Then wash the Steps around Thy Throne
In the Eternal Safety Zone.

Now I feel a little better,
What a treat to hear Thy word,
Where the bones of leading statesmen,
Have so often been interr'd.
And now, dear Lord, I cannot wait
Because I have a luncheon date.

        -- John Betjeman

Jessie Boot

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:33 PM

"Can you really fault them from trying to maximise the return on the business?"


It isn't a business. It's a charity.   It is run by thousands of unpaid volunteers, as well as paid staff.

You do NOT spend millions on having your 'very own font' created and changing your logo, whilst saying that staff's hours are to be cut, or worse, their jobs go entirely.   People will always refer to The National Trust as THE National Trust, so what the f*ck is the point in spending millions to drop the 'The'???????

Answers on a postcard to

Loopily Ludicrous Ideas R Us
Selfishsville House
Swindon
Land of The Dingbats


Yes, I do fault them.

I also faulted The Royal Mail, when their bloody ex-football manager and his cronies decided to change their name to 'Consignia' at a cost of a mere £5 MILLION pounds....only to change it back months later when they realised what a stupid mistake they'd made.

Who are these twits, who implode the lives of others whilst sitting back raking in their Breathtaking Bastard Bonuses???????

Geesh!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:39 PM

"...when I was a student and worked in a clothing shop (part of a chain), we were expected to try and sell an average of three items per transaction, and if we didn't, our store got marked down. If we did, we got a higher staff discount that week. We also got judged on our customer care by mystery shoppers and visits from regional managers. I'm talking about the 80s now - so it sounds to me like the NT has realised that economic survival means adopting successful models from the commercial retail industry...."


Nowadays you don't get paid any bonuses, such as higher staff discounts. You get nowt...just sell, sell, sell...

Mystery shoppers stink.

Sidmouth NT shop regularly outsells Bath, York etc.....but we got marked down because we refused to upsell and harass customers...as a result our customers loved coming in to us.

Today I went into The Body Shop and was 'harrassed' half to boredom with 'But, if you spend just another £3...." yadda yadda yadda...and she wouldn't let up. Result? I won't go back there to be harassed again.

As a customer, treat me with respect and don't harass me to buy things.

As a member of staff..treat me with respect and don't harass me to harass customers, whom I treat with respect.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:47 PM

A bloody EXCELLENT EMPLOYER!

a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Rowntree_(philanthropist)">Joseph Rowntree


And all the Crooked Crooks should model themselves on Joseph, because then, and only then, would people be cared for again, by employers who value and appreciate those who work for them, making them their fortunes.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:50 PM

Oops!

JOSEPH ROWNTREE


..and don't forget to check out the 'external links' on there which take you to all the charitable trusts and foundations set up in his name..

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 06:10 PM

I'm surprised to see you advocating paternalism, Lizzie, given that you are normally so opposed to being controlled by the standards and conventions of others and the parameters set by employers. People like Rowntree and Cadbury exercised a profound degree of control over their employees, requiring that they adhere to strict codes of moral and social conduct. If you went to the pub, or didn't go to church, you could get sacked - and that's you and your family out of a home as well. Should employers have that level of control over their employees' personal lives?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 06:17 PM

Those following that link may care to note that this wonderful employer died in 1925. The days of diptheria, rickets, smallpox scarlet fever and other childhood diseases. And that his company became owned by Nestle's the swiss conglomerate. You know the one that sells powdered baby milk to the third world.

And as for the National Trust - not all that long ago you proudly told us they had headhunted your daughter. Clearly whilst they were a real bad employer you didn't mind your daughter being headhunted by them.

Subject: RE: BS: Home Education UK
From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 01 Oct 09 - 04:57 PM

......The other has been headhunted by The National Trust, who knew she had chosen to not take any 'school exams' but were very VERY happy to employ her despite that fact.

Now as people pointed out at the time - "head hunting" is usually a phrase used when rising young executives are hired. So what does your daughter do for the National Trust?

I know she's a mystery shopper!!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 06:41 PM

A bloody EXCELLENT EMPLOYER!

Lizzie, Joseph Rowntree was way ahead of his time in many ways. He set up things like pension schemes and built a Model Village for employees.

But and simply as an example, Rowntrees also refused to employ married women on a permanent basis believing that their place was in the home.

Now I don't criticise Rowntree for that and the many other paternalistic ideas left over from the Victorian era indeed the evidence was that Rowntrees were moving away from paternalism in the early part of the 20th century in some ways. After all it was the prevailing view at the time and we can't really criticise the past using our own present day values.

Which is why you have chosen a bad example. He was good of his time. That's all you can say.

Or like I suggested earlier in this thread you have a habit of posting things you don't understand properly, you haven't read properly or both.

I also feel obliged to point out in oder to help you that citing unreferenced Wikipedia examples is normally regarded as poor intellectual discipline. But you believe things you read in the Daily Mail so I suppose it is only to be expected.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Wesley S
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 10:57 PM

"Mystery shoppers stink."

Not all of them. When properly used they can show who your best employees are and also reveal weak spots on your staff. They've almost always produced good results whenever I've seen them used. I spent over 20 years in high end retail shops here in the US and I've seen how they work.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GUEST,EWH
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 03:15 AM

The fruit does not fall from the tree

Have her quit - if she has not been fired yet

And return to the all welcoming arms of mommy dearest

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 03:26 AM

Catspaw said:

I'm sorry Lizzie, but I think you may not have noticed that when you signed onto Mudcat that anyone starting a thread that causes dissent or is responsible for said dissent must submit to me for a full body cavity strip search.

Lizzie said:

Today I went into The Body Shop

Spaw - you see how seriously she was taking you? That's marvellous!!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 03:37 AM

I was going to post............... but after all that ranting........I cant be bothered !

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Fossil
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 04:15 AM

Hmm...OK have read all the thread. .

Is it Ok to search staff? Well, depressingly, you've probably had to sign an agreement that allows them to do it, so yes - if they want to, they can.

*Should* they do it, on a more-than-occasional basis? My view is, that unless management has a strong, nay very strong, reason to think said employee is stealing from the business, no they shouldn't.

Very regular staff searching indicates profound management insecurity, inefficient targeting - the general public contains more villains than ever the staff will throw up, assuming that you have been proper about your recruiting and have managed to weed out the more obviously light-fingered ones before they get near the sales floor.

What you need to do is build in a culture where people stealing from the firm is seen by those on the front-line as "stealing from us". "Us" meaning the business, of course.

It *can* be done, but only by management fostering a family-centred, concerned and employee-valuing culture within the business, something which almost no major retail chain even bothers with these days.

It is seen as too wimpy, anaemic and not macho enough for the lazy, pre-programmed, male-oriented, uncultured and stupid people (generally with worthless degrees) who inhabit British middle-management these days. Wonder why we're facing a total loss of manufacturing industry? Or why Britain will be the last, the very last country to climb out of the W-shaped depression?

Would the final British retail manager who believes in his or her staff, please turn off the lights as you leave?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 04:33 AM

Joseph Rowntree lived in a very different time to this, so the values he upheld would not be those of today...er..obviously.

However, when it comes to Mothers and Work, I actually think he had a point, because children need their mothers...and a mother's place IS with her children.

You only have to look at what is happening to so many children these days, as they grow older, in particular...where they seek love in gangs, large groups of so-called 'friends'...who sadly now take the place, for so many youngsters, of a large, caring family. (and yes, I *do* know that not *all* families are caring, before some on here come twittering on at me)

Just think, if everyone had adopted Joseph's attitude of feeling that mothers were best employed bringing up the next generation then we may not have the cold, desensitised bastards who are now runnig Corporate Crap Chains like Boots...and all the others, because they'd have been loved as children, small children...and they'd not have had a Corporate Edukashon System to steal their souls and make them feel that life is about nothing but tests, exams, tests, exams...and failure.

Ho hum!

Pass the Rowntree's Fruit Pastilles, please.......

(She sits back and waits for the Fearsome Feminists to Self-Combust in their Anti-Motherhood Rage!)

Also, the Corporate Bastards seized the opportunity of women going out to work en masse to realise that they now had TWO salaries to steal...TWO people to make feel guilty...and of course, how they POURED down the guilt on both parents for leaving their children with childminders all day long....because that's when parents started to replace LOVE with MATERIALISM....and the bottom started to fall out of the world as we knew it..........

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 04:40 AM

The National Trust were very good employers....that's why I worked for them...but things change when new people come in...and they now have way more than their fair share of the De-Sensitised Mercenary ones, who's lives revolve around profit, profit, profit...

Tell me, how much do you think it's going to cost to have a font especially designed for them and them alone? How many millions are they going to happily pass over (of other people's money) in order that they can be groovy and 're-logo'?   It's all Corporate Crap and I am so glad that I got out when I did...

If children are brought up by their mothers, and fathers, to feel loved, valued and treasured, then they will treat their fellow human beings with compassion, care and respect.

What is going on in so many corporate places is the exact opposite and some should ask themselves why and how this has happened.

If you treat people like shit, then the shit flies back in your face...and you richly deserve to be covered in it.

Treat your employees like gold....and you may well end up with far more than just a golden glow..

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 04:50 AM

So what has your last 2 posts got to do with Searching people Lizzie?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GUEST,EX
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:09 AM

I do not know where it went. But the California state labor law that was posted here included time at work for nursing mothers. Now THAT is nurturing. Lizzie why did some Ax that? Are their managment here that might not like in the UK? It is in the Netherlands also. Are there people afraid of Brussel Sprouts on this board?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:15 AM

Mothers staying at home to look after their children is a mother's choice. My wife chose to stay at home and bring the children up until they were at school.

But that wasn't what Rowntree was about Lizzie. He let them go when they got married. They didn't have any choice.

I could have sworn you were arguing for individual liberty and choice. Clearly I don't understand the contradictions in what you write. But then neither do you.

Now this thread drift has moved us away from the issue that you began with Lizzie.

What has happened to the young people who were searched? Have you given them any advice? Suggested they see a solicitor for example? I did give you the address of a specialist solicitor they could go to.

Don't you think we should be told? Otherwise people might think there was no real reason for the rant at the start of this thread other than the chance for you to spout off your own moral outrage and troll along merrily.

But again, nothing new there.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:22 AM

I will contribute, though I fear it will be unpopular.

If you are made aware of the conditions of your employment before you accept the position, ie staff will be subject to random searches etc, then dont complain if after starting, those condition are imposed. You knew before you started - you didnt have to take the job.

If practices are started after you have commenced employment and you are completely certain and have proof that they have been instigated without prior consultation, you have two choices - fight it (with the proper legal representation) or leave.

If you choose to fight be prepared to be extremely unpopular and for your worklife to made a misery. Is the fight worth it.

Whether this is morally wrong or right, is another matter.

Many employers have little or no respect for staff. They dont have to, there are many people out there who would willingly fill the vacancy, if someone decides to walk. Its not right but it is the world we live in - the real world.

We can all take the moral high-ground and say this is wrong and we shall rise up and fight the rich man - but dont forget while we're rising up and fighting, we still have to pay the mortgage and put food on the table and that and only that is the main concern of many people.

As for the retail world, my son is looking for a job in his gap year and talking to him and his friends, random searches of staff in high street shops are not uncommon. His opinion is, if I've nothing to hide its not a problem - live with it.

- As for tea breaks, sorry, I dont see what that has to do with staff searches.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:32 AM

I am with you Green Wellies.

My only concern on this issue, is whether the search was carried out correctly and according to the rules of the company. I can't see anybody being allowed to do a search on their own.

I would have thought the appropriate action if not involving the police, would have been 2 senior female staff searching the young lady and 2 senior male staff searching the male employee. Anything less than that should be taken up legally.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:06 AM

I would have thought the appropriate action if not involving the police, would have been 2 senior female staff searching the young lady and 2 senior male staff searching the male employee. Anything less than that should be taken up legally.

Absolutely Villan.

Shame about last night by the way! Could have done with your lads winning there!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:40 AM

Off topic

Are you a Blackburn fan then Dave?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:04 AM

Hi Villan I could be mistaken but aren't the only people allowed to search without permission, the Police? I have a feeling that even store detectives are only allowed to detain, but not search until the Police arrive? Could be wrong.

Most employers get round this by including it in their contract of empoyment, and by accepting such you are agreeing to be searched. My husband worked for years at MG at Longbridge and they were regularly searched on their way out.

Which reminds me of of the man who left each night with a wheelbarrow covered over with a sack. When the security lifted the sack there was nothing in the wheelbarrow. It was months before they realised that he was stealing wheelbarrows.

Oh come on!! the oldies are the best !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:09 AM

Ah the sad demise of Longbridge. Should never have been allowed to happen.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:48 AM

Thanks Villan, the sad thing is the story which is not told. The fact that hundreds have never found jobs, and the number of men who have comitted suicide since because they could not support their families. A number of these were known personally by my husband. Thats the real crime. Ooops off thread, sorry.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:54 AM

The law was altered recently to allow teachers to search.

Details here.

Customs officers for example also have such powers. If you refuse a customs officer permission to search you, they have to get a warrant. Even if they have found something in a suitcase for example which is the usual trigger.

But I wouldn't worry about it - Lizzie has forgotten this one now and is off on another troll.

To Villan off topic - Blade of course. Don't care who beats the Shammers.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 11:04 AM

Folkiedave, interesting when you actually think of the number of occasions when you could be searched, ie., schools, shops, airports, in public by the police. Public building/events, football etc. Never given it much thought before.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Rasener
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 01:45 PM

I bet Lizzie doesn't go abroad, becuase she would have to be searched at the airport and with these new xray things that can undress you.

Or maybe thats different as she want's to go on holiday. :-)

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 03:32 PM

I don't go abroad, Villan...

Personally, I think the world's gone raving nuts.

Dave, please stop issuing me orders, as I take no notice of them. Thank you.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Gervase
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 05:23 PM

Hmm - bit of bullying going on here?
FWIW, I'm inclined to agree with Lizzie. Yes, I know we live in a rufty-tufty world where dog must eat dog to survive, but we do appear to have forgotten as much as we've learned.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:20 PM

Dave, please stop issuing me orders, as I take no notice of them. Thank you.

I feel much the same when you tell me to stick my head up my arse.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 06:22 PM

The orders came first...go figure.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: HuwG
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 08:27 PM

Many, many years ago (in the early 1980s), my job required me to visit a steelworks. All people, including employees, leaving the site were required to allow their car boots (US = trunks) to be searched, to prevent people stealing scrap. I would have thought that this would be a cursory "Open up mate ... fine, off you go", but it was carried out by security guards who were reckoned to be rejected by the Prison Service as unsuitable sociopaths. They would occasionally and without obvious cause, insist on drivers removing every item from the boot, including spare wheels and toolkits. Of course, this could hold up a whole shift trying to leave the site at clocking-off time, for several minutes at a time.

To say the least, industrial relations at this works belonged in the days when they were building the pyramids, and sometimes, when industrial action took place or was threatened, the security guards had to be careful about walking alone down dark alleys at night.

Urban legend (possibly inspired by Johnny Cash's "One Piece at a Time") at the site had it that workers once put together a complete car from the bits and pieces in the scrap bins and drove it past the Neanderthals on the gate without raising suspicion.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 03:28 AM

My husband was leaving Rover, and his boot was searched. In the corner there was less than half a roll of masking tape. It was dirty, squashed and had obviously been tucked away in there for a very long time. But because he could not produce a receipt or account for its origin, they detained him in a locked office and questioned him for one and half hours.

As I said in an earlier post, he had agreed to this by signing his contract of employment. There was nothing he could do - not if he wanted to keep his job.

This was back in the 70's when the 'Unions Ruled'. Searching of employees is nothing new.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 03:35 AM

"Searching of employees is nothing new."

That does not make it right.

What happened to your husband was downright disgusting and deeply worrying.

They should not be allowed to have these contracts in the first place, and that is what should be being discussed by unions.

Who are these control freaks who distrust everyone and everything?

We are all becoming more and more controlled and it's happening because we are allowing it to happen.

Boots told me they have a guide book telling employees exactly what will happen during a search.

Again, that does not make it right.

It is morally wrong.

They have had the absolute shite put up them, as I've told them I'm going to the press about companies who force people to sign these contracts if they want to get the job...and people are 'forced', not physically, but mentally.

It is wrong.

It is way past time that the British Workforce stood up to bullying, control freak employers and told them exactly what to do with their 'searches'....

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 04:02 AM

100