Searching Staff....Is this right?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 04:44 AM

No, it isn't right.

We never used to live our lives this way. We don't have to now.
The more you let things 'happen' the more that will happen.

When did we all become so suspicious of each other? Who has driven this? What kind of suspicious minds are behind so much of what is happening in this world.

It is not right to search your staff....because if you have staff that you cannot trust then you've either hired the wrong staff in the first place, or you're treating them so bloody badly that they're intent on 'getting their own back'...and a lot of *that* is going on at the moment.

Never have employers treated their staff so shittily, and never have staff LET themselves be treated this way.

If you care for your workforce, then you have, in general, a very happy and loyal place, where profits come back to you far faster, because everyone feels a part of it all, everyone benefits.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 04:50 AM

Just tell me Lizzie, after you have told them what they can do with their searches and no doubt their job to boot, just what are you going to use to pay the mortgage and feed the family.

I'm not saying whether its wrong or right, but in the real world people need job to earn money to survive and that is their priority.

I also think we need to keep sight of the face that stealing is a crime, and if a company/shop is having a problem, and loosing money because of it, what do you say they should do about it.

Imagine, for just a moment Lizzie, that you are the owner of a small independent chemist, built up over say 20 years by your own hard slog, and every week you are 'loosing' £100 worth of cosmetics or even just a couple of bottles of 'designer' perfume.
What are YOU going to do - let it continue?

What happens if you did search someone and found stolen goods. That search is then justified, and has taken the suspecion away from innocent members of staff ......... so does that then make searching OK ?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 05:50 AM

No, it doesn't.

I used to WORK for that family chain, GW, and if you'd read my earlier posts you'd see that it was very different back then.

Trust has gone, because Loyalty has gone.

Again, if you look after your staff and see that without them your business cannot grow as you would like it to, then your staff will look after you too.

If you make them sign contracts stating that you have the right to body search them, bag search them, etc...then they are already feeling resentment towards that company.

Yes, people still carry on working for companies like this because they *have* to, to pay the bills etc...but already the employer is on a losing streak, because his workforce will not be giving of their best. Why should they?   They get crap wages, crap treatment, crap trust...

Everything has broken down...and it's broken down because of GREED!

It's broken down because of the bean counters who sit there and say..."Hey, if we stop giving our staff a paid break and a drink, then we can make even MORE disgusting profits to stash away!"

And THAT is what is so terribly wrong about all of this.

Last week, that store took in over £250,000....and yet they charge their staff for a cup of tea?????????

Oh, purleeeeeeeeeze!!!


Life was once about pleasure, not profit.   It was about great places to work, sincere and loyal workforces who loved where they worked...

But Scrooge came in and taught a whole new lesson...and unlike A Christmas Carol, we so far do not have a happy ending.

We are going back to the Days of Dickens.....

It all stinks.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:09 AM

Yes yes yes that's all very well, but you havnt answered my question - what would YOU do if you owned a small business - not a chain - and suspected a member of your staff was stealing.

How would you go about confirming your suspecions without upsetting your other loyal hardworking staff.

What measures would you take to confront the offender.

I dont want chapter and verse on the moral decline of the modern world - just your answers to the above questions, which are central to the title of this post.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:39 AM

You will get my reply in whatever way I choose to write it, GW.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: manitas_at_work
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:42 AM

Employers are different now but perhaps it' because the staff are different.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:50 AM

'We never used to live our lives this way. We don't have to now.'

Sorry Lizzy, but yes we did. I have given you an example above from 56 years ago. Ruth Archer then joined in to give further examples from many years back. If you have never come across such contracts & such systems before, I don't know where you can have been. Cloud=Cuckooland, perhaps? It has always been regarded as perfectly normal business practice. Taking the job & agreeing to the contract are voluntary; but it is no use moaning afterwards if the contract is then enforced. No system is perfect, and there have doubtless been employers whose security staff are unreasonable: but a complaint to management would make more sense if that is the case, as in some of the stories above, than your coming on here & sounding off about an experience a relative of yours happened to have recently, when, by all accounts, she herself wasn't even particularly worried by it, sensibly recognising it as in accordance with the contract she had voluntarily agreed to sign.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:53 AM

The staff have changed because of the terrible meaness of the employers, Manitas.


And if I suspected a member of my staff of stealing, then I would personally watch that person very carefully, from a distance, unobtrusively, until I had the evidence required.

I would certainly NOT expect ALL my staff to be body searched by me, randomly, because I know they would become very angry about that and the trust between us all would be broken forever.

As stated, I will not buy things from Boots any longer...and I have told them this. They are going to contact their HR departments in the West Country, to ensure that everything is done 'to the book'...but what they cannot, or rather, will not, acknowledge is that they should not be doing this in the first place.

We are living in a world which has become dominated by those who are unable to trust, who have fearful and suspcious natures and who are determined to bring in as many rules and tegulations at every turn to 'stop anything from happening'...

You will, sadly, always get people who steal, just as you will always get paedeophiles, wife-beaters, murderers...and treating everyone as if they are thieves or any of those aforementioned, will NOT stop it from happening, just make innocent person, who make up the vast majority, angry, fed up and pissed off....and THAT is when you get the rebellion..and in this case the employers have caused their own rebellion by staff stealing from their pennypinching, controlling, crap wages companies..

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 06:59 AM

No, we didn't.

I worked for Boots, I worked for most of the major department stores in London, I worked for private chemists, I worked in Harley Street, I worked in Upper Wimpole St, I worked in The National Trust, and in none of these places was I ever searched, or ever asked to sign a contract stating that I would allow it.

Some places did, but they were in the minority.

The minority is now becoming the majority and if you are happy to put up with that, well...you are contributing to the way things are going.

Staff, particularly those in the retail trade, are now treated like shite, in many places.

I recall John Tams saying on The Reckoning...."Who will tow the line...?"

Who indeed?

Because it seems to me that we have turned into a nation, into a world of yellow bellied twits who roll over and agree to anything and everything that bully boy Scrooge employers want to dish out...

SHEESH!!

Of course, I could tell you that the Edukashon System and the crazy political correctness have a great deal to do with this..but there are those on here who now feel it's their right to tell me to write my replies as 'they' feel fit....Well, I've been there, done that, been bullied half senseless with those who sought to control the way I write, whilst never ever demanding that they write the way I dictated.

Treating staff like shite is wrong. Period.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 07:03 AM

And whichever PC prat it was who decided to de-humanize staff by calling them 'Human Resources' needs a real kick up their de-sensitised backside, because to view PEOPLE as a RESOURCE is, quite frankly, shocking.

And if employers now have "Am I bovvered?" staff working for them, then they sooooo need to look to themselves for the reasons as to why.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 07:29 AM

The term "Human Resources" is nothing to do with "PC" (whatever that is). It is a term that came from business. And in reality, those companies and organisations who recognise that the humans who work for them are their most precious and valuable resource are probably going to benefit from that - as are the employees who will be valued and well treated.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 07:30 AM

And so you watch your staff as described, and you see said person put something into their pocket, say, what do you do then?

Ask them, politely, to take it out or empty their pockets,

They say NO,

What do you do then?

You cant touch them, because thats assault.

And YOU dont believe in searching them so,

What do you do?

You can of course call the police, but they would search them.......but you dont believe in that........ do you?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 07:31 AM

"And if I suspected a member of my staff of stealing, then I would personally watch that person very carefully, from a distance, unobtrusively, until I had the evidence required."

But what if you didn't know which staff member it was? In the case I cited, the manager of the pub didn't know which of us to suspect, which effectively put us all under suspicion. So what should he have done? Was he right to secretly install a camera which meant that we were all being watched without our knowledge, but that the culprit was eventually caught?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 08:10 AM

Sorry, if it was my company, then I'd be watching.

I would never expect all my staff to be treated as if they were potential thieves.

I would also be intelligent enough to know that whether I liked it or not, at some point, there would be people who worked for me who probably would steal....because such is life. It's not right, but it's life.

The reason that staff are perhaps stealing far more these days is that they're getting crap wages, whilst living in a world gone crazy...and they're often working for corporate companies whose owners write themselves out unbelievable bonuses, whilst not even letting their staff take a decent, paid tea-break.

If you wanna be mean, then you can expect to have meaness thrown back at you.

You will never stop thieving. You will never be able to trust every single person in your life...and most of us realise that. The Controlling Ones, want to be able to do that though, and so they treat EVERYONE as if they are thieves.

It's utterly wrong, in every way.

And ask yourselves WHY it never used to be this way, because as I stated above, it didn't.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 04:01 PM

You still didnt answer my question. What would you do when you see that person putting something into their pocket - if you're not going to search them - then what ?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:31 PM

Liz - you are a obviously a lovely lady. You, obviously have a delightful, dutiful, daughter that you cherish and protect.

Since you are reveared member of our Mudcat community...this is a cause that has moved foreward on the "to do" agenda.

To get to root of the matter - I have taken the liberty to make contacts regarding your concerns - unfortunatly, it is the weekend.

I anticipate a corporate response into this thread by Wednesday, November 11.

The location of her "Boots" store - and the hours of the "incident" will help.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 10:44 PM

"And ask yourselves WHY it never used to be this way, because as I stated above, it didn't. "

You can 'state' it as often as you like till you are blue in the face, Lizzie; but it won't alter the fact that, as I, & Ruth A, and others, have clearly demonstrated above, YES IT DID...

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish (too tired to log in)
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:56 AM

No, it didn't. I used to work for Boots, and I can assure you, it didn't. I don't care about other places this may have happened, the fact is that back then it was pretty unusual and now, it's become the norm...and it's *not* normal to want to search your staff.


Most staff of big corporate places are not treated well these days.

You lot obviously think that's an OK situation. I don't. And on that we will have to agree to disagree.   The more you let things go, the more shite will be rained down upon you. And it's the apathy and attitude that I see above that has brought this situation into being.

The Corporate Slave Masters have been doing many things wrong for a very long time. This is just one more thing.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:26 AM

Lizzie, you seem to think Boots is the ONLY employer in the country BECAUSE you used to work for them. Your logic is a constant joy & delight & entertainment. Even if your once-beloved-because-graced-by-your-presence Boots didn't do them way back then, staff searches were still a perfectly common practice 50+ years ago. That is the fact. If you don't like it — tough·titty. Keep your head buried in the sand then. & you know what they say about whence all sound emanates from those whose heads are buried in the sand...

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 12:18 AM

Refreshed to give Lizzie chance to come back before this drops off end...

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 04:05 AM

The fact that Boots and many other shops now do this IS relatively new, actually...(sticky out tongue smiley)....and it does NOT make it right that large factories, workplaces etc..used to do this 50 years back.

It was wrong then.

It's wrong now.

And the fact that it is being taken into the High Street shops is even more wrong.

If you don't trust me, don't employ me.
And if you don't trust me, why the f*c* would I want to work for you?

We are all becoming more and more controlled, untrusted and dictated to, and it's happening because WE are letting it happen by not taking a stand and shouting out...."EXCUSE ME, but P*SS OFF!"


Thank you.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 04:10 AM

I was told by my manager in The National Trust, that if I did not fill in their stooooopid,patronising, multiple choice answer manual, then the whole shop would be marked down and the manager would be seen as being not in control of the staff.

I said it was emotional blackmail by The National Trust's new Controlling Ones...and I resigned.

I do NOT want to work for people who treat me like an idiot, and don't even want to entertain the idea of listening to their staff.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 04:14 AM

And yes, I needed the money, but no, I won't sell my soul to any Corporate Devil, and would rather struggle on until I find a job that treats me half decently.

It is OUR fault that things have got this bad. WE are the staff and without us, they cannot run their shops, factories, businesses etc.....

Employment is a two way thing, and the employees seem to have forgotten that, letting patronising, uncaring, mean-spirited B*stard Employers treat them like shite.

When I go for an interview, I am also interviewing 'them'...and if they don't come up to my standards, I walk away....and struggle.

I will not surrender my pride, my intelligence, my self-respect or my soul to a Corporate Master...ever.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 04:16 AM

Charming, Lizzie — but if you knew me at all you would know that enjoining me to PISS OFF is the most certain way of ensuring that I shall do no such thing. So, to respond in kind, up yours, my dear... And your arguments remain FATUOUS. The employers who 'treat you like an idiot' appear to me to have a point.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 04:25 AM

'I will not surrender my pride, my intelligence??????????, my self-respect or my soul to a Corporate Master...ever.'

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 04:38 AM

OK, so here is THE way to treat your staff.

I worked in Harley Street, as a medical secretary/PA. That was my job, nothing more. But, the two men I worked for were very supportive, loyal, hard working, thoroughly decent people. Within weeks of starting work for them, I got married. They bought me crystal wine glasses. I was stunned.

I worked hard for them, VERY hard...and between the three of us we built up a highly excellent practice, giving life back to patients from around the world.

Pay rise time comes....

"So, what do you think we should pay you, Lizzie?"

"£100,000 and a company car, please!" joked I....and we all laughed together...

"Find out what Dr. so and so's secretary's getting, then pay yourself £1,000 more" said Dr. Spurrell, and Gareth nodded his head in agreement...

Again, I was a bit stunned....


When the Tube Strike was on, I slept on the settee in the Consulting Room, so I'd be there next day, as ever. When they went on holiday I decorated their Examination Room from top to bottom..free of charge...apart from the paint. They didn't know I'd done it until they got back...it wasn't in my job description, but...it needed doing, so I did it.

I did a thousand and one other things that weren't in my job description either. Why? Because they treated me with the utmost respect and kindness.

And that was returned to them a thousand fold.

They knew they could trust me with their lives, if needs be...and vice versa...and THAT is the ONLY foundation that you should want to build a successful business on, not one of control, meaness and distrust.

The current way of thinking stinks.

And thanks, mate...but I am well aware of my intelligence, despite the ridiculing that goes on here. I've ridden over a wall of nastiness...

...and just so's you know...I would never question YOUR intelligence publicly, despite it being more than a little obvious that er.......


Roll over and give in, if you must, but do NOT expect me to join you.

Lizzie - A Woman of Principle!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 06:38 AM

Sorry, Lizzie — some of my comments on your intelligence were unworthy & I do wish I hadn't said them.

Your above job description sounds a delight, & the practice were very lucky to get an employee as dedicated as you and you were lucky to get employers like them. But I don't exactly see its relevance to the topic of this thread. All one can say is that it would be nice if everyone were so loving and appreciative.

Unhappily, it isn't so. You know that there are, e.g., thieves, who will steal from their employers if they can, & from whom employers have not only the right but the duty (as Ruth A pointed out, in the interests of the honest majority) to protect themselves by any reasonable and honest means at their disposal.

Honestly now, Lizzie; starting again with a bit of goodwill between us, please; and bringing that intelligence of yours to the question — how can you fault what I have just said?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 12:23 PM

I accept your kinder words, and thank you.

However, the way forward is to bin the Gross Suspicion that has taken so many things over, and start going back to Honourable Trust.

If you don't want staff to steal from you, then you treat them as I was treated, with respect.

Respect should start at school. And it should start with teachers respecting children, as much as the other way around. We live in a shattered society at present, and it is way past time to start putting those pieces back together.

Boots, or anyone else, can do it by saying to their employees that they are all entitled to a 15 minute paid tea break, with tea, coffee etc, paid for by the company. The amount of goodwill that will bring would be enormous, as would Boots, or anyone else, stating that they are no longer carrying out searches on their staff, because they have decided to make their staff partners in the firm, just as John Lewis/Waitrose do...and therefore, if stealing happens, the staff are actually stealing their own profits.

You need to look at why people are stealing more than before. And when you look you will see that many employees feel hard done by, working for minimum wage, under shite conditions, whilst those at the top get maximum profits and a life of luxury.

After all, it was cups of tea that won the war, you know. :0) They can do an awful lot for business relations too.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GUEST,Dr. Fraud
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 01:00 PM

Re: I will not surrender my pride, my intelligence, my self-respect or my soul to a Corporate Master...ever.

Ahhh. MizLiz...your rage then stems from the disappointment in finding that you raised a child who has compromised "your ideals."

Let go, and let live.

They are not you.

In France - anyone may be questioned at anytime - and called to account - even the president.

In Iran - we do not worry about theft, or other social problems. Our people have instilled the higher moral code that you so desperately wish from your western society.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 03:50 PM

Cups of tea keep me going — I couldn't agree more about their overwhelming importance. Trust, partnerships, goodwill — they all have their place in the commonweal indeed. But unhappily there always does remain an intransigent hard core who are just not honest and not trustworthy [I have no religion; but one thing I do believe, in a non-doctrinal sense, is the existence of what I can only summarise by the term Original Sin].

So, now: in all sobriety and all honesty — what is to be done about them if they are not to louse up everything for the rest of us?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 08 Nov 09 - 05:18 PM

So, to get back to my question, what do you do when you see a member of staff puting your property into their pocket if you do not agree with searching your staff.

Its not a trick question ............. honestly. Simple answer will do.

Lizzie - woman of principle..........or Lizzie - woman who doesnt answer simple questions directly related to the thread subject.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 06:48 AM

To get to root of the matter - I have taken the liberty to make contacts regarding your concerns - unfortunatly, it is the weekend.

I anticipate a corporate response into this thread by Wednesday, November 11.

The location of her "Boots" store - and the hours of the "incident" will help.

Lizzie has clearly forgotten to assist you here, since she has posted six times and not bothered. It is no secret that Lizzie lives in the South-West.

But it happened to the daughter of a friend so it could be anywhere. Lizzie may decide to help get an answer or not. My advice is not to hold your breathe.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GUEST,Mike
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 08:26 AM

I would not say no to a full Body search when I left the office of an evening providing the person who did the search was female and well proportioned and enjoyed it as has much as I did.

What I dislike is the change from Personnel Department to Human Resources Department that most companies have adopted now. I know that those of us at the bottom of the ladder are, to the bosses, just a load of cattle but do they have to make it so obvious.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 09:01 AM

What I dislike is the change from Personnel Department to Human Resources Department that most companies have adopted now. I know that those of us at the bottom of the ladder are, to the bosses, just a load of cattle but do they have to make it so obvious.

So you think "Human" is not as good as "Personnel"?

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 09:08 AM

I have written to Boots with the following note -

Hello

I am very alarmed at a story running on a web discussion group that your company is mistreating your young employees. The full post is here -

http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=124791&messages=133#2761939

but the gist is that staff are being illegally searched and denied their rights in terms of proper breaks and facilities.

I hope you understand that if this type of thing does go on oin your company you will loose not only my trade but that of countless others.

I look forward to your prompt response.

Regards

David


Hopefully we will get their side of the story and decide for ourselves. I will post the reply when I get it.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 09 Nov 09 - 09:31 AM

Be interested to see what they have to say, especially as they are now advertising for temporary Christmas staff. Positions which are usually filled by younsters and students home from Uni for the holidays.

Ripe for explotation - IF that is indeed what is happening.

I, for one, shall look forward to their side of the story, as my gap-year son has just applied to our local branch.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 03:33 AM

refresh

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 03:15 PM

Very prompt respose from Boot customer service - Copy below.

I'd like to offer you my reassurances that whilst we do search our store colleagues at no time do we undertake strip searches. All our colleagues from both our stores and our support offices grant us the 'right of search' when they accept our terms and conditions of employment. We fully appreciate that searches are always very sensitive our teams follow guidelines and ensure that the dignity and feelings of the individual they are searching is respected.

Before searching, we always ask the colleague first if they have any objections to being searched and we do arrange for another appropriate colleague to be present at the time. Where possible we try to ensure that someone of the same sex carries out the search and at no time is the individual asked to remove garments other than outdoor clothing (coats, cardigans etc) and we take great care to not physically touch the person being searched.

Of course, if there is a specific incident that you feel we need to investigate I can of course engage the right team colleagues to make this happen.

In the meantime, I would like to thank you for your trust in and custom with Boots and to re-assure you that we will always strive to carry on our business in accordance with highest ethical standards.

Yours sincerely,

So, they say it is - in the contract, no strip searches, no physical touching, the right to have a collegue present and the right to object. Sounds very reasonable to me. They also offer the right to bring specific incidents to their attention for further investigation. Maybe rather than risking a libel writ against themselves or, worse still, the Mudcat the opening poster should consider getting an investigation underway to get the facts. After all, as pointed out, we should not assume guilt without proof - Even of Boots the Chemists!

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 03:41 PM

Er...I've also written to Boots....and I didn't say anything about a 'strip search'....but the young woman concerned was asked to hold the top of her trousers out, so they could see nothing was hidden down there. She was picked 'at random', not because of any suspicion.

I told Boots that this whole idea was beyond comprehension. They told me that they appreciated my points, many of which I've put on here, so I won't go into them again...and ended telling me that they would make sure that all staff concerned with these searches were properly instructed.

I wrote back, telling them they'd missed my point entirely..which was that these searches should not even be happening in the first place.

However, it would seem that apart from a very few on here, a very, very few, and one is, like me, a former employee of Boots the Chemist, most are on the side of the employers in this.

I'm amazed at this.....and saddened too, that relatively intelligent people cannot see that once you let mistrust take such a strong hold in your life, then you cannot live your life in a normal manner.

It is not normal to search staff like this. It never used to be done, never...and staff were treated with far more decency, loyalty and thought than they are now, in so many cases.

I truly do not understand those who can see no wrong in this situation..and it makes me feel that Orwellian Britain is producing Proles faster than I can keep up with it.

Yeesh!

Support the Corporate Billionaires and their Henchmen if you must, but *never* in a thousand years hope that I will ever give in to them.

Boots are wrong in treating their staff in this way and I, my friends too, all have decided not to shop there any longer, because WHY would we want to support a company who behaves in this manner...

8am to 2pm and no break, unless they take it out of your wages...Sheesh!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 03:45 PM

Meaness, Suspicion and Mistrust are NOT the foundations of a happy company, nor one I want to have anything to do with, but you guys 'shop away'....and leave Jesse Boot to turn over in his grave, up in Nottingahm...where his ancient tears will fall silently into the earth as his beloved company betray all that his business once stood for.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 05:34 PM

I've been speaking to colleagues and friends ref breaks and lunch. Nobody I know says part-time workers are treated the same as full time staff and why should they.

I work from 8.00am until 5.00pm and get breaks and my lunch. Why should someone working a fraction of that time get the same perks as me. You want the same breaks - do the same hours as the full time staff.

But back to the main point, what do you do Lizzie when you see someone stealing from you. Your hard earned property. You ask them to empty their pockets and they say 'no' - search them or let them walk away laughing.

Everybody go and shop at Lizzies, she'll let you fill your pockets and walk away no questions asked !!

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 05:57 PM

OK, Lizzie. So the workers have the right not be be treated with mistrust and suspicion. In other words Innocent until proven guilty? But the employers and managers are not be be afforded the same courtesy? The 'Italian billionaire bastard' is tried, sentenced and executed without even being in court? Mind you, from what I have seen on the news that is nothing new for the Italian justice system! I can see where you are coming from though and wokers rights are somehing I do feel passionately about.I am happy to say our views just differ somewhat on when the rot set in and agree that they need to be improved.

However, as to, It is not normal to search staff like this. It never used to be done, never...and staff were treated with far more decency, loyalty and thought than they are now, in so many cases.

I do not think I can accept that. What about the mill workers and miners who were subject to searches and all sorts of other intrusions? What about the factory and building site workers who were 'quarter-houred' for being 2 minutes late - and sacked the next time? What about the people who were, and still are, expected to work longer hours than they are paid for if they want to keep their jobs? This is not the 1800's I am talking about but the 1960s and 70s - I remember it well.

Once again I am afraid you are measuring all experiences by your cosy past and, yes, shop work was much nicer than the mills or mines or building sites. They still are. But don't try to tell us it is new and it did not happen in your chocolate box England.

Cheers

DeG

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Nov 09 - 06:45 PM

But don't try to tell us it is new and it did not happen in your chocolate box England.

Strong collective organisations can fight bastard employers. They don't always win, I never met an organisation that did. And it costs, and sometimes the hardships are hard to take. But you can win sometimes. And that's what counts.

People learnt that particular hard lesson about collectivism a century and a half ago.

But that takes organisation and effort and time. And organising and attending meetings (many of which are boring) and forming strong liaisons with like-minded people. And going to more meetings, and gathering support. And leafleting and nowadays using social networking organisations to draw attention to the cause. And going to more meetings. And cajoling and arguing your corner and writing letters (emails) and getting involved in organisations. It is hard work.

Folk Against Fascism did wonders gathering people together - it seemed within minutes. Because there were a lot of like-minded people who knew what to do. And were happy to use modern technology and were able to gather some high profile names around them. But it didn't just happen, it took emails and telephone calls and long-standing relationships built up over a period of time and so on. And given that initial impetus, was and is being worked upon.

Lizzie against the rest of the world is mainly a Mudcat phenomenon as far as I can see, and thus is unlikely to have much impact.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 03:27 AM

Ah the good old days, so unlike today, now let me recall, at the Austin (MG Rover):

If you were 3 minutes late you were docked 15 minutes pay,
If you were 5 minutes late you were docked 30 minutes pay,
If you were up to 10 minutes late you were not allowed to clock in, you had to go and find your foreman and ask if he needed you that day. Usually he said no and you were sent home without pay.
The shop floor were never paid for tea breaks or lunch.
On the track if you wanted to go to the toilet you had to find someone to take you place so that the track continued.
It was usual for men to p**s at the side of the track.
The only time off paid, apart from 4 weeks annual holidays, were funerals usually only mother, father, spouse or child and that was at the descretion of the foreman.

When was this, the early 1900's, no this was 1970's and 1980's. And some of these practices continued until the day it closed.

Sorry Lizzie I dont know what pink fluffy world you inhabit, but it sure as hell aint the the real one.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Gervase
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 04:39 AM

I do wonder that if Lizzie said two and two made four, whether certain posters on this thread wouldn't go out of their way to try to prove her wrong. The level of bullying is pretty unpleasant.
She's made a valid point. To search staff, especially pulling their clothes away to peer down their trousers, is a demeaning process. Yes, it's gone on for years in the manual sector, where the 'us and them' lines were drawn up back in the days when the good guys wore blue, the middle guys wore brown and the bad guys wore white, but it's a shame it's still going on.
It's also a shame that so many staff steal.
At root, it's a shame that labour relations in the UK are shot to shit, and that employees have so little pride and employers have so little respect.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: GREEN WELLIES
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 05:02 AM

Its not bullying its just making a point and backing it up with facts and evidence. Thats giving your point of view. Whats the point of a discussion forum if you cant do that.

Yes she's made a valid point, and all along I have asked one valid question, to which there has been no answer.

However the fact that there has been no reply, in itself speaks volumns (pardon the punn). Its incredibly rude to ignor someone when all they've done is ask a question.

There are too many people around who are prepared to light the blue touch paper and retire...............

Dont fret, I wont be posting again - life's too short.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 05:25 AM

Well I have never attacked Lizzie, only what she has written. Here is an example: Lizzie wrote in this thread:

From: Lizzie Cornish 1 - PM
Date: 04 Nov 09 - 05:47 PM

A bloody EXCELLENT EMPLOYER!

And all the Crooked Crooks should model themselves on Joseph, because then, and only then, would people be cared for again, by employers who value and appreciate those who work for them, making them their fortunes.

She was talking about Joseph Rowntree who died in 1925. And forced the women in his factory to leave his employment once they got married.

Now if pointing this out is bullying then I plead guilty.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 12:41 PM

I don't think it is bullying but the point is significant. If someone is searched, albeit in a legal and sympathetic manner (nothing said has indicated otherwise) the for some reason it becomes harrasment. If someone mentions anything to do with colour or creed it becomes racism. If anyone disagrees with another persons views it becomes bullying. We are breeding a culture of victims. If someone disagrees with us it is easier to shout 'bullying/racism/facism' than it is to try and prove our point logicaly.

Sad really.

DeG

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 04:37 PM

Thank you, Gervase. x


As to what I would do if my staff were stealing from me:

They wouldn't be stealing in the first place, because I'd damn well be looking after them, realising that without them I'd have no business. I would go out of my way to ensure they were decently paid, decently rewarded and felt a real part of the business, seeing bonuses come *their* way as much as mine.

I'm really quite sickened by those who've come down on the side of Boots about this, really sickened indeed.

GW, for your information, I do not answer questions unless I want to, no matter how much someone asks, and...I answer them in the way I choose to, not the way you may want me to.

I write as I write, think as I think, speak as I speak. I have never tried to stop anyone else from doing exactly the same.

Therefore, please treat me with respect and realise that I do not *have* to reply to you at all, nor write in the way you deem acceptable.

I am me, not you.



Again, as a former employee of Boots, who therefore knows far more than most on this thread about how we were all once treated, I would suggest to the new owner of Jessie Boots business that he ensures all his staff are treated in a correct and decent manner and NOT looked upon as potential thieves, but well-paid, potential bonus-earning staff, who deserve his respect, because without them he would not be able to survive.

Employment is a two-way thing and we seem to have forgotten that, on both sides.

Subject: RE: Searching Staff....Is this right?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Nov 09 - 06:44 PM

Employment is a two-way thing and we seem to have forgotten that, on both sides.

Thank you Lizzie - It is indeed a two way thing. Employers have rights as well as employees. There are a number of Employers who abuse those rights, that is taken as read. But there are also employess who take advantage as well. Until we realise that respect should be shown in both directions we will always get confrontations.

Maybe when emploers stop abusing their privelages employees will stop taking every advantage they can. Maybe when employess stop taking advantage employers will stop abusing them. Who will go first?

The most basic economic tenat is to fill unlimited wants with limited means. To fulfil that demand a balancing act of labour, capital and resources is required. No single one can work without the other.

DeG