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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Kevin W. Date: 30 Jun 18 - 09:24 AM I'm stupid, the tune is called "Shalom Aleichem". |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Kevin W. Date: 30 Jun 18 - 09:38 AM Sorry for posting three times, but here's a video that allows for easy comparison of the tune: Hewenu Shalom Alechem - Youtube Hevenu Shalom Alejchem - Tune Hevenu Shalom Alejchem - Info I wish I could find anything on the origin of this tune, or early recordigs of it, but no luck so far. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: Lighter Date: 30 Jun 18 - 11:36 AM > I may die out on the deep blue ocean, I may be shot by a big cannonball Ref (in pop terms) to WW1? (Cannonballs were obsolete by then, but there were plenty of submarines.) |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Karen Date: 30 Jun 18 - 12:40 PM I managed to surprise Kevin! I was expecting people would have heard of tis. I *think* it comes up in Robert Harwood's blog somewhere. I accept that we'll never know for sure if Kaufman lifted a trad song for his Charleston Cabin. But I'm fairly convinced he did, consciously or not, and that his Charleston Cabin, which was widely recorded, was in turn nicked for SJI. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Kevin W. Date: 30 Jun 18 - 01:04 PM That reminds me that I really need to buy a copy of Harwood's book. I found the following early text on his website which makes the cannonball confusion clear, it is indeed gambling house brawl in this version. "Old Time Gambler's Song" - St. James Infirmary in 1926. Lyrics to "Old Time Gambler's Song" This text was sent by Terence McKay to Robert Winslow Gordon in a letter dated April 5, 1926 Old Time Gambler's Song I dreamed I went down to St. James Infirmary Thought I saw my baby lying there; Laid out on a clean white table, So pale and yet so fair. If she's gone, let her go, God bless her, For she's mine wherever she may be; You may search this wide world over You'll never find another pal such as she I may die out on the ocean Be shot down in a gambling house brawl; But if you follow me to the end of my story You'll find a blonde was the cause of it all When I die just bury me in a box back suit, Blue shirt, roller hat, pair of shoes with toes so tall; Put whiskey in my coffin, deck of cards in my hand; Don't let them weep and wail, don't let them moan at all. Put marihuana in my coffin, Smoke it as you carry me along; Take even rolling crap shooters for pall bearers, Coke sniffers to sing my funeral song. Put a twenty dollar gold piece on my watch charm So the boys'll all know I'm standing pat; Put ice on my feet, for in that place where I'm going I won't even be cool with that. Just carve it on my tombstone In letters bold and black, "Here lies an old time gambler, Pray God won't you please bring him back!" From "Songs of the Cowboys" (1966) by Austin E. and Alta S. Fife. The references to marihuana and coke sniffers are interesting, looks like this bit was tamed down for the later commercially recorded versions. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Gerry Date: 01 Jul 18 - 12:10 AM Kevin, there's nothing Yiddish about Hevenu Shalom Aleichem – it's Hebrew, and Israeli. Although it appears that it actually traces back to a German cigarette advertisement where "Wir rauchen Salem Aleikum" ["We smoke (a brand of cigarette called) Salem Aleikum"] was sung to the tune now associated with Hevenu Shalom Aleichem. Type "Wir rauchen Salem Aleikum" into the internet (if you're interested) to trace this back. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Karen Date: 01 Jul 18 - 02:57 AM Many thanks Gerry. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Kevin W. Date: 01 Jul 18 - 04:44 AM Thank you very much for the clarification, Gerry. I first assumed that it was a Klezmer song because Karen's video was of a Klezmer band and it was the tune only without words. I couldn't find any recordings of the cigarette advertisement song, but searching for it led me to more recordings of the traditional words. Here's a website that has several recordings of the song to the tune that interests us: https://www.zemereshet.co.il/song.asp?id=3152&artist=1852 And here's a recording of the words to another (presumably the older) tune: https://www.zemereshet.co.il/song.asp?id=10987 And a quick google translation to English: According to Eliahu Hacohen, in a lecture entitled "The Book of My Childhood Poems," the source of the melody in an advertisement for "Salam Alikum" cigarettes in Germany by a Turkish band. A Russian presentation on the web gives the full story. Here is the translation of the subtitles by Uri Yaakobovitch: 1. "We brought Shalom Aleichem." Background of one song; 2. German orientalism; 3. Synagogues; 4. Industrial buildings; 5. "The Tobacco Mosque", Ynidze *; 6. Architecture and Nazism; 7. Turkish tobacco; 8. Photographs of three boxes of cigarettes "Salaam Aleikum"; 9. German advertisement for Salaam Aleikum; 10. German radio. All Germany hears the Fuhrer from the shelter; 11. We smoke "salam alikum" (3X). We smoke salaam, salaam, salam alikum; 12. Soviet dissidents, let's go south and north! Fear and terror for enemies! And that Golda Meir will lead us to the one-eyed war god Moshe Dayan; 13. Back to the commercial: Israir flight from Berlin to Israel. [*] The "Tobacco Mosque" in Binzedze was an Oriental cigarette factory established in the Jewish Dresden by Hugo Zietz. Eliahu Hacohen (born 1935) told the same lecture that learned the Hebrew song already in kindergarten. The words (in the first person only) with the appropriate rehearsals were found in Aya Ruppin's private notebook, where the songs around him were put in place around 1939. The melody was found in print in an American poem for Jewish soldiers in World War. The "Davar" newspaper documented the song "We brought Shalom Aleichem" in various contexts, the earliest ones: a demonstration against the Mandate authorities (24.12.1945), the absorption of illegal immigrants (June 10, 1946), a toddler's song to Tom (June 20, 1947) A new moshav in the Negev (24.3.1952), and for the first time in artistic performance - the Polytek Choir from Finland (31.3.1952). Additional Performance: Ahuva Zadok The Ran Singing Group Eartha Kitt Sabra Disco (Gali Atari, Tzruya Lahav, Riki Manor and Nava Baruchin) (1976) Sexta (also a disco style) The "Am Yisrael" group (first song in Rosary) Dancers and musicians from the Jerusalem Academy of Music and Dance greet the Taglit Birthright Israel delegation at Ben Gurion Airport (June 2018, video) See "We brought Shalom Aleichem" in another melody. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: Jim Carroll Date: 01 Jul 18 - 05:21 AM Just remembered ANOTHER SLANT TO THIS SONG Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Kevin W. Date: 01 Jul 18 - 05:49 AM Thanks for that one, Jim. That's the first time I've seen a version where the Sailor/Soldier has become a Rebel. However, the references to "flash girls" as the cause of death are still there. Here's another Irish recording that I have heard, "The Sailor Cut Down in his Prime" on "Sarah Makem: As I Roved Out (Musical Taditions (MTCD353-5)" and also on "Ulster's Flowery Vale (1969 ) BBC Radio Enterprises ?– REC 28M". It's a fairly standard version, much like the English "Sailor Cut Down" texts. Here's the transcription, taken from the booklet notes: https://www.mustrad.org.uk/articles/makem.htm 1 - 7 The Sailor Cut Down in his Prime (Roud 2, Laws Q26) Recorded by Michael O'Donnell, 1968 As I went a walking Down by the Royal Avenue Dark was the morning And cold was the day Who did I meet - Only one of my shipmates Wrapped in a blanket More colder than clay. He asked for a candle To light him to bed Also some flannel To tie round his head His poor head was aching His poor heart was breaking For he was a sailor Cut down in his prime. At the foot of the street You will see two girls standing Says the one to the other "Here comes a young man Here comes a young sailor Whose money we squandered Here comes a young sailor Cut down in his prime. " His poor aged father His poor aged mother Often they told him Of his past life Along with his flash girls His money they squandered Along with his flash girls That was his delight. So beat the drums o'er him And play the fife lively And sound the Dead March As we carry him along Lay him in the church yard Fire three volleys o'er him For he was a sailor Cut down in his prime. An extremely popular and widespread song throughout these islands and North America - in fact, almost two thirds of Roud's 355 entries are from the USA. There are only 8 Irish instances, accounting for just 4 singers - Mary Doran, Bill Cassidy, Tom Lenihan, and Sarah's is the only one available on CD. It's an old song, but doesn't appear in many broadsides (only 15), though it has been included in a few books - 154 to be exact! There are 106 sound recordings, and those by: Harry Brazil (MTCD345-7); Harry Holman (MTCD309-10); Bob Hart (MTCD301-2); Bill Ellson (MTCD320); Hobert Stallard (MTCD344); Texas Gladden (Rounder CD1500); Fred Jordan (VTD148CD); Johnny Doughty (TSCD662); Harry Upton (TSCD652); Viv Legg (VT153CD); Moses 'Clear Rock' Platt and James 'Ironhead' Baker (Rounder CD1821) remain available on CD. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: Richard Mellish Date: 01 Jul 18 - 06:30 AM One of the anomalies in some Gambler's Blues versions is the change from the singer (or the reported speaker in the bar) seeing the girl's body to making requests for his own funeral. That is much better handled in the Fess Williams version, first by the inclusion of a verse about the girl's funeral and then by starting the next verse "Now, when I die ...". Another of the anomalies is the juxtaposition of the girl being dead with the verse about her searching the wide world over. Some of the versions cited above make much better sense with words about searching the wide world over and not finding another like her. As with many folk songs, sometimes they make sense and sometimes they don't, but that seems not to have bothered the singers. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Kevin W. Date: 01 Jul 18 - 08:25 AM It really looks like St James Infirmary Blues is a (slightly incoherent) amalgam of elements from several songs. My thoughts on it: - The "Old Joe's Barrom" opening may have been inspired by "Tom Sherman's Barrom / The Cowboy's Lament". - The "St. James' Infirmary" verses about seeing his girl dying in the hospital may have come from Scarborough's "John Seley's Hospital" song (where the story makes more sense), or even from "The Bad Girls Lament / St. James Hospital", if we want to go back that far. - The "Let Her Go, God Bless Her" verse makes sense in the various jilted lover songs it shows up in, but not in "St James Infirmary Blues" where the girl is dead. It would make more sense if it was changed to "I may search this wide world over, but I'll never find another like she." but I've not seen it like that in any version of the blues. - The funeral requests are an exaggeration/extension of those found in "The Bad Girls Lament / Unfortunate Lad", they make sense, if the guy is going to kill himself because he lost his girl and boasting about his gangster status, or if he's dying from a disease he got from his girl. It's the sudden switch from the hospital scene to making his own funeral requests that leaves a gap in the story. Porter Grainger's "Dyin' Crapshooter's Blues" first appeared in 1927, if I'm correct, so that can't be the origin of the verses, probably it's the other way round. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Karen Date: 01 Jul 18 - 09:57 AM Richard Your point about the gender anomaly is similar to one made by A L Lloyd. Lloyd believes it arose because early songs had either one gender or the other. My explanation is based on the idea that the disease the girl died of is contagious. If she died of it, then so will he (Kevin also sees this). I also suspect that the recorded versions were cleaned up versions of live versions, which may have been more explicit. I also believe that the 'lock hospital' versions do have two deaths in, since these are late 19th century (or so the Bodleian seems to believe) and this was the era of Victorian Lock Hospital Building, institutions where women (not men) were detained compulsorily if believed to be prostitutes. When the character 'passes by' the lock hospital, it is 'code' for 'my partner has been detained under the Acts, she must have the disease, oh dear, I will have it too'. There is no hospital in the earliest known version, Buck's Lament. Hospitals appeared in the song, it seems to me, just when they were appearing in England and Ireland. Just my idea; I've no problems with people not accepting it. I agree that where the floating searching the world over verse is concerned, there are versions incorporating it that 'make more sense' on paper. I agree about the interpretation in the Fess Williams. If you listen to Armstrong's 'asides' in his 2nd, slower version, he is aware of the issue here. He says 'bragging' at one point and giggles. If you look at the Cab Calloway version as well, then the idea that some performers of this eventually decided he was a 'pimp', and not a very nice character, to deal with what they themselves felt to be a potential issue, or maybe because that was how they had understood it all the time, makes sense. Calloway is not singing this as 'himself' but as a character. Kevin: I don't think anybody is claiming that Porter Grainger invented this song from scratch (though he may well have composed the tune, and arrangement from scratch). I'm not. I'm just dead certain that Blind Willie McTell's version derives from one of the Porter Grainger ones and not the other way around. I am happy that he knew of the tradition and made use of it in a song contextualised for the prohibitionist roaring twenties, with its speakeasies and gangsters. For me, musically and in terms of the specific lyrics, Grainger's work has all the hallmarks of a Tin Pan Alley piece. It has more than one 'strain', the melody line doesn't sound at all folky, you get diminished chords in it etc. And it has the bluesy inflection that was all the rage at the time. Whereas St James' Infirmary seems to have been more of a dance tune initially. Fox Trot. I am quite happy that jazzy versions were in circulation in the early 20s and possibly a bit before. This is clear from Harwood's book. I am not sure off the top of my head whether he copyrighted it as an arrangement of a traditional song (which was permissible, hence somebody copyrighted the version of 12 days of Xmas), or as entirely original. If Harwood is right, Joe Primrose copyrighted 'St James Infirmary' as an original title, which is a bit of a cheek. But nobody could find any documentary evidence that the precise words 'St James Infirmary' had been used before. So Primrose & co won the battle, which was, Harwood says, more like a trademark battle. Another musician/arranger who doesn't get credit is Don Redman, about whom Harwood's blog will provide you with more information. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GaryG Date: 01 Jul 18 - 04:17 PM Concerning Pills of White Mercury by the Old Blind Dogs: In the line "Bad luck to the girlie that gied him the glim" could glim mean glengore? That seems to be a Scots term for syphilis. How about "Oh the mercury was beating, the limestone was reeking"? Could this refer to mercury poisoning causing a rapidly beating heart? I have no idea about the limestone reeking. Help is appreciated! |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: Lighter Date: 01 Jul 18 - 07:07 PM "Glim" was originally a slang term for a light, candle, lantern, or match. "Douse the glim" meant to extinguish the light. It seems to have been a pretty common expression throughout the 19th century. With a little clinical ingenuity, "glim" later also came to mean gonorrhea. |
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Subject: RE: Help: The Unfortunate Rake From: GUEST,Kevin W. Date: 02 Jul 18 - 04:56 AM Old Blind Dogs learned the song a recording of The Gaugers (The Fighting Scot, I think), by the way. Tom Spiers (I posted his solo version earlier in this thread) was a member of The Gaugers until the group disbanded following Peter Hall's death. Many people love the Dogs version, but few seem to know where they got that song. |
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