Thanks John, that set me looking, and I have it right now; at least with IE. MS in their usual wisdom have put the vital tickbox where it doesn't appear until you've pressed "delete", - which doesn't delete anything, but gives you more choices. "Preserve favourites" is the one. This of course means mudcat has to be a 'favourite'. I've never used favourites ever, I prefer to keep my internet shortcuts (and everything else) well away from where windows can delete them if it gets into a strop. But there's a first time for everything! FF will have to go back on hold.