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User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
GUEST,Allan Conn BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election (225* d) RE: BS: Politics: UK Labour leadership election 11 Aug 15


Teribus is right in that Fred's assertion that there was only two Jacobite Rebellions is simply wrong. These were the two rebellions where fighting took place on any scale on English soil but there were more than that. As well as the 1715 and 1745 rebellions there was the first Jacobite Rebellion of 1689 which as well as the conflict in Ireland included in Scotland the Battles of Killiecrankie, Dunkeld and Cromdale. Then there was the attempted French backed Jacobite invasion of Edinburgh in 1708 when the fleet was stopped in the Firth of Forth. Plus the Spanish attempted Jacobite invasion of 1719 which culminated in Battle of Glenshiel. So three big insurrections and two smaller ones which involved more foreign troops and didn't get so much of the ground but were all the same serious threats.

Teribus is correct in that the gvt was relatively lenient after the 1715 which was the largest of the rebellions so you can imagine how exasperated they were when the 45 broke out! Especially when you look at it in context. The rebellion didn't happen in peacetime. Britain was at war with France on the continent. The French encouraged the Prince because they wanted British troops to be withdrawn from the main conflict so it was in fact a new front in the main conflict. So one can kind of understand their frustrations but by modern standards the retribution after the conflict was unacceptable and would be regarded as serious war crimes - but whether they were so unusual for the time in question in the context I'm not so sure!

You do often see claims that the Highland Clearances etc were the direct consequence of this battle which doesn't stand up. Some of the people in charge on the ground in the weeks after Culloden acted in a genocidal manner but there was no actual carried out plan of genocide of the people as a whole! Or at least if there was then they weren't very good at it. In the decades after Culloden the population of the Gaelic speaking Highland areas went through the roof and there were, despite much emigration, far more people there by the early 19thC than there was in the mid 18thC. The population about doubled with no downturn until the famine of the 1840s. That is a whole century after the last Jacobite Rebellion.

What the gvt did was strip the chiefs of their heritable rights of jurisdiction etc but again as Teribus says these changes were already afoot. The idea that one person could have such power over his subservients couldn't sit with the modern Scotland (or wider UK) that was emerging. Other changes like seasonal migrations to the Lowlands had already become more common and one reason that a smallish Jacobite army was able to saunter into Edinburgh in the first place was because the Clan system as it had been had already started to break down in the peripheries. Arguably there was no Clan Campbell in the mid 18thC in the sense that were was 50 or a 100 years earlier and of course the Lowlands were no longer a militarised population.




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