Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafesj



User Name Thread Name Subject Posted
GUEST,Kevin W. Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 3 (135* d) RE: Origins: James Madison Carpenter- Child Ballads 3 12 Jul 18


It's just coincidence, but I've recently tried to noise reduce some of the Bell Duncan recordings from the Carpenter collection.

Here's my try on The Cruel Brother:
https://soundcloud.com/user-860765554/bell-duncan-the-cruel-brother-noise-reduce

The Cruel Brother - Recorded by James Madison Carpenter
from Bell Duncan of Lambhill, Inch, Aberdeenshire c.1934.

There is a cylinder recording of this song in the Carpenter Collection.
Of this cylinder two disc transfers were made. All the recordings contain the same
stanzas, so I've decided to use the recording that has the best audio quality
instead of including many near identical (and near unlistenable) recordings.

This version uses the burden and tune of "The Elfin Knight",
which Bell Duncan also sang.

There cam a man tae my bed side,
Ower the hills an far a-wa';
He wis askin me tae be his bride,
For the wind blows aye my plaid a-wa'.

My father he gae his consent,
Ower the hills an far a-wa,
And my mother she wis weel con-tent,
For the wind blaws aye my plaid a-wa'.

My sister said she was well pleased,
Ower the hills an far a-wa,
And my brother said she sud-na reesed,
For the wind blaws aye my plaid a-wa.

And here's The Twa Magicians:
https://soundcloud.com/user-860765554/bell-duncan-the-twa-magicians-noise-reduce

The Twa Magicians - Recorded by James Madison Carpenter
from Bell Duncan of Lambhill, Inch, Aberdeenshire c.1934.

She becam a girdle
And he becam a cake,
And a' things that she did become,
And ' he becam' her make.

And it's bide, lassie, bide,
And aye he bade her bide,
And be a brookie smith's wife,
And that'll lay yer pride.

She becam a duke, a duke,
Tae puddle in a peel,
An' he becam a drake, a drake,
Tae gie the duke a dreel.

And it's bide, lassie, bide,
And aye he bade her bide,
And be a brookie smith's wife,
And that'll lay yer pride.

And another coincidence, I just recently bought a copy of Deacon's book because I was interested in Clare's version of The Daemon Lover.

Here's John Clare's Cruel Brother:

1 As three maidens played at ball
Aye & the lily aye
There came three knights among them all
& the roseys sweet in mary

2 The first gay knight was cloathed in green (white)
Aye &c &c
& he asked one maid to be his queen
& &c

3 The next good knight was cloathed in white
& he asked the maid to be his bride

4 The next good [k]night was cloathed in red
& he asked the maid if she would wed

5 O you must ask my father dear
Likewise my mother that did me bare

6 & you must ask my lover John
Likewise my sisters every one

7 O I have asked your father dear
Likewise your mother that did you bear

8 O I have asked your brother John
Likewise your sisters every one

9 Her father gave her at the door
Her mother swooned upon the floor

10 Her father gave her at the stile
& her mother swoonded for her child

11 Her father gave her at the cross
& her brother helped her on the horse

12 He had a penknife long & sharp
& prickt his sister to the heart

13 Ride on ride on you fast good man
I think your bride looks pale & wan

14 Ride on ride on you next good man (knight)
I think your bride goes bleeding on

15 Ride on ride on you jolly bridegroom
I think your bride is almost dumb

16 She rode till she came to yonder hill
& there she lit & made her will

17 What will you leave your father dear
My wedding steed that brought me here

18 What will you give your mother dear
My wedding dress

19 That she may long upon the grief
& see she has a daughter less

20 What will you leave your sister ann
All I do wear on my right hand

21 What will you give your sister Jane
My cambric cap & gow nof green

22 What will you give your sister Sue
My wedding hat with ribbons blue

23 What will you give your brother Johns wife
Sorrow & trouble all her life

24 What will you give your brother Johns child
A father only a little wild

25 What will you give your brother John
The gallows mother to hang upon

Sources
Text given   Peterborough MS. B7 p. 34

Note to text: The words in brackets are those which Clare has deleted.


While we're at it, I can give you Clare's "Daemon Lover" as well, I recently typed it down:

Taken from my Mothers singing

1 Whos that under my window
That doth so sigh & moan
Is it my father dear
Or is it my brother John
Or is it my own true love
That from Scotland has newly come home.

2 It is not your father dear
It is not your brother John
But it is your own true love
That from Scotland has newly come home
James Ellice is my name you know
Altho youve lost the vow

3 Im new come from the salt salt sea
& its all for the sake of loving thee
I might have had a kings daughter
& she would have married me
& have forgone her golden crown
& all for the sake of thee

4 If you might have had a kings daughter
You none were much to blame
I would not for a thousand pound
My husband should hear the same

5 My husband is a carpenter
A ship carpenter is he
& by him Ive a little son
Or love Id go with thee

6 If youll forsake your husband dear
Your little son also
I will your former vows forgive
If you will with me go

7 If I forsake my husband dear
My little son also
What have you to maintain me on
If with you I should go

8 Ive seven ships sails on the seas
& one of them brought me to land
With carpenters & mariners
& all at your command

9 A pair of slippers you shall have
All of the beaten gold
With rich velvet they shall be lined
To keep your feet from cold

10 When he did tell her these fine tales
Her heart he gan to win
& cause he was drest like a man
She up & let him in

11 A pair of slippers she put on
They shined like beaten gold

12 She had not sailed on the sea
Past days two or three
Before she gan to weep & wail
& wept most bitterly

13 Did you weep for gold he said
Or do you weep for fee
Or do you weep for any man
You do love better than me

14 O I dont weep for gold she said
Nor I dont weep for fee
But I do weep for my little son
That cries for his mothers knee

15 She had not sailed on the sea
Past days three & four
When she & ship & all were sunk
& never was seen no more

16 O cursed be these mariners
They lead a wicked life
Theyve ruined this young carpenter
& deluded away his wife

Sources
Text given   Peterborough MS B4, p. 46




Back to the Main Forum Page

By clicking on the User Name, you will requery the forum for that user. You will see everything that he or she has posted with that Mudcat name.

By clicking on the Thread Name, you will be sent to the Forum on that thread as if you selected it from the main Mudcat Forum page.
   * Click on the linked number with * to view the thread split into pages (click "d" for chronologically descending).

By clicking on the Subject, you will also go to the thread as if you selected it from the original Forum page, but also go directly to that particular message.

By clicking on the Date (Posted), you will dig out every message posted that day.

Try it all, you will see.