hey turnip - the following isn't for you , don't think you'll like it and would not try to understand it of give a considered response. what was that phrase again pfr? every other significant party, church and charity group, community centre, and staff group in the uk understands that well-funded and resourced public services are the source of our security and community purpose. NHS and all other public services have come to the uk through the labour, trade unions and related progressive interests and represent the collective will of our the countries. of course a lot of these are (at least small s) socialist in spirit. which is why the tory party oppose and will do what they can to self -off and run down these services for the benefit of their rich friends. who can't understand that if someone is ill and needs help - then someone has to make money out of this. if a child needs educating - who makes money out of it? the uk tragedy is we have been sadled with these tories for centuries and even now some people believe that only the posh guys can run the show - it's not for the likes of us to think about that sort of thing. other mature republican countries have had their revolutions or whatever and benefit from the more egalitarian settled will of the people there (and p r) of course we need a healthy mix of capitalism here at a local level anyway. for a settled society comparable to other well-run european countries. we can go this way - aim for a german model say - or go american. it shouldn't be a difficult choice these days.