Give it up, Texas, fer gawd's sake! Oh & skip the abuse pointed in my & the English direction, please. I didn't offer you any. The thread is (or was) about guns, not about races.

Yes I had a look at the link you kindly posted. I read the top article. So what? "Government orchestrated terrorism"? No, I don't think so. There's a difference between trying to infiltrate an agent into a terrorist organisation (yes, your agent has to behave like the terrorists, bit of a no-brainer, that) and originating & orchestrating a terrorist campaign. If the IRA had been a peaceful organisation, MI5 wouldn't have needed an agent behaving in a terrorist fashion (though I daresay they'd still have had an agent in there). And no, they wouldn't have/didn't invent the IRA either to scare us all/take away our rights...

You'll notice that the agent in question had no problem with what he was doing up to the point where MI5 decided he was expendable. And the reasons attributed for that decision, whilst rather calculated & nasty, are coldly logical. In fact, he doesn't to me seem to have a problem with them now, except that they won't give him what he's reasonably asking for.

Sometimes govt has to break it's own laws on a small scale to preserve them on a large scale. Of course it does on the quiet because it knows damn well that very few people would understand the necessity. If you were given the task of killing one innocent person, knowing that if you failed to do so, a thousand innocents would die, what would you choose? It's nasty, but life's like that sometimes.

If you're prepared to throw around phrases like "Government orchestrated terrorism" on the basis of that story, I think we'll have to agree to differ. From my p-o-v, your version of logical analysis is seriously flawed. Either that, or you're deliberately misrepresenting things which would be 10 times worse. I don't think you are, BTW, I think you're suffering from the former. Or in the words of various other posters, I'm afraid I think you're a nut! Sorry! *g*

Most of your continuing remarks about England, BTW, remain substantially untrue. I can quite happily go and speak my mind on a street corner (or even Speaker's Corner, if it comes to that), we haven't lost our rights or our guns (since most people never owned one, nor did we have the 'right' to own one), cameras don't watch me everywhere, & the govt hasn't "admitted it's been behind most of the bombings in Britain over the past 20 years" AFAIK. Etcetera.