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BS: Coffee

DigiTrad:
A PROPER CUP OF COFFEE
I'D RATHER MAKE COFFEE THAN LOVE
MAKIN' COFFEE


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bobad 12 Dec 05 - 03:16 PM
Charmion 12 Dec 05 - 03:44 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 12 Dec 05 - 03:53 PM
Wesley S 12 Dec 05 - 05:48 PM
number 6 12 Dec 05 - 07:03 PM
Metchosin 12 Dec 05 - 08:30 PM
frogprince 12 Dec 05 - 08:35 PM
kendall 12 Dec 05 - 08:39 PM
CarolC 12 Dec 05 - 10:24 PM
GUEST,Wesley S 12 Dec 05 - 10:31 PM
Little Hawk 12 Dec 05 - 11:02 PM
Bill D 12 Dec 05 - 11:44 PM
GUEST, Topsie 13 Dec 05 - 08:04 AM
LilyFestre 13 Dec 05 - 08:37 AM
kendall 13 Dec 05 - 08:45 AM
GUEST,leeneia 13 Dec 05 - 10:25 AM
Rapparee 13 Dec 05 - 06:07 PM
robomatic 13 Dec 05 - 06:21 PM
robomatic 13 Dec 05 - 06:24 PM
wordfella 13 Dec 05 - 06:25 PM
bobad 13 Dec 05 - 07:36 PM
billybob 13 Dec 05 - 07:36 PM
robomatic 13 Dec 05 - 08:25 PM
Rapparee 13 Dec 05 - 10:36 PM
JennieG 14 Dec 05 - 12:57 AM
JohnInKansas 14 Dec 05 - 08:58 AM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Dec 05 - 09:09 AM
bobad 14 Dec 05 - 10:27 AM
JohnInKansas 14 Dec 05 - 10:58 AM
Wesley S 14 Dec 05 - 11:11 AM
JohnInKansas 14 Dec 05 - 12:15 PM
Wesley S 14 Dec 05 - 02:08 PM
JohnInKansas 14 Dec 05 - 02:38 PM
EBarnacle 14 Dec 05 - 05:08 PM
The Fooles Troupe 14 Dec 05 - 06:46 PM
Bunnahabhain 14 Dec 05 - 08:57 PM
JohnInKansas 15 Dec 05 - 12:04 PM
MMario 15 Dec 05 - 12:23 PM
JohnInKansas 15 Dec 05 - 01:41 PM
Rapparee 15 Dec 05 - 01:59 PM
MMario 15 Dec 05 - 02:15 PM
Charmion 15 Dec 05 - 02:30 PM
frogprince 15 Dec 05 - 02:33 PM
MMario 15 Dec 05 - 02:37 PM
M.Ted 15 Dec 05 - 03:12 PM
JohnInKansas 15 Dec 05 - 04:28 PM
M.Ted 15 Dec 05 - 05:33 PM
The Fooles Troupe 15 Dec 05 - 05:54 PM
Bill D 15 Dec 05 - 06:55 PM
Rapparee 15 Dec 05 - 07:12 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: bobad
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 03:16 PM

Among "enlightened" consumers Tim Horton's has the reputation of contributing to obesity, diabetes, atherosclerosis and other problems associated with junk food that is filled with fat and sugar. They are also known to treat their employees very poorly.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Charmion
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 03:44 PM

I'm another ex-military person who learned to drink coffee while living the half-life of a watchkeeper. The first thing I noticed after the truly unique flavour of Canadian Forces' messhall coffee was its stimulant effect on the lower intestine.

Today I benefit from my husband's coffee snobbishness, and start my day with three cups of Il Cremoso, an espresso blend we buy from a local roastery, brewed in the Rancilio espresso machine that crouches expensively on the kitchen counter.

There is little to top the sheer luxury of accepting a cup of top-notch espresso brought sofa-side as one lounges with the Globe & Mail and the cat, and H-Hour at the office still in the hazy future ...


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 03:53 PM

My favorite coffee is 100% Kona, but I can't afford it so I drink Folgers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 05:48 PM

My parents both drank iced coffee in the summer. But they were both from Minnisota - maybe it's a Yankee thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: number 6
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 07:03 PM

"Among "enlightened" consumers Tim Horton's has the reputation of contributing to obesity, diabetes, atherosclerosis and other problems associated with junk food that is filled with fat and sugar."

Geeesh ... I just go there for my coffee, not for a donut. In all seriousness I agree with you on their food .. same with all fast food joints.

"They are also known to treat their employees very poorly." ... where else is one to go for their java Bobad?? All fast food chains treat their employees like crap ... that's why I always tip (least I can do).

sIx


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Metchosin
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 08:30 PM

frogprince, Ice Caps are more akin to milkshakes than coffee, that being said, I'm addicted to them too, but only if they're Tim Horton's.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: frogprince
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 08:35 PM

Inerestin', Wesley; I grew up in Minnesota, on a farm 15 miles east of Austin; never heard of iced coffee back then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: kendall
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 08:39 PM

Jets, your post brought back memories.
The ship I was in had the world's worst coffee. It was made fresh at supper, and left standing all night. By the time we got off watch about 4 am it was an evil shade of gray/green.

The strongest coffee I ever had was in Jamaica. As they say, "One cup of that and you are awake the rest of your life."


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 10:24 PM

We used to have iced coffee when I was growing up in Rhode Island. That was my first experience with coffee. After discovering the wonders of iced coffee, coffee flavored ice cream became my favorite for most of the rest of my growing up years. I think that's why I like Folgers instant the best. When you dissolve it in a very small amount of hot water, and then add enough milk to fill your (tall) glass (and add sugar), it's the best iced coffee there is.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 10:31 PM

A friend of mine mentioned that he takes expresso crystals {??} and adds them to melted coffee ice cream and then refreezes it. All I know is that it tasted sinful.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Little Hawk
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 11:02 PM

Used to love it. Gave it up after a long struggle. I now only drink it on very rare occasions...to cure a headache. (like once in 3 or 4 months, maybe) It works for that...if you only drink it on those few occasions. Go back to a regular habit, and it can actually GIVE you headaches, specially when you're trying to quit.

It dehydrates the body (as does black tea also to some extent), and it damages the digestive system.

But, yeah, when you've got a taste for it, it tastes and smells lovely. And who's perfect?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Dec 05 - 11:44 PM

**pedant alert**

Wesley...it is eSpresso, not eXpresso..this 'can' be important in some places..*grin*

**end pedant alert**


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: GUEST, Topsie
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:04 AM

I was given iced coffee in Tobago in the 1960s, but unfortunately they didn't seem to be able to make it without sugar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: LilyFestre
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:37 AM

Seems to me that when I lived in Rhode Island, they had coffee milk as well.

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: kendall
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:45 AM

putting sugar in coffee is like putting diet pepsi in Glen Morangie.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 10:25 AM

I used to make coffee in the politically correct "French press." (thing with a plunger) After the second one of those shattered, dumping the hot contents wherever it happened to fall, I went back to a percolator, a nice stainless steel one from the local gourmet kitchen shop.

Whatever coffee you buy and however you make it, it is important to stop a process called steam distillation. In steam distillation, the tiny steam bubbles in the hot fluid continue to remove chemicals from the coffee particles in the brew. After a few minutes, these chemicals start becoming bitter. Our method is to perk it for four minutes, pour the coffee into an insulated carafe, drop an ice cube in, and put the lid on.

My mother learned this on a radio program which got the info from the coffee manufacturer's association (whatever its real name is). They were right.

The DH and I make 5 cups every day and split it. One weekends we put in some chicory coffee from the Cafe Monde in New Orleans. I feel that this coffee goes rancid easily, so now we keep the can in the freezer door. It's easy to get one scoopful out.

xx


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 06:07 PM

My favorite coffee is Jamaica Blue Mountain -- NOT a blend, but the real thing. At at least US $40/lb. I can't afford it, though.

I have some real Kona at home, and that's good too.

Right now I'd drinking "Headless Chicken Blend." That's made up of the dabs left in the bags and mixed together.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 06:21 PM

In Patrick O'Brian's naval series there's a scene where the Captain and the Doctor complain to the steward that the coffee tastes odd. Killock the steward replies that is because rats broke into the coffee store and ate up all the beans therefore he made coffee with the turds. The two friends remark on this while drinking every drop. I think that accurately captures coffee dedication.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 06:24 PM

I inherited my grandparents' pyrex coffee maker, a sealed lower globe and an open upper chamber. You boil the water below and the water is pressed through the coffee into the upper section. The filter unit is ground glass as well. Looks like lab equipment. Never use it but it's lovely to look at.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: wordfella
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 06:25 PM

My wife and I make at least three pots a day. We have become very fond of Eight O'Clock's "Balanced Blend," which we call Half-Caff. We can't find it in our new location (Peoria Area,) nor does it seem to be available online.

Blends are fine with us, but not flavors. Ugh.

I love Kona and Blue Mountain--but my wife doesn't.

I hate to say it, but Mickey's D's stuff is very good, Just don't spill it in your lap.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: bobad
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 07:36 PM

robo

I think the filter part of your grandparent's coffee maker would most likely be made of sintered glass not ground glass, don't mean to get too technical but it is an important distinction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: billybob
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 07:36 PM

Just love Greek coffee ,but only when in the Greek islands,warning! do not drink to the bottem of the cup...mud!! Also you need to have a glass of Metaxa brandy in other hand,
There is a wonderful coffee warehouse in the village of Porlock, Somerset, UK. The best coffee in Britain.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: robomatic
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:25 PM

Bobad:

I certainly didn't mean glass grounds: It's a globular affair with a rod through it for orientation (all one piece of glass mind you). The globular part has a kind of 'matte finish' for want of a better word. If the proper term for that is 'sintered' then I've learned something today and I'll try not to blame you overmuch!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Rapparee
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 10:36 PM

Coffee
by Wallace McRae


The feller who invented coffee
Rates pretty high in my book.
You could prob'ly run the Tongue for a week
On the gallons that I've partook.

Sawyers, Butternut or Hills Brothers
Arbuckle or MJB,
Them old brands, and a whole batch of others,
Has been sipped and savored by me.

From a bucket done in the camp fire,
Or a porcelain cup in town,
It's all good, but some of it's better --
A-steamin' and velvety brown.

Cream or sugar? No thanks. Black's for me,
And strong. Yep, and hotter than Hell.
Them contented chemists' Dixie-cup cream
Don't really suit me too well.

Some day when I turn hoofey-side up,
Joinin' Hell's (or St. Peter's wing'd) ranks,
I'll work the herd for coffee's inventor,
To give him a Howdy,...and Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: JennieG
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:57 AM

Coffee press???? just goes to show that different words have different meanings doesn't it.

I still call it a plunger. You plunge the dooverlacky down into the coffee and water don't you?

Cheers
JennieG.....who has just enjoyed a coffee and is looking forward to another later this evening!


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:58 AM

The "glass coffee maker" mentioned by a couple of people in its time was called a "vacuum pot." The lower pot was the "serving pot." You filled it with (preferably cold) water. The upper "globe" had a straight stem that extended down to within about a quarter inch of the bottom of the lower pot, and a glass rod sat in the stem.

Generally there was a fairly massive rubber(ish) gasket surrounding the stem that "sealed" the upper affair to the lower one.

The style existed before "modern materials," and some very old ones might have had a "ground glass" fitting between the stem of the upper bowl and the glass rod. Few of these survive.

After about 1940 or so, both of the bowls were made of "pyrex," which is reasonably heat resistant. The glass rod was usually a "soft glass" that could be molded to fit where it seated in the stem of the upper pot, so no "ground glass joint" was required, although in "transition era" pots they may have simulated the ground glass seal area, for appearance sake.

The rod kept the coffee grounds, placed in the upper bowl, from falling down into the lower pot.

The pot worked well on gas stoves, but occasionally an electric burner would crack one, so people with electric stoves (rare then) used a "heat diffuser" under the pot - which often was just the lid cut out of the top of a can of coffee, although you could buy a "heat spreader" for about a dime at the local five-and-dime.

When you heated the water in the bottom pot, the build up of pressure forced the water up into the top globe. If you heated too fast, occasionally the glass rod would "lift" and drop a few grounds back down into the bottom. Not recommended.

When all of the water was pushed up into the top, steam would come up through the stem. When the upper globe "bubbled" you turned off the burner and let the whole thing sit.

As the bottom pot cooled, the liquid (now coffee) was "sucked" back into the lower pot - hence the "vacuum pot" name. The "fit" between the upper globe stem and the glass rod was the only "filter" required.

The theory of this method was that when the water reached precisely the local boiling point it was pushed through the stem and up into the grounds in the upper globe, so that it was virtually impossible to "overheat" the coffee while it was brewing in the upper globe.

This was the standard coffee brewer in restaurants and in many homes in the central US from mid 1940s through the late 1950s, and makes a very consistent brew. If you have such a pot with a usable gasket, no cracks, and the glass rod isn't seriously chiped or cracked, there is no real reason not to use it if you like, although if it has "sentimental value" perhaps just for "special occasions."

Later on in the era when this style of brewing was commonly used, some restaurants went to an aluminum pot based on the same theory of operation, but there was something "unsatisfying" about not being able to see the color of the brew, so often the glass bottoms came back and only the aluminum "top can" was used - out of sight of the drinkers.

For research purposes, the popular brand name here was the "Cory" (or was it Corey?) coffee maker.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 09:09 AM

Well done JiK, again. Confusion caused by ignorance of the real object again, you see...

When you ASS-U-ME....


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: bobad
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:27 AM

JinK

You are right again as usual, it is the fittings that are made of ground glass, I was thrown off by robo's description of the FILTER UNIT being ground glass.

There is an excellent piece on the history and evolution of vacuum coffee makers at http://baharris.org/coffee/History.htm


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:58 AM

bobad -

Most of the brewers at your history site are the "ancient and primitive" kind, but of course the site's intent is to show all the variations.

So far as I recall, none of the later (Pyrex) domestic use pots had any ground glass joints or fittings. The vacuum pot didn't get popular for home use until the big rubber gasket between the pots came into use and was reliable enough for home use. The common ones I recall looked most like the 1938 Silex shown at the site. Silex did market in my area, but the essentially identical Cory was far more common for home use.

Brewers of this kind are available at local hardware stores now, and they do still work, although the "automatic" electric things have pretty much taken over the consumer market. Commercial places all pretty much have the Bunn automatics: punch a button and something brown comes out - marginally drinkable unless you've deadened the buds with a recent Starbucks - which makes anything else taste good.

When I say 7 cups a day, I mean seven fourteen ounce mugs. But that's just an average.

Good coffee brewers are easily available, unless your standards run to the exotic; but a decent coffee mug is unobtainable in my area. My favorite is more than 55 years old, and irreplaceable.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:11 AM

John - What makes it your favorite coffee mug ? Size ? Shape ?


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 12:15 PM

Wesley S

In the local market, (and apparently in the mass market as well) all the potters have decided that anything that holds liquid has to have a "turned out rim." That's not a cup, or a mug, that's a pitcher (or a dribble glass).

There is also a tendency to find "objects posing as cups" with steeply tapered insides, or with "balloon shaped" innards. Either is difficult to sip from when the cup is just "on the side" while you're working.

Cups with sufficient capacity for sipping at the desk need to be - for my purposes - somewhat larger than the "novelty cups with smart sayings" that are the fall-back, and are about the only thing available with straight sides and no flare.

1. A coffee cup/mug should have a straight cylindrical inside with as little taper as possible.

2. A reasonable (2.75 inches - 6.5 cm) inside diameter is about right.

3. About 4.5 inches - 11.5 cm is a proper inside depth.

4. The lip is for sipping, not for pouring, and should be as thin as is structually sound, and a simple radius with no flare - in or out. A lip radius of about 1/16 inch - 0.16 cm gives a nice 1/8 inch thick lip.

6. A thin, straight lip cools a bit quicker and helps to avoid scorching your lip with the first few sips.

7. The outside of the cup/mug ideally should expand gracefully as you move down the cup. A thicker wall as you sip your way down not only adds to the stability of how the mug sits, but helps to keep the coffee a bit warmer for a little longer. An outside diameter of about 3 inches (7.6 cm) is about right at or just above the bottom.

8. The clay should be close to "stoneware" since the higher silica content retains the heat better than simple "red clays" (it seems to me). Real porcelain seems to conduct heat too rapidly and the coffee gets cold.

9. A smooth glaze, especially inside, that will withstand a few decades of "wash only when the inside coating crumbles" is mandatory.

10. A heavy bottom to resist tipping, and to hold the heat in the last few sips. Close to 1/2 inch thick would do, and also helps keep the last drops warm. A bottom rim that is absolutely flat lends stability, so the center probably needs to be slightly recessed.

11. A convenient and easily grasped handle is mandatory. My favorite has a 3 inch (vertical) opening inside the handle, about 3/4 inch gap between the outside of the cup and inside of the handle, a 3/8 inch thick x 5/8 inch wide handle cross section. The outside of the handle should be nearly flat and as close to vertical as convenient, with due considertion to smooth and functional curves and radii.

12. The handle should not go past about 3/4 inch from the bottom, so that those whose fingers don't all fit inside can have a place to prop the first one outside. It makes a much more stable grip. For a relatively heavy mug, most people will hold the handle a bit below the centerline of the cup, and push with the outside finger to tip comfortably. (Beer mug style doesn't usually work well this way, but it's close perhaps if the handles and mug body are smooth.)

Other than that, I'm not too fussy.

The one I'm using now is the next to last survivor of a set of 6 purchased at a pottery shop "somewhere between Wichita KS and San Diego CA" ca 1943 or 1944 by an ancestor. I have not been able to identify a maker, and have not found anything close since I got "serious" about searching sometime around 1960.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 02:08 PM

Have you ever though about having one made ? Maybe if you got specific about the measurements.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 02:38 PM

I've attempted to talk to a couple of people who make stuff for sale at the festivals around here, but when I say they can't put a dribble lip on it they're not interested. They seem to think that "nonfunctional" is a critical part of their "art."

I'd probably have better luck going down to one of the local hobby shops and making my own - which of course is on my list of "things to do - - someday."

I have no objection if someone wants to use the dimensions and description above to try to make a decent cup. The world is in great need. If anyone happens to be particularly interested, I could take a couple of snapshots to email. PM an email addy. The sales pitch is up above.

Most of those that I know to be "in the business" are located where shipping would likely cost as much as a cup, so I've resisted long distance personal orders; and the detail requirements leave a lot of room for "close but no cigar" results.

Lin in Kansas suggested that I should relate that she's bought "more than a dozen" cups/mugs that she thought "looked like mine," and I've tried them all (actually closer to two dozen). Haven't found one that fills the need. Both of my kids have asked that I make a will and leave them "the cup," so it's not just my own solitary opinion. And I've offered both of them the "rejects" that Lin (and others) have brought home, and they've declined them all, for the same various reasons I don't use any of them.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: EBarnacle
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:08 PM

Try a mix of 1 part Kenya AA with 2 parts Celebes Kalossi. Grind them together [as in start from whole beans] for a few seconds and use a Chemex. Then, after pouring into your pre-heated mug, sit down, put your feet up and enjoy the best coffee this world can offer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:46 PM

I chanced upon a mug years ago that works for me.

It seems similar to JiK's mug.

It holds about 2 standard cups.

The label fell off, but the base has a thin circle of cork.

It stands higher than my palm width - about 6 or so inches high.

The bas is 5-6 inches wide, the top is about 2-1/2 - 3 inches wide.

It tapers from the base up to about 4 inches, then rises cylindrically.

The handle allows all 4 of my fingers to fit fully, and is mounted in such a way with the tapering section and straight section, that it is on a slight angle, with about an inch under the bottom of it.

It is a plastic 'travel mug', with foam insulation inside the inner and outer walls. The inside is completely cylindrical. The top lip is awkward, as it has a clip on lid with a large hole to sip thru, and a small air hole on the opposite side. But when used with the lid on, it is easy to sip from, and the flow is restricted by the hole size.

It stays warm enough to drink for 3-4 hours.

I never realised before consciously just how comfortable it is, and why I drag it with me in the car (which is what it was sold for), then bring it inside for computing use. If going away for a few days to stay at a friends place, I often take it inside and then have tea in it while watching TV.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Bunnahabhain
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:57 PM

you mean something like this shape,


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in an insulating materiel?

http://www.liquidplanet.com/Planetary-Design-Wide-Base-Mug-p-564.html?

But to find one of the old fashioned ones, with a really wide base ( ~3 times wider at base than top), it would seem to be a case of find a freinly potter, or as they were for shipboard use, tin or pewter was used, so a friendly metalworker...


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 12:04 PM

Many of the "large capacity" cups/mugs have a taper on the inside. Some of the worst actually have a "globe shaped" innard. The problem with this is that you have to pay attention and tilt your head back to a different angle when the amount of coffee in the cup changes.

A good mug should be capable of totally autonomic and unconscious use.

You reach vaguely in the general direction and it "leaps into" your grasp.

You draw it close while peering over it at what you're working on, and tilt the cup until the nectar touches your lips.

You satisfy your need, and return the cup whence it came.

If you have to adjust your grip, tilt your head, or in the worst cases actually lean back in your seat to get to the last dregs, it ain't a righteous cup. The only good shape for the inside is a straight untapered cylinder.

The "superwide base" things are intended mainly for use in vehicles not equipped with "cup holders" and are really useful only if you need to set them on the dashboard (or on the seat beside you). The wide base resists tipping. You can also get them with a "sandbag base" that will conform to almost any surface. For safety, a cupholder and a more conventionally shaped cup is really better.

Since a good "sipping rim" is about 3 inches in diameter, I'd have to clear a large bit of my workspace to use one with a 3x (9 inch diameter) base. No thanks.

Unfortunately, cups with lids (to prevent splashing in a moving vehicle) all are (so far as I've seen) plastic, at least on the inside. I may have an unusual sensitivity, but I've never been able to enjoy my nectar from any plastic container. I detect an objectionable taint even from most paper cups - especially including those used by Starbucks.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: MMario
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 12:23 PM

I've yet to get a good cup of coffee at a starbucks - I don't know if that is because the help at the locations I have tried aren't trained properly or they've gotten sloppy - or what; but I've had instant better then what I've been served.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 01:41 PM

Way back some many years ago, a coffee processor burnt a very large batch of beans. Badly burnt

"Somebody" got a really cheap price on them, since the processor couldn't sell them through normal channels.

"Somebody" got the inspirations that "If we give it a fancy name and sell it for an exorbitantly high price, them yuppies in Seattle will be proud to buy it, 'specially if we funk it up with lots of yuppie flavors and spices and odd combinations."

"And we might even sell overpriced donuts."

Starbucks was born.

"Steam brewed" coffee was popular in gold rush towns in the 1860s at least, and several "back east" fancy restaurants now (or last time I was there) feature the original machines. Elaborate, beautiful, fascinating devices. Completely misused in most cases, since current regs won't allow real steam pressure (something about killing off the customers) so, like Starbucks, they now use "pretend steam" that condenses to hot(???) water when it's turned loose on the grounds. Not the original stuff, but then the original wasn't something you'd want a lot of maybe.

Most of the brews used make a pretense of "stronger than usual" by actually using beans "more burnt than usual," since it convinces the gullible that it's "something different" and therefor worth more money. This is akin to the "michelob" with the "import taste," specially brewed to taste like beer that "came over from far away" and is brewed to taste like STALE Lager . But people pay heaps more for it.

But then, maybe I'm a bit of a cynic. I'm old enough to be entitled.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 01:59 PM

John, I've long thought that once upon a time a bunch of guys 'n' gals Texas and New Mexico were sittin' around a barbecue, talkin' about the dudes back East. Someone said, "Hell, you kin sell 'em anything!" and bet somebody else that he could do it. Anyway, the betee chose mesquite, figgerin' that even Easterns couldn't be THAT dumb....

So I don't doubt your Starbucks scenario at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: MMario
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 02:15 PM

regarding iced coffee - it seems to have been a New England thing primarily up until the 70's; leastwise it wasn't until the mid 70's that anyone outside of New England didn't look funny at me if I ordered iced coffee.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Charmion
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 02:30 PM

My tee-total grandparents drank iced coffee in summer.

Their fellow residents in Almonte, Ontario, assumed they developed this odd habit in England, where they lived for 20 years, but I think it more likely they picked it up in Brockville, Ontario, where they shared a summer cottage with Granddad's brothers before the First World War.

Those who don't drink beer need to take fairly drastic measures in the heat of an Ontario summer.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 02:33 PM

What's wrong with you guys, putting Starbucks down; don't you know "You get what you pay for", and that means something expensive is always better than something inexpensive!
             ...damn unamerican commie pinkos...


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: MMario
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 02:37 PM

expensive is always better than something inexpensive - it's taken me 30 years to get my b-i-l to admit this isn't *always* so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 03:12 PM

I like the coffee I like, made the way I like it, served in a vessel that I like.


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 04:28 PM

Rapaire - One lady entrepreneur was selling tumbleweeds to the easterners a few months ago. Doing a thriving business, and got a great writeup in one of the newsrags.

**

Iced coffee is fine, although I don't do it often. The problem is that few commercial places move enough of it to prepare for it, so they pour hot coffee over ice. The coffee needs to be brewed and cooled immediately while fresh, at least to room temperature but preferably to refrigerator temp. Add the ice only when ready to serve. People who like it, who don't "doctor up" their hot coffee, do seem to prefer a shot of milk and often a dab of sweetener. My problem with iced coffee is that you seem to drink it instead of sipping, and it's hard to stay with it all day like you can with hot brew.

John


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 05:33 PM

Thai and Vietnamese restaurants always serve great iced coffee--Burmese restaurants too--


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 05:54 PM

Close enough to the shape

It was found in a auto shop I think - it was US in origin.

I have no problem with the taste - it has 5 years of accumulated insulating surface inside... :-0


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 06:55 PM

well, John, I read your specs for coffee mugs with interest, as I also have difficulty finding just the perfect one. I went and studied the 3-4 that I use most, and I note that they DO conform to your general design, though all have minor deviations. I note that they all are 'nearly' vertical inside, and 3 or the 4 have relatively thin rims, though two are a bit taller than you prefer. There is a bit of a flared rim to two of them, but it is mostly decorative, and not enough to be a problem.
   Interestingly, the one which comes closest to your specs was bought from a potter at the Kansas State Fair in Hutchinson about 1973! I would use it more, but it is one of the taller ones and holds more coffee than I 'usually' drink...that is, I usually brew 4 'cups', which makes 2 medium 'mugs', and my most used mug is just the right capacity.
   If I were to improve on it, I would make a thinner, more comfortable curve to the handle, as I like to slip 3 fingers thru it, with one outside/below....and I'd like that 4th finger to help support the mug from the outside (kind of a double-curve). I bought IT at a 2nd hand store, though it was originally also a stoneware craft item. I have a couple of smaller cups that are 'ok', but I use them only when I am making smaller amounts.

I guess the handle shape is my biggest complaint....I want to go to a potter and sit there while they make a handle precisely to fit my grip!........

(Oh, I will use plastic...the insulated type...when driving, and have built myself custom holders in my van for almost any shape of beverage container.)


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Subject: RE: BS: Coffee
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 07:12 PM

Mugs. My primary criteria is "does it leak?"

I've drunk coffee from mugs, cups, what appeared to be thimbles, canteen cups, styrofoam, paper, wood and god knows what else.

I have mugs. They work. They don't leak. They're reasonably comfortable to use. What more could I ask?


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