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Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?

DigiTrad:
BANANA BOAT SONG
BELAMENA
CHOUCOUNE
COME BACK, LIZA
EDEN WAS JUST LIKE THIS
JAMAICA FAREWELL
TURN AROUND
YELLOW BIRD

Gibb Sahib	30 Sep 10 - 04:29 PM
GUEST,DJ GIBS	24 Nov 10 - 03:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin)	24 May 11 - 01:56 PM
Q (Frank Staplin)	19 Jun 11 - 01:59 PM
GUEST,Knight Samar	26 Feb 12 - 02:15 PM
Q (Frank Staplin)	26 Feb 12 - 03:34 PM
Gibb Sahib	26 Feb 12 - 04:11 PM
GUEST,Dave Samuelson	01 Mar 12 - 03:05 PM
GUEST,ab..texas	15 Dec 13 - 11:19 PM
dick greenhaus	16 Dec 13 - 07:47 PM
Joe Offer	06 Jun 20 - 11:38 PM
GUEST	12 Aug 25 - 08:01 AM
SINSULL	12 Aug 25 - 01:50 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch	12 Aug 25 - 08:12 PM
GUEST,keberoxu	12 Aug 25 - 08:13 PM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch	12 Aug 25 - 08:22 PM
Gibb Sahib	13 Aug 25 - 12:18 AM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch	13 Aug 25 - 10:53 AM
GUEST,Phil d'Conch	19 Aug 25 - 09:26 PM
GUEST	20 Aug 25 - 05:13 AM

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 30 Sep 10 - 04:29 PM

FWIW "Hill and Gully," from my experience with Jamaican music (I am not Jamaican) "Hill and Gully" is extremely well known, to the point that it functions as a sort of "standard reference"... maybe something like "Mary Had a Little Lamb" in North America. As such, the song been recycled in various genres -- evinced by the two samples by "Guest" a couple posts above, where one is in a Calypso style (no, calypso is not "native" to Jamaica, but this song has a calypso style) and the other is to the Ska rhythm. Rendition in a Mento (similar, but distinct from calypso) style are common. It seems as a "standard" item of repertoire for "folkloric" presentations of Jamaican music -- admittedly, the "folkloric" mobilizations of heritage are often pretty staid and contrived-feeling. However, beyond that, I have heard the melody "quoted" by instrumentalists in other genre contexts, and have even heard the phrase "hill and gully" used by at least one toaster/dj/rapper. Jamaican rappers often pull out proverbs and all kinds of non sequitur phrases drawn from the collective cultural conscious (for lack of a better term), so to hear one throw in "Hill and gully" is a pretty good indicator IMO that the ditty has endured and is quite well known. "Hill and Gully" has also been adopted by people in the names for other things...I can't point to any examples, but perhaps you'll take my word for it that they are there, eg. a jerk chicken shack might call itself "Hill and Gully Jerk Centre" or something of that sort.

ramble ramble ramble...

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: GUEST,DJ GIBS
Date: 24 Nov 10 - 03:34 PM

I think this might have been covered already...

I don't know where it originated but I know that this was a very popular Jamaican folk song in the early-to-mid 1900s. It had been sung in Jamaica for decades before anyone there ever recorded it (as they didn't have a recorder until Times Records started recording and sending them to Decca in the UK to be pressed).

The earliest recording I know of "Hill And Gully Ride" is a Mento medley on a Jamaican 78 on the MRS label (#31). Considering this label started in '51 or so, this record was probably released in '53 by Lord Composer... the side B was "Hill And Gully Ride / Mandeville Road" Ironically, Belefonte also borrows from the second song on this medley in his version of "Emanual Road". He did not use "Hill and Gully Ride" in his version of Day-O. That was the version released by the Tarriers called "Banana Boat Song".

Hope that helps... although its been over 10 years since this thread started! So I doubt the orignator will read this.

sorry, no idea about Country & Western music... not my thing.

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 May 11 - 01:56 PM

"Hill and Gully Rider" recorded in 1952 by Edric Connor on his Jamaican folk song album.
The word 'dung', in one of the songs posted above, means dug, as in digging.

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Jun 11 - 01:59 PM

Versions of "Day Oh" (1949 printing), other versions, in thread 40845, Jamaican Folk Music.

Jamaican folk music

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: GUEST,Knight Samar
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 02:15 PM

Feel like witnessing a historic conversation! :D

I heard this song over TV the other day and got the words totally wrong...Something like "Ilamboli Raaina" ...I was searching and searching and then hit the soundtrack list of Open Water (http://www.cduniverse.com/search/xx/music/pid/6770542/a/Open+Water.htm) and here I am :)

I don't understand Jamaican music and still don't get much of the lyrics (it would be great if someone could point to some source on the internet), but this song sounds lovely to me :)

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 03:34 PM

There are some good ones on youtube.com, but title or performer needed to find them (very few have 'Jamaica(n)' in the youtube lists).
Be careful of websites promising Jamaican songs, some are virused.

Titles can be found at mentomusic.com (an excellent site for lyrics, history and lists).

Also see the thread Jamaican folk music for lyrics, references and remarks about some singers.
jamaican folk music
(For some reason not included in the list at top of this thread)

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 26 Feb 12 - 04:11 PM

The word 'dung', in one of the songs posted above, means dug, as in digging.
It usually means "down" in Jamaican.

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: GUEST,Dave Samuelson
Date: 01 Mar 12 - 03:05 PM

In 1999 Erik Darling told me the Tarriers built its hit arrangement of "The Banana Boat Song" around Bob Gibson's version of "Day-O."

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: GUEST,ab..texas
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 11:19 PM

I am 66 years old. I vividly remember the Terriers' song- 1957. The phrase Hill and Gully Rider was appropriated by NYC disc jockey Murray the K (WINS) in the late 1950's; he referred to his listeners as Hill and Gully Riders. May Murray the K rest in peace.

A.B.

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Dec 13 - 07:47 PM

:ittle Sally Racket, I believe, passed through the creative system of A.L. LLoyd, and the result, while memorable, my well have had little relationship to the original.

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Subject: RE: Hill and Gully Riders - is there such a song?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jun 20 - 11:38 PM

Any other versions?

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Subject: RE: Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 08:01 AM

Im pretty sure he's talking about the whaling tune from Moby Dick as they're rowing to their catch (1956), ive been searching for that myself and cant find it anywhere, lol..spot on for catching the lyrics

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Subject: RE: Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?
From: SINSULL
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 01:50 PM

HMMMM Murray the K called his listeners Submarine Race Watchers. I still have my card.

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Subject: RE: Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 08:12 PM

“32. Hill and Gully Riding.[36]
a. (Maroon Town.)

Hill an' gully rider, hill an' gully.
If you tumble down you broke yo' neck,
                                hill an' gully.
Oh, hill an' gully rider, hill an' gully,
If you tumble down you broke yo' neck,
                                hill an' gully.
If you break yo' neck you go to hell,
                                hill an' gully.
If you go to hell de debil glad,
                                hill an' gully.
Oh, hill an' gully rider, hill an' gully.

b. (Brown's Town.)

Hill an' gully rider, hill an' gully.
If you broke yo' neck yo go to hell. Hill an' gully.
Hill an' gully rider, hill an' gully.
If you broke yo' neck yo go to hell. Hill an' gully.
It's a long, long way; hill an' gully.
It's a long, long way to hell. Hill an' gully.

[36] The action of this game resembles that of the last* except the players jump over not under the clasped hands and it hence becomes a vigorous athletic game for men and boys.

Players (male) form a curved line holding hands. As they keep time to the song, one and then another player leaps over and passes under the joined hands without breaking the line.”
[Folk Games of Jamaica, Beckwith & Roberts, 1922]
* “Thread the Needle”
Note: Includes music.

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Subject: RE: Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 08:13 PM

In grade school, our music classes featured
a series of songbooks with recordings, and
we would sing along to the recordings.

That's where I first heard Hill and Gully Rider,
in fact that's the only place I've heard it.

They used the lyrics in Elizabeth's early post to this thread,
with the zombie mentioned.

The whole recording is very upbeat and rhythmic.

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Subject: RE: Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 08:22 PM

Louise Bennett-Coverly's Dah Day Light (aka: Day-O) is here: ADD: jamaican folk music

Two completely different songs, got mashed together. The result was neither 'authentic' calypso nor mento. It is 'Manhattan' (Tin Pan Alley) calypso.

The 'original' banana song is Louise Bennett's Dah Day Light. The Edric Connor recording is straight from the Bennett songbook. Neither work reflects the hill an' gully lyric.

Harry Belafonte's songs were 'adapted' by Irving Burgie (Lord Burgess) who also backed Bennett at her New York club dates. The two (2) takes on the above are Day-O and Star Oh, both were released on the million seller Calypso album. As above, neither track has a hill an' gully.

AFAIK the Lord Composer (Omri Mundle) release mentioned above is the 'original' Jamaican Hill an' Gully commercial recording but... everybody who as been anywhere near the place knows, it was a party game song for donkey years before that. And yes, there are no bananas.

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Subject: RE: Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 13 Aug 25 - 12:18 AM

And here's Olive Lewin's (Jamaican musicologist, 1927-2013) take on it:

//
A Maroon play song: a plantation work song

Most Jamaicans know "Hill an' Gully Rider" as a work song. It, however, started life as a rather athletic game played by men and boys in western Maroon towns. Considering the terrain of the country in which they live, it is quite conceivable for them to have invented a game in which the players' movements simulate the jagged outlines of the hills.

For this game, players hold hands in a curved line. One by one they alternately leap over and pass under the chain of hands without breaking it. In call and response style, the leader is answered by the chorus singing "Hill an' gully".
...

I have never heard this game played beyond the limited Maroon area of the Cockpit Country.

(Lewin, Olive. _“Rock It Come Over”: The Folk Music of Jamaica._ Kingston: University of the West Indies Press, 2000.
//

Per my comments upthread from 2010, I'm not sure that today's Jamaicans would necessarily still know "Hill and Gully" as a worksong or necessarily anything about its history, but I'm pretty sure that early 100% of people raised in Jamaica know the tune because it is ubiquitous in the Jamaican soundscape, even if only heard quoted in recorded popular music.

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Subject: RE: Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 13 Aug 25 - 10:53 AM

Folks do forget, that's why we're on Mudcat I guess.

"Work song" – The Lord Composer track released by Stanley Motta is in medley with the lesser known Mandeville Road. Both sides (four songs) are labeled “(Jamaican Digging Songs)”.

It's hotel lounge music. The 1950s dance to go with was the usual bump and grind tourist floor show. There must have been dozens of variations on “Thread the Needle.” I myself wouldn't think of the songs and party games/dances as linked in any real way.

“First to finish” – Going back and double checking my dates and titles. As mentioned above, Hill an Gully is on the 1954 Edric Connor album (most of the web entries are wrong btw.) Also a medley, with Dah Day Light; Ada; Las Kean Fine; Hill an Gully. This might also be the source of some confusion.

So 1954 saw both a Trinidadian record in London and a Jamaican in Kingston.

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Subject: RE: Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 19 Aug 25 - 09:26 PM

RE: The Bob Gibson connection. Long quote & more than a bit puzzling but… verrry interesting:

“Then I made a deal to go to Nassau and lay over until the next ship came around, so I had six or seven days. Brian [sic] Blake was still alive and playing then in Nassau. That was his stomping ground – the Royal Palms* – or something – Hotel. Also on the ship**, I met young guy named Roy Model [sic]. Lord Composer was his working name. He had a six-piece calypso band from Kingston***. I spent two weeks right in Kingston, staying at his house, going to church with him and his mother to hear music the likes of which I've never heard since – in black churches, going up in the Cameroons**** which were the mountains in central Jamaica, where Roy's cousin was the leader of a digging gang.

None of the work was done by machines. It was all done by hand labor, and the guy who led the singing was held in such high regard that he was employed by the guys on the crew. He was paid standard wages by the boss because he dug too, but he was also paid a bonus, so it was very competitive. I don't know how much the fee was, but he was making something like double salary to sing these work songs. For the money, anyone would have done it, but you had to be good at it. Roy's cousin was on of the best guys, so learned a lot of work songs….”

On the Tarriers' cover:
“The Tarriers version starts off with, “Hil un galy rider, hil un galy...” which is a digging song from the Cameroons. I taught them that and the banana boat song, which Belafonte called Day-O, but I didn't learn that from anybody. I was there in Kingston when they were walking with these bunches of bananas on their heads to load the ship. It was cheaper to hire labor than it was to get a conveyor belt.”
[I Come for to Sing, Bender & Gibson, 1999, revised ed.2000]

*Blind Blake at the Royal Victoria maybe?
**S.S. Queen of Nassau
***Lord Composer and His Calypso Champions. See Songs from the Caribbean, ART Records, ALP-15, 1955.

LP notes: Band was AKA “The Silver Seas Hotel Orchestra” (not all from Jamaica) and the Banana Song (track B8) is a different, entirely unrelated, song about bananas.

****Cameroon Mountains &c: Doesn't ring any bells but that's just me.

Omri Mundle was based in Ochos Rios (the Silver Seas Hotel.) The region known as “Cockpit Country” contains both the aforementioned Maroon Town in the west and Brown's Town in the east. The “Dry Harbor Mountains” are roughly between Brown's Town and Ochos Rios.

Geo Trivia: Harry Belafonte's mother (Aboukir) and Bob Marley (Nine Mile) both hailed from the same general area. Katherine Dunham's Journey to Accompong is set just a tad to the south.

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Subject: RE: Origin: Hill and Gully Rider-is there such a song?
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 25 - 05:13 AM

Yes it was a Jamaican bean planting song referenced in Shanties from the 7 Seas and used by Bert Lloyd in the Film Moby Dick 1956.
Chris R

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