Subject: Correct name and publisher for From: northfolk Date: 06 Jul 98 - 11:43 PM A couple days before fathers day, on a public radio station that will remain unnamed,(but highly appreciated) I heard a series of songs that were identified as having been recorded on what I think was titled "The Family Album" I was driving much too fast to be writing this down. One of the songs on same was the Randall Knife, another was a song that a great old friend of mine used to sing about a son who was unable to marry any of the girls he loved, because his father took him aside and explained... they were "related". Then when his mother got wind of it, she explained that they weren't!!! I searched the D.T. with the info available and came up with naught. Help. |
Subject: RE: Correct name and publisher for From: Bob Bolton Date: 07 Jul 98 - 02:31 AM G'day Northfolk, I remember that plot in a calypso format, during the 1960s. The song title was something very like "Scandal in the Family", which was also used as a refrain. Find ... Enjoy! Rob Bolton |
Subject: RE: Correct name and publisher for From: Joe Offer Date: 07 Jul 98 - 03:31 AM The database has at least two songs on the "she's your sister/he's not your father" theme. If you search under SHAME AND SCANDAL, you will also find another song on the same theme called JOHNNY BE FAIR. I swear we have come up with other songs like these, but I couldn't find them. -Joe offer- |
Subject: RE: Correct name and publisher for From: Roger Himler Date: 07 Jul 98 - 06:58 AM Michael Cross does of version of this song, which he calls Elma Turl.
Elma Turl was a beautiful girl and I'd like to have her for my wife. If you are also looking for the Randall Knife, it was written by Guy Clark. I could probably dig up the album and the publishing info. if you want it. Roger in Baltimore |
Subject: RE: Correct name and publisher for From: Andre Date: 14 Jul 98 - 12:04 AM For a new slant on the "can't marry her" theme try the poem "Madame La Marquise" by Robert Service, in The Complete Poems of Robert Service, Dodd, Mead & Company, New York, 1945. Great Stuff. Somebody should put a tune to it. Andre in Seattle |
Subject: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Marion Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:43 AM Hello folks. I recently heard Penny Lang sing an Irish sounding song that sounded great and made us laugh. If anyone recognizes it and can point me to lyrics, chords, or even a title that would be great. Plot synopsis: Johnny is a good man who wants to marry me. I would marry Johnny, but my father up and said: "I never told your mother this, but Johnny is a son of mine, so he is kin to you." (that verse is repeated a few times with other boys' names.) I'm the most unfortunate girl in the town, and my father is the cause; I'm related to every boy in town and cannot find someone to marry. So I told my mother and she said, "He's not the one who sired you, so marry at your will." Hmm... it seemed funnier with the real lyrics. Anyone? Thanks, Marion Related threads: Also see "Shame and Scandal" and "Johnny Be Fair" in the Digital Tradition Database. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Wolfgang Date: 03 Jun 99 - 11:50 AM Hi Marion, look at the old thread scandal in the family Wolfgang |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Roger in Baltimore Date: 03 Jun 99 - 12:21 PM Marion, This "joke" seems to have spawned several songs. Mike Cross from North Carolina, USA wrote one called "Elma Turl". Only when the "Shame and Scandal" thread came up did I realize that Mike was not being all that original. It's still a good song though. Roger in Baltimore |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: MMario Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:00 PM you can see a version at this url: http://www.chivalry.com/cantaria/lyrics/johnny_be_fair.html blue_clickie MMario |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: catspaw49 Date: 03 Jun 99 - 01:12 PM Somehow I see this relating to the "Bone of My Bone" thread, but I will reserve comment at this time as all of this is beginning to inspire an "over the top" response.......and,uh.........I gotta' go take a pill.....calm,catspaw,calm................ catspaw |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: The Shambles Date: 03 Jun 99 - 02:08 PM ERR? I think you just did comment. They say that "great minds think alike", but I don't know how much comfort it is (to either of us) that I was thinking on the same lines as you. It is also said that "fools seldom differ." |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: dick greenhaus Date: 03 Jun 99 - 02:14 PM Johnny Be Fair is in DigiTrad. |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Marion Date: 04 Oct 00 - 03:33 PM Can anyone tell me if Johnny Be Fair is traditional or recently composed? I hope to perform it in a couple of weeks, and want to know how to introduce it. I would just like to add that this thread was my very first post on Mudcat, right after I stumbled in here, so now I'm getting warm fuzzy feelings about cycles being completed... I'd also like to point out that I had the sense from the beginning to use a specific thread title and put as much detail as possible in the first post, though there were no FAQs or "Common Prefix" options back then. "I am so smart! I am so smart! S-M-R-T! I mean, S-M-A-R-T!" (Homer Simpson) Thanks, Marion |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: mousethief Date: 04 Oct 00 - 03:39 PM Anybody have music to "Johnny Be Fine"?
Alex |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Wavestar Date: 04 Oct 00 - 03:52 PM Although I know it as "Jimmy be Fair", it's a wonderful song, and though I'm sorry I don't have music, Alex, I'd be happy to teach you the tune of you came to Scotland! This is one of the songs my 'wench group' sings regularly. We need more, if anyone's up for suggestions. -Jessica |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: mousethief Date: 04 Oct 00 - 03:58 PM I can't make it to Scotland this year, I'm afraid -- I really would love to! Somebody must have the tune who can get it onto the web somehow. It's a really cute song.
Alex |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: MMario Date: 04 Oct 00 - 04:03 PM alex - check out my clickie above, you can at least HEAR it. marion - cantoria list it as a "contemporary" song |
Subject: Lyr Add: MADAM LA MARQUISE (Robert W. Service)^^ From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Oct 00 - 04:08 PM The following is presented as a public service... -Joe Offer- Madam La Marquiseby Robert W. ServiceSaid Hongray de la Glaciere unto his proud Papa: What made the Marquis start and stare, and clutch his perfumed beard? So broken-hearted Hongray went and roamed the world around, The Marquis de la Glaciere collapsed upon the floor, Again sore-stricken Hongray fled, and sought his grief to smother, And so his story Hongray told, in accents choked and muffled. Return to The Original Home Page of Robert W. Service ^^ I'm not sure I believe that Robert W. Service was the author of this. does anybody have proof, one way or another? Supposedly, this was in his 1940 book, Bar-Room Ballads. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Sapper_RE Date: 04 Oct 00 - 04:20 PM The version I recall was by Lance Percival sometime in the late '60s!!! The last lines of each verse were in the style of:- "That girl is your sister, But your mama don't know" With the last one being from mama herself:- "Your papa's not your papa, But your papa don't know" Bob |
Subject: Lyr Add: ELMA TURL (Mike Cross)^^ From: Joe Offer Date: 04 Oct 00 - 05:57 PM ELMA TURL (Mike Cross) Elma Turl is a beautiful girl, and I'd love to have her for my wife, She's just the kind of woman who could make me happy for the rest of my life My daddy said, "Son, there's something you don't know, and it's something I think you oughter Elma Turl is a beautiful girl; but son, she's my daughter." Alice Green is a beautiful thing, and I'd love to have her for my wife, She's just the kind of woman who could make me happy for the rest of my life My daddy said, "Son, there's something you don't know, and it's something I think you oughter Alice Green is a beautiful thing; but son, she's my daughter." Well, I've been all around the whole durn county, like a buck huntin' for a doe, But it seems every girl I'd like to marry is a wild oat Daddy sowed So I went to my mama with my head hung down, and she asked me what the matter could be, I told her my problem and she took my hand and said, "Son, now listen to me." "You see, your daddy was such a good-lookin' young man, and like an eager young stallion horse His blood ran hot, so you can't blame him for lettin' Mother Nature take her course But you got no reason to be upset; don't you worry, don't fret, don't bother You see, your daddy ain't your daddy, he only thinks he is; so you can marry whomever you wanter. Transcribed from "Mike Cross: The Best of the Funny Stuff – Crème de la Cross" (Copyright Vic Ray Publishing, ASCAP) (a version of "Johnny Be Fair") Also see "Shame and Scandal" and "Mixed Up Family" @bastard @family @marriage @courting filename[ ELMATURL JRO Oct00 ^^ |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: ddw Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:27 PM Harry Belafonte did a calypso version of this tale back in the '60s. I don't remember the name of it, but I'm sure somebody could furnish that. david |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: CamiSu Date: 04 Oct 00 - 10:46 PM OK, So Jessica, will thee teach it to ME? Mum |
Subject: Mixed Up Family - Jimmy Driftwood From: Joe Offer Date: 05 Oct 00 - 05:07 PM I got the following message from Arkie, who gave me permission to post it. -Joe Offer- I heard Jimmy do this song many times, but never asked him where he got the idea. Before moving to the Ozarks in 1971, I had learned the "Shame and Scandal" version from a teenager at a Methodist youth workshop where I was a counselor. Again I did not inquire of the source. Here in Driftwood country, I quit singing the calypso version. I am curious about the known versions, as to which came first, etc. I am sure that Mike Cross' song is the most recent. Probably Buffy Ste. Marie adapted Jimmy's version. They did some festivals together in the 1960s. The story around here is that Buffy learned the picking bow from Pat Sky who learned it from Driftwood. Through the years I have learned to question the veracity of some of Jimmy's stories, and he may have heard Buffy do her version which sounds as though it may have its origins in the British Isles. Which brings up another possibility. A new member on our staff here at the Ozark Folk Center has a vague recollection of hearing some British singer, possibly Martin Carthy sing a version of the song. Of the versions identified so far, I would guess that the Service poem would be the oldest. While Driftwood did write some original songs, a large portion of his repertoire were rewrites of older songs. I am reasonably certain that "The Mixed Up Family" is such a rewrite. Jimmy attempts to explain the the old man was a liar not a philanderer. That is certainly more acceptable to Ozark folk, who do not consider themselves lying when they speak an untruth to an outsider. |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Wavestar Date: 05 Oct 00 - 06:26 PM Mum: Sure :) But thee knows my grasp of tunes... -J |
Subject: Info: Johnny Be Fair From: Joe Offer Date: 09 Oct 00 - 05:29 PM I just got a very interesting e-mail just now. I asked ahead of time whether I could post the information in the reply, so I guess it's OK. Hi, Thanks, Buffy. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: Lyr Add: MY MADONNA and PICTURE AT ST. HELENE^^ From: GUEST,Arkie Date: 12 Oct 00 - 12:00 AM Joe, thanks for your contributions to this thread. Really nice to get a response from Ms St. Marie. My friend who manages the Driftwood collection at the Univ. of Central Arkansas is of the opinion that Jimmy was inspired to write his version by a joke. And that may well be the case. Or he may have had Robert Service's poem as well. He must have read some of Service's poetry. Since his song "The Picture At St. Helene" bears a close similarity to "My Madonna".
MY MADONNA
I haled me a woman from the street,
She laughed at my picture and went away.
THE PICTURE AT ST. HELENE
I met a girl in a cheap hotel
She walked away with a cigarette
My model attracted a wealthy guy, |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 12 Oct 00 - 03:36 PM I have heard a song where the child tells the story of her father's funeral. The chorus begins " Then all his other wives came in..." and ends "and they brought a lot of kids with them that looked a lot like me" If this is your song I can find the lyric. |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Oct 00 - 03:54 PM I dunno if it's the source of the other songs, Keith, but please post the song. It's a good idea to keep things together and post it in this thread here. You can find it by putting promisc in the "filter" box. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 13 Oct 00 - 02:59 PM Joe, thanks for the very welcome help on the filter function. I know this song from a singer at a once a month session locally,so getting the lyrics would take time. It does not seem to be the one in the original question. Keith |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: GUEST,Terry Wessling Date: 14 Oct 00 - 02:46 PM I heard the song mentioned in the initial inquiry sung this summer at the Minnesota Renaissance festival. It is indeed the story of a sad young Irish lass with a promiscuous father. If you'd like, I will contact the young lady who sang it for us and see about obtaining the music and lyrics. Oddly enough, the young singer was portraying the daughter of King Henry at our festival. What does that say about our Queen?
|
Subject: Johnny Be Fair From: Joe Offer Date: 14 Oct 00 - 03:02 PM Yes, Terry - please do obtain the lyrics and post them, and try to find out whatever you can about the history of the song. It's possible that the song you heard was Buffy Saint-Marie's Johnny Be Fair (click), which we already have - it sounds very Irish. If it's anything else, I'd sure like to see the lyrics. This song must have an origin farther back than the 1940 poem by Robert W. Service, but that's the earliest version we've been able to verify so far. -Joe Offer- |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: richlmo Date: 14 Oct 00 - 09:38 PM This one's not funny ,but there is a great version of " Silver Dagger" on Dolly Parton's, The Grass Is Blue . |
Subject: RE: seeking song about girl w/ promiscuous father From: GUEST,MJB Date: 20 Feb 10 - 05:34 PM IMHO (and limited knowledge) I learned about this song when a band called Morphine did a version in the 90s. I've heard since (I believe from American Routes) that there are many versions of this song with long roots in Jamaican music and that there are many, many blues versions. |
Subject: ADD: All the Lads in Town (songwriter?) From: Joe Offer Date: 01 Mar 12 - 01:59 AM I cam across yet another version of this story. I found it on an album titled Here's to the Men by the Merry Maids of Windsor, and then I found the lyrics at one of "those" Websites, http://lyrics.wikia.com/The_Merry_Wives_Of_Windsor:All_The_Lads_In_Town I've corrected the lyrics as I hear them on the recording. I don't know the name of the songwriter. ALL THE LADS IN TOWN (songwriter?) Johnny is a handsome lad And asked me for to wed. And I would marry Johnny But me father up and said, "I am sorry to tell you, daughter, What your mother never knew, But Johnny is a son of mine And so is kin to you." The boy that I will marry will be handsome, strong, and tall, And he will sing my praises and be at my beck and call. The boy that I will marry will keep me satiated, And every night in bed I'll pray that we are not related. William is a handsome lad And so is Pat O'Brian. So too is Mickey Grady And his younger brother Ryan. But father was a busy man. His seed so far did spread. He told me they're my brothers all. So safe my maidenhead. The boy that I will marry will be handsome, strong, and tall, And he will sing my praises and be at my beck and call. The boy that I will marry will keep me satiated, And every night in bed I'll pray that we are not related. Ye never saw a lass so sad And sorry as I was. The lads in town were all my kin And me father was the cause. If I should die a single maid For that adulterer's sport, I think I'll go to mother for His wanderings to report. "Now, daughter, didn't I teach you To forgive and to forget? Himself he sowed his wild oats, But that you needn't fret. Your father may be father To all the lads but still, He's not the one that sired you So marry who you will." The boy that I will marry will be handsome, strong, and tall, And he will sing my praises and be at my beck and call. And since my mother twiddled with a sailor come from sea, I'll find myself a handsome lad who'll not be kin to me. The boy that I will marry will be handsome, strong, and tall, And he will sing my praises and be at my beck and call. The boy that I will marry will keep me satiated, And every night in bed I'll pray that we are not related. |
Subject: RE: Origins: songs about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Felipa Date: 20 Sep 14 - 06:45 PM the French language version by Maurice Tézé and recorded by Sacha Distel has words very similar to "oh woe is me", version of Shame and Scandal recorded by the Kingston Trio but I wonder if there is any older French version of this story/song which perhaps inspired Robert Service. Madam la Marquise is more complex and detailed and seems quite different from other songs telling this joke. Shame and Scandal, Mixed up family, Johnny be fair, etc all seem very similar to me but I wouldn't have thought Madam la Marquise was directly related if I hadnt read what other people say about Jimmy Driftwood on this thread. And either All the Lads in Town is an embellishment of Johnny be Fair -it doesnt look to me like an old song, or I would doubt whether Johnny be Fair is really composed by Buffy St Marie (well, the wording could be very close to the wording of the joke she heard, that could explain similarity between the songs) |
Subject: RE: Origins: songs about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Felipa Date: 20 Sep 14 - 06:49 PM you could ask the Merry Wives of Windsor about their song. They are in southern California http://www.mwow.net/ They mention "bawdy original songs"; probably they upgraded "Johnny Be Fair" to fit this category. |
Subject: RE: Origins: songs about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Felipa Date: 20 Sep 14 - 07:18 PM looking for more info re origins of Madam La Marquise -- would want to find out if there is material here similar to the story told by Robert Service of coure there are many madames and many marquises; I didnt find anyting about a Marquise de la Glacier song/s http://www.worldcat.org/title/tout-va-tres-bien-madam-la-marquise-je-crois-bien-que-cest-lamour-chanson-fox-humoristique-slow-fox/oclc/477266864 recorded by Ray Ventura and colleagues http://pleer.com/tracks/9084210UCsn (listen to the song) It's strange, everything is okay Madam (fire, suicide, everything's fine) but nothing about marriage and incest a la Robert Service |
Subject: RE: Origins: songs about girl w/ promiscuous father From: Felipa Date: 20 Sep 14 - 07:24 PM you tube with the French Madam Marquis song with French lyrics and translation http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdLUV0hhYZY But this song is not part of the lyric family discussed in the rest of this thread |
Subject: RE: Origins: songs about girl w/ promiscuous father From: meself Date: 20 Sep 14 - 09:45 PM You know what I love about Mudcat? Someone of the stature of Buffy Ste. Marie can contribute first-hand information to one of our threads - and get called a liar like anyone else .... |
Subject: RE: Origins: songs about girl w/ promiscuous father From: GUEST,merlynn Date: 21 Aug 15 - 03:45 PM If you are still looking for the music to "Johnny Be Fair", I have the Buffy Ste Marie version. |
Subject: RE: Origins: songs about girl w/ promiscuous father From: GUEST,Arkie Date: 21 Aug 15 - 05:57 PM If this works you can hear Jimmy Driftwood's Mixed Up Family here: Mixed Up Family |
Subject: Dad tells daughter that her suitors are From: GUEST,Folkie7 Date: 26 Apr 16 - 03:09 PM Looking for title of song about a father who tells daughter that her suitors are her step-brothers in order to dissuade her from pursuing things further. Song end when mother tells her not to be concerned, since the father is not blood-related. |
Subject: RE: Dad tells daughter that her suitors are From: Joe Offer Date: 26 Apr 16 - 04:04 PM Oh, that's a fun one. This thread (click) is our primary thread on the subject. I've added crosslinks above to all of our related threads. I suppose the most popular song on this theme is Johnny Be Fair, written by Buffy Sainte-Marie. She told us that she heard the story as a joke, and made it into a song. -Joe- |
Subject: RE: Dad tells daughter that her suitors are her kin From: MGM·Lion Date: 26 Apr 16 - 05:07 PM Ewan MacColl used to tell it as a tale in Scottish accent, of the father who would forbid his son to marry any girl he suggested because "She's ma ain natural dochter." His mother, asking son why so unhappy at one particular such warning as he was truly in love, consoled him with "Ne'er ye mind him, ma son; just ye gang aheed and wed the lass. He's no' your faither at a'!" ≈M≈ |
Subject: Dad tells daughter that her suitors are her kin From: Joe Offer Date: 03 Aug 16 - 10:42 PM Robert Rodriquez says that Vance Randolph collected a version of this song as a story called He Was Fast, But I Was Faster. I can't find it in my Randolph books. Anybody know of it? -Joe- |
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