Help: Slipping guitar pegs

Subject: Slipping guitar pegs
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 03:18 AM

I have a couple of guitars--including my 1965 Gibso LG 50--that have one or more pegs that just won't stay tuned for more than about one song--especially if I capo up for a song. Some of the pegs just won't stay put--they seem to have excess slack in the worm drives. If I tighten the screws, it lasts a few hours or a few days.

Is there anything you can put on the worm drive or the screws that will stop or slow down the slipping. I could buy new pegs, but that's kind of expensive and a couple of my "everyday" guitars aren't really worth spending a lot on. (I have a beautiful old Martin that I play at home and use for special gigs, but I don't like to travel with it a lot or take it to my daily gigs at retirement centers and nursing homes for fear of it being damaged or stolen while in my car or elsewhere.

If anyone has any suggestions about improving peg stability, I'd appreciate them

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Slipping guitar pegs
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 03:30 AM

Er, that's Gibson LG 50.

Subject: RE: Help: Slipping guitar pegs
From: mooman
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 04:13 AM

What make of tuners Genie? I presume they're the "open" type. If so, it's often possible to replace the geared cog which get worn a lot quicker than the worm drive. That's a lot cheaper than a new set of tuners.

Best regards,

mooman

Subject: RE: Help: Slipping guitar pegs
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 04:44 AM

Having lived with some pretty cheap instruments, I don't doubt that some tuning machines may creep. You can get replacement gears for some kinds of machines, but unless you start with a quality piece repair may be less effective than just replacement.

A couple of things that may help you to "live with" a bothersome tuner:

Uneven winding of the string on the tuner shaft can cause a "lumpy" winding that just refuses to stay in particular positions. Try to avoid winding a lot of string onto the shaft, and keep the winding as smooth/even as possible.

Try to always tune "up" to pitch. If a string is sharp, turning it just down to pitch leaves any "slack" in the machine "open." Turn it down to below pitch and then bring it back up, so that the gears are "loaded" in the same direction they "hold" to keep the string up.

A "sticky" nut can cause a difference in string tension above and below the nut which, when (not if) disturbed, can redistribute to detune the string. Take a look at the nut to see that the string notches aren't worn deep enough to let the groove "grip" the string. A very small bit of powdered graphite just in the groove sometimes helps. (I knew a fellow who played for years with a small slip of cigaret paper under each string in the nut, because he claimed it kept the grooves "lubricated." I'm not sure what he added for "lubricant" but it often looked like ear wax.)

Best advice is to get a trusted luthier to look at your setup to tell you what needs to be done.

John

Subject: RE: Help: Slipping guitar pegs
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 01:59 PM

Thanks for the advice, Mooman. The LG 50 has open tuners, so I imagine my luthier could replace the geared cog.

Thanks for your suggestions, too, John. Some of them, like the graphite thing and tuning up to pitch I already do, but it helps to be reminded.

Still wondering, though, IS there a substance you can put on a screw to keep it from slipping yet still allow it to be turned with a screwdriver?

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Slipping guitar pegs
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 03:54 PM

Genie, there is a product called Loctite, available in various strengths, which is expressly designed to prevent thread slippage, while allowing subsequent adjustment.

I have a feeling however that even the weakest Loctite would still be too tenacious for your purpose, but it might be worth a try.

Murray

Subject: RE: Help: Slipping guitar pegs
From: GUEST,Genie
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 04:01 PM

Thanks, Murray. That's the product I was trying to think of, but I think you may be right about it being too strong. I have an Alvarez guitar with one peg that's totally stripped, so I can't play that guitar until something is done about that peg. I could try the product out on that peg first.

Genie

Subject: RE: Help: Slipping guitar pegs
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 08 Jul 02 - 09:51 PM

Genie -

Loctite is available in a number of "strengths," and there is an "instrument grade" that will retain but permit removal of screws down to #00 or smaller in size; but you are unlikely to find any but "automotive" grades in local retail markets.

The "screwlock" grade sold in auto repair shops might be safe on screws 1/4 inch or larger; but the "studlock" grade should lock a 3/8 diameter bolt tight enough to break the bolt without moving, once set.

A separate primer is virtually mandatory to get consistent results with Loctite, but is usually not used - partly because people don't know they should, and partly because these kinds of "retainers" should only be used where your don't really need them to begin with.

In the olden days before Loctite, instrument makers used to paint the heads of screws after tightening with "Glyptal," which is nothing more than a good grade of oil-based enamel. Enough will "seep under" the head to give some retention; but since most of it is on the outside you can pick it off, usually just with a fingernail, to remove the screw.

A few old instrument makers occasionally used a laquer made by dissolving a little rosin in alcohol to paint the threads of screws before installing. When the alcohol evaporates, it leaves a "slightly sticky" coating on the thread - if the part was clean enough before the application. A similarly applied beeswax coating was also sometimes used.

The problem with any of these is that you have to try one on a few screws before you can be very confident about what it's going to do. Replacement of worn or otherwise defective parts is the preferred solution.

John