BS: Polish Workforce in Britain

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 03:48 PM

Not even rising to the bait of xenophobic trolls like Daily Mail Reader, can I just somewhat irreverently add that any country that invents bread this good wins a cracking dziesięć punktów from me...

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 03:26 PM

They also remember what work is. They come from a culture where they can be sacked at the drop of a hat, so they work to keep their jobs.
They will eventually learn the wicked ways of the EEC where you cannot sack someone because they are useless. you must tell them they are useless, then you must write it down so they can read it for themselves. Then you must write it down again, and only after you have done that can you sack them.
Then they can go get legal aid and fight you through an employment tribunal, in an effort to prove they aren't useless.
If you as their employer are really lucky you will be able to prove they were useless, and all you will have to pay is a couple of thousand pounds to your lawyer for the privilege.
No need to wonder why as an employer one would prefer to take on staff who still remember the work ethic.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Jonny Sunshine
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 03:04 PM

Guest Bob, who hasn't seen any Poles in Reading- there's been a Polish community in Reading for a long time- the Polish Club, which shut down last July had been there 42 years. And there's been a Polish catholic church on Watlington St since the late 70s.

Also, Guest Dailymail Reader; UK unemployment benefits are considerably higher than in Poland. So is the cost of living. And so are wages, which is why most of the recently-arrived Poles have come here- unemployment is roughly half the national average amongst Poles.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 01:53 PM

To be entitled to draw benefit in the UK you have to be here some time and jump through various hoops. All countries have rules about stuff like that, and the UK's aren't by a long way the soft ones.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Zen
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 01:42 PM

Unemployment benefit in UK £78.00 Poland £13.00. Child benefit in Poland £3.00 a week

But most Poles who come here come to work hard... often doing jobs that locals won't or can't, not to go on the dole.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 12:54 PM

I treasure the memory of my late father-in-law - a Pole who at the age of 20, fought his way out of wartime Poland and adjacent countries, with just a few coins and his father's old Mauser pistol to get to North Africa. From there he was flown to Scotland where he joined the Polish section of the RAF and became first a rear-gunner and then a bomb aimer, flying sorties over North Africa and Germany.

He married an English girl - my wife's mother, contracted TB from his war work, was 2 years in a sanatarium, got work as an engineer, bought a house, raised a family, sent money back to his relations in Poland, and was a hard-working, principled man all his life.

When we want to Poland as a young married couple to visit relations, we were treated with wonderful courtesy, kindness, love and generosity from people who - by our standards in the West - had virtually nothing. All the Poles I've met recently - young workers - have been of similar mould.

Some memories or knowledge may be short - mine is most definitely not.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 12:49 PM

Get your facts straight McGrath, Unemployment benefit in UK £78.00 Poland £13.00. Child benefit in Poland £3.00 a week.

"The benefits system in the UK is not particularly helpful to people from overseas". Do you play Dark side of the moon or live on it. They are creaming it man.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 12:02 PM

"Daily Mail reader" - says it all. "GUEST" in this case adds the cherry to the cake.

Anyone going to any foreign country is well advised to find out all about how stuff like its benefits system and health service works, just in case. I've seen plenty of articles in British papers with this kind of advice.

The benefits system in the UK is not particularly helpful to people from overseas. If anyone is planning to travel abroad with a view to getting benefits there are other destinations which would make much more sense from that point of view.

The problem isn't that Poles are coming to the UK to draw benefits, but that they are coming here to work, and they have a well earned reputation for being very good workers. And because of the way the way that many regulations on employers have been slashed in the name of "flexibility", and at the same time the unions have been crippled by all kinds of additional regulations and restrictions, employers can find ways of undercutting wages where foreign workers are involved.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 12:00 PM

John, Circulation. Daily Mail. 2,338,592. Mail on Sunday. 2,316,638. We can't all be wrong, so what about your paper, Daily Sport isn't it ?

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Zen
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 11:58 AM

Who was it that famously said...

I had that story in front of me briefly, now it is behind me..."?

Zen

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 11:57 AM

The Daily Mail is a great paper! The best one by far. And it has Richard Littlejohn.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 11:41 AM

Does he mean THE Daily Mail reader?
Surely there aren't 2 people in the UK stupid enough to read that tripe?

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 11:35 AM

Right back atcha, Daily Mail Reader:

Daily Mail's smear campaign against Poles

Have the courage of your convictions, Guest. If you want to express xenophobic attitudes, go right ahead - but at least be prepared to defend them without snivelling behind the cloak of anonymity.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 11:34 AM

I believe (from comments in past threads) that the Daily mail is about as reliable as the US Enquirer. Ignore the troll.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: goatfell
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 10:33 AM

I have cousins in Poland and there is nothing wrong with them so not all people from Poland are bad or over here to steal our jobs.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 10:22 AM

Interesting - to me - is that the folks who start this thread, refresh it and seem the most upset about this situation are "Guests". Hmmmm......

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Daily Mail reader
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 10:11 AM

This has to be the last straw, "Polish newspapers are running features explaining exactly how to claim benefits in the UK".

Britain's taxpayers are forking out more than £21million a year in child benefit for youngsters living in Poland, official figures reveal.

A loophole in EU regulations means migrants from other EU countries who are seeking work in the UK can claim state handouts for children they have left behind in their home countries.

The total benefits bill for the Treasury is likely to be closer to £50million a year when other Eastern European countries are included.

Britain's child benefit payments of £941 per year for a first child or £629 per year for younger siblings are far higher than the equivalent paymentsin Eastern European states that are new EU members.

The Polish benefits system, for example, pays a maximum of around £160 per year in child benefit.

Investigations have found that many workers moving to Britain are fraudulently claiming family benefits in both countries, exploiting lax checks and poor information sharing between member states.

Figures released by the Treasury in answer to Parliamentary written questions from the Conservatives show that at the end of September 26,000 Polish children from 16,286 families were being paid child benefits by UK taxpayers.

That means 16,286 first-born children were receiving the full £18.10 per week with the remaining 10,000 getting the lower payment of £12.10 per week.

The figures show that the number of claimants is soaring.

The Treasury said 14,000 families from eight Eastern European states were claiming the benefits - around 10,000 were estimated to be Polish.

At this rate of increase the benefits bill could more than double in a year, with thousands more Eastern European families joining in the benefits bonanza.

Although all the payments are legal under EU law, critics claim they provide an added incentive for immigrants to come to the UK.

Britain was one of the only EU states to give workers from eight Eastern European states full access to its jobs market when they joined the EU in 2004.

Once EU nationals have been working and paying tax in Britain for 12 months, they are entitled to the same level of state support as any British citizen, including child benefit for their children living in another EU country.

A spokesman for HM Revenue and Customs said claimants had to provide evidence to support claims for children abroad, such as a birth certificate.

It is thought that even larger sums are being paid out to Eastern European workers in tax credits - financial support provided through the tax system for those with children or on lower incomes. Ministers say, however, that total figures are "not available".

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 05:48 PM

and indeed the number of people allowed in to work, it MUST be regulated, we can no longer have open Borders.

Why should countries need to regulate immigration when counties don't?

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: selby
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 03:27 PM

We had loads of Poles round Selby who stayed after the War and I grew up with their kids. There is now a huge influx of Poles of all ages, the banks doctors and the local cathlic church all advertise their services in Polish. The supermarkeys at night like Strollin Johnnys observation are full of them. The majority are hard working and polite. It seems a pity to me that those who fought in the war did not get as much help as the new ones do but i suppose thats progress

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 02:33 PM

citizens of the acession countries are not able to claim benefits for a lenghty period when they arrive (2 years from my memory at the DWP) -they also have to pay to register and obtain their documentation to allow them to work and be registered with their employer to do this-they then have to apply for a NI number. Its not an easy road to a free ride at all. it is considerably easier for English to take the ferry to Holland nd join the benefits queue there-as a good many do.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Big Phil
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 06:30 AM

There is nothing wrong with any person of any country coming to work in the UK. There are only two problems, those that come to the UK who do NOT want to work, and indeed the number of people allowed in to work, it MUST be regulated, we can no longer have open Borders.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: mandotim
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:58 AM

I went to school with a lot of kids who had at least one Polish parent who came over during WW2. (This was in Oldham, Lancs). Where I now live there is a large Polish community in the Potteries, and lots of Polish clubs round about. Perhaps the reason why the current movement of Poles to Britain is because there is work, but also because there are some cultural reference points as a legacy of those who came earlier? Personal (but not extensive) experience of the new Polish arrivals is that they tend to be enthusiastic, skilled and very pleasant people.
tim

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,bob
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:42 AM

One died in Coronation Street last night and her death was covered up.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: gnomad
Date: 17 Apr 07 - 04:02 AM

Sorry Scoville, not intended as running down a man I admired & liked. He had a hell of a time getting here, and a very hard life once here, including being robbed of his last penny by some co-worker on his first day of his first job. I truly think being busy will have been a major part of his difficulty.

I should add that he never failed to communicate, his miming combined with the English he did acquire did the job fine, and I'm not sure that in later years he wasn't hamming it up a bit to please his audience. He loved to perform.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Scoville at Dad's
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:54 PM

To the end of his days (about 1997) however, his spoken English verged on the incomprehensible. I guess he was too busy making ends meet to be able to spend time learning yet another language.

Give the guy a break. Learning a language in adulthood is very hard, and harder yet if you don't have a natural knack for it.

We won't even go into my bad gringa accent when I speak Spanish.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 08:07 PM

quite a number of Polish & Czech pilots fought in the Battle of Britain.
(and many of them were jailed when they went back to their own countries after the war)

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 05:57 PM

they pay taxes and fuel our successful economy -they have always done so since the war when large Polish communities were established in the cities like Coventry-not unlike to large population of English who now occupy parts of France and Spain -don't understand this thread what do Poles do differently from English people?

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:58 PM

A recent news item on BBC TV stated that the Catholic church in the UK is very happy with the influx of Poles as they are boosting church attendance figures!
          Talking about figures, there's this sensational Polish girl working my local pub - I find it hard to look her straight in the eye!

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Gulliver
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 02:15 PM

I don't see what's wrong with Easyliving's attitude. If he's prepared to get by on the small amount he gets on the dole then more power to him. There are enough profiteers making far more money at poorer peoples' expense.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:24 PM

Can't really believe that last post from Easyliving. Is this a p**s-take, is it genuine, or is it what I've heard referred to as a troll or flamer. Please advise.

Possibly naively,

Andy

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Easyliving.
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 12:12 PM

I think it's fantastic that so many eastern Europeans are arriving in this country seeking employment. Otherwise there would be a government crackdown on guys like me who want to enjoy life and receive my monthly cheque from Liverpool Social Security Offices!

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 06:29 AM

well we often get French folks in too & they're not at all retiscent!

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 05:40 AM

Learn a Polish song to kick 'em off Mr H! If your Polish is as bad as mine (and I used to speak it till I was 5!) at least thy will see that they cannot do any worse:-)

D.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 05:36 AM

Frequently get groups of young Poles in our weakly session as part of the 'mystery audience'.

Though we've invited them to participate in the form of a song etc, they seem bashful & say they just enjoy to listen

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 16 Apr 07 - 04:11 AM

I teach English to foreign language speakers at a South Yorkshire college and meet a lot of Polish people who come to the college for lessons (although many have pretty good English already). These hard-working folk come to evening classes because they're grafting all day in factories and service industries. Regarding wages, one of my students, a young lady of about 23 years worked as a primary teacher in Poland after graduating. She tells me that her wage for this was about £150 per month. She gets more than this per week for her current job in KFC and still teaches kids Polish at a local Polish ex-servicemens club on Saturday mornings. The Poles, I find are good mannered, intelligent, value education and hard work and have decent moral and social standards. The are shocked (and amused) by UK levels of illegitimacy amongst young teenagers and some of the behaviours they witness on our streets and via the media. Although not a religious person myself, I can believe that this may be to do with the social influence that religion still has in Poland and the Poles' respect for traditional family values. As Shimrod says, it would be nice to think that these new citizens will bring a hint of civilisation to this country! We can but hope!

Regards
Andy

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 09:29 AM

How far it's emigratiion in most cases is open to doubt. It's more a case of moving for work in the expectation of going home to live, in time. Of course that's always the dream of emigrants, and, as always, many will end up staying, which is good for us, though often enough sad for them.

Any news of Poles enriching our folk scene so far?

"I live in Reading and haven't seen many of them in this area." How do you know? They don't look too different, do they?

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 08:26 AM

Maybe what they have come to is still better than what they have left behind.

Many who have emigrated over the years start as you describe - but they progress because they are of the mind set that enables that. They have already uprooted to better themselves, don't think they will stop there.

And they unselfishly do it for their future generations. There will always be some ready to exploit them. That has never proved a barrier when people consider emigrating.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: ard mhacha
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 06:26 AM

There are thousands of Poles and other ethnic groups in the north of Ireland, the mid-Ulster area has seen large numbers of Poles working in food packing firms.
There is no significant numbers attending the local Catholic churches in the north reports from the churches bear this out, like our youth religion is way down the list, they are over here to be exploited by their employers and the the greedy landlords who are housing them in unfit hovels at exorbitant rent.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 15 Apr 07 - 03:10 AM

Lots of Polish people in Lincolnshire. Many have been here since WWII, presumably because Lincs had many Polish airmen working and flying from the RAF airfields which were sited here. A good few stayed on after the war (married English girls and settled down here, presumably).

There are also a lot of newbies, mostly young. They seem to be a polite and happy crowd. Some evenings in our local Tesco it's unusual to hear English being spoken (or maybe it just seems that way!).

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Gulliver
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 02:45 PM

There are lots of Poles in Ireland too, I think approaching 200,000 at this stage. There's a Polish-language newspaper supplement and about a dozen Polish shops in Dublin, plus cafés, etc. They are good workers, honest and intelligent. They appear to be more conservative than the locals and fill the Catholic churches, that had been emptying over the past few years, to capacity. Occasionally a few dropped into our Tuesday-night session which is next door to their main church, but I think they got put off by our extremely fast rate of beer consumption!

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: gnomad
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 09:30 AM

I believe that many of our service industries, and also our agriculture, would be struggling for workers by now, were it not for this inflow of hard-working people from all over eastern Europe.

I do wonder about the lands they leave behind though; if we are acquiring a significant proportion of their best-educated and most-motivated workers then who is "minding the shop" back home? The cash they are sending back home will no doubt help, but it can't be good for any country to keep losing the cream of its workers. Not even if they come back later.

One of my Father's side of the family married a Pole just after WW2, he had got here as a refugee. He was unfailingly good-humoured, and kind, one of the small band of my relatives of whom I think well. To the end of his days (about 1997) however, his spoken English verged on the incomprehensible. I guess he was too busy making ends meet to be able to spend time learning yet another language.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 09:03 AM

There has always been a large Polish commuity here in Manchester - I know, I'm one of them! Well, half anyway. My Dad's Polish. There is a large Polish Club in Cheetham Hill that was established in the 50's and is still going strong. Since the influx after WW2 many people have seen the Poles as being hard working inteligent people who have always integrated well and got on with everyone in general. I think that is being repeated now. To my delight there are even Polish shops opening close to me in Salford. These sell many Polish products at a much lower price that the 'specialist' shops have done before and even undercut a lot of the big chains on basic items like coffee and bread. There seems to be a sybiosis occuring unlike anything I have seen before and long may it continue!

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 08:07 AM

There's a stand near our local Underground station for a Polish free newspaper. Cheerily printed on the side of it is the legend 'don't even bother if you can't read Polish'. It is frequently empty before the corresponding Metro paper bin is.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:45 AM

I've got a bit of a soft spot for the Poles. When I was growing up, in Peterborough, in the 1950s, there were a lot of Polish people around - presumably refugees from the War - which, incidentally, tore Poland apart.

When the Polish communist regime was replaced by rampant capitalism in the early 1990s, the company I was working for at the time acquired a couple of Polish companies. I then found myself with lots of new Polish colleagues. I liked them immediately - very intelligent, very hard working and with good senses of humour; and many of them spoke excellent English (whilst I don't have a hope in Hell's chance of learning Polish!). Business trips to Warsaw were always a pleasure - good accommodation, good food and the feeling of being in a civilised country for grown-ups - as opposed to the puerile mess run by and for spoilt teenagers that Britain has become.

Who knows, perhaps our new Polish citizens might even succeed in civilising us (although they've got a big job on!).

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,kenny
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 06:10 AM

I was on a flight from London to Aberdeen on Tuesday - the safety announcement was repeated in Polish. Many posters for events in Torry in Aberdeen are now dual-language, the 2nd being Polish. I agree with what "Giok" says above.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Apr 07 - 04:25 AM

They're good because they're hungry Patty. In the west we have become complacent and lazy, and many people feel the world owes them a living. Poor education, poor school discipline, irresponsible kids, all these things are contributory factors. Get rich quick, get rich easy programmes on TV, entertainers and sportsmen earning obscene wages, lottery programmes, poker TV, etc etc.
Learning and erudition are no longer respected or properly rewarded, and Mammon rules OK.
There is also no history of social support in these Mittel European countries, so if you don't work you starve, so they at least still cherish, and believe in the work ethic.
We have something approaching 6000 poles in and around Inverness, and they work in building, in agriculture, and in fish processing. Once a month the local paper publishes a Polish language supplement, and lots of the bars in town now sell Polish beers.
They are here to stay, and while some will return to Poland when they have made some money, others will come to take their place. They certainly make the locals look to their laurels when it comes to willingness to work!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,patty o'dawes
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 07:34 PM

Have come into contact with many, many Polish workers on business in London. And the immediate thing that strikes me is their command of the English language could put many born and bred here to shame...now I am only talking really about females in the business world - banking/lawyers offices and accountancy firms.

Have no idea if their level of education is far higher in Poland, but they sure as hell turn out some very bright women.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:47 PM

Well none living in Wilderness Road Earling! I once lived on Tilehurst Road.

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: bubblyrat
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:16 PM

Canada is one of the largest countries on earth, and vast tracts of it are some of the world"s least populated spaces. Britain, on the other hand, is ,by comparison, a tiny island, with barely enough room for the indigenous population, which is rapidly approaching a population overload.Also, the Polish people who come here,generally have no intention of settling here, and are merely here to make as much money as possible, in the shortest possible time : money which mostly goes out of this country---to Poland !! Of course, if the European Union people were to honour their grandiose plans, then Poland, having just joined that ridiculous organisation , would have the same standard of living, and the same wages, as Britain, but there"s no chance of that happening for the forseeable future !! And the guy who hasn"t seen any Poles in Reading ( Guest-Bob)--Well, Bob, I"m from Henley, mate, and I grew up and went to school with Poles ---They"ve been here since the end of WW2 , in Henley--Nettlebed--Bix--Sonning Common --Emmer Green------and so on !! Now, there"s a lot more !! ( even in Tilehurst !! )

Subject: RE: BS: Polish Workforce in Britain
From: terrier
Date: 13 Apr 07 - 06:06 PM

Just heard on the news today, evidently it is now the white asparragus harvesting season in Germany. The German growers traditionally rely on Polish workers coming in for the harvest but because of new earnings related laws in Germany which would hit the wages of the workers severely, the Poles are boycotting the harvest and unless the asparragus is harvested at the right time, it is worthless to the growers.