BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: CarolC
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 12:04 PM

Hybrid SUVs, rarelamb.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 11:02 AM

stop the Killing

Here I found this.

"Nor will increasing CAFE standards halt the alleged problem of "global warming." Cars and light trucks subject to fuel economy standards make up only 1.5 percent of all global man-made greenhouse gas emissions. According to data published in 1991 by the Office of Technology Assessment,

    A 40 percent increase in fuel economy standards would reduce greenhouse emissions by only about 0.5 percent, even under the most optimistic assumptions. 17

The NRC additionally noted that "greenhouse gas emissions from the production of substitute materials, such as aluminum, could substantially offset decreases of those emissions achieved through improved fuel economy." 18"

Stop the killing!   Redrum! Redrum! Stop the Killing!

Oh the humanity.....

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 28 Sep 05 - 10:46 AM

Feel free to post any supporting evidence to your hypothesis. I think you will have some difficulty.

Stop the killing! Stop the killing! Stop the killing!

:) :)   :)    :)    :)    :)

Hey hey, EPA; How many kids you kill today! Hey Hey EPA; How many kids you kill today!

ROFL

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: beardedbruce
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 03:23 PM

CarolC,

Agreement with you on the need to look at the total impact, including pollution caused illness and death.

BUT, one has to look at the increased environmental impact of hybrid and other "green" technologies over their lifetimes, including manufacturing and end-of-life disposal. Solar cells have little impact when in use- but I don't want to live anywhere near the place they are manufactured, nor the dump where old ones are disposed of. Way too many hazardous chemicals...

One set of pollution values is not sufficient for evaluation- one needs to have

1 Manufacturing/installation
2 Operation/fuel
3 End-of-life disposal

environmental costs, at a minimum

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 03:09 PM

People now have the choice to buy hybrid SUVs, so it's really a non-issue. And we still haven't addressed the issue of how many people die every year from pollution related illnesses. My guess is that far more deaths have resulted from pollution than from CAFE standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 01:15 PM

Here are some tasty links:

stop the killing 1

"A new study by the Competitive Enterprise Institute, a national think tank in Washington D.C., shows that, for 2000, this translated into 2,500 to 4,400 additional deaths nationwide."

stop the killing 2

"Two recent automobile surveys confirm that there is a tradeoff between fuel economy and safety. The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) rated the Geo Metro, which gets 44 mpg, at the top of its list of most fuel efficient cars. That same week in October, the Metro ranked near the top of a list compiled by the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) -- of the most dangerous cars. The death rate for the two-door Metro was twice as high as the average rate of all cars surveyed.

The IIHS said in a press release that this survey's results "reinforce the conclusion that bigger is better when it comes to protecting people in passenger vehicles from crash death and injuries." Clearly, consumers should be the ones who decide how best to balance their need for fuel economy against safety. "

stop the killing 3

"CAFE kills people," Kazman noted. According to the NHTSA's own data, he pointed out, mandatory fuel requirements cause up to 3,000 deaths per year.

Oh the humanity....

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 12:57 PM

Ron couldn't find your article.

Did you guys notic ehte name of the national academy of sciences report?

Effectiveness and Impact of CAFE Standards 2002

2002....

but let's say that 2k died in 2 years only. Then environmentalists have killed more Americans than Al Queda.   How do you like them apples :)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 07:42 AM

"Environmentalist (sic) have killed more US citizens than were killed in Vietnam". If you believe such tripe, Rare Lamb, you are even more gullible than I had thought--and you set a high standard in that regard.


I was just reading an article on the subject of safety and small versus large vehicles. Title: "'How US Shifted Gears to Find Small Cars Can Be Safe Too"--"Studies Discover Size, Quality Are As Important as Weight".

According to David L. Greene, research fellow at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, DOE research lab: Mr. Greene says " that previous research that did find a correlation (between fuel economy and increased traffic fatalities) studied only the immediate years after fuel economy reform when weight drops were most significant. But studied over a longer period, that correlation disappears, he says".

Source: that WKLR (well-known leftist rag), the Wall St. Journal.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 09:27 PM

I rather think that fantasies about how the environment doesn't really matter may turn out to have been drowned in the Gulf. The Gulf of Mexcico that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 03:26 PM

Rarelamb.

I went into the site you linked to to try to find something which explained or backed your supposition an in the first link I found this.

"But later came another NHTSA report, using more complete data than were available for its earlier study, showing that -- surprise -- driving in America is actually safer than ever. While the number of traffic deaths in 2002 rose in absolute terms from the previous year, the fatality rate per vehicle mile traveled dropped -- continuing a trend that has been evident for over three decades.2 No one should be surprised that the number of highway fatalities rose slightly; after all, America's population is increasing, as is the number of vehicles and the miles driven on our roads. This is why the fatalities per vehicle mile traveled is the most accurate measurement of auto safety."

There is also an admonition not to believe government reports.

So the real message of the site is, "If you want to delude yourself, this is the site for you."

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 03:17 PM

I wonder how many athsma-related deaths have been prevented by those very same CAFE standards since 1975.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 01:52 PM

Oh, rarelamb? Your claiming that meeting the fuel efficiency standards imposed by the "environmentalists" (What?? You're not an environmentalist? Don't you care about the air you breathe? Don't you care whether we leave viable nature for your children and grandchildren?) are causing additional deaths through lighter weight vehicles is a little shortsighted, imo.

We have a host of remedies and options. We could impose lower speed limits for all vehicles. We could speed the development and installation of contact inhibitors on our cars. We could re-instate interstate rail service for commerce, complete with truck container carriage capacity. If the people call for it, the money for research and developmnet and the technical people eager to get in on the action - and the money - will be there.

There are many, many ways to go besides what we now consider the norm.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 12:53 PM

I have posted that :

-We went to Gulf I to protect oil
-Al Queda attacked the US because we had to maintain bases in Saudi Arabia because of the no fly zones and as a deterrent to Saddam
-We had to take out Saddam because of our bases destabilizing the area
-We should have trusted the market place and business men to use substitute products ( plenty of oil )and conserve.

-We should not have gone into Gulf I

I will now add:

-Environmentalist have killed more US citizens than were killed in Vietnam.
stop the killing

-CAFE standards have killed approximately 2000 people a year since 1975 or 60,000 people. That's blood on the hands of our environmentalists.

Kinda puts US losses in Iraq in perspective doesn't it? My question is where are the Cindy Sheehans of the world to protest this wholesale slaughter of American blood?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 08:31 AM

Thanks, Art.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: artbrooks
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 08:21 AM

VA Fact Sheet on DU

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 07:15 AM

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/faq_17apr.htm

"A common misconception is that radiation is depleted uranium's primary hazard. This is not the case under most battlefield exposure scenarios. Depleted uranium is approximately 40 percent less radioactive than natural uranium. Depleted uranium emits alpha and beta particles, and gamma rays. Alpha particles, the primary radiation type produced by depleted uranium, are blocked by skin, while beta particles are blocked by the boots and battle dress utility uniform (BDUs) typically worn by service members. While gamma rays are a form of highly-penetrating energy , the amount of gamma radiation emitted by depleted uranium is very low. Thus, depleted uranium does not significantly add to the background radiation that we encounter every day."


I DO NOT argue that DP is harmless- but radiation is NOT the problem.

also...http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs257/en/

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: beardedbruce
Date: 26 Sep 05 - 06:49 AM

Donuel,

"Depleted Uranium is also a weapon of mass destruction in amount and killing/mutations.

The amoungt of radiation is tens of thousands times more than the bombs we dropped on Japan."


Can you provide ANY documentation from a reputable source on this? Are you even aware of what the half-life of Uranium is?

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 09:36 PM

"Every public and undeclared enemy of...everyone else."

I think that goes a little too far. That would imply making common cause with public and undeclared enemies of, say, the present government in Iran, or Cuba. Including the most prominent among those, the US Government.

I know these "terrorists of the Islamic persuasion" have happily cooperated with the US government in the past, and vice versa, but I have a feeling that, at this point, it is unlikely that they will be holding hands and dancing together.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: mg
Date: 25 Sep 05 - 03:00 PM

Don't worry only about the terrorists of the Islamic persuasion. They have and will join forces with every public and undeclared enemy of America and everyone else. Mafia, Tongs, the last of the old-guard Nazis, street gangs, IRa, drug cartels, etc. We only see the tip of the iceberg but they are all holding hands and dancing underneath the surface and have as many weapons as they want. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: number 6
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:34 PM

Yeah .... I'm amazed how the U.S. has not learned the lesson ... Vietnam wasn't that far off from memory.

I find the following lyrics relate to what's happening. The U.S. has no excuse for the mistake of Iraq.

"The devil made me do it the first time,
the second time I did it on my own"
- Billy Joe Shaver

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:25 PM

Yeah, sIx, exactly what Iz tryin' to say... Bob McNamara knew all about nummers... He knew that the American people would certainly support an endless war, even if it were unwinnable as long a at the end of the day thier(the Viet Cong and North BVietnamese) dead surpassed those of out troops... (Heck with the S. Vietnamese... They didn't really ever count in the poloitcis... Yeah, Bobert, go tell some kid whoe's dad 'er mom was fightyin' with the South Vietnamese!!!)

Ain't gonna get into them nummers other than to say that trhey represent added-on failures by Johnson/Nixon folks...

The war was wrong... It was unwinnable by anyone other than the Vietnamese people... The US lost... No, they wouldn't have won if thwey nuked Vietnam, so don't even go there....

The US ain't learned much about being a super power...

Taskes more to being a super power than a big stick...

Big stick like a cap-'n-ball Colt:

"Getta ya into trouble
but it won't get ya' out"

(Steve Earle from "The Devil's Right Hand")

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: number 6
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 11:06 PM

Robert McNamara ... where are ya when we need ya ?!?!?!

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 09:36 PM

First of all, I'd like to congratulate Mr. Bush on reducing the number of killed day to approximately 100 folks...

But I'd also like to re-issue my challenge to the popster who said that Saddam was at 157 to provide the number that Sddam was killin' on any given day in the six months beofre the USD invasion...

This is what I have been tryin' to point out about statistics... Thay can be very misleading...

Hey, given the nuclear bombs dropped on Japan at the ned of WWII, I'm sure a statistican could paint a stat thjat would look like the US is averaging the killiong of _____ number of Japanese per day???

I would hope that in future disussions that folks would shy away from stats that come to them from sources other than credible sources...

The 157 number is as suspect as the 100 number I threw out for example, though the 100 number is probably closer to being accurate over the time defined from the invasion until today, whereas the Saaddam number seems to just come from no particular time frame...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 09:20 PM

And Pilate washed his hands...

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: pdq
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 07:46 PM

Grab,

Those questions were intended to be a slightly facetious introduction to the "Saddam's Life" timeline.

Point is, I suppose, that nobody could create a creep like Saddam.

As far as "buying him", I believe it is the other way around. When a Third World leader receives billions of dollars annually in oil revenue, that man has a choice: help his people and "do the right thing", or buy arms and kill people. Saddam's life shows a pre-disposition to do the latter.

Anybody who waves billions of dollars in the face of arms dealers will be able to buy anything he wants. The world just works that way.

Once he received the arms, he disd not have to use them. He did. His choice, not ours.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 07:45 PM

Jacl the sailor, yes by those standards I bet you are right.

Depleted Uranium is also a weapon of mass destruction in amount and killing/mutations.

The amoungt of radiation is tens of thousands times more than the bombs we dropped on Japan.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/metalofdishonor3.jpg

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 07:04 PM

And Saddam did actually ask the US for the go-ahead before he invaded Kuwait, as he appears to have done for his earlier aggression against Iran. Or he thought he had.

However the reported reassurance to him by April Glaspie, the
US ambassador to Iraq, to the effect that the US "has no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait", turned out not to match with how Washington decided to play it.

That's the problem with being a tolerated thug, working for respected gentry. Sometimes they decide you're a liability, and they take out a contract on you. Mafia Dons or World Leaders, it's basically the same game.

This Encyclopedia site brings together a lot of stuff about the whole background, and doesn't actually appear to be politically loaded.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Grab
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 10:30 AM

1. When he was a nice guy.
2. When the US forced him to become a thug.
3. When we bought him.

To answer these points PDQ, see the links below for all the info you could want.

As for points 1 and 2, he was *always* a thug (see first link below). But he was a thug armed by the US, UK and other Western governments and financed by those governments' desire for cheap oil. Also the USSR as well.

Initially the British didn't care about him (he was just another tinpot dictator), but then he hadn't started massacring Iraqi civilians yet. In the 80s though, the US backed him because Iraq had gone to war with Iran, and Iran was considered the major enemy. So that's where 3 comes in. And all through the time the US and UK supported him, he was actively using his weapons of mass destruction (namely chemical weapons) on Kurdish and Shiite areas.

Daily Telegraph link
BBC timeline and Western support of Hussein

Basically, if he hadn't invaded Kuwait and thereby put everyone's oil supplies at risk, then I reckon he'd still have backing from the US and UK today.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: akenaton
Date: 24 Sep 05 - 04:59 AM

Surely the US military machine is in itself a "weapon of mass destruction.

Just ask the families of Fallujah.....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 09:35 PM

Has the US Used more than two WMD's?

Timothy McVeigh was convicted of using a WMD. By that definition, the Justice Department's, pretty much every bomb they've dropped in anger from an aircraft in the last 50 years is a wmd.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: number 6
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 08:59 PM

One favourite quote of mine from Mohandas Gandhi is:

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.

So true.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 06:53 PM

The Gandhi (not "Ghandi" please!) quote comes from when he visited London in 1931, and a reporter asked him what he thought of "Western Civilisation". He tactfully replied "I think it would be a good idea".

Tactfully, because on another occasions he wrote "It is my firm opinion that Europe does not represent the spirit of God or Christianity but the spirit of Satan. And Satan�s successes are the greatest when he appears with the name of God on his lips."

And at another time "I consider western Christianity in its practical working a negation of Christ's Christianity."

I imagine he'd have said today that things haven't changed that much. (As for Al Qaeda and that crew, I think Gandhi would have definitely seen them as a negation of the Islamic vision.)

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 04:26 PM

Not to be outdone was the Stone outside Dan Murphy`s door, he had a world of wisdom.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: number 6
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 03:47 PM

The Rosetta Stone .... Very, very good .... LOL.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: pdq
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 03:41 PM

Real big. Goes clear back to the family matriarch Rosetta Stone.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 02:37 PM

It makes you wonder how large Oliver Stone's family really is.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 02:36 PM

Well, that's the way these discussions go. One thing leads to another. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST,Takamine Yamaha
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 02:29 PM

rarelamb I have to agree with you on that. What's even worse it that it was a rather dumb thread to begin with. Old Europe, western civilization being terrorized by Islamic terrorist to criticisms of Steve Earl and then on to the conviction of the Rosenberg's. I thing they should give out a life time supply of Ritalin to anyone who registers with the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 02:09 PM

LMAO, boy this thread's quality has been gone down hill!

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 02:07 PM

Don Firth:
I got to view a very old CIA memo regarding the proposed arrest and conviction of the Rosenbergs.

It pointed out how a national trial would help keep radical Jews in line in the midst of the cold war.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Don Firth
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 01:58 PM

Wolfgang, I was fully aware of that. What I am trying to point out is that if one already has fissionable material, the actual building of a bomb is not that difficult.

There is still a great deal of question about whether the Rosenbergs gave the Soviets any information at all, let alone information that their physicists didn't already know.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: number 6
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 11:46 AM

I wouldn't really call it a hate forum ... but more like a reflection of what the U.S. has evolved into ... more of a reflection of it's 2 party system ... which in itself has turned into left or right ... right or wrong ... ying or yang. There is a deep rooted problem in the U.S. now ... it's not just the Iraq war and the amount of murdered argued in statistics ... I find this disturbing, that some mother's child a victim of injustice whether in Iraq or inner Philadelphia is argued in some statsitic ... it's appears to me (anyway) that American society is alienating itself from it's human roots and human rationality .... they have blinders on ... desperating seeking an answer from something, while being defensive about any perceptions from outside of their own self sphere that they can't comprehend.

That's sIx's 2 cent's worth on all of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 10:00 AM

It is indeed a "hate forum" here, always has been

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: GUEST,rarelamb
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 09:58 AM

It has been US policy for decades to protect the oil in the middle east. Our experience with $60 + oil and my faith in capitalism leads me to believe that this policy is erroneous.

-We went to war in Iraq the first time to protect oil.
-We set up bases in Saudi Arabia for the no fly zones and because we didnt trust Saddam.
-Al Queda wants us out. They attack the US.
-We goto the the middle east and fight 2 wars.

All of this could have been avoided if we had faith in our business people. When oil reaches these levels, it is not the end of the world.

There are plenty of substitute products and there are plenty of profit maximizing individuals/firms who will find ways to conserve energy.

I don't like the fact that our foreign policy people still haven't figured out what Adam Smith figured out 200+ years ago: wars generally make little financial sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 08:42 AM

Like the Arch Duke Ferdinand, Saddam may become the figure head that unleashes a war far beyond his legacy of evil or importence.

The elephant in the room is the detonation of any sized nuke on any given day, by anyone with the capacity to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 08:39 AM

Now, now, Ard the wrath of McGrath may be on you:

Spelling of names.

Don Firth,
your argument that the Rosenbergs were hanged for something a little boy could understand is wrong. The description you have read as a little boy starts with the assumption you have a subcritical mass of fissionable material. What comes then is fairly easy. How to produce fissionable material out of raw uranium was the difficult bit you have not been told about in the magazine.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 08:03 AM

Like I've said before, stats don't mean too much...

Let's say that an airliner goes down killing 365 people today... and thast none go down fir the next year... A stat guy can say that one person, on average, dies from an ailiner going down at a rate of one per day...

Thta;s kinda like the 157 people killed by Saddam...

I've asked folks who poat this to tell me how many people Saddam killed the, ohh, on the day before Iraq was invaded but haven't gotten an answer...

Or the Tuesdau before???

Er the Tuesday a month before???

And just fuir the record, seein' as my trusty Wes Ginny Slide Rule is sleepin' in this mornion', what is Bush's per day killin' numbers???

Prolly in the 157 range himself...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: sapper82
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 05:55 AM

It is interesting that, amongst all the postings either blaming the USA for the problems in the Middle East or defending the actons of the USA, little is made about the role of the USSR and the political atmosphere of the Cold War.
As much as the USA supported regimes that appeared to oppose Communism, the USSR was instrumental in arming and supporting groups it thought were anti-US.
Most of the weaponry of the radical Arab states was Warsaw Pact in origin as much as the weaponry of the moderate states was provided by NATO. That was the nature of the the times when "My enemy's enemy must be my friend" became the ruling creed.

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: ard mhacha
Date: 23 Sep 05 - 05:16 AM

Now, now, McGrath give the great Mahatma Ghandi credit for the quote, "Western civilisation?, what a good idea".

Subject: RE: BS: Terrorists target Western Civilization
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Sep 05 - 11:56 PM

He was never a nice guy. The US didn't "force" him to be a thug. As a thug, he was much more useful to the US than he would have been as a "nice guy". He was our thug. This is how we bought him...

_________________________________


"Real power plays all sides of any conflict, alternately supporting and subverting (from within and without), playing one side against another, "managing the tension," until desired results are achieved.

A well-documented example is Afghanistan, where, in the wake of the Afghan-Soviet War, the US has installed and then violently overthrown successive regimes (Rabbani, Hekmatyr, Northern Alliance, Taliban), until a satisfying result was eventually achieved: a US puppet government, headed by former Unocal consultant and CIA asset Hamid Karzai, narco-trafficking warlord/bandits of the Northern Alliance, and helped along by US envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, Pentagon-intelligence insider, former Unocal consultant, and assistant to current Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz.

In Iraq, the US and CIA have been playing a similar game for decades, running paramilitaries and armed groups with roots going back to Iran-Iraq war of the 1980s and beyond. 'Americans have been left in the dark concerning CIA maneuvers in the Middle East, fed a steady diet of fantasy mush in which Arabs and Muslims are inexorably tagged as irrational, fanatical terrorists,' wrote Kurdish journalist Husayn Al-Kurdi. 'The actual history of CIA involvement in the region tells a far different story.'

The CIA's direct role in Iraq stretches back to the 1950s. Saddam Hussein himself was a US creation, a US ally and a CIA asset. As noted by Al-Kurdi, 'after propping up the corrupt regime of Nuri Said, the USA went after Abdul Karim-Kassem, whose popularly-supported coup eliminated the old British agent Nuri in 1958. Among those whom the CIA recruited to do its dirty work were the Iraqi Baath Party, including a brash power-hungry adventurer named Saddam Hussein.' The CIA then engineered the overthrow and assassination of Kassem in 1963, with Saddam playing a major role in the Kassem hit and subsequent liquidations of Communists.

Throughout the ensuring decades to the start of the Gulf War in 1990, Saddam was a key US ally in the region, as well as a US trading partner, and a business associate of George Herbert Walker Bush. (In another hemisphere, Panamanian strongman Manuel Noriega played a similar role over the same period.) The Bush administration's National Security Decision Directives (exposed in an LA Times investigation in 1992), as well as records detailing the Bush-Saddam relationships through the notorious BCCI and Banco Nacional del Lavoro (BNL) scandals, offer clear evidence that Saddam Hussein's government was explicitly and knowingly armed and financed by the US and personally involved with Bush.

After the Gulf War, in the guise of a "Kurd safe haven," the CIA created a protectorate and base for covert activities designed to destabilize the Iraqi regime, while allowing the suppression of Kurds and Muslims to continue simultaneously. Under George H.W. Bush, the CIA reportedly spent $20 million in anti-Saddam propaganda, and at least $11 million in aid to a number of Iraqi and Kurd opposition groups.

As Al-Kurdi points out: 'It was clear from the beginning that the "safe haven" was an operation to provide "cover" for CIA operations against Iraq and Turkish crackdowns on Kurds�not "comfort," as its official designation implied. A state of dependence was reinforced in which the "providers" could keep their Kurdish puppets on short strings.'

When Shi'ite Muslims in southern Iraq staged a revolt against Saddam in the spring of 1991 under the watchful eye of the CIA, the Bush I administration permitted Saddam's Iraqi troops to crush the revolt. To prevent a popular Islamic movement within Iraq (one that could threaten western oil interests and business interests), Bush did nothing as his former partner and vanquished foe crushed the revolt.

Keeping Saddam Hussein alive but neutered (via sanctions, no-fly zones, etc.) allowed the US to keep military forces in Saudi Arabia, while plans for an eventual Iraq regime change were debated. In the meantime, the rebuilding of Iraq, and various forms of covert trade, was lucrative to a number of western corporations (such as Halliburton, General Electric and others). The black market was also means of control. 'By turning a blind eye to smuggled oil,' writes former CIA operative Robert Baer in his book See No Evil, "the US managed to turn the Kurdish opposition against itself even as it helped Saddam pay for his praetorian guard, just what you'd expect of a clever superpower that was secretly supporting the local despot.'"