BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Doug_Remley
Date: 20 May 03 - 01:38 AM

I spent a few years in my thirties designing and flying RC types. The heavy wing loading of military fighters made for large engines. Much more fun were tiny engine, big wings for VTOL and flight time. The Storch was a beautiful plane followed by the Pilatus.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 May 03 - 12:13 AM

Once I got past the amateur stage I mostly built them with the landing gear down, and placed them on shelves or in cabinets, preferably behind glass...because of the dust problem. At this point I have on display a Japanese type 99 Val, a Zero 52b, and a Shinden...a Hellcat...a Bf-109G and an Arado 234, nicely free of dust, plus a few tanks in 1/35 scale.

Models that are hung from ceilings get incredibly dusty pretty fast.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Cluin
Date: 19 May 03 - 11:19 PM

I did that as a kid, Charley. I had about a dozen of `em up there. I remember a Messerschmidt, a Sopwith Camel, a Fokker Triplane, a Lockheed P-38, a P-51 Mustang...

My largest was a big B-17 "Flying Fortress" about 14" long. It was so heavy that the thumbtacks would never hold it up and it kept dropping down to the carpet below every few weeks or so. Every time I hung it up again, there would be a piece missing.

Talk about surreal looking.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Doug_Remley
Date: 19 May 03 - 10:20 PM

When I was a kid I always thought the SE-5A was sexy but for best all-around use learned tha Pfalz series was best. Anthony Fokker's memoirs say the D-VII was a hurry-up job to meet absurd specs. He didn't think anyone could fly it. But it was breathtaking in action.

In terms of WWII, ah, if the P-40 had ever been supercharged as designed! Best was the Skunkworks P-38 but it was huge! Probably the later Corsair fulfilled mot necessary all-around tasks.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 May 03 - 07:27 PM

So how many of you hung your models on your bedroom ceilings? My brother and I had this incredible dog fight going on, although the planes did tend to get dusty or festooned with spider webs after a few years, kind of ghostly when I think back on it.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: catspaw49
Date: 19 May 03 - 05:05 PM

The P-51 to me was the top fighter of the war (WWII). I love a lot of others and it's hard to pick it over some great designs such as the Spit and the FW190, but from any standpoint of performance to do the job of a fighter, it did so many things well, if not the best, that any other choice requires far more justification.

It's final variation was in fact a new design but was known as the Twin Mustang...or the F-82 and was the last prop driven fighter ordered in quantity by the USAF.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: The Walrus
Date: 19 May 03 - 03:38 PM

On the P-51 (sorry, creeping the thread back to WWII), there is a story, (probably apocraphal)about the external fuel tanks, apparently they were made of a 'paper-derived' composite (IIRC a dense, heavy, resin filled, cardboard like material, suitably proofed, with raw rubber interlining and aluminium foil coatings).
The story goes that before they went into service an enquiry went 'up the line' to the technical branch (or whatever it's called)of the USAAF as to the feasibility of these tanks being offered.
Such were the delays caused by distance, burocracy and 'farming out' of the work, that the fighters had been using these 'war economy' tanks for some months before a message came back saying that they wouldn't work.

I can't vouch for the truth, but I always thought it a decent tale.

Regard

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Les from Hull
Date: 19 May 03 - 11:59 AM

Leprechaun - that Dehavilland is a de Havilland, and the company made a number of different models that made it into squadron service. The fighers were the DH2 - a pusher biplane single seater that helped overcome the Fokker Menace (Eindekkers) and the DH5 was a tractor biplane with a curious backward stagger. And I wouldn't really believe anything that Mr Fokker said either. A notorious self-publicist and truth stretcher!

So my favourite WW1 plane? Siemens-Schuckert DIV for a fighter, but for real fun check out the German R-planes like the Staakens. The Putnam book 'The German Giants' (ISBN 0 85177 812 7) gives full details of design and operation.

The Whirlwind was a Westland design (WEW Petter) and I don't think it was based on the DH Comet, although it looked similar. It did 360mph, entered squdron service in June 1940 and had four 20mm cannon. But the Rolls Royce Peregrine engines were a bit suspect so production finished in 1942. A later Petter design, the Welkin, was designed to operate up to 44,000ft, but the German high altitude bombers and reccy 'planes never materialsed so they were never issued to a squadron.

The P51 was a North American design (Raymond Rice and Edgar Schuel) which came about when the company said they could produce a new 'plane rather than the Curtiss Hawk 81A-1 (P40 Warhawk) us Brits had asked them to make for us. From order to prototype in 120 days!

Favourites for WW2? It's got to be the 'wooden wonder' the de Havilland Mosquito - unarmed fast bomber, photo reconnaissance, night fighter, day fighter, maritime strike, even a carrier-based torpedo reconnaissance just after the war. Along with the Ju88 it did everything, but was a later design than the Junkers, and better-looking as well. But for pure looks only - the Martin-Baker MB5.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 May 03 - 11:26 AM

The Whirlwind is an interesting one, produced by Westland, but not in very great numbers. I'm still hoping Tamiya will do a 1/48 kit of it at some point.

The Me-262 deserves mention here, since people are getting into WWII planes. It's a gorgeous looking airframe, and was far and away the most advanced fighter of that war.

Another interesting and rare bird is the Kyushu Shinden, a Japanese fighter with an immense six-bladed pusher propellor and a canard design (tail at the front, wings at the back). It would have made a perfect configuration for a jet engine, but they used a conventional radial engine instead, and it was very fast and heavily armed (four 30 mm cannon in the nose, like the Me-262).

And my favourite Japanese fighter to fly: The Ki-84 Hayate (Frank)...just a superb fighter in every way.

Lockheed's P-38 Lightning is neat too...totally unique in appearance and very effective.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Teribus
Date: 19 May 03 - 08:22 AM

Thanks for the corrections Walrus,

On the P-51:

It's design specifications and requirements were driven entirely by the RAF in the form of an order from the British Purchasing Commission in 1940. Originally powered with an Allison engine, trials showed the aircraft to be best suited to aerial recon and ground attack, as it's performance dropped off dramatically above 12,000ft.

The British modified the airframes of two Allison engined Mustangs to mount Rolls-Royce Merlin engines. Combined with the aircraft's low drag airframe and laminar flow wings, the new engine provided an aircraft with truly staggering, at the time, top end speed.

One saying coined during WW II that describes the Mustang well:

"The Mustang won't do what a Spitfire does, but it does it over Berlin"

P51s had a staggering range upwards of 2,000 miles (full operational distance for most bombers) when fitted with drop-tanks. I have the pilots notes for the type including some quirks, they used to fly bomber escort for American day-light raids over Germany. Initially they would use the fuel in the external tanks first. If engaged early in the mission, these tanks had to be jettisoned. The main fuel tank was in the fuselage just behind the pilot, for a short period around the time when the tank was two-thirds full, the aircraft became very difficult to trim and awkward to handle in combat. This effect apparently did not last long but, in the pilots words was "unsettling".

Both the Whirlwind and the Mosquito were based on the DH88 design.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: The Walrus
Date: 19 May 03 - 07:07 AM

Terribus,

Just a couple of points.

The 'wing-top'gun on the SE 5 was a Lewis with the 'infantry' cooling jacket removed and a 96 round magazine fitted, not a Vickers 'K' (the 'K' is a 1930s design I think).
The technique you describe of shooting into the 'blind spot'was a favourite of 'Billy' Bishop, apparently, he kept his lewis gun in the 'loading' position on the quadrant mount (pointing almost straight upward) dived under his opponent (who thought himself safe as most single seat 'planes fired forward) and stitched them from tail to engine (or t'other way).

WWII. Wasn't the P 51 'Mustang' an American design?

I'm glad someone mentioned the DH Whirlwind, I'd quite forgotten it(would I be right in thinking it was based on the DH 88 from the Britain-Australia race?).

Regards

Walrus

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Teribus
Date: 19 May 03 - 04:38 AM

WW I Fighter - SE-5A, it just "looked" right. Something about an aircraft of that period that was so well behaved in the air that it would allow the pilot to change drum magazines for the Vickers-K gun mounted on the top of the upper wing during a dog-fight. The SE-5A had two machine guns one fixed firing through the propellor the second mounted to fire forward and upward (the angle could be changed by the pilot to suit his preference). In a fighter to fighter engagement, the K gun meant that to get out of any attack from and SE-5 you had to dive, unfortunately that meant that the SE-5 pilot still held the advantage of altitude. Against bombers the K gun meant that the fighter could attack in the bombers blind spot - astern and below.

WW II Fighters -
Hawker Hurricane - it did the job exactly when needed.

Spitfire - beautiful aircraft - except on take-off or landing, it transformerd through 24 different marks, more than doubling it's weight and enhanced performance, but still retained it's beauty - pilots loved it.

North-American P-51D Mustang - truly remarkable aircraft in terms of range and performance, British design, only came into it's own once powered with a Rolls-Royce Merlin engine.

Focke-Wulf-190 - best German fighter aircraft of WW II, performance was astounding.

De Haviland Mosquito - fighter, fighter-bomber, bomber and passenger aircraft. Carried the same bomb load (4000 lbs) as a B-17 Flying Fortress. Absolutely beautiful aircraft, again the pilots who flew them loved them. One of the "passenger" types (completely unarmed) flying the "ball-bearing" run from Sweden was recorded by German air-intercept radar doing 600 knots on the run back to the UK - did that by climbing to maximum altitude over neutral Sweden then diving for home - the Germans had nothing to catch it.

Post WW II

Hawker Hunter
McDonald-Douglas F-4 Phantom
Mig-29
F-14 Tomcat
F-16.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 May 03 - 12:11 AM

Yeah, it all started with Roland Garros, the French madman who decided to armour his propellor blades with deflectors and shoot down Germans. He did shoot down two or three, using his almost suicidal method, and the Germans took note. Within a very short time, Anthony Fokker designed the interruptor gear and the Fokker Eindekkers almost swept the skies clean with it! Blame Roland Garros, I say...he indirectly cost the Allies a great many aircraft with his crazy idea. :-)

The British responded with the DH-2, a pusher plane which didn't need an interruptor gear, since the prop was in the back. It was an odd looking plane, but did well...until the Albatros fighters appeared.

Leprechaun, now you are getting much closer to the truth... :-) Yes, my way of having a "good time" (as Bill Cosby used to say) was not dope, not booze, not cigarettes, not drag racing, and not even sex (curses! rejected again!) but going to the local hobby shop, buying another Airfix, Revell, or Monogram kit, removing the shrink wrap (a delicious moment), and building a historical airplane. I must've built a couple of hundred of 'em. It used to take me a couple of days when I was a kid...now it takes me a month, cos I'm such a perfectionist...and man, have those kits gotten GOOD in the past few decades! The best ones come from Japan, courtesy of Tamiya and Hasegawa, mainly, but there are some beauties coming from China now too.

Sheer joy!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: leprechaun
Date: 18 May 03 - 08:56 PM

I like the story of Mr. Fokker himself finding the solution to shooting through a moving propellor. He came up with the idea of an interrupter gear on the machine gun, such that the gun wouldn't fire when the blade was in the way. He drew on a childhood memory of throwing stones between the moving blades of a windmill.

What about those poor buggers who had to go up in the earlier models with metal deflectors bolted to the propellors, and then pound in when they shot the propellor off?

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,ozmacca
Date: 18 May 03 - 07:46 PM

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one with a liking for all those string and canvas flying machines. The really beautiful streamlined Albatross and the Walfisch, or the pug-ugly Camel. Mind, I've always been intrigued by the oddities... That dainty little French "Parasol" scout and the massive great bomber built by Sikorsky for the Imperial Russian Air Force and used on the Eastern Front early in WW1, or the armoured Junkers used for ground attack work in 1918.

Between wars, how about all those weird and wonderful experimental things like the tail-less flying wings like the Westland Ptereodactyl. Ugly as sin and the ancestor of the Stealth and B2. (for a real bit of deja-vu, have a look at some of the Horten flying wing jets late in WW2)

The Me163 and the "Volksjager" for all-out weirdness in WW2, but for "conventional" aircraft in WW2, I admire the Westland Whirlwind, a sleek, fast, hard-hitting twin engined single-seat fighter with the promise to be one of the best aircraft of the war if engine production priorities hadn't been changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Gareth
Date: 18 May 03 - 07:16 PM

At the risk of "thread drift" - never forget the "Stringbag" WW1 design in a WW2 enviroment. Click 'Ere

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Cluin
Date: 18 May 03 - 04:57 PM

Hey I love that song too. I still sing it often. You hear it once and you're hooked. I'd highly recommend picking up that Keelaghan CD it's on (Small Rebellions); the whole thing is killer.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: leprechaun
Date: 18 May 03 - 04:03 PM

OK, Now I've figured it out, how Little Hawk became a radical. Not pot smoking or drugs or skateboarding, but inhaling all that glue from putting World War I model airplanes together in the eighth grade! Truly a mind-opening experience!

Great thread, Little Hawk. It sure brings back some junior high memories for me. I can't even remember what happened to all the planes I put together, back before being a nerd was fashionable.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 03 - 01:28 PM

Neiuport 17, for its manueverablity;
The SE5A for its speed;
The S.P.A.D. XIII for its durability;
The Fokker Driedecker for its climbing ability;
The DeHaviland DH-2 for it's unusual bathtub apperearance;
The Fokker D-VII and the Sopwith Snipe for sheer performance.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 May 03 - 01:08 PM

It's a wonderful song lyric...I hope I get to hear the music now.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 May 03 - 12:41 PM

Cluin-

Thanks so much for posting "Princes of the Clouds." It really captures those bitter/sweet time of barnstorming in the 1920's.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: X
Date: 18 May 03 - 12:36 PM

You can find photos of Mikes T-6/AT-SNJ at www.barnstormers.com on page 21 & page 22.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: X
Date: 18 May 03 - 12:11 PM

Right now it's my mandolin players Navy AT-SNJ.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: DonMeixner
Date: 18 May 03 - 09:16 AM

The Curtis-JN III was the trainer of choice by the US Army and the Navy through out all of WWI and well after. They had gun mounts added and they trained with weapons on board. That the JN III (Jenny) didn't see combat in France doen't mean it wasn't used as a military air craft.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 May 03 - 07:53 AM

And some info posted previously on John G. Magee, the author of "High Flight" Click Here

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 18 May 03 - 06:19 AM

"High Flight"

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew -
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.

John Gillespie Magee, Jr.
 

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Fossil
Date: 18 May 03 - 04:13 AM

To start with - I too love old aeroplanes and in my youth, now alas a few years away and getting further away fast, I made many many models - my favourite WW1 plane being the SE5A. Also something of a favourite with the pilots, I believe, being fast, well armed and very tough by the standards of the day.

Now to diverge from the subject. If any of the contributors to this thread ever visit Brussels, don't miss the Air Museum at the Cinquantenaire Park - it is stuffed with interesting old craft, including a Fokker Triplane, Sopwith Camel, Halberstadt, etc.... and lots of more modern stuff, too (WWII and several postwar jets). And in the UK, don't miss the museum at Old Warden, particularly if there's a flying day.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 18 May 03 - 02:47 AM

Hawk, I know the Curtis Jenny wasn't a fighter plane, but she was still beautiful! I even got to see one in the air at an Antique Airplane fly-in in Oregon several years ago. The WWI planes were squirrelly as the dickens to fly and land, but fascinating nonetheless.

Nice sites, everyone.

Lin

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Cluin
Date: 18 May 03 - 12:05 AM

Time for another song in this thread. This one about the post-war use of some of these planes. From James Keelaghan's Small Rebellions CD:


Princes of the Clouds
Tony Kaduck 1989 SOCAN

I am a flyer, one of those wind-in-the-wires boys
At the country fairs, you may have heard my name
And I have flown where only wind and wild men go
In the skies of France, or west across the plains
When war was done, I couldn't go back to the farm
There were Curtis Fours and Avros for a song
It seemed like single and free was the only way to be
I bought a good old craft and I named her Southern Star

We drew crowds; they called us "Princes of the Clouds"
In the railway towns across the Great Divide
We'd come in low, then stage a dogfight for a show
Then take the brave ones up for fifty cents a ride
Just Bob and me; we didn't need no company
And those farm girls made us welcome when we came
It seemed like single and free was the only way to be
And we swore those glory days would never end

We had it planned; we were gonna fly the Rio Grande
When I met her at a show near Calgary
Becky Ann, she could have had her any man
But I bought a ring; she said she'd marry me
Bob went on; he headed south toward the sun
I couldn't look him in the eye when the time had come
He just said, "Single and free, man, it's the only way to be
Southern Star got parked behind the old man's barn

Six years ago, Bob was flying mail in Mexico
When his plane went down; the wreck was never found
The thirties came, we went two years without the rain
Now I've a factory job, and room and board in town
Becky knew that the glory days were through
I got a letter from New Orleans the other day
And she said, "Single and free is the only way to be
Now, Southern Star, take me back and let me dream
Oh, Southern Star, I got lost along the way

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 17 May 03 - 07:02 PM

Nice site, Matt R. Great thread. Keep 'em comin.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 03 - 06:43 PM

Yes, it was Snoopy who made the Sopwith Camel into a famous plane again in the 1960's. The Red Baron would certainly have been surprised had he known this would happen...

If the Germans had had such a dog flying for them, it would undoubtedly have been a dachshund named "Schnaps" or something like that, and you would have had a real dogfight! Dachshunds are tenacious little devils.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,permakid
Date: 17 May 03 - 06:08 PM

Here's mine!

And a little song to go with it ...

THE BEAGLE HAS LANDED
by Michele Eatough
to the tune of "Hope Aerie"

The night moon glows; up Snoopy goes.
Here stands a doghouse no more.
    The mighty plane of a flying ace,
    The Sopwith Camel, stands in its place
To fight in the first World war.

        For the beagle has landed
        To drink root beer again.
        Now he'll fly, his country to defend.

Engines churn while machine guns burn;
The enemy falls from the sky.
    Shot down, the mighty flying ace,
    But another plane comes to fill the place.
The Red Baron swears he'll die.

        For the beagle is branded.
        Red Baron plans to rend
        Snoopy's Sopwith Camel, end to end.

In pale moonlight, the two planes fight;
Soon both are riddled with holes.
    But the Baron hits some vital spot,
    And the Sopwith Camel, smoking and hot,
Falls to the Earth below.

        And the beagle crash-landed.
        Let the Baron beware when
        Snoopy climbs his doghouse once again.

        Prophets and prisms and planets in motion,
        Pebbles I gather in front of Truth's Ocean.
        Fluxions that help me in my measurings --
        These are a few of my favorite things.

**********************************************************************

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 03 - 04:33 PM

The Sopwith Triplane was very neat, yes. A good climber, that one, and very manueuverable.

Leprechaun, I tend to agree on the Von Richthofen thing...I also figure it was the ground fire that got him. Guynemer mostly flew the Nieuport, but I can't remember which plane he was flying at the time of his death. It may have been a Spad.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: RolyH
Date: 17 May 03 - 03:28 PM

I've always been a great fan of the Sopwith Triplane.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: leprechaun
Date: 17 May 03 - 02:42 PM

Since boyhood I have always liked the Fokker Triplane, but I have to agree with Little Hawk on the Albatross, even if just from an aesthetic point of view.

An interesting model, though not exactly a fighter plane, was the Dehavilland.

Wasn't it a Spad that Georges Guynemer disappeared in?

Thread creep - I tend to agree that it was probably an Australian ground gunner who brought down the Red Baron, though the Canadian pilot, Captain A. Roy Brown, got the credit for many years.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 03 - 11:53 AM

The Vulcan is a tremendously impressive-looking aircraft. It somehow gives the impression of an enormous animal, a mythical monster like the Roc. I don't generally like the post-WWII planes all that much, but the Vulcan is a standout among them.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 May 03 - 10:14 AM

Well Don, if you are allowing any era, I would go for the Vulcan Bomber. I couldn't believe its take of and the angle of ascent - it seemed to go upwards so steeply and slowly, I sort of half expected it to fall backwards down the line it was taking. And there was the noise - seemed like a case of sheer brute power. I've found a page with a section "Vulcan XH558, The Loved One by Michael Rondot" that expresses the feelings I had wacthing one of these at RAF Valley open day. Sorry the whole page here is so long.

Back to the topic of WW1, I'm afraid I don't know any of the planes.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: DonMeixner
Date: 17 May 03 - 09:51 AM

WWI

The Sopwith Pup, Eindecker III

Between the wars: The Old Reliable ( Curtis Jenny ), The Swallow.

WWII

Hawker Hurricaine

P-38, P-39, P-47

Martin Marauder, Aeronca Champ, Junkers 88

Lately: A-10 Warthog


Don

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 17 May 03 - 07:16 AM

Mo problem LH - sorry I was being more than a little stupid when I made my post.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: stevetheORC
Date: 17 May 03 - 06:16 AM

Tooooooooo many to realy choose from I use to love making them as a kid they seemed to have soul not like some of the later designes.
But lets say the Camel, albatros, pup, spad where proberly my favs. The paint work on some of them was fantastic.

De Orc

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Little Hawk
Date: 17 May 03 - 12:55 AM

Hey, well, this is great! Better response than I expected. I was away all day playing music, and went to the Corner Coffeehouse for the evening...just got back.

Lots of good nominations here. The Curtiss Nancy is the only one that's new to me...nice plane. The others are all old friends. I also really like the Nieuport, Matt...a very pretty little plane. The big bombers like the Gotha and the Handley Page were remarkable looking machines...huge things.

GUEST, Jon - Hey, I knew I'd hear from someone who would have a comment like yours (chuckle...). Yes, those planes were used to kill people. So were the galleons of England and Spain...and they were beautiful things. I like them too. I like Crazy Horse...he and the other Lakota warriors were very adept at killing people. I find the accounts of Caesar's campaigns in Gaul fascinating, not to mention the accounts of the Napoleonic wars, etc....which also involved killing a whole lot of people. I think it is partly because I know a great deal about war that I am so much against it. Can you relate to that? I hope so.

People, in their efforts to deal effectively with reality and each other have created many extraordinary things and have tested the limits of human courage, love, patriotism, self-sacrifice, mercy, accomodation, and mutual understanding. That it makes for fascinating history and great stories is undeniable. That it should serve to teach us to work for peace and not war is, to me, absolutely obvious.

Now back to those magnificent men in their wood and fabric planes...

And Gareth, thanks for the great link!

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 May 03 - 11:43 PM

LOL....As soon as I waw this thread, I knew it was you Hawk!!!

WWI is a really tough call. The airplane was still so much in it's infancy, barely at toddler status by the war's end. Plus you have to take the pilots into consideration. Although "Dicta Boelke" is still an adhered to philosophy today, it meant a lot more then. Planes like the Tripes were truly lacking in every crucial statistic but in the hands of Ricthofen of Werner Voss it was magnificent.

To pick one plane? Tough call.......All else being equal, the SPAD. But if I take the war as a whole and based on successes, I'd have to agree with Hawk on the Albatross series although the VA came along too late.

WWII has a lot more aircraft, but is a lot easier choice.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Gurney
Date: 16 May 03 - 10:49 PM

The Brisfit. But the French and Italian fighters were prettiest.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Rapparee
Date: 16 May 03 - 09:03 PM

The Spad. Then the Camel.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:59 PM

I think the POV is from a purely design and aerodynamically-related one.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:48 PM

Wasn't aware you liked war planes and things used to kill people LH?

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:33 PM

I've found this rather helpful:

http://www.theaerodrome.com/aircraft/nations.html

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Allan Dennehy
Date: 16 May 03 - 07:25 PM

Anybody know of a site with plenty of colour pictures?

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Matt_R
Date: 16 May 03 - 06:55 PM

I love the Nieuport 17 and the SPAD S.XIII.

Subject: RE: BS: Favourite World War 1 Fighter Plane
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 May 03 - 06:22 PM

My favorite book about all this is WARBIRDS: The Diary of the unkown Aviator. Go now to www.bookfinder.com and scarf up a used copy before someone beats you to it. The unknown aviator was a war buddy of Elliot White Springs, former CEO and owner of Spring Made Sheets, and Canadian ace Billy Bishop.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble