BS: Happy Birthday Jesus

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 26 Dec 01 - 07:06 PM

Jerry,

Excellent thought; I've just gone out & bought a whole PACK of ravenous canines; I should be able to get into that New Years' dress after all!

An African/Danish wedding sounds fascinating & fabulous; I think you're right about the Scandinavian culture being a bit difficult to break into. After 15 years of marriage I think I'm actually starting to "get it"; my husnand and I have running jokes about Lutherans & their general lack of rhythm---occasionally our church will throw in a hymn like "Go Tell It On the Mountain" or "Shall We Gather at the River", and we whisper: "ah, the Lutheran arrangement"!

My parents are a lapsed Church of England mother who attended Catholic school pre-Vatican II (lots of Latin; LOTS of guilt!!!), and a thoroughly lapsed 2nd generation eastern orthodox father whose most Greek characteristic is the unbelievably good recipes he learnt from his mother! Since my husband at least HAD a church tradition, that was the one we got married & baptised kids in. Overall, it's been nice, and the history is interesting (16th & 17th centuries being among my areas of study).

Oh, and there's that book that came out a few years back, "Lutheran Humour and Other Myths"!!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Dec 01 - 06:15 PM

Sorry, Desdemona... we didn't sing any Swedish songs.. My father's parents were Danish, but we didn't sing any Danish songs, either.

My Grandmother came over to this country from Denmark as a teenager to work as a housemaid for the Diamond family... those of the Diamond Match fortune. I wrote a song about my Grandparents with the line, "Grandma worked for Diamonds, she started at the top." My Grandpa was a tinsmith in Denmark and came over her as a young man. He met my Grandmother singing together in the church choir of a little Lutheran church in a Danish settlement in Wisconsin. I never heard either of them sing, though. My Father, for reasons he never explained, rejected everything about his Danish heritage, so what I know, I've learned from reading, and collecting Scandinavian music (very little of which is Danish.) My wife is African-American and we had an amazing ten days in Ghana last year. We had planned to go to Denmark this spring, but ended up buying a house, so we had to put it off.

I was the narator for a Santa Lucia festival at a Lutheran Church a few years ago... a beautiful story. I also was narator for a story about Tomtens (know what they are? If you do, you're the first person I've ever met who does.)

Thanks for dog tradition! Maybe if we gave the first bite of breakfast to our dogs every day we wouldn't have so much trouble getting into our jeans, as another thread mentioned..

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Dec 01 - 06:05 PM

Hi, Desdemona:

Nope, no Swedish songs. I would have liked it though, and have come to love Scandinavian music. My Grandmother came here as a teenager, from Denmark and worked on a level slightly above an indetured slave for the Diamond family... the ones of Diamond Match... wrote a song about my Grandparents with the line, "Grandma worked for diamonds, she started at the top." My Grandfather came over her from Denmark in his early twenties as a tinsmith. They met singing in the church choir in a little Danish Settlement in Wisconsin. For reasons never known to me, my Father strongly rejected anything Danish, so I might as well be sixth generation. What little I know, I've picked up myself. When my wife and I married, we had an African/Danish wedding. The African culture is much easier to learn about than the Danish. I know several people who were married in Denmark, and it sounds like they might as well have been married in Cleveland.
Good dog custom! I've been toying with the idea of writing a children's book from the perspective of a sheep dog who comes into the stable and devotes himself to watching over Jesus as he grows in to a young man. Inspired by a dear friend of mine who passed recently. A Border Collie named Blewyn.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 26 Dec 01 - 04:49 PM

Oh, those rams....!

I just heard of an interesting holiday tradition from Albania: on Christmas morning, the family dog (or other household pet) gets the first bite of breakfast, in honour of the animals who were in the stable. Nice, innit? Only it gives the dogs false expectations for December 26th!

BTW, Jerry, did you sing the Swedish drinking songs Christmas Eve? We did, although my American children give them a purely phonetic treatment; it's rather like the telephone game---by the time they get to our grandchildren, no Swede will have the faintest clue what they're singing about!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Celtic Soul
Date: 26 Dec 01 - 04:22 PM

Sometimes, you just have to let the words be what they are and appreciate them just as they are.

Thanks for reminding us that the word "Christmas" has "Christ" in it. :D

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 26 Dec 01 - 04:21 PM

You mean Shepherds only kept watch over their flocks at night during lambing season? Around here, in Connecticut, we kept a flock of sheep at the Museum where I worked, and even though it's a lot colder here in the winter than it was in Bethlehem we often had a lamb or two born during January or February. Depends on when the rams have their way, you know.

And if there were shepherds in the fields, where were the sheep dogs? Sheesh! they have oxen and donkeys, and doves and even little drummer boys, but no mention of sheep dogs. They were probably working and didn't have time to stop in at the manger.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 26 Dec 01 - 03:39 PM

Actually, the King James bible (ca 1611) is the "traditional" English version most of us think of, and while it is beautifully written, was done in a purposely "antique" style even then!

The events described in the scriptures would have been originally spoken in Aramaic [and I don't think "The Holly & the Ivy" would scan well in Aramaic, or even Greek or Latin, quite frankly! Now "Rudolph...", THAT would be a different story ;~)! ].

Jesus was borrn during lambing time, when "shepherds keep watch over their flocks by night", so it was certainly springtime. But those early Church fathers were nothing if not clever & cunning in adapting the new religious observances to old customs: people have always had some sort of mid-winter festival, so they just changed its name!

Pax, D.

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Amos
Date: 26 Dec 01 - 03:36 PM

I don't see a lot of power and majesty in the translations of his message, to be honest with you. It's a long and slippery slide from "The Kingdom is within you" and "Greater things than I do ye shall do..." to "If you say three Hail Marys I will decree you are forgiven for getting laid last Saturday." From the majesty of the individual soul reincarnate to the social control of guilt and scary icons of wrath and damnation. A long way down indeed.

Ah, well, no-one said bishops were infallible. Just Kings and Popes, right?

Sheeshe.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 26 Dec 01 - 03:31 PM

The way i see it when he was born and what the celebration was doen't negate the power and majesty of his message. Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Devilmaster
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 09:36 PM

Geez guys, can't we just blindly believe anymore?

Next you all tell me there isn't a Santa Claus.

Steve

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Irish sergeant
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 09:25 PM

Lovely sentiment. No argument. By the way the most current research indicates that given the astronomical event described in the Bible that Jesus was actually born in the spring. The church chose this day because it neatly turned the pagan festival of Saturnalia into a Christian religious holiday (History lesson for the day) The more important sentiment is why he came not when. Neil

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 02:50 PM

(New international version) Happy Christmas everybody!

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Devilmaster
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 02:15 PM

Way to go guys..... we've all done it.

We've ruined Christmas!

Steve

:)

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Amos
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 01:37 PM

Oi, vey!! Vot's der big deal??

A

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 01:07 PM

Only at Mudcat would a Christmas sentiment become a discussion of which version is more authentic! *G* Merry Christmas!

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Blackcatter
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 11:49 AM

GUEST,Bud,

What exactly do you consider to be a "traditional version"? Maybe the original Greek in which Luke probably wrote it? Or are you critcizing that John has a slightly different translation of the New Testament?

By the way John, it is actually Luke *2*,11-14 - not that big of a deal.

pax yall

Subject: RE: BS: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: GUEST,Bud
Date: 25 Dec 01 - 10:11 AM

Appreciate the sentiment, but it sounds much better in a traditional version.

Subject: Happy Birthday Jesus
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 24 Dec 01 - 11:06 PM

Today in the town of David a saviour has been born to you, he is Christ the Lord.You will find a baby wrapped in cloths an lying in a manger.Glory to God in the highest,and on earth peace to men whom his favour rests.
(Luke 1,11-14)