Tech: using tablet on stage

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 29 Nov 14 - 04:20 AM

I've had to go to church a handfull of times in the last 35 years - weddings, christenings, funerals...

..and every time when it comes to the communal singalongs we were provided with songbooks or printed crib sheets...

Soooo... if it's good enough for God, it oughta be good enough for the folk club fundamentalists...



..mind you though, back in infant & primary school morning assemblies
they might have forced us to lean and remember all the words...


Hmmmm... perhaps, those strict disciplinarian teachers from 50 years ago
are now the miserble old buggers clamouring to lay down the law in folk clubs...???

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 14 - 04:16 AM

Bugger, I'm still here 'midst the muck and bullets! 😃

Spot on Musket. That's what I guess I believe too. But who am I to condemn someone for doing what he enjoys, in a way that makes it possible for him to do it? Encouragement to drop the crutch, rather than condemnation for using it, might yield better results IMHO.

Hence my earlier comment, referred to in my post above, about people trying to force their own self-imposed rules on others.

And I agree, he's a truly nice guy - if only he could break the shackles he imposes on himself, who knows what level his performances might rise to?

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Musket
Date: 29 Nov 14 - 03:47 AM

Be fair, the boss is using a memory aid, like most people. The extension of the thread into this discussion refers to singing into a book, electronic aid, whatever, which rarely translates into projected entertainment. You, hopefully I and many of us can read, play AND think about the delivery. I reckon its that last bit that prevents would be decent players from progressing.

You and I hear a good friend of mine sing the same half dozen songs, every other week, eyes glued to the page. Has done for years and years and still sounds like someone playing publicly for the first time. He has to have his eyes glued to the page, including stopping to turn over. He enjoys playing but every bugger nips to the bar. If you removed his crutch, I guarantee he would improve immensley, which he would love dearly to do. He would be where he wants to be by now in the old style folk clubs.

I suppose its a bit like wearing headphones whilst listening to music and find yourself singing along. Ask anybody in the room, even if you happen to be Mario Lanza, whether your singing was nice to hear...

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 14 - 03:23 AM

And we're going round in circles, aren't we?

To sum up - no matter what we say here, those who like having their prompting-system in front of them will continue to do so, and those who don't will continue to eschew the use of tablets, loose-leaf binders, sheets of A4, backs of cigarette-packets, whatever.

On that note, I'm leaving this particular battlefield. 😃👍

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Nov 14 - 03:15 AM

Right, let's try the rope for size..... 😃😃

Two things.

Firstly:-

Bruce Springsteen.
He plays to 40,000 people at a time - more at one go than many of us play to in a lifetime.
His lyrics scroll up on a monitor in front of him, like the one PFR described up-thread.
I know - I've seen it.

Q: Does that mean The Boss doesn't prepare properly for his shows?
A: Judging by the quality of the music, the pinpoint timing, the interaction between Bruce, his audience and the band, and the incredible energy generated non-stop for over 3-hours by Bruce and his band, I'd say he's one of the best-prepared, best-rehearsed entertainers and musicians around.

Q: Do The Boss's audiences care that he can't remember every word of every line of every one of the 35-or-so songs in his 3-hour set?
A: Judging by their reaction to him, they don't give a damn, my dear.

If it's good enough for The Boss, it's good enough for me. Providing the performer is accustomed to working with a prompt-system, uses it only as an aide-memoire rather than reading the whole show, and is capable of referring to it, when needed, without detracting from his overall performance (can maintain contact with the audience, head up, eye-contact.....all the stuff we know about), it's a valid and perfectly acceptable tool. If it works for the performer, use it.

Secondly (and perhaps more importantly, IMHO):-

Refer to my post of 28 Nov 14. 06:35 AM

Usual disclaimers.....IMHO, IOSBTBDO etc.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 08:17 PM

Jack, do you have to be snarky?

I did not intend to answer the opening poster's question. The discussion has gone far beyond that now and raises the question of preparation for performing.

It looks like lots of people want to perform, but don't want to do the work necessary to prepare--such as learning the song before they sing it for an audience.

So now, of course, we fall back on the excuse that it's folk music, and that means a different (less rigorous) standard from singers.

I don't think Frank Proffitt used crib sheets. Or Leadbelly. Or Woody Guthrie. Or Margaret Barry....

Respect for the songs and respect for one's audiences demands sufficient preparation.

(Okay, here comes the lynch mob....)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 07:22 PM

ok.. whilst watching the BBC news reader with the rather full proportioned chest wearing a tight red dress..

..an idea occurred...

Alternative plan..

Discrete in ear wireless earphones, and an accomplice of stage reading you the lyrics through a radio transmitter...???

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 06:49 PM

I use crib sheets when I'm learning a song. But the only kind of "crib sheet" I use when singing for others is a set list of song titles taped to the side of my guitar. By the time I sing the songs before any kind of audience, I have them thoroughly memorize and don't need crib sheets.

That's a pretty poor excuse for not helping the OP with his question.

I would take a look at UX Write (doesn't work on my iPhone, unfortunately, it's can't go past iOS 6).

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 05:25 PM

I use crib sheets when I'm learning a song. But the only kind of "crib sheet" I use when singing for others is a set list of song titles taped to the side of my guitar. By the time I sing the songs before any kind of audience, I have them thoroughly memorize and don't need crib sheets.

It's not that difficult. Once committed to memory, I can turn my attention to the nuances of the song itself, without the distraction of three-ring binders, handsful of paper (not too convenient when accompanying oneself on the guitar), teleprompters, cue cards, or tablet computers.   

I'm essentially retired now, except for "hoots" (informal get-togethers and song fests with friends), but over about fifty years I did coffeehouses, concerts, television, folk festivals, benefits, a whole variety of musical events.

If I expect audiences to want to listen to me, I owe it to them to know the songs.

I don't do karaoke or similar stuff….

Don Firth

P. S. If anyone on this thread is interested, I can post some tips for memorizing songs and keeping them fresh.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 04:21 PM

{{Like}}

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 03:47 PM

I'm with you on this one Backwoodsman its attitudes like Oldnickilby's that helped to empty folk clubs years ago and why I do n't attend them anymore

or perhaps he's just trolling

Gerry

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: WindhoverWeaver
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 10:50 AM

I am, frankly, amazed that some people (like OldNicKilby) can claim that my enjoyment of someone doing a grand interpretation of a song but using a tablet is, somehow, invalid and should not be allowed!

I am, right now, at a weekend festival (Bedworth, UK), for which I paid about £50 for a whole weekend's entertainment. I expect there will be one or two performers using some sort of memory aide on the stages, and certainly quite a few in the singarounds. So what? Where else am I going to get such value for money?

If you want to see a "purist" artist, then be ready to pay three or four times as much for one evening's entertainment, and leave me and the hundreds of others here to enjoy ourselves as we see fit.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,Ian
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 09:20 AM

I'm of the opinion that if you can memorise a song and perform it without danger of forgetting the words then good on you, carry on! If you are in need of an aide memoire, and not to have one endangers your 'performance' (in singaround or concert), then why not use one?

I have just been watching a recently released DVD of a well known singer-songwriter performing in concert. He is over 79 years of age and writes rather lengthy and complex songs. I'm pretty sure he is using a stage prompt of some sort in order to ensure he has the words correct and his eyes are definitely not making contact with the audience when he is singing. They appear to be on this unobtrusive prompting device. I have no problem with this at all.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 06:35 AM

I would rather people stopped trying to force their self-imposed rules on other people.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: OldNicKilby
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 05:41 AM

DO NOT use a bloody tablet or any other crib. If you can't be bothered to learn the words then don't try to murder the song. I would rather the singer stumbled than sing to a tablet or ring binder.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: WindhoverWeaver
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 04:11 AM

Why is using a tablet any different from using, say, a guitar to help you perform a song? If someone got up to sing (from memory) with a guitar and didn't really know the chord patterns, stopped at several changes to position their fingers, and spent the whole time looking intently at the fretboard, that would be really awful (and I suspect most of us have sat through something like that more often than we would have liked!).

Same with a tablet: Used by people who do not understand the technology, have inappropriate software, and have not practised, it can be cringe-worthy. Used by someone who has put in the time to get to know the potential and uses, it can be almost invisible.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 04:06 AM

I completely agree, Allan.

Personally, I far prefer to perform without any kind of prompts, no matter whether at a singaround, or a 'proper' performance, I believe my ability to 'do' a song is enhanced without having the prompt-paraphernalia there, but I do have problems retaining some lyrics, so I resort to my iPad.

If I'm using it, I do exactly the same as if I was using paper prompts or working from memory - I know in advance before the evening begins what song(s) I intend to do, I put them in an Onsong Set-list, and they're cued-up ready to go. Whilst I'm playing and singing, I try to refer to the iPad as infrequently as possible, keep my head up, and make contact with the audience.

As I said elsewhere, I have my songs set up to fit one page, and in a legible (for me) font-size. A good pair of varifocals helps too! 😄

It's a tool and, like all tools, it works best in skilled hands and used properly. Just takes practice (and a little nous!

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 28 Nov 14 - 02:56 AM

Backwoodsman I think you hit the nail on the head. What is the issue with using a tablet, or bits of paper for that matter, if they are being used well? Unfortunately though they aren't always used well at our club on floor spots. You get the person who has the big 10 minute saga of scrolling through the thing to decide what he's going to play then the song is sung into the table itself rather than it just being a crutch to glance at in case of need. Then the person who stops half way through as it is scrolling too fast for him and he loses the place. We regularly have both types!

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 07:59 PM

The tablet might well also have a camera, so you can film disruptive yobs in the audience who talk through your act. If the audience knows this, you might get more quiet and attentiveness than the norm for the venue.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 07:40 PM

Mary, there's no 'stopping the song to scroll down' or 'squinting to read them' if you're using the software properly!

Virtually all of my songs fit on one page, and the few that don't are set up to scroll slowly automatically. Other people I know who use a tablet have a pedal which they touch with their foot to scroll/turn pages. The font-size can be set to suit whatever the user needs to be able to read it. I've never witnessed any tablet-user stop singing/playing to scroll, or squint at the screen, and I've seen plenty of tablet-users. On the other hand, I've often had to suffer people using binders flapping around with sheets of paper, dropping them on the floor, turning two pages at once and having to stop to turn back and find their place, etc. etc.

Used properly, a tablet is the least invasive form of prompt, IMHO.

And don't forget that many people have the dots on their tablets, as well as the lyrics they accompany.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 07:26 PM

.. if it's about maintaining eye contact with an audience..

... or at least appearing to be looking in their direction...

Anyone investigated the potential capabilities of Google Glass yet...???

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 07:19 PM

well i am an omniist and believe in absolutely every side of a situation. But I don't think a paying audience has the job. It is a market. They should be able to make informed decisions. You should have been told ahead of time what the rules were. The audience should be told if there is a job description that comes with paying $10 or $20. I personally don't mind words..I have to have them with me on papers that crummple and fall on the floor...but there is something about those tiny screens and people stopping the song to scroll down ...way way worse than paper. Just inform me of whatever the guidelines are and I will decide if it is worth my time and money. I won't go to an event dominated by the blue books for example. If I go somewhere, like a camp, where I know they will be, I have to know there are going to be alternate rooms etc. for the evening sessions..what happens during the day is OK with me whatever form it takes. It's not the technology that puts me off about tablets etc..I don't care if people use kareoke screens or drive in movie screens or teleprompters..it is the size of them and people squinting to read them and stopping and starting the song. Once a song starts I want it to keep going..even though I am very guilty myself.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 06:53 PM

I will repeat - what matters, is that the singer does what it takes to sing the song as best he can. The job of the audience is to listen, and to appreciate the performance and support the performer. It is not the duty of the audience to set artificial restrictions - if a singer feels he or she needs notes to sing his best, that's his business.

I'm a fairly good singer, and I've been singing all my life - mostly for kids and in church. I'm relatively new to this matter of folk singing, so I haven't had a lifetime to memorize a vast repertoire of songs. But there are a lot of songs I know quite well and can sing quite well - still, it helps to have notes at hand in case I need to glance at them.

I went to an invitation-only music weekend last spring, and it cost me $250. Only after I paid my money, was it made known to me that singers are expected to sing without notes or "cheat sheets." I muddled through and sang only songs I knew from memory, but I won't go back. The camp was dominated by three or four aggressive men who, admittedly, had phenomenal memories for lyrics. I ignored the invitation I received for the camp's fall gathering.

I felt excluded, that I had been judged "not good enough."

So, yeah, when snooty folkies insist that singers must sing without lyrics sheets, I think it's bigotry and it gets me angry. Because the use of a lyrics sheet isn't what matters - it's how the singer sings the song.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,Vrdpkr
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 04:58 PM

I'm lucky enough to do this for a living.
I have a Christmas show, a New Years show, an Easter show, St Pat's, kids programs, 20s and 30s swing for playing the wine tasting rooms, old time Cowboy songs and poetry, Halloween, material for Old Folks homes and school programs and more. There is some overlap, but these are very different situations calling for very different material.

Of course I rehearse everything I'm planning on doing for any given show, but it is hard to keep all of it word perfect in my head. Life is busy and sometimes I don't get all the rehearsal time I'd like. I used to haul around several binders, or rather, the binder I needed for any given show. Heavy, awkward, and my music stand would sag from the load. Now, it all fits on my iPad. Light, easy to use, and it works. If I get a request for something I had not planned on, if I have it, I can do it.
It took a while to get files transferred, and to learn to use it, but I absolutely recommend it.

625 songs and poems on an iPad organized by Onsong.

It's a magic world.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 02:08 PM

Folk snobbery medals in dropbox!! If I want lyrics with me on stage I shall have them. I don't own an ipad so it would be written or printed large on pieces of paper - the folk snobs know what they can do!

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 09:44 AM

Would an outline processor (or word processor in outline mode) help?

That way you could, for example, have your complete Child stored in it and just pop out the three ballads you were intending to do.

(I've no idea what outline processors there are on tablets - I've been using them off and on since Acta for the Mac in the mid-80s).

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Musket
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 09:26 AM

Good question Jim, but let me turn it round.

I will clap and feel empathy with a mate in a pub who hit a few bum notes, forgot his words or tried to over complicate with less than flattering results, but would complain like hell if I had paid £25 to watch Martin Carthy or Martin Simpson and they played similar.

On a much lower level, i.e. me, I will hear something at a singaround and say "You know, that song is similar in storyline and certain phrases to one from the other end of the country. Let's see if I remember it." Whereas if I am at a concert doing my set, I have practiced over the years, got the songs just where I want them and the "spontaneous chat" between songs is sometimes word perfect to twenty years ago.

Like I said, group sharing of songs versus entertaining. The main thing they have in common is, to be fair to your view, that even in group thera.. er singing, the rest of us should expect you have either practiced it so playing at your level or are at a level you can pull it off and not waste three minutes of the lives of others.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 09:16 AM

Again typical Mudcat, respond to a post as if it said something totally different. Singarounds and staged performances are simply different formats with different criteria for their success.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 08:13 AM

"somebody will always try and turn a discussion about staged performances into one about singarounds."
Is there a difference - do audiences at singarounds somehow deserve less of an effort?
jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 07:51 AM

"This thread has the words "on stage" in the title. it therefore isn't an excuse for another thread concerning mumbling into a book at a sing around? "

Come on, this is Mudcat, somebody will always try and turn a discussion about staged performances into one about singarounds.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 06:21 AM

Slight thread creep but I remember a school production of "Journey's End" where we were all woefully under-rehearsed. The lines were pasted at strategic points on the flats of the "dugout" and if anyone "dried" the sound operator turned up the shell and gunfire effects disc (a 78 in those days!)while we walked over to the appropriate piece of scenery to check the words!

RtS

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Musket
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 05:34 AM

Public speaking is good comparison. I never work from a script when giving lectures or addressing a conference etc, as, just like everyone else, I don't write as I speak. I am like many people in that I may never look at my notes but if they weren't there, I'd probably do a Miliband. Notes are bullet points of what I need to get across. Bad enough that students don't see my bit as a core subject and conferences, I am usually the warm up for those they have really come to hear and challenge.

Same with the piece of paper stuck to my guitar. It may have the first line of verses, or a few words I tend to get wrong, but rarely the whole song.

But..

Yes, I have been known to use lyrics, even my iPad before now, in a sing around. Not easy as for other reasons, I have problems sitting and playing, I tend to stand.

I think we are somehow confusing singing with performing. As a listener at a concert, you have expectations of the performer, including body language, ease of delivery and a good performer makes you feel they are addressing you, not a crib sheet. When I was in rock bands, yeah, the running order, keys, which effects pedal etc may have been taped to the floor or on my foldback speaker.

This thread has the words "on stage" in the title. it therefore isn't an excuse for another thread concerning mumbling into a book at a sing around?

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 14 - 03:53 AM

"I have to have notes when I give a speech, "
There is a big difference between speaking from notes and reading the entire text of the speech.

Public speaking courses teach you not to have the entire text in front of you as you end up looking at the text rather than the audience.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 10:19 PM

ps.. a little application of basic DIY skills,
and it should not be too difficult to cobble together a similar 'word memory box' on the cheap.....

hmmm.. a tablet with an HDMI output, a long HDMI cable, and a flat screen monior hidden inside a guitar case..

.. and an offstage accomplice scrolling the words on the tablet for maybe a few free pints..

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 10:10 PM

pssst... don't tell the folk club fundamentalists...

http://www.musicradar.com/news/tech/stageprompter-display-lyrics-chords-and-scores-553470/


"Stageprompter: display lyrics, chords and scores..

.. Many top artists employ PCs, autocue software and off stage operators pressing the down arrow key.
Strategically hidden flat screens supply the words, chords, and even music score.
It's time the rest of us throw away the paper and bad memory's and move up a gear.

The Times Online featured an article, naming many top artists that used some form of complex autocue system.
This practice has remained largely hidden for many years, but who can blame them.
Now a simple solution for all has been found...

... Staffords on Stage, a Cambridge based technology company has come up with the answer.
The Stageprompter, a computer-less solution that features a 22" colour screen, hidden in a floor wedge monitor.
Your lyrics, chords, music score, or anything you want, are saved as images on a memory stick
and displayed on the screen.
Using a foot switch, you move through your prompts at your own pace.
Complete with its own optional flight case, it is designed to handle the rigour of gigging,
roadies and touring transport."

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 09:29 PM

I have to have notes when I give a speech, or else I fall apart. Most of the time, I leave the notes on the podium and step closer to my audience - but I have to have those notes nearby for security. Admit it - performing before an audience is stressful, and it sometimes helps to have crutches.

When we sing songs, we should indeed know them thoroughly - but it is often helpful to have notes to fall back on when memory fails us. It's really awkward when a singer forgets a verse and starts over from the beginning....again, and again, and again.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: MickyMan
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 09:06 PM

Last week my music major college boy son was having serious problems in his opera workshop class. The music was very complex and he had lots of trouble emoting his character while he sang ...... until he realized that when the opera was staged his character would be sitting and reading a magazine all through the song. A few well placed notes and the director was singing his praises! He ended up hardly even looking at them, but it gave him the confidence he needed to add more to the performance.
It wasn't a tablet, but it served the same purpose! LOL!

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 08:30 PM

Thanks for the tips re transferring files and folders to iPad: obviously don't use iCloud and Dropbox enough!

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 07:14 PM

For me the problem is use of words with little preparation beforehand.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 05:44 PM

Thanks Joe, that's a sensible viewpoint.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 05:17 PM

Backwoodsman, I'm with you. When I first saw the thread title, I wondered how long it would take for some folk purist to step up and assert that songs must be memorized. It came on the third message.

The alternative, I guess, is for us to satisfy the purists and sing the same ten songs all our lives.

I think rather than having to follow a bunch of rules, the best thing to do is to do the best you can to present a song to the people hearing it. I notice that Lomax and Sharp and others collected songs from people who were not always the best singers, and who did not always remember lyrics perfectly. But these singers sang the songs the best they could - and carried on the tradition so we have it now.

O you mighty purists, don't condemn other singers for what you see as their shortcomings - listen to them, even if they aren't as good as you think you are.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 04:12 PM

"The dominance of sing around has been good for enthusiastic people who have little natural talent but has been a disaster for those who may have improved immensely under a more professional atmosphere."

Spot on, Musket!

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: IamNoMan
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 04:06 PM

"I'm with Windhover Weaver on this one, I've never had a problem with anyone using any form of aide memoire as long as it does not detract from the performance."

The sad thing is it does detract from a performance. As a performer you want the audience to pay attention to you. Sure everybody crashes and burns from time to time; but that too is something a performer needs to learn to deal with. As an audience member I get distracted and sometimes annoyed when my focus shifts to a music stand and associated paraphernalia.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 03:37 PM

Aaaahh-yup!

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Musket
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 03:35 PM

Cards on table.

Back when no bugger I ever saw used a folder to sing from, back when they were Folk clubs in the real sense, most of us had crib sheets stuck onto guitars anyway..

I had been playing years in folk clubs before I saw someone singing from a piece of paper in a folder. Saw many grab a look first but many folk clubs were stage settings then, so nowhere to put a folder anyway.

I agree with the guest who berates the idea of singing "cold" rather than attempting to get to know a song, sniff its bum etc. Good singers can't do that so why others think they can is beyond me. Remember, nobody in a sing around is annoyed if you can't sing very well or struggle with instruments, your enthusiasm is what counts. But expecting people to sit enthralled whilst you plainly have no idea of what you are singing or have never addressed it?

Here's a fairly contentious thought. The dominance of sing around has been good for enthusiastic people who have little natural talent but has been a disaster for those who may have improved immensely under a more professional atmosphere. Let's face it, we all wouldn't mind getting it right more?

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 02:50 PM

ha ha i have a piano on my blackberry tablet and think i can get an accordian as well..soon i will have an orchestra...

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: WindhoverWeaver
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 11:52 AM

Punkfolkrocker: One great advantage of an app like Songbook (over both paper and PDF readers) is that they can re-size the text on the fly without any need to scroll right-left (impossible if you are playing too). I use a 10" tablet (rather than a 7") I got cheap second-hand and find I can set it to be seen clearly by my old eyes in any setting.

As for iPads being superior, I see no advantage if you are using a tablet just as a song storage/display device. Since I don't do anything with interfaced instruments, I would just be paying extra for useless (to me) extras.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 11:06 AM

"Dislike it intensely". Mmmmmm........

A bad choice of words there, I'll rephrase it - "I'm saddened when it's perfectly clear that people have made no attempt.......etc.".

But I believe that anyone who performs should be free to do it in whatever way they feel most comfortable. The most 'disrespectful' thing that can happen to any song is that it not be sung at all.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 10:56 AM

I try to learn my songs, but I do have a problem retaining those which I don't sing very often, so I take my iPad to singarounds etc., but try to use it as little as possible.

If I'm 'appearing', either solo or with the band, I have the iPad mounted on my mic stand and use it for my set lists (far better than writing on the back of one's hand, or trying to read a scrap of paper on the floor!). The beauty is that Onsong displays the lyrics to each song in the set-list, in the correct order, so if I 'dry' (and it happens more and more frequently as my 67 year-old brain farts more and more readily) I have a lifeline.

I have no problems with an aide-memoire being used by anyone - far preferable to squirming with embarrassment at a singer's discomfiture during that seemingly-interminable period when he or she is frantically trying to remember the forgotten lyrics, often in vain! But I dislike it intensely when people have clearly made absolutely no attempt to memorise any of their material, and read every line of every song, head down, eyes glued to their loose-leaf binder, and making no attempt to make even the briefest of eye contact with their audience.

Subject: RE: Tech: using tablet on stage
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 14 - 10:56 AM

Performing from a score is a specific skill, if you have acquired it then it doesn't detract from your performance. The problem is the people who:
1. Use the score as an alternative to practice
2. Perform to their notebook rather than to the audience.
Both faults which I haven't seen at classical music concerts but have at folk clubs.