BS: Original intent of healing circle

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 12:56 AM

Richard, I think that you have missed the point completely. There are more than one issue involved here but assuming that we accept the non mucisal contend and that whover is the person in need, we come back to the idea of the healing circle.

This was fine by me and did read them. The problems occured when people started to say how they did things and how the person is healed...

As a result, as a Christain, I am then put in the position of at least appearing to believe and agree with those methods and may also at a minimum, be seen to be joining in with the practices that not only I disagree with but are in total opposition to my faith.

If that side of things had been left alone, and people were simply asked to send good wishes and do whatever they believed was right without inflicting their beliefs on others, half the controversy regarding the healing circle would not have existed.

Your last sentence is indicicate of what was starting to happen within those threads and why some objections were raised.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: RichM
Date: 10 Jan 00 - 12:33 AM

What if...the original message in this thread had been written in the form of a song? Would anyone then have said: "no, it's inappropriate to sing about healing circles? " . I think not...let's all apply some of that same acceptance to this wonderful form of written communication. The internet is a wonderful thing...but it requires that we all know when and where to pick our battles. Better to ignore a thread than to attempt to change a person's basic beliefs.

Richard McCarthy

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 05:31 PM

Jon,

Unfortunatly, you aren't mistaken...

But in the interest of peace and mutual understanding, I won't bother to explain - I'll keep it to myself

Clare

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: flattop
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 04:17 PM

I was a tad cynical about the healing powers of Mudcat until I read Lloyd61's e-mail - remembering a hymn that he hadn't in 50 years. Surely this is proof of a healed memory, a first thread miracle. Throw away your sheet music and praise the Lord!

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 02:04 PM

Beautifully edited Frankie, and you are welcome. "In art, and in the higher ranges of science, there is a feeling of harmony which underlies all endeavour. There is no true greatness in art or science without that sense of harmony" Einstein. Nice to see a ceasefire amongst our correspondants. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Frankie
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:45 AM

I just love a friendly picking session.

"...rhythm and harmony find their way into the secret places of the soul, bearing grace in their movements and making the soul graceful..." Plato (shamelessly edited)

Thanks for "frozen music", Dave.

Frankie

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:10 AM

Well spoken, Kendall. But on the other hand, one can pick one's friends and one can pick one's nose, BUT....one should NEVER pick a friends nose!

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: kendall
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 09:01 AM

The man that hath no music in him, and is not moved by sweet concord of sound, is fit for strategms and spoils. The motions of his spirit are as dull as Arebus. Let no such man be trusted. I may have mis quoted Shakespere..if I did, someone will tell me. You know what they say, a friend is someone who will tell you that you have broccoli in your teeth. As good friend will pick it out for you.

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Jan 00 - 12:00 AM

Clare s, I appreciate your calling a ceasefire but you saying "Unfortunately, I am amused when the banji banjo banjer man falls for the bait every time..." does appear to imply that you get some form of pleasure out of baiting or winding people up. I trust that you can confirm that I am mistaken in my interpretation of your words.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:57 PM

Well said Dave

Unfortunately, I am amused when the banji banjo banjer man falls for the bait every time...

I will stop now, so long as he or his friend don't become nasty again.

Ceacefire declared

Clare

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:49 PM

Music produces a kind of pleasure which human nature cannot do without. Confucious

Without music, life would be a mistake. I only believe in a God that knew how to dance. Nietzsche

I have found among my papers a sheet.. in which I call architecture frozen music. Goethe

Life is like a shipwreck but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats. Voltaire

PAX people, peace please, there are no OMG's here just passionate people talking to each other. Show some charity for each others opinions; and let us have and end to to arguing. Peace, good digestion and pleasure depends upon it for this weekend. Get back to some music. Yours, Aye. Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:26 PM

A healing thread for me - lovely as it sounds, I think a healing circle for me and banjer's relationship may be more in order...

I get the impression that he doesn't like me :-(

He really should lighten up and get a better sense of humour - too serious...

Love you banji banjo man Clare

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:07 PM

Clare, would you like us to hold a healing circle for you? I think that could be arranged.

BB

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 08:02 PM

Yes Clare, you too can be awarded the OMG award. You realize of course that makes you as much a Miserable Git as we are. In fact yours can have oak leaf clusters or whatever them things are! Enjoy!

BTW Phoaks, that one post about the skin so soft was meant to go into the chigger thread. How it wound up here I have NO idea!

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 07:50 PM

Well, here I are, the absurd, dim, American, miserable git, and damn proud of it....Clare, in spite of your obnoxious and rude behavior, I still welcome you to the Mudcat, the community of which I am very proud to be a part, my house and the house of all that participate here. There are those that will think me strange for this response, but a community is made up of many different personalities. Some are very lovable, some less likeable. But it takes all kinds to give us a sense of balance. Lord, if we all believed the same thing there would be no need for discussions or debates. What a dull place this world of ours would be. What part of the world do you call home?

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 06:08 PM

Sooooooooooo, Clare, where ya from?? We 'mercans aren't always able to tell here in cyberspace. I've followed this fascinating thread in silence but I must say, I'm holding all of you in the Light, until you Lighten Up- there's been a lot of gentle jabs that seem to cut right to the quick and I order you all to hold hands and sing "It's a small world after all" and call me in the morning.
Allison-with-2-ls-who-is-NOT-dim-and-NOT-a-miserable-git NOI BG LOL ESQ

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: wildlone
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 06:02 PM

clare s,we get this all the time,the one thing that holds us together is our love of music. I think you have pretty much covered what I like in music Apart from most Fellside recordings,Maddy Prior,Sheb Woolley well loads.
dave of Dorset

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:26 PM

A fairly oblique query...

If it was intended to stop my making 'difficult' comments then it will only serve temporarily. But as you ask:

Nic Jones, Kate Rusby, Pete Morton, Pretty much everything past and present by the Waterson : Carthy clan, oh yes and the Beatles

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Peter T.
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:18 PM

What kind of music do you like, Clare?
yours, Peter T. (A Canadian)

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:13 PM

clare, LOL.

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:10 PM

Please don't take the about literally

I pray for an appreciation of irony...

Clare

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:08 PM

given the above,

sorry to anyone i upset by saying what i thought

sorry if i was personally offensive by what i thought

sorry that as americans you can't understand me

sorry that americans are (with numerous exeptions) very dim

Clare

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: wildlone
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 05:02 PM

The Prophet Mohammid PBUH once said that a pagan who lived a good life and was caring of his fellows was a better man than a Muslim who lived a bad one.
FOR AS LONG AS PEOPLE DISCOVERED IT RELIGION HAS DIVIDED PEOPLES, IT IS NO MATTER WHO YOU WORSHIP BUT HOW YOU WORSHIP. IF IT IS DONE IN LOVE, WITHOUT HURT TO YOUR FELLOW BEINGS,CAN IT BE SO BAD.
The key word is Toleration.

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:55 PM

can i have an OMG too please, or is it limited to certain mudcat contributors?

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:45 PM

Banjer, no gain withouth pain, I guess. Thanks for bestowing upon me the O.M.G. (Order of the Miserable Git). I will wear the sash proudly over my Oshkosh overhauls and under my Land's End field coat.

--seed(O.M.G.)

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: clare s
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:30 PM

Being as several of the above messages include views as to what 'Clare' might have meant, I guess I should respond.

Whilst I stand by my view that you are unlikely to improve any medical condition merely through your thoughts or prayers, you are of course free to believe so. Indeed you may help people feel better along the way.

Before I leave this, I'd just ask: what if you forget or are unable to perform your daily / weekly healing prayer / ritual? Does the paient stop recovering?

Banjer, my apologies if I offended you. But if as you say, you consider Mudcat to be your community, well I think you best get used to being offended. Sorry to offend you again, but you do come across as being a bit of a 'stick in the mud' OK I'm new here, but mudcat isn't your house.

Peace and love to all,

Clare

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 04:08 AM

Skin-so-Soft has been used as a very effective insect repellent for as long as I can remember. Of course from what I remember quite a few of those Avon products could repel more than bugs!! Like the time my little brother went out one of his first dates. I think he used a whole bottle of that Wild Country....couldn't get near him for a week!

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 03:56 AM

Thank ya Mr. Seed for your kind words...Of course you realize that speaking out in support of us miserable gits makes you one too! At least an honorary one, and it would be MY GREAT honor to bestow the title upon you:

Kneel BSeed
The Seed kneels and gets tapped rather hard on the head with the business end of a banjo, causing him to collapse to the floor
I dub thee 'Miserable Git' Rise now and 'GIT' on with your music. Ahem, I said 'Rise now and......'
Would somebody please help this dazed miserable git offa my floor?

Kristi, a lot of those good tunes you speak of ARE emotional support! Nice thoughts!

"Will the circle be unbroken
by and by Lord, by and by-e,
There's a happy home awaitin'
At the Mudcat for you and me."

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 02:01 AM

Wolfgang: These were her words in her first post. While she did not use the word "stupid," she certainly expressed the thought "stupid." So you don't have to scroll back to read them, here is her message:

If you really think that your 'thoughts' can heal you are sadly wrong. No decently conducted experiment has shown any difference over a control group.

Of course, you are entitled to your beliefs however absurd, but please go somewhere else and leave us folkies to discuss music.

If "absurd" doesn't mean "stupid" in that context, I sure as hell don't know what it does mean.

However, I had completely forgiven her that earlier transgression, until she called Banjer a miserable git (the fact that he IS a miserable git is beside the point--he's OUR miserable git). "I don't care if he is a hound/They can't go kickin' my dog around..."

Now Banjer has forgiven, so I can, too. Come out, Clare, and join the community. And Gargoyle, if you'd stop reading the threads you hate, you'd have more time to post to music threads to keep them from dropping off the bottom of the thread list...

--seed

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Kristi H
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 01:29 AM

You never know when you may need some healing yourselves. Life has a habit of coming up and kicking you directly in the butt. When it does, people like us will not only support you emotionally, we'll make sure you hear some good tunes along the way. K

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: _gargoyle
Date: 08 Jan 00 - 12:09 AM

Ah don't know, what ya knaw

But...Glad ya been heeled.

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: bbc
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 10:15 PM

I second Banjer. People, you have said it all, more than once. Please let it go or some of us are not going to want to be here anymore.

bbc

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:57 PM

I don't know a hell of a lot. I don't even know what a miserable git is...Like an old timer I knew was fond of saying...."I don't understand everything I know"

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 07:47 PM

Takes one to know one Spaw!!!!!

(IT'S A JOKE, PHOAKS!!!)

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 07:37 PM

Yeah, but what do you know you miserable git!?!?!?!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 07:24 PM

Well, this "miserable git" thinks we ought all put it behind us, let bygones be bygones and get on with what WE think is right. If anyone asks for a little moral support or requests a prayer or two, they've got it! None of us thinks that this could ever replace professional care but it does fill a void that even professional medical care can't provide for....AND...it doesn't cost anything. All of us have at some time in our lives received an uplift from someone, a kind word or deed that helped us along life's way. Let's keep the tradition rolling, lets pass it on so that perhaps some day when WE again need it, it will be there.

Wolfgang, your statement in your post, "Banjer, when Clare was writing this you hadn't posted yet in this thread", I don't understand. I do believe that the moral support given by fellow Mudcatters in time of need is good. Whether I had posted or not, that is still my belief and Clare did make a blanket statement that all who thought this were absurd! Also she is saying that any who take part in this should go elsewhere. That is not right!

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 04:18 PM

Dear Peter and Spaw,

I was listening to the cut from Musicman's "Farewell" CD on Mudcat Radio when I read your postings. Please know that your words, coupled with that music, helped to "heal" the wounds I've felt over these past few days.

Through the release of tears and sadness, I find a deep gratitude in my heart for such as you and the others who so willingly and lovingly share themselves, their music, and their words with whomever wants to cick on and read.

DavetheAM: Thank you. My sisters and my mom used to sing me to sleep with that song and I have loved it always.

I'd also like to say what Peter, Spaw and Áine said, goes for me, too.

katlaughing

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: MMario
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 03:53 PM

*urk* damn, I wish, I wish, owGAWD I WISH!, you don't know HOW much I wish I wasn't one of those people who visualize as they read.

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Áine
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 03:24 PM

Dear Spaw,

You mean you didn't realize that 'I've got your whole world here in my hands'? (insert rude, stubborn, evil snicker here)

Luv ya, Áine

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 03:14 PM

My darlin' Aine.....So what kind of support can you give to my sagging, tortoise ass?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Áine
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 03:00 PM

Dear Dave,

Thank you so much for reminding of 'All Through The Night.' My sweet mother, God rest her, used to sing that to me when I was small. I had forgotten most of the words and I can't thank you enough for reminding me of them. Now I can sing this wonderful song to my children.

And as far as the Healing Circle messages are concerned, I guess I'm one of the 'rude, stubborn (folks) with evil intentions,' because if I want to ask my friends here on the 'Cat for their prayers and support, I darn well will.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 02:38 PM

Give it up Peter........Ain't nobody gonna' change nobody and more's the pity. I had a reply to this thread, rehashing my earlier post and yours, but I wanted to wait until I saw Banj's reaction to "miserable git."

Actually Banj and Peter are kind, considerate and humane, human beings. Neither would intentionally step on another person's religious toes. Banj, Peter, Kat, Rick, Mick, Leej, Jeri, Seed, Art, Sandy, Allen, Alan, alison, bbc, Duane, and about a hundred or more others did in fact sweat bullets for me back in May. Perhaps one of the best things they provided was support to Karen and a way for her to focus on something other than her disbelief over what was happening to me. She had threads readily available to her that she read every day. She's a lab tech and knew the medical situation, but her need at that time was spiritual. For that support alone, I will always be in their debt.

We are all far more aware of the "religious" issues at this point. Jon my friend, I DO understand. The "Healing Circle" was to me more of a prefix to allow people to know the content of the thread. I state once again, as Peter has......I will continue to post as I see fit to send best wishes or support to anyone here. I'll also say Happy Birthday, Congratulations or whatever if I'm so inclined. YOU may choose to do so too or choose not to post to such threads. Your choice. Privacy can always be requested and indeed such is the case with one of our number at this time. The argument about too much BS is simply that...BS. Max's new search engine makes the forum completely accessible whether you wish to look up Cletus or CarrickFergus, Amazing Grace or POSSUMS!!! Or maybe you want to read the posting of that miserable git, Banj.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 02:35 PM

Anyone remember hearing or singing this song as a child or parent? Did it help? I rocked a lonely child to sleep in a hospital one night to this song. (not my own child) his crying was keeping other kids awake, including my own. The poor bloody nurses where so busy, no-one had time for him. My daughter let me go and entertain him for a bit (next room) Why do we sing such drivel when the nurse could have drugged him to sleep? Did it help or heal anyone? what did it cost me? what did I gain? (other than the profuse thanks of five nurses and one doctor and four other parents, and a free coffee) By the way, I cannot sing it anymore; but perhaps someone else might need it one day. Isn't that why it was written? Maybe music/singing is like a healing circle, worthless. But it didn't seem to bother the nurses or the doctor; and it worked for the kid, that night at least. Yours, Aye. Dave

ALL THROUGH THE NIGHT (2)

Sleep, my babe, no ill betide thee, All through the night. Guardian Angels (MUDCATTERS) watch beside thee All through the night. O+er thy cradle stars are beaming, Silver bright the moon is gleaming; Thou shalt tread the land of dreaming. All through the night.

While the earth in calm reposes, All through the night. Thou shalt sleep as sleep the roses, All through the night. Hushed from sorrow and repining, Rest until the sun is shining, In my loving arms reclining, All through the night.

@Welsh @lullaby filename[ THRUNIT2 Tune file : THRUNITE

CLICK TO PLAY S Apr98

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Peter T.
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 01:49 PM

Well, I guess I am going to have to come clean, and reveal myself to be a rude, stubborn bastard with evil intentions.
If someone asks for my prayers here or good wishes, and I am concerned, and I want to know how they are doing, I will respond here and ask here. We are a community, and keeping tabs on our various great news and bad news, and wishing people well and so on is part of it. People's threads here are part of the threads of people's lives. I want them here. I will do what I can to keep all the richness of people's lives unfolding right here. It is fun, educational, ennobling, humbling and deeply musicial. I want babies born right here in Mudcatland, the mother typing on her laptop as she goes (just to take her mind off her pain, of course!). I want people so happy about someone being cured or relieved of pain that they spontaneously contribute ballads of joy and choke up all the Internet service providers in the 10 directions.
I have not heard the slightest counter-argument that has any weight so far, just carping. Until someone can give me some intelligent reason why they are offended by people, here, at this place, giving virtual aid to others, I will go on supporting this evil vicious work. If people were posting threads labelled : THE HATING CIRCLE, I would be somewhat concerned, but that is personal taste. I am intransigent about responding here to impassioned requests for the miserable little good we can do for people in trouble, by wishing them well and praying for them. If someone wants to start a healing circle for me or for Hilary Clinton right here, I am for it -- I need it, she really needs it. If there is anyone here who doesn't feel they need to be prayed for spontaneously any time, in bus shelters, on the Internet, in Toys-R-US, by anyone who feels the urge, please let me know, so I can pray for you. And this is from a serious sceptic about the efficacy of healing lights or prayer!! But what possible harm can it cause???? And to have someone you have never met concerned enough about you to pray for you, or place you in a healing circle of light whatever the hell that is!! Is that not an incredible privilege in a world of people who don't give a shit about whether you live or die? Sorry, I just can't help it, I have struggled with it in my heart of hearts for about a micro nanosecond, and there it is. I am just a stubborn, evil bastard. I guess you will have to pray for me to see the light. Oh, rats, not supposed to do that here!!! PHOOOOOEY.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 12:38 PM

Actually Claire, Banjar's a pretty darn good natured Mudcatter, and I think it takes a lot to get him riled up. In future you might preface things with "in my humble opinion", or "no offence intended", or as my daddy used to say "don't talk politics or religion". 'Course here on the Cat, we talk about both..but perhaps a lighter approach might get a more sympathetic response. Welcome anyway. We forgive quickly.

Rick

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: jeffp
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 10:03 AM

It's taken me a while to get involved in this thread, but I want to say that I have benefited from the Healing Circle as both a participant and a recipient. I have no scientific basis for belief in any healing power to be gained from groups like this, but faith does not depend on scientific proof. If something is proven, it is no longer a matter of faith, but fact. And just because something is not proven, that does not necessarily mean that it does not exist.

That being said, I do appreciate the privacy concerns that have been expressed here and I am interested in working with whatever sort of solution the people here can come up with. I am confident that some sort of structure will evolve that will be workable and will not be "in the face" of those who prefer not to be confronted with it.

And please, let's all remember that our goal is to help each other.

jeffp

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Wolfgang
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:43 AM

'I still don't take kindly to being told that my beliefs, which obviously don't match anothers', are ABSURD'. Banjer, when Clare was writing this you hadn't posted yet in this thread.
'Telling everyone that they were stupid'. BSeed, reread, Clare hasn't.
Thank you, Clare, for your thoughts.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: llama
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 08:40 AM

The power of healing is mystical and real. I find it when I play my fiddle...that's not a hard stretch is it?

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Banjer
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 05:22 AM

"Lighten up Banj!"???? Clare comes into what many of us consider our cyber-community, tells us what we believe in is ABSURD and when I take a stand has the unmitigated gall to compare me to a 'miserable git.' Not in my house, my dear!! If anyone cares to take time to trace back my postings one would see I am usually on the side of merriment and fun. I love a good joke, don't mind some of the bad ones, and will use puns wherever they present themselves...BUT, coming into MY house and telling ME how stupid my beliefs are will raise my hackles.
In spite of her obvious lack of consideration for the thoughts of others I still welcome Clare to this little community, but rest assured I WILL NOT change my thoughts based on her attacks and will certainly not "go somewhere else and leave us folkies to discuss music," as suggested in her opening salvo.

Subject: RE: BS: Original intent of healing circle
From: Mary G
Date: 07 Jan 00 - 02:25 AM

well if we are voting I think it is a great idea and it is certainly no problem to skip over posts you are not interested in...and there is a great connection between music and healing...and there has been some research (I can't say offhand how scientifically sound it is..) about how prayers for people, even people who didn't know they were being prayed for, hence no placebo effect, had some benefit...I say go for it..

mg