Types of folk music you like or dislike

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 06:14 PM

Okay, Colin, I'll have a go.
The early collectors went round recording what they decided to call folk songs, those songs that had been passed down in oral tradition, some dating back to the 16th century right through to the early 19th century. Most were printed on broadsides and had a certain style, narrative, simple structure, simple tunes, few characters, often lots of dialogue, and other characteristics, covered certain subjects. To emulate this in your own song writing would then be 'in the traditional style'. This is very loosely defined by the way.

Some writers write about heritage subjects, some about topical events, some use traditional structures and tunes.

Hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Elmore
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 05:32 PM

Types? Types? There's only folk music and non-folk music. Who decides Which it is? I do.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 01 Feb 20 - 04:49 PM

This far down the thread, it could be easy to forget what Dave said in his OP, but having re-read it, I'd say my tastes in folk music are fairly close to his.
I do go to a number of events where "source singers" or their followers are the guests, and while I enjoy listening to them, I don't really feel like going out and learning a 40-verse ballad myself.
I do enjoy unusual line-ups, including a "bit of Brass" as in Brass Monkey or Bellowhead, and much further back, was blown away when I first heard the likes of Steeleye Span and Fairport Convention.
What I really don't like is people (usually younger, but not always the case), messing with much-loved songs and putting a thrashy rhythm on them, chopping up the words until they don't make sense any more, warbling all over the place until the original tune disappears (See previous posts re ER!).
Yes, and excessive speed does absolutely nothing for me: I like to be able to identify and enjoy the tune. I just LOVE slow airs: that doesn't mean that every tune should be played at slow air speed, but just let's have a little sensibility and musicality.
Parodies? Love the good ones, which stay nearest to the original words, but not keen on rude or smutty ones.
And please don't preach or tell me who to vote for if you're the esteemed guest: not needed in your between songs speech: and keep the balance between playing/singing and talking right. Some performers just talk too much!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 20 - 05:14 AM

OK- tells a story- there's a start- but so does Memphis Tennessee & it's much older

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Karen Impola
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 11:52 PM

Colin, when I think of "songwriting in a traditional style", the first thing that comes to mind is Richard Thompson's "1952 Vincent Black Lightning." It's a proper ballad, because it uses dialog to tell the story, with a minimum of narration.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 10:15 AM

Jack, I have an album by Theo Beckman where he does all Kate Bush stuff. I saw him live in New York , he played a lot of Kate..I wasn't sure I liked it. But the more I have listened to it, the more I appreciate the complexity of what he does. He does not work well as background music, but on headphones he really comes through.
I am not trying to Define tradition Colin, but if there is such a thing, I think Stan Rogers comes very close to emulating traditional writers.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 09:22 AM

Yes Olcay works with some wonderful musicians

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 08:39 AM

Joe G, thanks for the heads up on Olcay Bayir. I'm enamored of the accompaniments as much as I am of her beautiful singing.

DERMANIN OLAYIM - Olcay Bayir & Paul Dwyer

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 08:13 AM

somebody has to define the tradition to do that, Colin! good luck with that!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Colin Holt
Date: 30 Jan 20 - 07:50 AM

With reference to a response on this thread but earlier in the debate... (I think by Joe Offer)… I've heard many times reference to "writing in the traditional style".... As a songwriter, I'm keen to understand what this means... I've asked the question before but never really received a proper explanation … ?????

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 10:17 AM

This doesn't seem too expensive

CD Baby

This (which I have) is even cheaper:

Saray/Hislenis

I've bought most of my Turkish CDs in Istanbul. Kalan Muzik or Golden Horn should be easy enough to deal with remotely. The problem from the UK is finding some way to pay them - UK banks won't let you use their cards to buy stuff from Turkey.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 09:55 AM

Hi Jack, I like Yurdal Tokcan very much indeed. I went on Amazon to see what cds might be available. The prices were outrageous, over a hundred dollars in some cases. Do you have any idea why that would be ?

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 09:41 AM

In another thread, about Nic Jones:

yes it is understated, but in my opinion it is much better than bob dylan's, in my opinion dylan is a mediocre singer

I didn't have such a definite preference; yes Dylan is technically crap, but he does put SOME emotional expressiveness into his singing, whereas the Nic Jones link that was about combines brilliant guitar technique with a complete emotional blank in the vocals.

Which points up a preference I have always had, for vocals which actually communicate the feeling in the text. This isn't a matter of genre, though in some genres (like rembetiko or Arabic singing) you would just about never find a darkly emotional text set to light boppy shadowless music. Two versions of the same (non-folk) song:

John Renbourn

Theo Bleckmann

Renbourn turns it into party music (probably a children's party in silly hats). Bleckmann sounds like he actually understands what the song is about.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Joe G
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 08:18 AM

In this company another mention of the beautiful songs and voice of Turkish singer Olcay Bayir seems appropriate :-)

Olcay Bayir

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Nick
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 07:49 AM

That's the sort of folk I like too :)

FOLK I LIKE

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 07:43 AM

YURDAL TOKCAN - Nihavend Saz Semaisi 'DAMLALAR'

Sublime.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 07:39 AM

This is more like it :-) Well done all!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Jack Campin
Date: 28 Jan 20 - 07:33 AM

If you like Anouar Brahem you will probably like Yurdal Tokcan and Necati Celik - more in a pure classical style, though they both do collaborations.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 09:59 PM

Have spent the last hour listening Anouar Brahem and it is just stunning, he plays with passionate intensity. Thank you so much for the link. I will be listening to a lot more of this man!

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 01:44 PM

Yes, Gillymor, that is who I meant. Thank you for the links, I will surely give them a listen.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 01:17 PM

Music good, chauvinism bad.

Is this who you're referring to, HiLo?-
Layaali Arabic Music Ensemble - Samai Nahawand Rawhi Khammash


Good stuff,I especially like the Oud.
One of my favorites-
Anouar Brahem "Astrakan café"

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 12:40 PM

I like being around a good session in a pub; watching the dancing, too, at a festival; hearing a good unaccompanied singer or someone double the melody, perhaps with a bit of ornamentation - from folks who are at least trying to be as loyal to their OWN tradition as possible.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 12:18 PM

Sorry about the above, my eyesight is very poor. I meant to mention The Laialy Arabic Music Ensemble. I would provide a link...if I knew how..bit of a Luddite.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 12:11 PM

I,ve just listen to all three, enjoyed very much, especially the first one. Thanx so much.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 12:06 PM

I am 76, so therefor well and truly come from the second revival. In those days, as now, folk covers a wide church. Now, I have to say that I had 4 years of very intensive involvement on the scene as an unaccompanied floor singer and then 'married out. Always kept in touch through Folk on Two and Folk on Friday. Now with the net, all regional stations....and Mike Harding.
Getting to the point, although I listen to these folk programmes, I don't really enjoy them. I think it's because it seems to be the sound of the groups that matters and not the song. Girl singers all seem to be influenced by Kate Rusby including The Unthanks who have totally changed their style. I think I'd better stop there because I can see me going on forever.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 10:44 AM

Well HiLo, this flash mob video got me interested in playing Breton dance music- Zelda and Schottisse a Virmoux and I've since infected others.

Mountain Music Project, which can be found on Spotify, yielded Cluck Old Hen which I clawhammer along with. It was produced by a couple of American musicians who traveled around Nepal and recorded with some of the locals.

Then there is my current favorite fiddle tune, Hamnataing, which was composed by Shetland fiddler Chris Stout.
Hamnataing

This isn't even the tip of the tip of the iceberg.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 09:40 AM

Yes, gillymor, I know what you mean about discovering a whole world of music via the internet, things we barely knew about a few short years ago are now available to us. I listen to a lot of music on you tube and have really been enjoying a lot of traditional Arabic music, Bulgarian Choirs, Eastern Orthodox Music, North American "roots" music. We are so lucky to have all of this available to us.
    Is there anything you could suggest to us, something that you especially enjoyed ?

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: gillymor
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 09:18 AM

I can't say that I like or dislike "types of folk music" but I do tend to sing a lot of songs from America, Canada, Ireland, England and Scotland and play a lot of tunes from those countries along with tunes from Brittany, Sweden, Norway, Brazil and the Caribbean and enjoy listening to music from all cultures especially North Africa, the Middle East, Nepal, Tibet, China and India. Spotify, with all it alleged deficiencies, has really opened up the world of music for me.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 03:01 AM

I spotted that auto correct had changed culpa to cuppa but not the change from mea to new.

Mea culpa

I'll have a new cuppa :-)

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Jan 20 - 02:58 AM

Sigh. I promised I would try to steer BS away from this thread but I am weak! New Culpa :-(

HiLo.

1. You will note I said some people chose not to be members. That includes you.
2. Disputing what people state as fact, things like Burns was a misogynist, no matter how robustly is not bullying. It is arguing.
3. I agree that we should not blindly accept the opinion of experts. Nor should we blindly accept the word of someone who is proud of their lack of education. My tendency is to put more credence towards someone who has done their homework.

Now, can we put this to bed? What are your preferences in folk music?

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Stanron
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 10:00 PM

There's a program on BBC Radio 3 at 2 pm on a Sunday called The Early Music Show. Today, or yesterday by now, it featured music by Corelli, Locatelli, Valentini and Pergolesi. I was in heaven. This is what I love to listen to.

I like playing traditional tunes. Particularly I like to play traditional tunes in company.

I can live without listening to other people sing, and experience has suggested that other people reciprocate, but have to admit I just don't get unaccompanied singing. I'm not a farmer, I hate muddy fields and never wanted to follow a plough. It's the music that gets me.

The words, not so much.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 09:11 PM

Pattern emerging here, Stanron. You post gratuitous insults but only way after midnight. Now just put that corkscrew down and walk slowly away...


Then go to bed...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Stanron
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 08:44 PM

Spoken like a true bully.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 08:37 PM

You can be "bullied" just as much whether you're properly signed in or not, so, basically, don't be such an arse.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Hilo
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 07:04 PM

I have not had membership revoked, I choose not to go there because , Dave, people like you choose to bully those who disagree with you. I admit to not being an expert on Burns, but I am not prepared to accept a point of view based on no evidence just because an “academic” said said so. burns was a complicated and multi faceted man, his poetry reflected his time and place. twenty first values do not apply and it is intellectually lazy to. Suggest that they do. my guess is that you do not know much about Burns and have chosenTo belittle someone who may, perhaps know more than you do. above or below the line that is petty and wrong headed,

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 06:04 PM

Hmm It's debatable if Burns is folk at all. Most of the big songs were produced for aristocratic patrons, or aristocratic lovers. I think he would be delighted to have his songs covered by as many people as possible and in as many styles, so long as they were popular, especially if like today, they meant money in the writers pocket.
I enjoy the popularising of folk music as long as the performer has a genuine love of what they do, and can transmit enthusiasm for the product to their audience.....didanyone watch the faces of the crowd as Daoiri and Four Winds played.....magic.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 05:11 PM

Now, can we stop the BS or continue below the line?

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 05:11 PM

More poison contributed by unsigned-in people. I have tried really hard to persuade the mods that no-one should post to this forum unless they are signed in and can be identified by mods. The dirtiest word on this forum is "guest." Still, don't listen to me...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 05:10 PM

I can post below the line because I am signed in. If you are not a member you cannot sign in. Some people chose not to be members. Fine, but they cannot post below the line and accept that. Some people have had membership revoked so they try to bring BS up here. Nothing to do with superiority. Everything to do with keeping BS out of the music section. Anyone can become a member. Just see the FAQ thread. Seemples.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Hochma Gandhi
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 04:03 PM

"those who cannot post below the line.... " Meaning what ? What makes you so superior ?

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 03:11 PM

Hopefully that is it but if those who cannot post below the line continue in this way on this thread could be closed. That would be a pity so please stop now.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 02:48 PM

:0) Ah, always the voice of reason Al. Thanks Hilo, appreciated.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 02:36 PM

Its not actually compulsory for us to all have the same perspective on folk music.

I suppose resentment arises when we feel - a different view gets more of the limelight than our view.

I don't know what the answer is. Probably there isn't one.

I remember on Monkey World, the late Jim Cronin made this comment when a group of monkeys killed the old and past it leader of the troupe. 'There are no bad guys here - its just the way monkeys carry on.'

and folk music fans, maybe.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 02:16 PM

No Dave, it is Not sterotyping, it is, in some cases, an accurate observation. Calling people uneducated bigots is not what I call sticking to the topic..perhaps you should reserve your bullying for below the line Dave.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 02:12 PM

Hilo. Ake has very proudly proclaimed his lack of education many times on this very forum. That is the uneducated bit. He also classes people with a university education as lacking in common sense. That is stereotyping and is the primary trait of bigotry. You would do well to educate yourself with facts before spouting forth.

But this is all by the way. This thread is about different types of folk music. I will not let it become a platform for those who cannot or will not post below the line, where BS belongs. Continuing on this tack will result in thread closure so I will say no more on the subject. I suggest you and others stick to the topic.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 01:44 PM

I find you comments with regard to Ake, hateful and offensive Dave.
"uneducated bigot" ? What a nasty wee man you can be at times.
As for Burns, I have read a fair amount, I would not align him in any way with a "gender equality" movement..he was a man of his time, no more, no less.
One thing I do know is that some University "educated" researchers are driven more by ideology than by facts. I am not saying that this is the case here, however, one should be somewhast skeptical these days and not fall into the intellectual trap of believing that "academics" are infallible.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 01:34 PM

It wasn't me that proudly proclaimed a lack of education and tarred all university graduates as lacking sense, Ake.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: GUEST,akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 01:29 PM

Definitely the "uneducated bigot", you may learn something to broaden your mind, but I wont hold my breath.

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 01:23 PM

Hmmmm. Who should we believe? Pauline Gray, a university researcher who specialises in Robert Burns and gives lectures on the subject, writing in a respected Scottish publicaton, or a self-proclaimed uneducated bigot writing in an obscure folk music forum? Tough one...

Subject: RE: Types of folk music you like or dislike
From: WalkaboutsVerse
Date: 26 Jan 20 - 01:22 PM

Thanks, Akenaton, I agree that is good Irish music and certainly wouldn't mind being in a pub with a pint of Guinness and that mob playing...and, if there were no Irish dancers there, perhaps glancing up at a tv screen to catch some Gaelic football...