BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 09:50 AM

Also some reports today about the Russians capturing 10 pirates in three small speed boats.

---

For later discussion, please see threads crosslinked above.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Feb 09 - 08:19 AM

Score two for the U.S. Navy. They have captured two skiffs loaded to the gunwales with Somali pirates on two successive days. Each skiff was in the process of attacking a merchant ship.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 04:55 PM

Teribus-

Noted.

We both agree that the present situation is outrageous. And that there is no substitute for a well trained navel presence in the Gulf of Aden.

I do wish there were alternative initiatives that would address the economic and security concerns of the Somali people; they are not all practicing pirates nor practicing terrorists.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 11:00 AM

Certainly not Charley, the current state of affairs just reminds of a converstion I remember from about that time where someone observed that it had been the presence of the Royal Navy in Aden and in Singapore that had been the force that had erradicated piracy or reduced it to a negligible level and who then went on to venture the opinion that once gone the "trade" would resume as it had done before. Events proved him to be 100% correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 08:15 AM

Teribus-

If only "the British" hadn't withdrawn from east of Suez in the 1960's!

But you really weren't suggesting that as a preferred option.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 10 Feb 09 - 01:04 AM

"Recent reports indicate the North Carolina-based firm is building a small but potent flotilla to deliver maritime protection against the increased threat of international piracy.

Pirates were on the wane and marginalized to a select few global waterways only a few years ago," - From link supplied by Charley Noble

Blackwater's ships are certainly not news, they've been operating their "Q" ships for some time without any great deal of success.

As to piracy having been on the wane, I don't know so much about that, it has been steadily on the increase in far eastern waters, in the Gulf of Aden and off Nigeria since the British withdrew from east of Suez in the 1960's.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 10:17 PM

Here's some more musing about why it's gonna be difficult to eradicate piracy in the Gulf of Aden: click here!

Blackwater Security to the rescue?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 09:20 AM

Seems as if the pirates got away with the loot, with the naval forces judiciously watching: click here for article!

Pirate spokesman Aden Abdi Omar reported that they were all safe ashore, and having a good time painting Sailortown red.

The Navy did not take action against the pirates because they still hold many hostages from other ships, said Cmdr. Jane Campbell, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Navy's Bahrain-based 5th Fleet. "Even when you release Faina, there are still 147 mariners held hostage," Campbell told the AP. "We're concerned for their well-being."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Feb 09 - 09:17 AM

"If you want to stop the pirates you hit the bases from which they operate."

Yes. That would be the most effective military response to the present situation. That's certainly what I would recommend if I were in command of an anti-piracy effort in those waters.

Meanwhile, however...according to a recent article someone linked to below...

"Piracy is one of the few ways to make money in Somalia. Half the population is dependent on aid and a whole generation has grown up knowing nothing but war. A recent report by London's Chatham House think-tank said pirates raked in more than $30 million in ransoms last year."

So, that desperate situation is the engine that is driving the growth of piracy in the region, and the piracy becomes inevitable under those circumstances. Smashing their coastal bases would temporarily shut them down, but the only thing that could permanently cure the problem would be to improve financial conditions for ordinary people in Somalia, to rescue a society that has fallen apart and been abandoned to fester in its own isolation and despair...

No one seems willing to take that burden on. Not surprising, when you think about it...specially in these bad economic times. Who, after all, would be the first to say "We'll do it." ?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 07:51 PM

This evening's news had images of the ransom being parachuted to the pirates.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 05 Feb 09 - 08:33 AM

Here's an update on the status of the Ukrainian ship the Faina, the one loaded to the gunwales with tanks and other heavy weapons: Click here for article!

Evidently the pirates have settled for $3 million as a ransom, plus the movie rights to their saga.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 01:55 AM

Q ships are not the answer, they were never really that effective during time of war as the Q-ship had to stumble across the path of a submarine or surface raider. Likewise in this situation it would be hit and miss and the Q-ship would only be able to take on the small boats that the pirates are using in their attacks, the pirate's "mother-ship" would remain safe, out of sight and range.

If you want to stop the pirates you hit the bases from which they operate.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 06:24 PM

Les-

We were musing about Q-ships somewhat earlier in this thread.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Les from Hull
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 12:42 PM

It seems to me that the best solution against this sort of piracy would be the use of 'Q ships'. Concealing a few 30mm cannon on a tanker and sending it to sea with a navy crew shouldn't be too difficult for any of the nations whose vessels are at risk in these waters. Mind you, for all I know they may be already doing this.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 02 Feb 09 - 02:08 AM

So the Somali pirayes are only interested in money, so I take it they will not be too concerned about who pays it, doesn't necessarily have to be the vessel's owners does it.

Those engaged in anti-piracy patrols should watch this ship very carefully and the second it is "released" it should quarantined and searched before it is allowed to proceed.

None of which alters the fact that what is happening off the shores of Somalia is unacceptable and if the rest of the world want this practice stopped they should start doing something concrete to erradicate it.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 02:56 PM

Teribus-

However, it seems that the Somali pirates are more interested in ransom than terroristic acts.

Some of us have raised your question with regard to LPG tankers berthing in major populated areas in the States, and were always told that the capture of such a ship was extremely unlikely. Hah!

I'm still astounded that such ships navigate the seven seas without a security detachment.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Feb 09 - 04:16 AM

Yep MV Longchamp LPG Tanker, put in the "right" place with the vents open then detonated, the effect would be similar to that of a small nuclear weapon or more accurately a Massive Ordinance Air Burst bomb (MOAB).

Detonated in the "right" port this could kill about up to about 500,000 people.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 08:08 AM

Teribus-

My mistake. It was a LPG tanker, the MV Longehamp.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 31 Jan 09 - 05:07 AM

Now that is one that warrants keeping a very close eye on and should be boarded, taken under command and carefully searched as soon as it has been "released" by those "Jolly Pirate" Chaps. Not quite as dangerous as LPG, but if a terrorist group did play their cards right with this LNG carrier it could be turned into a "Terrorist Spectacular" that would make the attacks of 9/11 look like a minor misdemeanor.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 30 Jan 09 - 09:29 PM

Not to be a bore but the Somalis have made another major capture, this time a German tanker loaded with Liquid Natural Gas (LNG). The link doesn't provide as much information as my morning newspaper: Click here for report

LNG is of course highly explosive.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Jan 09 - 07:57 AM

Heric-

Yes, but only to the highlands of Ethiopia. No wqy I'm going anywhere near Somalia.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 09:51 PM

Charley is your trip still a go?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 07:50 PM

The CNN report this evening from one of the pirate survivors claimed that they had almost made it ashore when other pirates, on shore, began firing at them. It's when they tried to head back out to sea that their small boat capsized.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Barry Finn
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 04:02 PM

The irony of Poetic Justice.
May they all go to their watery graves

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jan 09 - 03:12 PM

"The body of a Somali pirate who reportedly drowned soon after receiving a huge ransom has washed ashore with $153,000 in cash, his uncle says.

The man was one of a group of pirates who seized the Saudi supertanker Sirius Star in November.

They reportedly received $3m (£1.95m) for freeing the tanker but five were said to have drowned after fleeing.

A relative of the drowned pirate told the BBC the family was now trying to dry out the recovered money.

The pirates' boat capsized when they were hit by rough seas as they were heading back to their homes in central Somalia, the leader of the pirates told AFP.

'Parachute drop'

The pirates disembarked the Sirius Star on Friday, after a small plane was seen apparently dropping the ransom by parachute on to the tanker.

A negotiator for the pirates told the BBC's reporter in Mogadishu by telephone that a $3m ransom had been paid shortly after the ship was released.

The ship's owner has refused to comment.

The tanker had been held for nearly two months off the coast of Somalia, near the town of Harardhere.

Eyewitnesses in the coastal town said five of the pirates had drowned while trying to make off with the loot.

"One of them was discovered and they are still looking for the other ones," resident Omar Abdi Hassan told the BBC.

The uncle of the pirate who washed ashore, Abukar Sheikh Hassan, told the BBC that the family had found $153,000 in a plastic bag in his pocket.

He said some of the money was wet and the family was now trying to dry it out." (BBC News)

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 05:08 PM

Tom-

Well, such piracy is a risky business.

Thanks for the update.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: curmudgeon
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 11:24 AM

Easy Come, easy go!

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 11:18 AM

Yo, ho, ho and a bottle of araqi (arab white lightning)!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Barry Finn
Date: 10 Jan 09 - 12:59 AM

15 men on a dead man's chest

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 11:26 PM

Oh, here's a link to the rest of the story from an "embedded" journalist pirate: Click here for article!

It's not easy to divide $3 million.

Maybe giving them all that loot is the final solution for destroying the pirates.

Weird!

But true!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Jan 09 - 10:22 PM

Well, not a bad haul, $3 million for a Saudi oil tanker. According to the news reports the loot was parachuted to the deck of the tanker, directly accessible to the resident pirates. I do wonder how the pirates plan to escape.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 07:32 PM

What made me laugh is that traditionally pirates always had an English "West Country" accent. - Think/Google "Yellow beard" etc

Better ring Hollywood and make sure they now have Somali accents.....

Who's up for remaking some classic pirate films and are we still allowed to shout "ahar jim lad" in our best west country pirate accents?

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Dec 08 - 09:25 AM

Here's a link to where an attempt has been made to map where Somali pirates have captured ships for ransom: Click here for article!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Dec 08 - 10:37 AM

Here's an update on the Chinese Navy's effort to deal with the Somali pirates in the Gulf of Aden: Click here for article

The Chinese are estimating that there are some 30 different groups of pirates with a total membership of a 1000. That's not including the pirate wantabees on Mudcat.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 05:40 PM

Meanwhile here's an update on the issues facing the Obama Administration when it comes to power in January: click here for article

I can't resist quoting one paragraph which has a delightful typo:

"Ethiopia, which has been protecting the ineffectual and fractured Somali government, recently announced it would withdraw its troops by the end of this month. That will leave the Western-baked (sic) government vulnerable to Islamic insurgents and further chaos."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 05:31 PM

Barry-

Thanks for supporting a more balanced approach to dealing with piracy than that advocated by our straight-shooting messmate above.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Barry Finn
Date: 20 Dec 08 - 12:38 AM

Again, it's a case of the doctor treating the symptoms rather than looking at the causes & the actual reality of the situation. While I see pirates in the same light as terrorists, which is they belong in hell, that doesn't mean blast away like we do everywhere else. With just a bit of study & examination of the problem we're much more likely to come up with a better solution than the Iraqi "fire away at every thing & everyone" way.
It's always "fire away", not one ounce of thought about the pros & cons, not thought about the who gets clobbered along the way & why, not thought about what's created the situation, no thought of talk, no thoughts at all, it's no wonder we are in such a mess everywhere we go, christ we didn't even know how some middle east cultures had a hate dogs when we baited them with Fido. Same damn reaction we use when it comes to terrorists, not thought, no reason, no use talking, some will never seek out the causes they only care to treat pronblem by treating the symptoms & they never understand that unless we find the cause the problems will never be cured.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 07:35 PM

Surprisingly, we won't agree on this thread discussion either.

And it is General "Petraeus" for the record. When I can't spell someone's name I utilize copy and paste.

The Somali pirates need to be put down but describing them (and all other pirates) as "vermin" ignores who they actually are and why they are doing what they are doing.

It seems naive to me that you think there are no political dimensions to what is occurring in the Gulf of Aden.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 19 Dec 08 - 12:56 AM

You are comparing apples to oranges and you know it.

What you are looking at off the coasts of Somalia and Yemen has no "political" dimension, what the "pirates" are doing is solely for monetary gain.

General Paraeus had an Iraqi Government to work with, in Somalia there is nothing.

Your "solution":

"And that is called paying the Dane-geld;
But we've proved it again and again,
That if once you have paid him the Dane-geld
You never get rid of the Dane."

Courtesy of Rudyard Kipling.

Pirates are vermin and should be put down as such - it discourages others who might fancy trying to make a living that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 09:43 PM

Teribus-

Fortunately for the American armed forces, General Petraeus radically changed the tactics used for putting down the Iraqi insurrection. He replaced the shoot on sight, call in air support when you're in difficulty, with hiring former militants to root out the more radical domestic elements and their foreign allies. Having the smarts to know who to hire and who not to hire has helped in a major way to make the surge a military success; our manpower and military hardware would never have been sufficient unless we were willing to slaughter every Iraqi man women and child, and that would have been an unacceptable victory.

With regard to the Somalis, I would hardly recommend what appears to be your preferred military response. Who was it who first said "If every problem were a nail, the hammer would be the solution"?

Understanding your enemy, his strengths and his weaknesses, is key to success.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 07:30 PM

Point 1:
"That's an interesting point, that piracy is not a "crime" but an "act of war." But Somalia is a "failed state" and most observers agree that the current "government" is flying apart. Can there be "war" without a "state?" Or in your opinion, does it even matter."

Of course there can Charley, you are fighting a war now, the war on terror, where there is no state. It is one of the most important wars that western civilisation has ever fought, get your head round it and get behind it, because there is no negotiation with your foe, he wants you and your way of life destroyed completely.

Point 2:
"Firing on sight and destroying" may be the most effective deterrent for future piracy, but it also runs the risk of recruiting more volunteers for the world wide battle against the non-Moslem world, recruiting volunteers who were only interested in economic crimes."

As has been seen in Iraq where the likes of the Jihadists and Al-Qaeda have been tempted into "open" combat - they die, and they die in vast numbers. No risk, you hammer them from their ports, you hammer every bloody thing that sets out from the coasts of Somalia and Yemen, you imprint on their minds that it is they who must signal first to the world at large that they set sail with peaceful intent. Establish shipping lanes, then IF any daft twats in small boats armed to teeth with RPG7's and AK47's wander into those shipping lanes they will die. Death Charley is not a great a recruiting Sergeant, as Al-Qaeda has found in Iraq.

"Furthermore military commanders in the Gulf of Aden are cautious about pursuing pirates to their home ports and destroying their infrastructure and homes, despite the new UN resolution. The collateral damage that would likely occur would also embitter people who have little else to lose."

Then replace the military commanders for ones who will for every attempt at piracy will close the coast and subject "pirate" ports to 12 hours of naval bombardment, imprint on the minds of those living there that the pirates that you seem to love and romaticize about are a bloody liability, and I mean literally a "bloody" liability.

"You may be "totally disinterested in whatever excuses are invented" but that is precisely the kind of attitude that recruits volunteers for groups such as Al Qada."

Em, No it doesn't Charley, the fact that those who swell the "pirate" ranks think that they may get rich from their enterprise recruits volunteers. If your so-loved "pirates" and the people in the communities that support them start dying in droves because of the activities of "pirates" them the learning curve becomes quite short and "piracy" as an occupation gets abandoned pdq on account of the health risks involved.

"I welcome the Chinese Navy in the Gulf of Aden and hope they have learned some lessons in when and how to use force to protect international commerce."

I said that I would be interested to see what the Chinese Naval forces are going to do. My bet, it will be like a repeat of the Russian Fleet sailing to take on the Japanese in 1905. They have no distant force projection experience, their RAS skills if anything like the old Soviet Navy will be laughable, their effectiveness minimal.

Pirates, Charley Noble, you engage on sight, you do everything in your power to sink them on sight, they have no human rights, they left those behind ashore the minute they set sail to plunder and rob, they, through choice, put themselves outwith the law. You do not take prisoners, you do not capture people for trials, you kill them there and then. Lessons learned are then simple and very, very clear to understand from everybodies point of view.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 12:51 PM

Teribus-

That's an interesting point, that piracy is not a "crime" but an "act of war." But Somalia is a "failed state" and most observers agree that the current "government" is flying apart. Can there be "war" without a "state?" Or in your opinion, does it even matter.

"Firing on sight and destroying" may be the most effective deterrent for future piracy, but it also runs the risk of recruiting more volunteers for the world wide battle against the non-Moslem world, recruiting volunteers who were only interested in economic crimes. Furthermore military commanders in the Gulf of Aden are cautious about pursuing pirates to their home ports and destroying their infrastructure and homes, despite the new UN resolution. The collateral damage that would likely occur would also embitter people who have little else to lose.

You may be "totally disinterested in whatever excuses are invented" but that is precisely the kind of attitude that recruits volunteers for groups such as Al Qada.

I welcome the Chinese Navy in the Gulf of Aden and hope they have learned some lessons in when and how to use force to protect international commerce.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Dec 08 - 05:18 AM

Well then M.Tted and Charley, I fervently hope that the pair of you get the opportunity to display that "certain child-like delight" when you actually experience a battle with pirates. A friend of mine, a Norwegian Merchant Navy Captain, has had three such encounters, all of which he said were terrifying, in the last he lost his left arm just below the elbow - he was wearing a watch you see. Because of this he will not be subjected to another mainly due to the fact that he can no longer "follow the sea" as a profession.

I read reports today that following attacks on three Chinese vessels the Chinese Government is sending a naval force to the area which should be interesting. It's the first time in 600 years that Chinese warships have left "home" waters.

On this the EU wants to pull its head out of its a**e and forget all this nonsense about "Piracy" being a crime, its not, its an act of war and should be responded to as such. Instructions with regard to rules of engagement to warships patrolling the area should be fire on sight and destroy. The intention should be to make anyone in Somalia think twice before they think of even taking a walk along the beach. I am totally disinterested in whatever excuses are invented for what is happening in that corner of the world, what is going on is totally unacceptable and that message must be impressed upon those engaged in this "business". The sooner that this is done the better as far as I'm concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Dec 08 - 12:57 PM

Here's a recent and more comprehensive article from Time Magazine with a haunting set of images of various captive "pirates": click here for article

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 08:05 PM

Exactly!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: M.Ted
Date: 15 Dec 08 - 10:06 AM

I know that it is a "serious" subject, and that, as adults, we are obliged to consider this issue with the appropriate gravity, but I must confess a certain child-like delight at hearing reports about battles with pirates on the morning news.

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 08:29 PM

Refreshing once!

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Dec 08 - 09:05 AM

For those keeping score, the Indian Navy announced today their successful capture of 23 suspected pirates, both Somali and Yemeni, in the Gulf of Aden: click here for article

In addition to the 12 Somali and 11 Yemeni suspects, the Indian navy seized two small boats and "a substantial cache of arms and equipment," the military said in a statement.

"Among the seized items were seven AK-47 automatic rifles, three other automatic weapons and 13 loaded magazines; a rocket-propelled grenade launcher along with rockets, cartridges and grenades; up to three outboard motors and a global positioning system receiver."

Now they've got the thorny problem of figuring out what to do with them.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Dec 08 - 08:45 AM

Here's an update on some of the legal issues with regard to prosecuting "suspected pirates": click here for article

Interesting!

"Putting Pirates in the Dock" LOL

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Pirates capture Saudi oil tanker
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Dec 08 - 12:48 PM

Heric-

If this wasn't such a serious story, real people being endangered for profit, it would make a great Woody Allen comedy. They even grow bananas in Somalia, or they used to!

Charley Noble