BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 09:30 PM

Yes, it has been thoroughly covered, Dorothy. And my question is, indeed, rhetorical. I have asked it many times of those who seem to be the most (what else can I say?) homophobic here on this thread, but of course, I don't expect them to give me an answer. It would be far too frightening for them to even consider the question. Nevertheless, I think one should keep asking it.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 09:06 PM

Don, I rather hope that is a rhetorical question as there is no doubt that those who are most phobic are those who fear that could be "that way" themselves. This man must have been terribly insecure about his "masculinity."

As I do not have the time/patience to go back and read 1800 posts, perhaps this has already been addressed. However. It is quite clear that there is every range of human, and other animals, from very masculine to very feminine. Research has actually shown that those who are androgynous tend to be the most contented.

I do not care to try to convince anyone of anything other than the simple goal of respecting each person where they are as we each move through our life experiences.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 08:33 PM

I've often wondered why he cared so excessively. What did two guys holding hands mean to him? How could it affect him unless he let it? And why would he do that?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 08:27 PM

"No one in their right mind would advocate this sort of abuse."

I agree with the "right mind" part of it, Ake, but there are a distressingly large number of people like that out there.

He's no longer around here, but there was a man living in the apartment building where I live who was pretty close to this type. He was highly "religious" (very fundamentalist) and he hated, loathed, and despised gays.

One time he dropped by my apartment to rage and storm (knowing my wife and I were fairly regular church-goers, he assumed that I agreed with him) because he had just seen two men walking in the nearby park and holding hands. I think he was furious because God didn't immediately strike them with lightning.

I thought he was going to have a stroke!

A real sick-o!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 05:53 PM

ake, i forgot to say hello. sorry that was bad manners.

i hope the work thing wasn't stressful!!

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 05:48 PM

normally i have quite a sick sense of homour, but that went beyond me.

AKE, iam really trying to get to know you and you are not making it easy for me to like you.
your' reaction to that article suprises me, as much as you condemn the people who do this, they believe like you do, that being gay is something you can fix,though you do not agree on their methods.

why WON'T you answer any of my questions? do they make you think too much or is it that you are incapable of giving answers?
i will worry about you if it is the latter.

i am not trying to make you feel inadaquate(?)i am merely interested in why you think how you do and how you came to those conclusions.

it is so easy for you to try and make me feel bad, but the thing is you cannot, because i simply refuse to let you get to me. i did at first but that was before i remembered that...you don't actually know me and i don't know you. so why don't you stop with the petty insults and actually talk TO me and not AT me.


take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 04:44 PM

Hi Fans....I've been busy with work over the weekend and had no time to read the thread....nothing of any value other than Little Hawk's patient attempts to educate.

I don't think you guys realise how lucky you are to to have a genuine philosopher all to yourselves.
Personally , I think he's wasting his time.....as my wise old uncle used to say, "ye cannae educate pork".

Ebbies link has me puzzled, is this satire as she suggests? or simply a piece of propaganda.
No one in their right mind would advocate this sort of abuse. I certainly would not, and I am equally certain GfS wouldn't either.

I have absolutely no truck with mad religious fundamentalists.

I have stated earlier, that I see homosexuality as a psychological problem, and as such I agree with GfS that the problem could respond to counselling or therapy, but only if this course of action is requested by the the homosexual.

To imply as Jeddy does, that either myself or GfS would promote the "medieval" treatment described in Ebbie's link, is frankly ludicrous.
I see Jeddy awards me "the benefit of the doubt"...I am deeply honoured to have this benefit bestowed upon me, but cant help wondering, with friends like Jeddy who needs enemies?

I am also beginning to take stock of people who post that sort of stuff, does it take the discussion forward or drive a phoney wedge between us?....and what does it prove in the context of the debate....that their are mad people in the various churches? Surely we all knew that already, and the fact that they are victimising a homosexual is incidental, I could just as easily be the demon of lust,psychiatric illness, or blindness they were attempting to excorsise.
I see a large portion of ill considered mischief in Ebbie's link.
Fortunately folks you have me here to guide you through the minefield..:0).....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 02:56 PM

It once again reminded me that there are still people alive in this world who have not advanced beyond the most abject forms of medieval superstition.

That's not religion or spirituality. That's mass delusion.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 02:15 PM

EBBIE, THAT WAS HORRIBLE!! sorry didn't mean to shout, i couldn't read more than a few paragraphs either.

i wonder if they gave the poor sod any drugs or whether he had epilepsy that was triggered by the stress of it all?

yet that shows the sort of thing that AKE? and GFS would like to see happen more often.

AKE, as you can see, i have given you the benefit of doubt here as i don't think you are quite as hardcore as GFS.

i confess i didn't see what year this was in, but i am sure this still happens somewhere in the world as a valid way of "curing" homosexuality.
mmmm nice thought!!!

it works on the same theory that if someone shouts it into my arm, they could make me "normal" by then cutting it off, worrying isn't it? that someone could have that much belief i would call that a zelot, but someone else would call that faith.

i am glad it is not late at night i think that would have given me nightmares.

take care all

jade x x

ps i feel dirty, did that article make anyone else feel like that?
x xxxxx x x x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:34 PM

Ebbie - Yuck! I read a paragraph or two of it and that was quite enough, thanks. It's a tale of mutual hatred and loathing, combined with utter certainty of one's own moral superiority to someone else, and those are the emotions which fuel that particular confrontation...from either side. I see no possibility of it leading to anything useful on either side. The religious fanatics in that church will just be all the more sure that THEY are in the right and are saving humanity by driving the "demon" out of a boy...and the guy writing to them will wallow gloriously in his own righteous loathing and detestation of them, sure that HE is making the world safer for humanity, and everybody's day will get a little bit nastier.

A good basis for launching a war, if that's what you want, but not a good basis for improving anyone's attitude on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:17 PM

The War of 1812!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:04 PM

This, Little Hawk, is the kind of satire I understand.

The Homosexual Demon

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 07:36 AM

Now, don't keep tempting me to post here, folks! ;-)

It's satire that I'm engaging in.

And, yes, of course I'm one of them (those who wish to be "right")...and I know it. The fact that I know it helps me to:

- laugh at myself as well as others
- realize that I am not always right, even if I think I am
- see what we all have in common in that respect
- and thereby, remain relatively tolerant of a variety of differing viewpoints, remembering that we all all fallible...

And that always helps.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 05:52 AM

""They'll die rather than not get the last word. I know this. That's why I keep winning the bets.""


Of course you know that, LH.

YOU are one of them!!

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 02:59 AM

Not to mention that he likes to prove himself right. He's not as different as he sometimes thinks. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 28 Jun 09 - 12:36 AM

Jade:

Don't be fooled by Little Hawks pretentious veneer of aloof superiority. It is just a justified position of disengagement that keeps him safe.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 11:17 PM

Thanks. ;-) Okay, I've said enough. Any more and I would be rigging the bet unfairly. See you at 1900 if it gets that far.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:40 PM

surely they give in?? they must have lost most of their furniture by now!!!

i don't THINK i am trying to get anyone to change their minds or admit to being wrong, what i would like is (excuse the pun) straight talking and honesty. when i get that i will be happy,but if not...i think you should bet for cars or houses!!!

good luck!!

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:32 PM

Yes, it was a bet. You see, the person I'm betting against has repeatedly been quite convinced that this thread couldn't possibly go on as far as another 100 posts. What would be the point, after all? And yet it does! Due to this extraordinary phenomenon, I have won a series of bets with this person whose only failing is that they don't realize just how far some people will go to prove that another person is "wrong"! ;-)

I do realize how far people will go when it comes to that. They'll go to the end of the Universe and back again. They'll die rather than not get the last word. I know this. That's why I keep winning the bets.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:18 PM

that is a nice lamp. but i don't understand why/how you won it, do you have a bet on or something? i will try for you and unless we get some answers i think you might just win!


jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:12 PM

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!   Together you reached 1800 posts! I am eternally grateful, because it won me this art object:

Beautiful lamp!

Keep them posts a-rollin' IN! You would not believe what I stand to win if you reach 1900...

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:09 PM

please tell me where i can get some nibbles, i am starving!!

hey, does anyone know where GfS has gone?   i kinda miss him!

well done guys this has reached 1800 posts, i am proud of you all for not giving up!!

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 09:04 PM

whoosh

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 08:37 PM

Here I am an apparent "bottom feeder", with an empty plate so to speak!

Actually, it occurs to me that a bottom feeder is one who puts the nibbles into to a....oh, never mind. Unwanted visual.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 08:22 PM

bum nibbles sounds good can i get some delivered???

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 08:20 PM

I hate it when that happens! You've got a great line, then blow it with a typo. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 08:09 PM

...a bottom I nibble on a bit sometimes...

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: frogprince
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 08:06 PM

Not sure about "bottom feeder", but there's a bottom I nibble on at bit sometimes...

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 07:42 PM

Anybody care to define "bottom feeder?"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: TIA
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 06:13 PM

Ake,
Please steer me to my "bottom feeding" post(s), so I can know what to avoid in the future. No need for a link, just the date and time is okay.
Thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 03:48 PM

TIA,   i would say not!!! from what i can remember you talk alot of sense.
don't worry, anyone who does answer questions and gives their honest opinion could never be a moron as long as they have tried their best!!!

AKE, you really need to be more precise with your' insults as you could end up offending the innocent!!

i suspect the moron was me, thts okay i have been called worse.
if it makes you feel better to belittle others then i think you need counceling to improve your' self esteem., no one should have to resort to that to make themselves feel better, unless of course you are playing verbal ping pong,in which case you can do alot better than that AKE.

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 03:39 PM

Naw.... you've a little ways to climb yet Tia.....I'm afraid you're still down among the "bottom feeders"   :0).

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: TIA
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 03:13 PM

Am I one of the morons Ake?

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jun 09 - 10:57 AM

Charles Blow, of the NYT, writes in the context of the flapdoodle about the governor who went meandering to Argentina:


"...Sanford voted to impeach Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky saga. According to The Post and Courier of Charleston, Sanford called Clinton's behavior "reprehensible" and said, "I think it would be much better for the country and for him personally" to resign. "I come from the business side. ... If you had a chairman or president in the business world facing these allegations, he'd be gone." Remember that Mr. Sanford?

And this kind of hypocrisy isn't confined to the politicians. It permeates the electorate. While conservatives fight to "defend" marriage from gays, they can't keep theirs together. According to the Census Bureau's Statistical Abstract, states that went Republican in November accounted for eight of the 10 states with the highest divorce rates in 2006.

Conservatives touted abstinence-only education, which was a flop, when real sex education was needed, most desperately in red states. According to 2006 data from the Guttmacher Institute, those red states accounted for eight of the 10 states with the highest teenage birthrates.

And, a study titled "Red Light States: Who Buys Online Adult Entertainment?" that was conducted by Benjamin Edelman, an assistant professor of business at Harvard Business School and published earlier this year in the Journal of Economic Perspectives found that subscriptions to online pornography sites were "more prevalent in states where surveys indicate conservative positions on religion, gender roles, and sexuality" and in states where "more people agree that 'I have old-fashioned values about family and marriage.' "

They could avoid this hypocrisy by focusing more on what happens in their own bedrooms and avoiding the trap of judging what goes on in everyone else's."

---

Those who promote inequality based on an absorbing interest in other people's sexuality should read the above twice.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 08:24 PM

DON T i know he feels like he doesn't have to explain himself and normally i would agree he shouldn't BUT he has made this seem like apersonal crusade. i don't feel insulted even if i should do, i just feel bewildered as to why he won't be honest and try to see things from anothers point of veiw.

i feel that unless we have some truth this is going to go on forever.

i can understand that SOME men might find male gay sex as abnormal, BUT did you know that one of the erroganous(?) zones in a man is a half way up his arse?   i have no idea why but it is.

i thought a naughty sentance coming on, but feel you deserve more than petty insults AKE.


i have no problem in admitting my faults and i have done plenty of times in the short while i have been here, why can't you?

i really want to respect you and have a feeling that, about any other subject you are a reasonable chap. please prove me right to put my faith in you.

if you are homophobic because you just cannot get your' head around it, but have tried to, then that is aplauddable(?) because you have at least tried and been honest.

that i can respect, but i cannot until you have at least been honest.

please try to imagine how you would feel if we ever met, we like each other untill you find out i am gay, would you shun me or accept it and carry on a really good chat? i would be very interested to find out which??? the same goes for a bloke, who has not have come on to you?   would the two reactions be different? if they would then why????????

anyway i am rather mashed and this has taxed my few brain cells that work.

goodnight all sweet dreams

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 07:14 PM

I was actually referring to other morons Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:25 PM

"Some of my best friends here do not agree with me, but never stoop to replacing reason with invective."

I believe you missed something there, Ake:   it is YOU who are stooping to invective.

"Moron," indeed!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:13 PM

""KB and Don....Some of my best friends here do not agree with me, but never stoop to replacing reason with invective.""

You have friends here?

Try to learn from their example then, and dispense with words like moron.

You are well aware that most here are at least as well educated as yourself, and likewise intelligent.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:08 PM

""Well Don, If you say if you say no significant effect either way, I will accept that....I never thought homosexual "marriage" would have a negative effect on homosexual promiscuity(can the current figures GET anymore negative?)""

And there you go again Ake. I didn't say that!    YOU DID!!

My response was to the point that if there were no SIGNIFICANT effects, there could be no justification for YOUR health red herring.

So what is your REAL reason for objecting?


""ake, why would you be shooting into a barrel by anwering my questions? i appreciate that you are not insulting me with silence and i understand is very hard to stand against the tide. i applaud that you have the courage to keep your' point of view.

i do not understand it and like i have said before i wish i could understand where you are coming from and why.""


It's really very simple Jade. Having been taken to task for insulting you by ignoring your presence, our ill mannered friend has changed tack, and is now insulting you by:-
1). A strong implication that you are his mental inferior, and that it would therefore be unsporting of him to engage you in reasoned argument, and
2). Lumping you in with those of us he refers to as morons.

What it really means is that we ask questions which he cannot answer without exposing his REAL motives, and so he resorts to the kind of ad hominem attack, and vituperation, which he commonly attributes to us half witted liberals.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:04 PM

"Shame on me! Shame on all of us for wasting our time trying to argue with you! Bigotry doesn't need reasons. It just IS"

Typically, another verse of "We are right.... you are wrong" from Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 05:50 PM

KB and Don....Some of my best friends here do not agree with me, but never stoop to replacing reason with invective.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 12:30 PM

"Morons."

Very good, Ake! Let me ask you this:   if people who don't agree with you are all morons, then why do you waste your precious time?

You, sir, have managed to achieve and entirely new low!

Shame on me! Shame on all of us for wasting our time trying to argue with you! Bigotry doesn't need reasons. It just IS.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 09:44 AM

hello KB thankyou for your' welcome it is nice to know i am not talking to myself!! although i do it loads but usually very mundane stuff. thankyou to all those who have welcomed me!!!

ake, why would you be shooting into a barrel by anwering my questions? i appreciate that you are not insulting me with silence and i understand is very hard to stand against the tide. i applaud that you have the courage to keep your' point of view.

i do not understand it and like i have said before i wish i could understand where you are coming from and why.

i think this is something we will never agree on, but it would be nice if you were seen to make an effort to see the other side.
like i said some honesty as to why this affects you so much that you take such a hard line on this, would make me able to at least stop the questions and badgering for answers.

on a different note my other halfs family is coming this weekend so wish me luck for the late night and very early morning!!!

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 09:18 AM

Morons, ake? That's kind of harsh.





Hi jeddy. I know you are here and have enjoyed your contributions (I know you weren't talking about me but still).

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 07:19 AM

Well Don, If you say if you say no significant effect either way, I will accept that....I never thought homosexual "marriage" would have a negative effect on homosexual promiscuity(can the current figures GET anymore negative?)

But now you must go and tell the rest of the "team", that homosexual "marriage" has no significant positive effect on homosexual promiscuity, as they have been wittering on about the positive effects for months, this news should come as something of a shock!

Jeddy my failure to respond to you is not meant as any kind of rejection or insult, I just have no great stomach for shooting fish in a barrel.
My friend Ebbie once warned me that going against the grain on Mudcat was "Hard...Hard I tell you!"......to which I responded that fending off the insults was easy.

Trying to reason with morons was Hard!!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: jeddy
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:53 AM

cheers don, i was beginning to wonder whether i made sense to myself but no one else!! lol i do that quite alot.

i am wondering AKE, if you want to put a time limit or a maximum on sexual partners for sraight couples to allow them to get married.

should athiests be allowed to get wed?

what about straight folks who have been together for more thasn say 5 years, if they don't get wed before that, they cannot?

i am confused as to your' logic, first the reasons were becuase of HIV/AIDS, and now it is the fact that there is a low number who get married when they are allowed.

PLEASE just admit that you don't like the idea of two people of the same sex, finding love and happiness in each other and stop with the pretence that you actually have valid reasons. it would be so much easier to respect you if you just admitted that is is something you cannot get over, rather thn trying to justify yourself.

personally, if someone is stupid enough not to use protection then they ultamatly canot then bitch when something happens to them, harsh but true i am afraid. i am not without compassion but in the end, ones sexual health is ones own responsability. APART FROM THE OBVIOUS SITUATION!!!

take care all

jade x x

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:24 AM

""Another reason for posting of course, was to nail the idea that homosexual "marriage" per se, can have any significant effect on the abysmal homosexual health and promiscuity figures.   Ake.""


NO SIGNIFICANT EFFECT! IN EITHER DIRECTION.

Any small effect there might be would, on the face of it, tend to militate against promiscuity.
So, no NEGATIVE effect.

OK, now tell us again. What is YOUR reason for wanting it banned?

Don T.


P.S. It got scrambled for some reason, so here's how it should read.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:21 AM

""Another reason for posting of course, was to nail the idea that homosexual "marriage" per se, can have any significant effect on the abysmal homosexual health and promiscuity figures.   Ake.""


NO SIGNIFICANT EFFECT! IN EITHER DIRECTION.
Any small effect there might be would, on the face of it, tend to militate against promiscuity.


OK, now tell us again. What is YOUR reason for wanting it banned?

Don T.




So, no NEGATIVE effect.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 06:09 AM

""like i have said before i may not be the most eloquent among us, but i have the right to be answered.""

It's nowt to do with you, or with your communicative abilities, Jade.

Some people simply ignore those to whose questions they have NO valid arguments.

I, like you, tend to get snide, sarcastic, brush-off comments from them, and when that happens, I know that I've either hit a nerve, or posted something they can't logically refute.

Don (not the least lathered up) T

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jun 09 - 03:06 AM

Tia....17th feb 1955 9:45am(just after breakfast)...a veritable bolt from the blue!