BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:53 PM

Here ya go my dear! bubblyrat's link

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:47 PM

bubblyrat, would you link to the story, please? I haven't been able to find it. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:41 PM

WOrld-renowned in her own mind, and impeccable in her tastes therein as well.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 06:10 PM

Yeah, as a "guest," it makes it easy to try to adopt different personae and develop what appears to be a whole horde of people who agree with you. Fairly transparent ploy, however.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Riginslinger
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 05:45 PM

like e. e. cummings...

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: TIA
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 05:26 PM

Don T. - Check out the amazing similarity in writing style between "Guest Curious Reader" and "Guest lansing". They share an aversion to capital letters, and an admiration for the exact same other Guest.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 05:22 PM

Curious similarity in writing style between Guest GfS, and Guest Curious Reader.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 02:34 PM

BR:

To be sensible about things you get wrought up about, select the correct target first. In this case, the idiocy was promulgated by meat-headed heterosexual social workers, most likely.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 02:30 PM

bubblyrat, that is not the fault of gays, it's a streak of idiocy in your "Social Sevices" bureau. Someone needs to bang some heads together.

How do the kids' grandparents feel about this? What are they doing about it?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: bubblyrat
Date: 29 Jan 09 - 02:12 PM

In some English newspapers today,is the report about the two children,a boy and a girl,who cannot live with their parents any more,because of their (the parents) health,addictions,age,and lifestyle . Fair enough ,so far. So ,the kids have said that,not unnaturally,they would like to live with their Grandparents,whom they love dearly,and who love them too,and who are,they say,teetotal non-smokers.
       So what have the local "Social Services" decided ?? Well !! ---they are going to be given up for adoption to a "couple" of Gay men !! The children are VERY UPSET about this,and have begged to be allowed to stay with Granny & Grandpa....but NO !! Gay people have a "Right" to adopt children,apparently,whether the children involved like it or not !! As a spokesperson for the children said--"What will happen when the girl reaches puberty ,and starts having periods,for God's sake ?? Is she going to confide in,and seek counsel from, a homosexual man ? What she needs is a MOTHER !!!" ( Un-quote).
          I never heard of anything so VILE, so DISGUSTING,in all my life !! What have we human beings come too ??? And some of you want Gay people to get "married ?? Shame on you !! Sorry, but that's my conviction and opinion,to which I am,I hope to God,entitled.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 10:34 PM

You know, curious reader, if you become a Mudcat member you can communicate directly with Guest from Sanity. Membership is easy - basically you just sign on, after you select a password and an email address. It is free, you never receive spam from it, and you will have options that guests don't get.

Hmmmmm. I just realized - Membership won't help you when it comes to communicating with GtS because he has never seen fit to reveal himself to that extent. Frankly, I suspect that he is afraid but that is neither here nor there; I imagine fear is a great inhibitor.

So.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 09:50 PM

That explains it.

What "GUEST,curious reader" wrote just above is totally inconsistent with what I know to be the feelings of gay people that I am acquainted with.

I find that I am able to discuss these matters with a couple of gay friends quite openly. One of these friends is a very good writer and a member of a writers' group that meets at our apartment on the second Sunday afternoon of every month. I presume he will be coming on Feb. 8th, so I will print off what "GUEST,curious reader" wrote, show it to him, and see what he says about it.

If this thread is still going by then, I'll report back.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 08:52 PM

Me, I'm waiting for GtS's response.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,curious reader
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 08:02 PM

at this time, its time to hear from me, and now us. i'm gay, and reading this with much interest. most of this stuff is baloney, by people who don't understand. the one that has caught my interest, is 'guest from sanity'. and i'd like to address this question to him/her. when i first came across this thread, i took little or no interest in it, but now, that the conversation has taken some most interesting turns, its time for me to speak up. first it was just me, then my partner, then a friend, and another, and another. this blog has gotten probably bigger than you all think. you've come at guest from sanity, and ake, with all you've got. and frankly, all the excuses that i've either heard, or used myself. to make it short, 'sanity', has shredded most all of it, now its time to ask you ('sanity')a question. some of your answers, we've printed, and even passed out, to other friends. the question is, you spoke of a deep hurt, which is true, you spoke of actually making the decision to have sex with another guy. that's true too. but you haven't offered a solution. at this point, you have all of our undivided attention. if you offer the solution, to the deep hurt, which i won't even give you a hint, as to what it is, then in all honesty, that could and change EVERYTHING. you all think that the 'christians' are bigoted, you should see my fellow gay friends, when one of us starts deciding to go straight! they become everything but gay. more like downright hateful and nasty. so, my curiousity goes to 'sanity'. here is is, if you hit it on the head, you are going to have a way more massive impact than any of you think. what is it? or is it just hot air. part of me wants you to be 'full of it' and another part wants to be free, and your answer is going to really matter. six of us are now engaged is some very sobering discussions, because of you. please answer this post thoughtfully, as your earlier posts, lead us to believe that you are sincere, knowledgeable, and caring. I know there are others on her, offering us the rap to plead our cause, but it is yours that has spoken to our hearts. what's it going to be?
sincerely, more than just us 6

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Riginslinger
Date: 28 Jan 09 - 10:33 AM

And for those folks who insist these kinds of suits will not take place, here it is!



Court: Christian school can expel lesbian students
         Buzz Up Send
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Digg Facebook Newsvine del.icio.us Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Yahoo! Bookmarks Print Tue Jan 27, 8:57 pm ETRIVERSIDE, Calif. – A California appeals court has ruled that a Christian high school can expel students because of an alleged lesbian relationship.

The 4th District Court of Appeal in Riverside on Monday upheld California Lutheran High School's right as a private, religious organization to exclude students based on sexual orientation.

Two girls sued claiming they were discriminated against after they were expelled from the Wildomar school in 2005. A lower court said the school isn't bound by the same anti-discrimination laws as a business establishment.

John McKay, attorney for California Lutheran, says the school's goal is to educate based on Christian principles.

The attorney for the girls could not be immediately reached Tuesday.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 12:26 PM

(snicker snicker)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 10:13 AM

GtS 1:33 By the way, I hope your lovely Barbara doesn't know about you hitting up on Amos, for a 'room away from home'...(wink)!


You changed your mind?

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:25 AM

Here, for all you of astute comprehension........

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 05:17 PM
Don:
That was (like almost all of yours) a great post.
Let's get a room.
:D
A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jan 09 - 03:19 AM

ohhh wa-a-a-a-

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 10:09 PM

. . . cellular fission. . . .

Nature is not a "one trick pony."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 07:00 PM

""I'll broach it. If all living creatures have these two things in common, the will to survive and reproduce, and your sexual organs are the 'normal' way of doing that,""

But not always with a member of the opposite sex, or do you believe hermaphrodite life forms are not also animals?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:49 PM

Hmmmm. I know Lis and she hates it when people get her name wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:42 PM

Lisdexia is hell!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:28 PM

"...merely IMITATING and putting on effeminate affectations."

Yep. That's me. :)

By the way, you chose an awkward moment to mention my lack of comprehension when you got going on Amos and Don. Just who do you guess appears to lack comprehension?

Too, too funny. lol

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 06:13 PM

Go back and do some re-reading, GfS. I don't know where you get "Amos and Donny, finally you come to the 'possibility' that homosexual co-habitation can be called by something else," 'cause neither of us said anything like that.

Also, you might double-check on who was hitting on whom. (blink)

Besides, Barbara just shut down her computer, turned around, and made what some might consider an "improper suggestion." Back later. . . .

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 02:14 PM

Sure, anytime...I'll share some other stuff I like, if you'd like...but I have to get going, right no...this minute(feet are tapping.....lOl)
GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 02:55 AM

Hi Guest...I've pretty varied taste in music, I'm a great believer in emotion in folk music.
At the moment it's Gillian Welch and David Rawlings, any old timey music, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Iris Dement, The Punch Bros, Martin Simpson, June Tabor.

I play guitar, not very well ....but I'm improving with age...just like Scotch Whisky.

Decided to play the clip you left before I posted, it was really beautiful....I thought TLS were a pop group!! Thanks!
Must download all their stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 01:50 AM

Here, for your enjoyment

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDEgB_ibhLw&feature=related

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 26 Jan 09 - 01:33 AM

Oh Dear Ebbie....sometimes...no, most all the time, I think you can't read, and comprehend at the same time. In my post, I was pointing out that a man CANNOT presume to even come near appreciating those sacred moments, in child bearing, by merely IMITATING and putting on effeminate affectations. You, of all people, are taking exception to that!!!!????!!!???
Amos and Donny, finally you come to the 'possibility' that homosexual co-habitation can be called by something else. At least you agree with President Obama, on that one! Now, that that is out of the way, maybe now, we can move to the greater subject...and that is equal rights and medical coverage for ALL Americans!...either co-habitating, or married!!
By the way, I hope your lovely Barbara doesn't know about you hitting up on Amos, for a 'room away from home'...(wink)!
Ake, What fucking instrument do you play..and what's your taste in music???

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 07:16 PM

I would love to sit and listen to Amos and Don Firth talk. Can't say the same about you, ake- at least not if you persist with your current squeeze. *g*

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 06:48 PM

LOL.....See you Amos,you're alright big man!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 06:17 PM

We'll put you two in a different wing, though, so we can sleep.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 05:48 PM

Oh I don't know Ebbie.....I think they deserve one another. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 05:34 PM

Don't forget to bring a deck of cards. (Most same-sex people "just aren't that much into each other.)

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 05:17 PM

Don:

That was (like almost all of yours) a great post.

Let's get a room.


:D


A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 04:56 PM

. . . someone acting out a denial of their own gender. . . ."

No, that's not the case with homosexuals, either gay men or Lesbian women. It is not a matter of "denying" their gender.

You have a very limited view of what a marriage is or should be, GfS. People marry for all kinds of reasons:   for the most part, couples don't get married just because they want to produce offspring. In fact, most people don't get married primarily because they want to have children. Sometimes children are planned, but more often than not, children happen. And sometimes inconveniently as far as the couple is concerned.

There are all kinds of reasons people get married, and those reasons depend on the wants and needs of the two individuals in the relationship and how those wants and needs interact. Although it may look like it to the non-discerning—most marriages look very much alike from the outside—no two marriages come out of the same cookie-cutter.

When Barbara and I got married, she was forty and I was forty-six. We talked about the possibility of children and then decided, for several reasons, not to have any. So there goes what some folks (apparently you as well) seem to regard as the only reason for getting married.

So why did we get married? Just for readily available sex? No. Barbara was and still is a very attractive woman, and I have had sufficient indications that I am not exactly unattractive to women ("stud muffin," I believe is the expression). We could have had about all the sex we want without getting married. No. We got married because of mutual attraction, yes, but also because of shared values and interests, and mutual admiration and respect. We are both complete individuals, capably of living perfectly contented solitary lives. We each with our own careers. We enjoy our individual activities and pursuits and we enjoy the many things we do together. Our marriage is a matter of synergy. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

We had our thirty-first anniversary this past December. Go ahead, do the math. Neither of us is a kid, and we've both seen a bit of the world.

In our wide circle of friends and acquaintances, we know a number of same-sex couples—couples who live together and are "out of the closet." One of these couples often joins us in our holiday get-togethers and dinners, and the other folks we celebrate with consider them to be just another couple.

We have civilized friends.

And I have described another same-sex couple above (CLICKY) who have adopted two children, pointing out that these two boys are certainly going to have a better life being raised by "Papa" and "Daddy" than they would have had if left where they were.

By the way, were you aware that the population pressure on Bali is so heavy that the government is encouraging same-sex relationships in hopes of cutting down their local population explosion? It isn't working, because people are simply not going to get into a same-sex relationship unless they are predisposed to do so!

No. All of the arguments advanced to support laws like Proposition 8, or misguided efforts to amend the Constitution (thereby displaying abysmal ignorance of what the Constitution is all about) in an effort to rigidly define "marriage" in a manner that limits the civil rights of a specific group of people fail on the grounds of ethics, morality, Constitutionality, and just plain good sense.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 04:38 PM

I have rarely seen such lack of empathy as you have shown on this thread- and now you presume to tell us that heterosexual men as opposed to homosexual men have a greater insight into childbirth, bonding and childcare? How would you know? Repeat: I have rarely seen such lack of empathy as you have shown on on this thread-

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 04:22 PM

You two should really get a room. Don't forget the birth-control.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 03:25 PM

Guest from Sanity...just looked back in and saw your post.
Amos is right it is impassioned, and much more,the best post on this thread by a mile...Thanks for sharing it!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 02:43 PM

Your impassioned explanation makes a bit more sense, now, thanks. And I appreciate your point about what women go through, and how it forms their hearts.

But the point is not about the dynamics of a good, standard marriage.

Like you, I don't care what you call it, although it seems pretty clear to me that marriage is a separate phenomenon from child-making, or at least that they often occur independently from each other. You have a strong belief in the nuclear family founded on the traditional form of marriage, and that is admirable, well and good, and actually, not something I disagree with. I would not wanted to have raised Barky without BBW. It might have turned out alright, I suppose, but who knows?

But the point about Proposition 8 is not about the nuclear heterosexual child-rearing pattern; it is about whether those who want to marry each other and form a life together, not geared to have children, should be less privileged in civil rights, as those whose lives cleave to the standard template.

If marriage MUST be a function of the reproductive institution, then a lot of heterosexual marriages should expire, no? There are DINKs of child-bearing ages who have no intention of reproducing. There are thousands of older couples, who are past menopause, or are impotent, or have grown indifferent to sexuality, who still have marriages. The term is not, legally or even culturally, bound only to the child-producing couple. Should it be? I don't care, and evidently you do not either.

Call them Type A, B and C marriages, if you want. But the point of this thread is that no law should be permitted under the Constitution that allows discrimination against a couple of the same gender as distinguished from a heterosexual couple in terms of legal rights and priveleges, including adoption, insurance, mutual inheritance, mutual legal representation, and so on.

If you cure THAT discrimination, which is solely based on bigotry, then I don't care what labels get laid down.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 02:21 PM

Not at all. You think my question was 'absurd'. I think that you're saying, a man can IMITATE a woman, by affectations of being effeminate, and be a 'wife, and/or mother'. To me, (and the majority of inhabitants of THIS planet), think that is absurd poppycock!! Do you think, a man, who can't even relate realistically to a woman, has any idea of what a woman goes through during childbirth, and hard labor??? Do you even have an idea, of the place a woman goes to, and experiences in those moments between hard contractions..and appreciate the wonderful beauty of what she is going through??? You think that merely going through the motions of being effeminate, is anything even close to that???? Nor will you accept that those two dynamics, upon getting together, to share their lives, and/or having children, and raising them, is altogether DIFFERENT than someone acting out a denial of their own gender, and through THAT inability, to accept the opposite sex, and bring something to them, that is an essential part of the union, that makes the two a whole!! Sorry, Charlie,..what I'm describing is a marriage, between a man, and a woman. What you are describing is two like gendered people who got together, for the reason of having sex. Those two things, are different in function, purpose and interaction. It has a different name. That name describes a definition. Homosexual co-habitation, is not the same in function, purpose and interaction. Marriage, and families, are the basic fabric of society. Homosexual co-habitation, is not!!! You are trying to say apples and oranges are the same thing, and it is YOU that is absolutely absurd. ..Along with the ability to experience childbirth, comes the psychological make up, and wiring, to both fully experience it, AND appreciate, and bond to that child, that a MAN IMITATING a woman's characteristics(and imitating marriage), can not achieve!! Just for that reason alone, should women be revered..and not be disregarded as merely a sex object, or the cute face of the day! Yes, homosexuality is a dysfunction....unless you are willing to accept, that a lesbian is a better man than you!!!
Marriage is marriage....homosexual co-habitation, is something else..call it what you will, but marriage it is NOT!!!
Perhaps, it is you that is unsure of YOUR role, or perhaps you've abdicated YOUR role, or never fully assumed it, that leaves you in the dark.....which must be apparent to your wives, for either the appreciation, or exploitation. Still, try to tell your wives that a man can be a better wive/mother,...you think I'M absurd??? ..you'd be chopped meat!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:58 PM

I think it's just fevered, but hollow, rhetoric.



A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:54 PM

So who's a chicken and why?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:37 PM

Chicken!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:35 PM

"Go convince your wives, preferably those who you have had children, that a Homosexual man that you know, claims to have more maternal instincts than she has, and can do a better job at nurturing your kids..."

GfS, that's just plain silly!   I have never heard a homosexual man make that kind of claim, nor would I ever expect to hear anything like that. What Amos just said is right.

I don't know where you come up with this sort of stuff. It certainly isn't from anything in the real world. Maybe you need to get out a bit more.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 06:18 AM

That an absurd argument. Maternal instincts? What the hell?

I have known gay men who had plenty of maternal instincts, and Ihave known gay men who have an absolute disdain for children.

Come to think, I have known straight people with equal extremes.

They also (both sets) have other talents and instincts widely distributed. It is absolutely amazing how much difference is encoded in one hundredth of a per cent of a genome.

This has nothing at all, though, to do with the legal question of Prop 8 and its unconstitutionality.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 02:06 AM

Try this, okay...Go convince your wives, preferably those who you have had children, that a Homosexual man that you know, claims to have more maternal instincts than she has, and can do a better job at nurturing your kids...then have her explain, as to the 'why's', her answer....., listen carefully, Then argue that point, to her, as vehemently as you argue on here.....see what she says....or what happens.
Report back at once....if she'll let you

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:33 AM

GfS, anyone who doesn't understand that there are some differences in the way men and women think just hasn't been around very long, or hasn't been paying attention. But—that does have a lot to do with physiology and hormones and such. Along with, as Amos says, certain cultural factors.

####

Fascinating debating tactics. "Homosexuality isn't natural!" says one of our resident homophobes. "How do I know? Animals don't do it!"

So he/she is presented with overwhelming evidence that animals do do it!

Then the resident homophobe says, "But they're just animals and we're human! We're supposed to be better than that!!"

You can't have it both ways.

(Just checking in before I shut off my computer. Past my bedtime. G'nite.)

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage Ban
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 01:19 AM

In your post you said "even bio-functional roles and identities." Now just what do you think that means??? "Bio-functional roles"?
I hope in researching the question, a light goes on!!

Subject: RE: BS: Californians Oppose 'Prop 8' Gay Marriage
From: Amos
Date: 25 Jan 09 - 12:36 AM

Well, don't iunderestimate the impact of "Mars and Venus" discussions which have been going on for years now. Back in the 50's this was called the War between the Sexes; now, it is more like the "Introspective Negotiation Between the Sexes". :}

The differences may be wired, or they may be a byproduct of the self-selected belief systems based on culurally-imnposed roles and identities, or even bio-functional roles and identities.


A