BS: The Alternative Facts Thread

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 09:11 AM

Here's the fruit of another set of Trump & Co's lies....excuse me, "alternative facts":


Islamophobia grows louder in North Carolina: 'Can we not kill them all?'

Thursday 23 February 2017

Tom Jones, a soft-spoken man with white hair and wearing a slate-gray jacket, held up a copy of The Terrorist Next Door by the conservative author Erick Stakelbeck in the private dining room of a seafood restaurant in Kernersville, North Carolina, on a recent Thursday evening.

Those present laid out a scenario based on false representations of Islam and tangled conspiracy theories suggesting mainstream Muslims were stealthily plotting to kill non-believers.

Jones's presentation was repeatedly interrupted by comments about killing Muslims from Frank del Valle, a staunchly anticommunist Cuban immigrant, with little or no pushback from the others in the room. "Can we not kill them all?" Del Valle asked, about 15 minutes into the presentation

Near the end of the presentation, Del Valle asked Jones: "Do you have any recommendations as to how we could stop this? Because my only recommendation is to start killing the hell out of them."


https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/23/north-carolina-islamophobia-muslims-threats?

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 23 Feb 17 - 03:30 AM

Jim, I was simply offering some advice, VN has insulted me on several occasions, without response.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 09:00 PM

Thought the problem was that they didn't trust him.

With his history, they'd be crazy if they DID trust him.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 07:32 PM

"Vashta...try to concentrate"
THought you didn't approve of insulting people - or is that only for the rest of us?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 07:04 PM

Thought the problem was that they didn't trust him.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 06:34 PM

Pity that your man Donald doesn't trust 'em then, innit! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 05:58 PM

I would suggest that when it comes to lists of countries that may pose any sort of threat to the USA, Allies of the USA and countries that are of significant interest (economic, military or political) to the USA, then the Intelligence and Security Agencies of the United States of America have been continually compiling and updating those lists since the end of the Second World War.

After 9/11 those same agencies and the Security Committee of Congress were asked separately and independently to come up with candidate "rogue states" - they did - both lists were identical with Iraq coming top of both lists. Those lists I dare say have been continually updated as the situation is constantly under review and analysis - that after all is their job.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Raggytash
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 12:20 PM

Ake,Obama had not been in for almost 10 years, a Presidential term is 4 years, he served 2 terms a maximum of 8 years. The measures he introduced were in early 2015. Two years ago, thus 6 years into his term.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 11:33 AM

Akenaton, do try to get it into your skull that what Obama did bears no relation or comparison to what Trump tried to do. I have explained this once today and pointed out that is easy enough to get the facts. Of course, if you suspect that the facts won't suit whatever case you're trying to make, you won't let them get in your way, will you? Now why don't you just toddle off and look it up before coming here with your seemingly never-ending inanities?

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 11:27 AM

"of course everything the man does will be "inappropriate" according to the sore losers."

You can't discuss anything with someone who posts sentences like this. Can we stick to the point of the thread? Please. I beg of thee.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 11:23 AM

You know as well as I do that this hysteria is based on spite...

Same old lie, Eh Ake?

First off, the opposition to Trump is hardly "hysteria" on the part of a majority of the electirate.

Secondly this opposition has nothing to do with "spite" or "being sore losers": it has to do with the documented facts that Trump is a racist, a misogynist, an un-convicted perpertator of multiple sexual assaults, a serial and compulsive liar, a cheat, the perpetrator of various scams and ponzi schemes, possibly if not peobably mentally unbalanced and an all around, obnoxious piece of dirt entirely unfit to be President of the United States.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 10:54 AM

Vashta...try to concentrate....the point under discussion was made by David and continued by the usuals. Why did President Trump not put a temporary ban on Saudi Arabia.

As the incoming President, President Trump wished to formulate a new policy on immigration from countries of concern regarding terrorism(mooted by President Obama), it was to be a temporary ban until his administration had got up to speed. president Obama had been in office almost ten years when he announced his list.

I think President Trump did exactly the right thing.....of course everything the man does will be "inappropriate" according to the sore losers.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 10:38 AM

Trump cannot use part of that policy and ignore the rest

Of course he can - and DOES- being the deranged toddler that he is.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Vashta Nerada
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 10:34 AM

If Obama considered it inappropriate to ban all comers from a nation such as Saudi Arabia because the nation did not support the citizens who hijacked planes on Sept. 11, 2001, and considered it inappropriate to use a religious test to allow immigration or refugees in, and in fact put no bans of any sort in place, then Trump cannot use part of that policy and ignore the rest and suggest he is modeling his BAN on Obama's decisions.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 10:06 AM

We will have a massive deportation force but we will not have a massive deportation. Only the criminals.
DT Nov. 2016.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 09:24 AM

I do not wear sandals...

You probably do - but with socks.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 05:52 AM

AAAARGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 05:30 AM

No need stevie. I do not wear sandals, so my take on events differs from yours.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 04:28 AM

Only in my opinion? Take your blinkers off and look it up, Iains.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 04:23 AM

"One issue at a time Jim, I do not support everything President Trump proposes"
You are doing nothing but blindly supporting the man, whatever he does - you refuse to respond to a single example of his dishonesty and his contempt for democracy, the institutions of law, women, foreigners.... or anybody who happens to get in his way
Your devotion verges on deification.
His behaviour is not unlike the behaviour of dictators who have come before him and in the case of the one you mentioned, his use of populist support is uncannily similar
"This would likely explain why Obama did not put Saudi on the list"
Did Obama have a list - must have missed that one?
No arrogantly presented plagerised pearls of wisdom this morning Iains?
How disappointing!!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 04:03 AM

To try to make that comparison, or claim that Obama set the precedent, is nothing more than mischievous. only in your opinion Shaw, and you know how many of us rank that.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 03:54 AM

Obama responded to a perceived specific threat after two Iraqi refugees were arrested in Kentucky. The order enhancing vetting was issued only after consultation and agreement with several agencies. It related to one country only. He did not ban the entry of nationals from any specified countries. All this is easily checked online but, of course, stories that get degraded and embellished in the transmission enjoy meretricious attractiveness. There is simply no comparison with Obama's actions in 2011 and Trump's executive order. To try to make that comparison, or claim that Obama set the precedent, is nothing more than mischievous.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 03:42 AM

One issue at a time Jim, I do not support everything President Trump proposes.....I am simply pointing out the hysteria which alleges that he is another Hitler, a Fascist etc.

You know as well as I do that this hysteria is based on spite and all that concerns these people and the young folks they have "educated" is the rejection of their mythical agenda.

Its the Emperors clothes all over again and people like President Trump and Mr Farage are the little boys crying....Look...Look! "They're naked...naked as the day that they were born"

With apologies to Danny Kaye.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Iains
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 03:41 AM

America still imports around 25% of its oil. The top five source countries of U.S. petroleum imports in 2015 were Canada, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Mexico, and Colombia. This would likely explain why Obama did not put Saudi on the list.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 03:28 AM

"The countries named and subject to the temporary ban were not selected by the President on a whim."
Yes they were
This man consults no-one, he holds no meetings to decide what he intends to do - he is an arrogant psychopath, and god help anybody who gets in his way.
He got his orders from the "SO-called security forces" - you have to be joking!!
Ho long are you you going to defend this dictator without actually addressing his actions Ake - have you no respect for the future of this planet?
We are been experiencing Trumpism for some time now.
A few years ago he purchased Greg Norman's Golf Club a few miles down from the coast here in Doonbeg.
The Club has been in dispute with local people for decades; it has been attempting to make an are of the coast a private beach for its hotel guests by blocking access to locals.
Trump bought the club and continued the warfare, but an uneasy peace was reached eventually on that issue.
Now he has opened the war on another front by proposing a rocky barrier in the sea to protects two of the course's holes - a project that would effect villages adversely either side of the club - he is holding his own employees jobs as hostage
Trump's backhanded business techniques have put his son in charge of the dirty tricks - the Trump Mafia have another branch in The West of Ireland.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 02:36 AM

Acme, the point being made by David and others was that President Trump was personally at fault for not including Saudi Arabia in the temporary hold, when in fact the omission was made by President Obama in the first instance.
Why was Saudi Arabia omitted?...... Political reasons? Perhaps the country was not regarded as "dangerous" due to the small number of immigrants from there, or the very severe regime in charge?

Perhaps you would have been better to have questioned President Obama at the time?

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 01:46 AM

Psychopathic narcissist, Donuel?

Yeah, I think that's a pretty accurate diagnosis. The guy scares me.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 22 Feb 17 - 01:26 AM

Wonder how long this will go on, probably for the whole term is my guess. The harm being done to the Office of President of the United States of America by both sides is immense, and every single successor will have to live with it as you strive to set the bar lower and lower.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:46 PM

Some time ago I diagnosed Trump as a psychopathic narcissist.

Some chose not to believe.
Well the President of Psychiatry at Harvard concurs as seen on The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:13 PM

President Trump put an unreasonable impediment on immigrants and travelers and tried to suggest he was just following Obama's lead - which is nonsense. The few restrictions in place during the Obama administration were well considered and deftly played, and had nothing to do with the blanket ban Trump was attempting. Your mildly-toned query suggesting Trump was just being as presidential or thoughtful as Obama is dismissed with prejudice.

Subject: RE: BS: DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 08:21 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/20/europe/russia-un-ambassador-vitaly-churkin-dead/

A diplomat for Russia for decades will have nothing to say anymore.

Trumps Presidential order 15 makes it legal for Oil Companies to not disclose foreign deals.

Two more convicted criminals have come to light regarding the lifting of sanctions for oil $

Both are long time associates of Trump.

Maxine Waters of Congress calls these guys as well as our Secretary of State Tillerman, scum bags.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 05:47 PM

AKE - irrelevant.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 05:46 PM

The countries named and subject to the temporary ban were not selected by the President on a whim. The countries named would have come from US Government Security Agencies and the US Department of State.

"The 911 terrorists were almost all from Saudi Arabia."

What on earth has that got to do with anything? Where were they recruited? Where were they trained? Who selected them? Who were Osama bin Laden's first choice candidates and where did they come from? Needs must when the devil drives applies to terrorist organisations just as much as any other venture working to a timetable and Al-Qaeda on 9/11 were about 12 months behind schedule.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 05:30 PM

David....Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe President Trump put a temporary hold on immigrants from the seven countries picked out by President Obama as areas of concern regarding terrorism.

Saudi Arabia was not mentioned by President Obama in his list?

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 04:40 PM

Seing the bar as a response to a terrist threat doesn't make much sense. There have been no terrorist incidents in the US involving anyone from the countries Trump picked to put the bar on. The 911 terrorists were almost all from Saudi Arabia.

Today there is a story about a young teacher from Wales accompanying a school party to the USA, who yesterday was pulled off an airliner on its way to the States, by US Security., at Reykjavik. No connection with any of the places Trump had tried to bar, but his family was from Bangla Desh, and he is Muslim, which was evidently enough.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 02:51 PM

20,000 to 40,000 new jobs may be available as ICE doubles or triples its workforce. Age is not a problem, they will take students as long as they will work full time for the administration and old people can become special informer agents. There is discussion that the largest investigative agency ICE under DHS will expand their public relations with public events like parades and marches to delight children and parents alike with patriotic martial music. To show solidarity with ICE the public is encouraged to wear armbands and show the ICE salute.
The salute is a upwards thumbs up, like a get outta here gesture. The exclamation of Thank Trump is optional at this time.

If you are a legal citizen and have a warm body you have a job with ICE.

https://www.usajobs.gov/JobSearch/Search/RSSFeed/111525

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 02:18 PM

The Anne Frank Centre US has issued a statement on the anti-semitism of the current administration:

@realDonaldTrump do not make us Jews settle for crumbs of condescension.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 02:17 PM

What the Pope says Kevin is perfectly true. But that does not mean that when presented with a perceived threat you do not take steps to introduce measures to protect yourself.

There was no blanket ban on immigration proposed - what was proposed was a 90 - 120 day moratorium on processing visa applications until procedures could be reviewed.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 02:04 PM

I appreciate the Pope's efforts, Kevin, but speaking truth to idiots is at best a losing proposition.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 01:56 PM

Pope Francis got it right in a letter he sent to campaigners in the USA a few days ago:

"I feel is important to say it again: no people is criminal and no religion is terrorist. Christian terrorism does not exist, Jewish terrorism does not exist, and Muslim terrorism does not exist. They do not exist. No people is criminal or drug-trafficking or violent.

"The poor and the poorer peoples are accused of violence yet, without equal opportunities, the different forms of aggression and conflict will find a fertile terrain for growth and will eventually explode." There are fundamentalist and violent individuals in all peoples and religions—and with intolerant generalizations they become stronger because they feed on hate and xenophobia."

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 01:36 PM

"Career move" of course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 01:35 PM

"he is right to be very careful about who is entering your country."
Trumps ban on Muslim countries has noting to do with security, otherwise he would have included Saudi Arabia on the list - that was the source of the finance for 9/11 and the majority of the participants.
He is playint to the crowds and it is an extremely dangerous game he is playing.
The world in not at risk because of Islamic Fundamentalist Terror - it is at risk if the problem of fundamentalism is not handled properly
The West's inaction of the Assad massacres, it's failure to assist ordinary Arabs to win better conditions for themselves through Arab Spring and our permanent lust for cheap oil, managed to turn a small, virtually unknown sect of religious nutters into a major threat - it would have no influence if we had played our cards like human beings rather than post Empire predators.
We let the Genii out of the bottle.
The greatest threat to our future now lies in the fact that The Wanker in the White House is treating Isis as a carrier move by pretending that he alone stands between Isis and annihilation.
If anything, he is a damn sight more dangerous than Isis if he is allowed to continue with his thuggery
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 12:23 PM

The point is that President Trump is not lying

The point is thet Trump liea each and every time he opens his mouth. Kinda like Dick Nixon on steroids and meth.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:56 AM

At a press conference a man was chosen by Trup to ask a question. The journalist wore a Yakima and had short facial hair, he asked " I have a simple question. With the 46 bomb threats to Synagogues and cemeteries in the US recently will you admonish these acts of anti-Semitism ?
Trump; "That is not a simple question, you did not ask a simple question. You are a liar. Sit down."


WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

The journalist was being a straight man for Trump to hit a home run but instead Tromp made white nationalist Jew haters proud.

To hate all but the right folks is as American as apple pie but the Trump answer is permission to hate and unambiguous.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:47 AM

Take it elsewhere Ake, you understand the premise of the thread and if you don't agree that's your prerogative, but this thread is about Trump et al and their alternative truths.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:41 AM

Greg,
Who exactly are "They"?? Whoever they are, they're WRONG - he excused his lie by refering to a fake news story that was on Fox "News"[sic].

I made clear I was referring to Trump's people.
They say he was referring to a documentary about Sweden's problem's with some immigrants which was on Fox News.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:37 AM

Ake you have a point, and if there is a country from which terrorists have come who have killed a few thousand of your citizens, then you want to be pretty careful about letting people in from there. But that one isn't on the list is it?

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: akenaton
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:30 AM

The point is that President Trump is not lying, he is right to be very careful about who is entering your country....The West have yet to take this issue seriously......The Russians have done so and cleared the terrorists out of most of Syria.....but in reality no one is safe.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Stu
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 11:24 AM

"The real fact is that the whole world is under attack from Islamic Fundamentalist terror."

Then go and start a thread on it. This one is for recording Trump's lies.

Subject: RE: BS: The Alternative Facts Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 21 Feb 17 - 10:34 AM

the whole world is under attack from Islamic Fundamentalist terror

LIE. Ooops --- I meant "Alternative Fact".