BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Lanfranc
Date: 21 Jan 09 - 07:35 PM

Cain slew Abel Seth knew not why
For if the children of Israel were to multiply
Why must any of the children die?
So he asked the Lord
And the Lord said:

"Man means nothing he means less to me
Than the lowliest cactus flower
Or the humblest yucca tree
He chases round this desert
'Cause he thinks that's where I'll be
That's why I love mankind"

Randy Newman's "God's Song"

If only they could take God out of the equation...

How ironic that two faiths whose greeting is "Peace be with you" seem incapable of co-existence. The Muslims managed to live peacefully alongside Jews and Christians in Spain during their rule there, and someone will have to find a way to achieve it in Palestine, and sooner rather than later.

There is stupidity and cruelty on both sides of this conflict, but the parallels between the recent conduct and consequent excuses of the Israelis and those of Hitler's Germany are stark.

A British Jewish MP, Gerald Kaufman, has something to say that is worth listening to - see BBC Parliament broadcast

I despair of either side ever coming to their senses.

Alan

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 04:31 PM

You do not determine "righteousness" by lieing about the people killed, either.

Very true indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 04:09 PM

But God is on our side, ain't He???

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 11:05 AM

The United Nations Relief Agency has suspended all humanitarian relief operations in Gaza after one of its aid convoys was strafed and an UNRA worker killed by Israeli fire.
This on top of UN schools and facilites attacked and wrecked by the invading Israeli military.
An UNRA spokesman said earlier today that aid work will only resume after Israel gives full assurances that it will not attack UNRA or its workers.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 10:53 AM

You do not determine "righteousness" by lieing about the people killed, either.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 10:44 AM

"You do not determine "righteousness" by counting the number of casualties!!!"

"You do not determine "righteousness" by counting the number of casualties!!!"

"You do not determine "righteousness" by counting the number of casualties!!!"


Ok....I give up. You will continue to count, anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 10:38 AM

"From the reports I have seen across the networks the majority seem to be women and children."

Then the networks are telling you a lie, since the UN, using the PALESTINIAN statistics, says otherwise.





"Israel has so far lost about 11 people killed the majority are soldiers killed during the invasion some by friendly fire."

True- but the "majority" of Gazans killed have been Hamas militants or other combatants- 30% OF BOTH SIDES casualties have been civilians.



"Nearly a third of the deaths -- 30 percent -- are women and children, according to the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, citing statistics released Tuesday by the Palestinian Ministry of Health."

Seven Israeli soldiers and three civilians have been killed since the operation began, the Israeli military reported"

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 10:31 AM

To BeardedBruce

Some 600 plus Palestinians have been killed so far in the bombibg and shelling.From the reports I have seen across the networks the majority seem to be women and children.There are some ghastly,horrific, photographs of slaughtered   children on numerous websites so obviously the Israeli war secret is out and across the world.

Around 3000 people have been seriously wounded or maimed .The morgues and hospitals are overflowing.

Israel stands accused of breaking international laws against the collective punishment of civilians.Its reputation is plunging.

Israel has so far lost about 11 people killed the majority are soldiers killed during the invasion some by friendly fire.

Gaza is a city of one and a half million people ..you obviously know about the power plants,roads clinics , university,bridges ,schools,sewage plants apartment blocks and market that have been destroyed by artillery shells or missiles.

It is a sick joke to claim ,as some do, that this is a battle between Israel and Hamas.This is an all out war waged against the Palestinian people of Gaza.

Most Gazans are eiher refugees directly from what is now Israel or the children or grandchildren of refugees.Some have seen their homes blown up several times over by the Israelis [most of whom were either born outside Israel or are the children or grandchildren of settlers who were born outside Israel ].

On saturday there will be a demonstration in support of Gaza and the Palestinians in central London.It will be massive. There are anti war people in Israel who are speaking out in the face of much intimidation by the pro war zionists and I greatly admire their courage in going up against the pro war murder lobby.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 10:25 AM

"Mommy! He hit me BACK harder than I hit him!"

Cynical? Me?....naawwwwwww

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardebruce
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 09:41 AM

"Nearly a third of the deaths -- 30 percent -- are women and children, according to the U.N. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs, citing statistics released Tuesday by the Palestinian Ministry of Health."

Seven Israeli soldiers and three civilians have been killed since the operation began, the Israeli military reported"


So, the Gazans have killed 30% civilians? Sounds like they have to be deliberatly targeting them, since when Israeli forces kill 30% civilians it is proof that they are....

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 08:48 AM

Me thinks that Israel is in the midst of winning every battle but in a real danger of loosing this war...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 08 Jan 09 - 04:50 AM

The intended attack on the houses at Rafeh was quoted by avery concerned BBC correspondent on the Gaza /Rafeh border last night.
The BBC reporter whose house was blown up, informed his colleagues outside Gaza about his house and the leaflets and the intention to attack the neighbourhood today.
Furthermore, a charity worker for Care International was also killed along with his son yesterday when their house was blown up by an Israeli shell.This was reported by the charity and printed in the Guardian.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 05:19 PM

So farr ten IDF personnel have been killed in this invasion. Four of these were killed by Israeli weaponry meticulously targetted at Hamas militants...

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 05:06 PM

I could suggest a new definition/example of ∞ (that's an infinity symbol for those who can't see it)

My mother used to quote a Cajun neighbor lady in New Orleans.."Iffn somebody does me somethin', I'll stay up all night thinkin' of somethin' to do 'em back!"

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 04:03 PM

Perhaps you could suggest a method by which the military targets hiding in heavily populated areas, hiding behind civilians, can be destroyed without hitting some civilians?   


Or are IDF forces supposed to die from morter attacks, without firing back, until the "right" number of them have been killed to be fair? And how many would that be?

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 03:58 PM

" Except that those rockets are so inaccurate that wouldn't work. Which is why they are so much less effective at killing people than the IDF's weaponry."


Which is why, as terrorist weapons aimed at civilians they are outlawed by civilized nations. They serve no military purpose, and are only used for terror. Strictly forbidden by the Geneva conventions.




"Rocket fire has fallen off somewhat as Israeli troops tighten their hold on Gaza, taking over open areas used to launch rockets, but Gaza residents say militants are still launching from heavily populated areas. "

Also a violation, to use heavily populated areas.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 03:15 PM

Perhaps you could suggest a method by which leaflets about incoming rockets could be delivered, bruce.   By a preliminary rocket perhaps? Except that those rockets are so inaccurate that wouldn't work. Which is why they are so much less effective at killing people than the IDF's weaponry.

Even during the ceasefire more Palestinians were killed by Israeli attacks than Israelis were killed by Hamas rockets.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: beardedbruce
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 03:01 PM

ifor,

The raffah crossing point- into Egypt, where the tunnels are?

Are you claiming that the tunnels that Hamas uses to bring in rockets and explosives are "civilian targets"?


Show me the leaflets that Hamas has dropped on Israel warning where their rockets were going to hit, please.

If not, your comments are not worth the effort of reading.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 02:53 PM

The BBC s Gaza correspondent who lives near the Raffeh crossing point has learnt that his house along with several others has been destroyed by Israeli bombs or shells.
Even more alarmingly the Israeli have dropped thousands of leafletts in that area of southern Gaza ordering the residents out of their homes by tomorrow because they are to be attacked by the Israeli military.
Israel has used a wide range of deadly weapons including tank shells,one tonne bombs and white phospherous against civilian targets and there is speculation that it may be considering using a giant thermobaric bomb against the Raffeh neighbourhood.
Israel seems to be going for broke with its war crimes against the people of Gaza with several hundred children killed and many others maimed and mutilated through rocket,bomb and artillery attacks by the Israeli Defence Force.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:34 AM

Still waiting.



http://www.adl.org/terrorism/listofattacks.asp

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 08:31 AM

NOTE THE DATE!

Israel allowing rocket attacks on Jews?
Olmert restricts military from stopping missile onslaughts

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: December 04, 2006
11:55 am Eastern


By Aaron Klein
© 2009 WorldNetDaily.com


JERUSALEM – The Israeli Defense Forces has been instructed by the government here not to open fire or take any action against militants who are discovered launching rockets into the Jewish state, senior military officials told WND today.

The officials said Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's security cabinet changed the IDF's rules of engagement after a cease-fire went into effect Nov. 26. Now, if Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are caught launching rockets at Jewish cities, the Israeli military is forbidden to respond, the military officials said.

Previously, the IDF used artillery units and aerial strikes against militants discovered in the process of launching rockets.

Since the truce was agreed to last week, about 20 rockets have been launched from Gaza into Jewish cities nearby.

IDF sources told WND the Israeli army several times the past few days identified militants about to launch rockets into Israel, but due to changed rules of engagement in response to the cease-fire, IDF forces were prohibited from taking out the rocket crews. For example, hours after the cease-fire was imposed, IDF units spotted seven Palestinians in Gaza setting up rocket launchers. Three rockets were then fired into Israel.

"There is nothing we can do about the rocket attacks. It's only a matter of time before an Israeli is killed," said an IDF official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to media.

Olmert today told the Knesset his government would react with restraint to continuing Qassam attacks, saying Israel was hoping to give the cease-fire a chance to develop into further steps toward what he called a "peace process."

"We will fully explore every possibility that can lead to momentum to begin a diplomatic process, and so we are now giving the truce a chance," Olmert told the Knesset parliament's Foreign Affairs and Defense Committee.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=53219



How long were they SUPPOSED to wait for the rockets to stop?

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 07:48 AM

Have you noticed how this dreadful carnage going on in Gaza and Israel has put MUGABE on the back pages. Lucky him!!
Also, unless I am mistaken, I do not hear the voice of China and other far Asian nations expressing their desire to see a cessation.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 07:34 AM

If you want the support of the United Nations, most of the world, and the Western media, the formula is quite simple. All you have to do is as follows:

1. Start by having a founding document that has as its central purpose the perpetration of genocide.

2. Then attack your neighboring country by firing rockets at the civilian population, in violation of international law.

3. Hide your rockets and other terrorist equipment in homes and other location where there are many civilians, to maximize the death and injury count when lawful and necessary defensive measures are taken to neutralize your illegal activity, another violation of international law. When your own people are thus murdered by your own acts, you can use it for propaganda purposes.

You can be sure the Western media will run as many pictures of the dead and injured (for which you are responsible) in a fashion designed to generate sympathy for your position, and that same Western media will be largely uninterested in the civilian casualties caused in the neighboring country by your terrorism.

4. Exaggerate and lie at every opportunity to inflate the number of civilian casualties in your own land (for which you are responsible by hiding military facilities in civilian locations). That's for the benefit of the Western media, which will of course publish and eat up any exaggeration or fabrication you care to pass along. Even if you have a long history of exaggerating and lying on such matters as civilian casualties, the Western media will continue to take your claims at face value.

5. When your neighbor responds to your illegal, genocidal attacks, appeal to the U.N. and world opinion for a cease-fire so you can rearm and get ready to slaughter and murder civilians in new ways and with greater ferocity, as soon as you want to end the cease-fire.

6. Instead of building your own economy and helping your own people, put all your resources into terrorist attacks against your neighbor and divert the humanitarian aid that flows into your land to your own program for genocide, aggression and terror.

7. When your economy turns sour — which it will do inevitably because your first priority is war and terror and not nation building, which is your last priority — and when it is further damaged by the measures of self-defense taken by your neighbor, claim there is a "humanitarian crisis" and a cease fire and more aid is urgently required.

8. Continue your endless attempts to slaughter and butcher civilians, including those of your neighbor and even those of your own people for propaganda purposes, and then claim any self-defense measures taken by your neighbor are "disproportionate."

9. Continue to violate every international law on the books, making a mockery not only of law but also of the most basic precepts of humanity and civilization, and then claim your neighbor, who is compelled to act in self-defense, is committing "war crimes."

By now, I'm sure you know this memo was a precise description of Hamas and its genocidal campaign against Israel, and the reaction of the United Nations, of much of world opinion and of the nations of the world, and of the Western media. To say what is happening is outrageous is a gross understatement, and stronger terms must be resorted to, such as an outbreak of international insanity. The world and the media seem to be on the side of genocide and terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 07 Jan 09 - 03:59 AM

Simon Assaf has an excellent article in this week's Socialist Worker [UK ]explaining Israel's recent terror tactics against Palestine.It can be read online.
He shows how time and time again Israel broke the recent ceasefire and rejected proposals from the Palestinians for a more lasting settlement.
The siege of Gaza even before the air attack and ground invasion meant terrible suffering for its poulation with power stations destroyed,food in scarce supply [some families reduced to eating grass ] manutrition,physchological damage ,water shortages and raw sewage in the street from collapsed pipes and damaged pumping stations.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 09:56 PM

I sure do miss scenes like this.

Sadat learned to be practical & reasonable.... look what it got him.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:47 PM

I wanta tell a little story here...

I was in the 8th grade and like 14 years old... Clarkie Crumbar was 17 and still in the 8th grade... In English class Clarkie Crumbar sucker puched me and blood went all over...

Ya' see, Clarkie Crumbar was 3 years older than any kid in the school and so he was the top bully...

So two weeks after he hit me I decided that ity was my turn so right there in gym class, where I figured that the gym tewachers would bust up a fight, I walked up to Clarkie and hit him as hard as I could in his face...

Well, he beat the crud outta me before the gym taechers could get him off me but guess what???

From then on I had the respect of the entire school, from teachers on down...

I am afraid that Israel has become the Clarkie Crumbar on the world's stage... Yeah, it can beat up folks but is that really serving it's interests???

I think not...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 08:00 PM

Well, heather...

Be that fact or fiction doesn't much matter 'cause Israel has all but lost the PR war here and Hamas is infinately stronger and better supported than before this...

Like I said, "stupid people"...

Israel clearly doesn't get it and will pay a price for what they are doing...

Stupid people...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 06:40 PM

Israel is a deeply racist state.Not only does it almost permanently attack the Palestinian refugees in all kinds of ways it is also discriminatory to those they call "Israeli arabs"who are Palestinians who live "legally" [and i use that in a guarded way ] in Israel.These Palestinian citizens make up 20 percent of the population but are kept in line by the Israeli state.

Moreover, the pre zionist Jewish community in Israel is also looked on in disfavour by those running the state who are often far more recent migrants [or the sons of migrants ] to Israel.

It must be very galling and indeed humiliating for a Palestinian grandad to be told to get out of his farm which his family have worked for generations , by some jumped up thug with an uzi who was born and raised in New York.

On the West Bank where tonight an Israeli spokesman claimed the Palestinians were being treated fairly we have seen Palestinians assassinated without warning by secret death squads. We have heard about Palestinian teenagers shot dead by rubber coated steel bullets.We have seen Palestinian villagers attacked in their homes by armed Israeli settlers while troops look on doing next to nothing. We have seen protestors against the Apartheid Wall being brutally beaten or attacked with staves and tear gas. We have see the Palestinian population of Hebron terrorised by armed thugs and so on.All this on the supposedly moderate West Bank.

However, even these awful crimes pale in comparison to the mass murder being committed in Gaza as a deliberate act of terror by the Israeli state.

The UN representatives are quite right to call for an INDEPENDENT investigation   into the killing of so many babies,children and civilians in the killing zone of Gaza.
ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 06:33 PM

Hey, folks lets get real here on what is happening and what ain't...

Are any of you folks watchin' what ahppens when when of these Iranian built rockets land in Israel??? Well, I'd ussgest you look at the TV pictures... Nor much at all happens... Might of fact, so little happens that the Israeli's are able to collect them and show them off...

Hmmmmmmmmm???

I mean, these things are like somethin; from the 1800's... Sure, if you got hits by one that wouldn't be all that good but they don't knock sown buildings and they don't kill many folks at all...

That is reality...

Should Hamas shoot off these primitive things??? Well, heck no they shouldn't...

Now faat forward to the TV pictures of entire building bombed to the ground in Gaza... Now that, my friens, is fire power... No junior high school kids science experiement here...

And what is the current score??? Israel 650 Hamas 8???

This is the real story so now for:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

                         The Conclusion

Israel has over reacted and it is costing Israel dearly in a PR campaign that Hamas seems now to be winning... Israel'sa ctions ahve made it neither more safe or more trusted around the world... Hamas has played Israel like dupes and Israel is acting like dupes... This will bnot help Israel in the long run but is a major setback for Israel and jews throughout the world...

Stupid people...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 05:31 PM

Why has Israel spent the last 8 months removing the cameras from the area?

What do they have to hide?

BBC journalists are reporting that the news blackout is a deliberate long term policy.

They have no doubt in their minds that this is part of a deliberate preparation for these events, which were planned long ago.


I am inclined to agree.


And as Israeli policy has been so deliberate in preventing access to information, it leaves me wonddering whether the Army's official line is true.


There is no need for a news blackout unless you have something to hide.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 05:04 PM

None of the Jews who left their countries of origin in the Middle East have any desire to return to those countries. If anyone can find some who do want to return, and they are not being allowed to by the governments of those countries, show me some documentation of their existence, and then we'll talk.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 05:02 PM

BTW, it should be noted that in the Mandate, it was never intended that the part that was to include the Jewish homeland should be a Jewish state with a permanent Jewish majority. It was only intended for that part of the mandated territory to be a place where Jews would have a home. European Jews were supposed to be able to live there with the indigenous inhabitants, but as equals and not as rulers. So if we're going by the Mandate plan, Israel has no right to exist whatever.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 05:01 PM

CarolC,

The 1947 borders were REJECTED by the Arab league, and a war fought.


Should I now claim the boundaries of the CSA as of 1860, and insist that the US give up that land?

There were Arab Moslims who did NOT flee as refugees: Israel welcomed them. Were are the Arab Jews that were driven out of the Arab Moslim nations?


Like Pakistan and India, the intent of the British Empire was for the population exchange to balance out the individual losses: If the Arab Moslims want to have their original property, there must be equity: Thaos Jews driven out must be restored and THEIR rights respected. How many troops are you willing to support to insure that?

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 04:56 PM

People whose minds are open to the concept of apartheid.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: pdq
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:35 PM

bb,

the site you linked to at "Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:06 PM" is excellent. Anyone with an open mind should check it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:13 PM

Israel currently occupies a much larger area than what it was given in the partition plan, and that's even before 1967...

http://www.mideastweb.org/palestine_partition_detail_map1947.jpg

Changing the subject of the rights of people to remain in their homes now will not work with me. What is needed is for Israel to complete the annexation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem, and give everyone currently living in those places, as well as in the rest of Israel, and their offspring, the same rights of citizenship and the exact same civil rights.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:06 PM

http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/PartitionforTransJordan.asp


Waiting on more statements that black is white, bad is good, and reality is not important to the discussion.


The Mandate Palestine was part of the same treatieas that formed Iran, Syria, Turkey, and other countries in that region- Yet the Jewish state is the only one that is supposed to keep giving away its land to others.


Again, I ask you to look at the Moslim population of Israel, and the Jewuish population of the other nations- then tell me about how the present Palestinian refugees have rights that you have denied to the Israelis.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 03:00 PM

My whole point in what I said about the targeting of Jews outside of Israel as opposed to the targeting of Palestinians outside of Palestine is that THE BEHAVIOR AND EVEN THE EXISTANCE OF ISRAEL AS A JEWISH STATE DOES NOT MAKE JEWS SAFER THAN THEY WOULD BE WITHOUT IT. That's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:58 PM

The people of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem do not have a state of their own on their own land, and the land that they are on is as much legally theirs as the land that Israel is on is legally Israel's. If Israel can use the United Nations as it's legal justification, so can the Palestinians, on top of the fact that those areas are also the Palestinians' by birthright.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: heatherblether
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:50 PM

To Bearded Bruce

The Israeli military command have always said a great deal of guff after committing the most terrible of war crimes.

They have blown up several schools during the past week or so but I remember other Israeli attacks and massacres from Qana to the refugee camps of Shatilla and Sabra.

Time and time again in other invasions the Israelis have dropped their massive bombs on women and children or have strafed fleeing refugees with missiles or have stood guard while their fascist allies have gone in to do the wet work with knives and bayonets and grenades.
I dont know how you can begin to defend or justify this crew of well armed,well funded and ever so well spoken baby killers.

This time around the mass murder is coming into our homes via non Israeli channels and no wonder that the Israeli military is so keen to keep coverage controlled and sanitised. The world is seeing picture after picture of scores of babies,infants,young kids , teenagers and old ladies maimed and murdered bu US made and Israeli delivered bombs,shells and missiles.

Let us not forget that these civilians are being penned in like cattle to be slaughtered .They do not have anywhere to go.Israel even controls the sea and beaches and is more than prepared to drop a shell or two onto civilians on the beaches of Gaza.And only last week an Israeli gunboat rammed a cabin cruiser the size of my bathroom laden with...yes wait for it, medical supplies for the victims of the Israeli Defence Force [by the way that in itself is a bit of a misnomerisn't it].

Gaza is a giant prison of over a million people and its borders are sealed ,and have been sealed for 18 months by Israel contrary to international law.Israel has been waging collective punishment against a civilian population.

Hey, but this is nothing new! The state of Israel was founded on the ethnic clearances of hundreds of thousands of Palestinian people many of whom ended up in Gaza .They're still killing these refugees and their children and grandchildren.It was founded on stolen land,stolen farms,erased villages and the theft of whole cities.

In the process Palestinians were murdered en masse in places like Deir Yassin.


I recount these things not to convince you Bearded Bruce but to remind other Mudcatters of the terrible fate that has befallen the Palestinian people since their exile in 1948.
Free Palestine!
Ifor

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:27 PM

"I haven't heard any reports of Palestinians being targeted outside of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem, "

Yet the attacks on Jews ????


Seems like there is a slight bias being shown in the rest of the world, since it is claimed that Hamas is being criticised as well- Just very quietly, without any violence or demonstrations as seem to be appropriate against Jews.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:23 PM

hetherblether,

you missed part of the report:

"The Israeli army said its soldiers came under fire from militants hiding in the school and responded. It accused Gaza's Hamas rulers of "cynically" using civilians as human shields."


Using the school as a military armed post is in violation of the Geneva Conventions, aned is a WAR CRIME.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:19 PM

"In 1923 the British "chopped off" 75% of the proposed Jewish Palestinian homeland to form an Arab Palestinian Nation of "Trans-Jordan," meaning "across the Jordan River." The Palestinian Arabs now had THEIR homeland... the remaining 25% of the original Palestinian territory (west of the Jordan River) was to be the Jewish Palestinian homeland."

Are you claiming this is not true? Please provide some evidence that Jordan does not exist: I have seem enough evidence that it does.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:16 PM

"I don't make that point because it's not true."

It is as true as YOUR statement- so YOU must be lying.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 02:15 PM

"They need a state of their own because that's the only way they will have any rights on their own land. "


They ( the Palestinians) HAVE had a state of their own, since 1923, when the ARAB MOSLIM HOMELAND was split off from Mandate Palestine, and Jews were forbidden to settle there.

ANd Jordan offered the Arab Moslims who fled Israel ( a small part of the total Moslim population) citizenship IF THEY RENOUNCED VIOLENCE.

http://www.unitedjerusalem.com/Graphics/Maps/PartitionforTransJordan.asp

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: bobad
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 01:22 PM

Israel gets scolded once again.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 01:18 PM

And the whole reason I made that point to begin with is that people say the reason Jews need to have a Jewish state is because that's the only thing that will guarantee their safety. We know that not only does the Jewish state not guarantee anyone's safety, but it actually makes Jews less safe everywhere in the entire world. Nobody is making the argument that the Palestinians need a state of their own because it will make them safer. They need a state of their own because that's the only way they will have any rights on their own land.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 01:16 PM

LH,

You, and others here, seem to miss the point. When it was Israeli civilians being killed, there were no demonstrations, no sense of outrage, no comment that a cease-fire was needed, no attacks upon random Moslims in other countries.

If a Jew dares to defend himself, he becomes a criminal and guilty, but no like effect is put upon those killing Jews.


Reality, not a dream. Look at the Lebenon Ceasefire terms- what parts have been implemented- and what parts ignored because they did not apply to Jews?

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 01:13 PM

I don't make that point because it's not true. I haven't heard any reports of Palestinians being targeted outside of Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem, and I haven't heard any reports about them being targeted by anyone except Israelis.

Subject: RE: BS: Waiting for protests... (Gaza)
From: GUEST,beardedbruce
Date: 06 Jan 09 - 01:09 PM

The attacks on Palestinians in Gaza prove that the actions of the government of Gaza make Palestinians, both in Gaza as well as worldwide LESS safe rather than more safe.


Just as true- but I notice you don't bother making THAT point.