BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:33 AM

The age of consent for boys was lowered to sixteen a few years ago in the UK, because it was argued that it ought to be the same for boys as it was for girls. The alternative way of achieving this, by raising the age for girls was dismissed as unrealistic.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:07 AM

Carol, the exchange was a pleasure! I'm going to knock off now. I'll check back in the morning. Give it some thought, if you want. I really don't bite...Unless riled(wink).

P.S. those aren't commas, but spaces, as in dialogue(script writing). I'll try to be more mindful of them......(smile)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 05:00 AM

Fair enough, then Carol. I appreciate your honesty. I've raise children, myself....so perhaps our thoughts on the matter may be enlightening for the other readers, who may not either have that experience to match up with their opinions.

(Sheeesh, I even have grand children)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:58 AM

I have to say that the way you use commas makes it very difficult to understand your posts. A good rule of thumb for commas is "when in doubt, leave it out". Most of yours aren't necessary and they muddy your meaning and make it very difficult to discern.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:55 AM

I don't think two kids who have sex together should be penalized in any way.

I think that adults should not be allowed by law to have sex with kids. Not men with girls, and not men with boys, or women with boys or women with women, and not anyone with hermaphrodites. Exceptions could be made if they have parental consent to get married, but I don't have an opinion yet about the lowest age for that to be allowed. And as I said, I don't have a strong opinion about 18 being the age without parental consent. I would need to think about it a lot more before I could form a strong opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:54 AM

...and, ...to be fair..the question of a minor's civil rights, would be brought up. being as someone who belongs to NAMBLA, would of course, raise that issue,...So, with that in mind as well, I didn't know for sure if that would play into your answer...would that matter?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:48 AM

Oh, I asked the question, again, because, you said in your answer, that 18 would be better, then you mentioned 'legal consequences', so I re-asked, to see if there would be a clarification, as to 'legal', as opposed to anything else.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:45 AM

So, let me get your opinion on this,
Being as NAMBLA wants to lower the legal age, would it be ok then?..Why? or why not?

I already answered these questions. Why are you asking them again?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:43 AM

I'm just getting an opinion from you. There was no point, as far as to clobber anyone with. As a woman reading this thread, i thought it would be good to get ..um..perhaps a different view point, other than the one posted, by the guys...fair enough?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:42 AM

So, let me get your opinion on this,
Being as NAMBLA wants to lower the legal age, would it be ok then?..Why? or why not?

I already answered these questions. Why are you asking them again?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:39 AM

My question is - what is your point?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:39 AM

Crossposted.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:39 AM

You still haven't answered my question. I answered yours. It's not a trick question. Are you stumped?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:38 AM

Refresh me..What was your question?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:37 AM

ok, fair enough...I'm just talking to you...now you mentioned 18, and you mentioned 'legal consequences'. So, let me get your opinion on this,
Being as NAMBLA wants to lower the legal age, would it be ok then?..Why? or why not?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:34 AM

You still have not answered my question. It's not a trick question. Are you stumped?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:33 AM

I would point out that I don't think there should be any legal consequences for two people (either of the same sex or opposite sexes) who are both under the age of consent engaging in sexual activity together. Only when one of the parties is over the age of consent and the other one is not.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:30 AM

Again, fair enough. Think it through...same with boys too....

(By the way, it was your earlier post, that caused me to ask the question, so..this is good)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:27 AM

I need to think about it a bit before I answer that with conviction, but my inclination right now is to say 18.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:23 AM

Ok, fair enough...you mentioned girls as well...what about an age of consent for girls?....How old is fair?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:22 AM

Because their whole purpose is to get the age of consent lowered for boys. I'm not in favor of lowering the age of consent for boys (or for girls, either).

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:18 AM

As I said, it wasn't a 'trick question'

How come it isn't ok with you?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:17 AM

Of course it's not alright with me. What's your point?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:16 AM

The question was, is NAMBLA alright with you?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:15 AM

ooops.....I meant, "I think they're 'stumped', by the question"

probably making them think too hard

..lets see, how do we balance honesty, with a political agenda, when we have to think that hard???

Nonetheless, I'll wait for someone to answer...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:13 AM

I can't find the question. Could you please post it again?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:10 AM

Hi, Ake, way over there across the pond!...waves

I think their stump, by the question...

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 04:00 AM

....and of course , that I can't spell "fascism" :0)

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:57 AM

Just to clarify why I started this thread.

It is not because I hate homosexuals, but that I think the current promotion of homosexuality as being "just another lifestyle" is completely and dangerously wrong.
There are many negatives in the practice of male homosexuality and very few positives.
The health figures, life expectancy, promiscuity, paeodophilia psychiatric problems etc etc make this a behaviour which we should not be promoting in primary schools, in fostering, or marriage.

Ignoring the available statistics because they do not suit the discredited mantra of "Orwellian liberalism" proves that facsism is alive and well on the "liberal left"

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Gust from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:55 AM

Don:'P. S. I am acquainted with a fair number of people who are same-sex oriented (after all, I live in Seattle's Capitol Hill District) and I had not heard of NAMBLA until I read this thread. As I say, small, no traction.'

Well, they've been interviewed on different news shows..they're not all that unknown...

P.s. Knock off the 'homophobes' stuff, too. Can't you carry on a conversation without resorting to name calling, and presumptive assumptions??

The question was, is NAMBLA alright with you?

Simple

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:47 AM

Sure, Carol..or Don...or anyone..its not a 'trick question'

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:40 AM

Is what all right with me?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 03:39 AM

Again, I have no time to respond properly, but I would remind you all, that in Wolfgang you are taking issue with a real, live, certified, statistician...who is always very precise in what he says.

The problem seems to be, that sexual attacks on young boys are very much more common than shown by the collated figures, as they often go unreported.
It is only the most high profile ones, like the "gay activists", youth organisers, religious leaders, homosexual foster parents etc which come to light.

I have not invesigated the homosexual/ paedophile figures properly, but there are statistics on line which state that in percentage terms, there are a very much larger no of homosexual/paedophiles than heterosexual/paedophiles.
Why this is so, remains a subject for debate, but the figures remain incontrovertible,
As with the homosexual/aids figures, the percentage of homosexuals in the community....now reckoned to be 2-3%, has to be kept in mind when real nubers are being thrown around.

I have to be brief and I have cited this before, but a foster father who lived near me when I was child, abused only the boys whom he fostered..... the girls were never touched, so it is incorrect to say that paedophiles are a seperate species...there are homosexual paedophiles and heterosexual paedophiles only rarely will a paedophile abuse boys and girls.

My contention is that men who indulge in the homosexual practice, have a propensity towards paedophelia, the figures available
and my observations throughout my life....lead me to that contention

I do not believe that "every homosexual is a paedophile"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 02:16 AM

So, I ask again...is it all right with you?

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:47 AM

Saying that the only organization like NAMBLA exists among gay men doesn't prove or even indicate anything at all about gay men. It only says something about the men who belong to and agree with NAMBLA's agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 07 Nov 09 - 01:17 AM

The National Association of Marlon Brando Look-Alikes?

NAMBLA is a very small organization that doesn't have a whole lot of traction. The attempt to equate NAMBLA with same-sex orientation in general is not only disingenuous, it's downright dishonest.

But then, I've had to learn not to be surprised at the lengths homophobes are willing to go to.

Don Firth

P. S. I am acquainted with a fair number of people who are same-sex oriented (after all, I live in Seattle's Capitol Hill District) and I had not heard of NAMBLA until I read this thread. As I say, small, no traction.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 09:45 PM

As I pointed out before, NAMBLA is the only 'organization' I know of,by EITHER gender, that advocates having sex with children, consensual(?), that is statutory rape, or otherwise, and it is comprised pretty much of males(?). The name should tell you that itself. True..or not??

(Another obvious truth skirted around!)

Here, check it out, but for all those 'defenders', try not to get 'turned on'!
By the way, check out the 'goal' as stated by #2!! (sounds reminiscent of stuff on here!)

#1
Welcome to NAMBLA's Home Page
The North American Man/Boy Love Association.
www.nambla.org - Cached
#2
AN INTRODUCTION TO NAMBLA
NAMBLA's goal is to end the oppression of men and boys who have mutually ... NAMBLA is a political, civil rights, and educational organization. ...
www.nambla.org/welcome.htm - Cached
#

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 05:02 PM

Wolfgang, your post shows that pedophiles tend to choose girls over boys, but that they aren't that discriminating.

It says nothing about Gay men.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 04:55 PM

Wolfgang, Kurt Freund's research is not accepted by everyone as reliable. CLICKY #1

Also worth reading. CLICKY #2

What articles I was able to find by Watkins and Bentovim seemed to be dealing primarily with the sex abuse scandals in the Catholic Church, and they seemed to be shot through with an attempt to convey the idea that what some rogue Catholic priests were up to with the altar-boys is common behavior in the secular community as well. A suspicious looking attempt to justify the behavior by claiming that "everybody does it." This sort of motivation tends to skew any attempt to provide "scientific evidence" for a particular viewpoint.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:57 PM

Bill Watkins & Arnon Bentovim, "The Sexual Abuse of Male Children and Adolescents: A Review of Current Research," Journal of Child Psychiatry 33 (1992)

for the last statistic mentioned.

Robert L. Johnson, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality (September 1988) for the claim that boys' abuse may be underreported.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:51 PM

I knew someone would bite.

E.g., Kurt Freund, et al., "Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality," Journal of Sex & Marital Therapy 10 (1984)

Look, out of three victims of paedophilia, two are girls and one is a boy, roughly. Put that in proportion with the respective percentages of homosexual and heterosexual males then you should not be surprised about qwhat I have written.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:47 PM

It's utterly irrelevant I know, but as a female child victim of 'heterosexual' paedophillia (is indeed there such a thing, when one is a child with no orientation of ones own, as the terminology itself utterly eradicates the victim?) I Love men, be they Straight, Gay or Bi.
Loadsa lovely men out there: one of them is my partner, many of them of whatever sexual orientation/persuasion are my friends and brothers. I also know very charming homosexual gentlemen, who have been very dear to me as uncles and employers. I'm sure many of them would have made exceptional fathers, who may have indeed protected me from the 'heterosexual' paedophiles, who repeatedly sexually assaulted me throughout my early Childhood.

Homosexual, heterosuxual, you're having a fucking laugh man, a child-fucker is a child-fucker. They each may have their personal kinks, but it's all the same to them: it's small, and it squeals when you do stuff to it..

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 02:08 PM

Thank you Jim.

In answer to your question, I suspect sadly that it leaves us no further than before.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:47 PM

"Men with homosexual leanings are more likely than men with heterosexual leanings to commit the crime of paedophilia."
I'd like to see the research on that one too please.
On the other hand, the overwhelming majority of rapes and sexual abuses (on both adults and children) are committed by hetrosexual men - so where does that leave us?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wesley S
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:26 PM

"Men with homosexual leanings are more likely than men with heterosexual leanings to commit the crime of paedophilia. That is a simple fact that everyone can know who has read a bit on that field."

If it's a simple fact I'm sure you'll have no trouble providing a link to the research that proves your statement.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Wolfgang
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 01:09 PM

Nearly all paedophiles are male. Is it sexist to mention this? No, it's just a fact.

Does follow from this fact that nearly all men are paedophiles? Not at all. Nearly all males are not paedophiles.

Some Mudcatters, however, have difficulties if it is mentioned that members of a minority group are more likely than people not belonging to this group to commit a certain type of crime. That can happen if it is religion what defines the minority group or sexual leaning or whatever.

But in fact, the situation is quite the same as in the innocuous starting paragraphs of my post.

Men with homosexual leanings are more likely than men with heterosexual leanings to commit the crime of paedophilia. That is a simple fact that everyone can know who has read a bit on that field.

Does from that follow that most homosexuals (men) are paedophiles? Not at all. By far most of the homosexual men are not paedophiles.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Lox
Date: 06 Nov 09 - 05:11 AM

"How a tree grows is affected by its genome, but also various other factors, such as the soil in which it grows and the way the wind blows and the rain falls."


McGrath, I hadn't read that metaphor before, least of all put in such sublime simple terms.

I think it deserves to be framed and hung in every family's home.



A quick aside on the subject of Addiction,

Recent research has shown a link between a persons propensity to be an addict and the dopamine levels in their brain.

Those whose brains do not produce normal levels of dopamine are significantly more likely to develop addictions.

Dopamine levels are predestined depending on what happens in the womb.

The child of someone who drinks, smokes or does drugs is much less likely to produce normal levels of dopamine and consequently they are more likely to develop addictions.

Current research into treatment for addicts is centreing on trying to synthesise dopamine as a chemiical "cure" or drugs that can help regulate dopamine levels.


As for why people get into the drugs in the first place,

most addicts suffer from addiction as one factor in a unique mixed package of various different problems.

Kids who suffer from personality disorders often develop addictions as part of their disorder.

Personality disorders are generally defined by a self centred mindset, an inability to take responsibility for oneself, a tendency to see the world in black and white absolute terms with no capacity to consider sades of grey, a tendency to self abuse and an inability to form nurturing relationships.

(While there are Gay people with personality disorders, homosexuality is not an example of one as the majority of Gay people are able to be considerate, take responsibility for themselves, respect themselves, form nurturing relationships and understand that not every question has a YES/NO answer.)

So for a child who has been born of alcoholic parents and perhaps abused or abandoned by them, becoming addicted to a substance is not necessarily a choice any more than it was a choice for me to resist becoming addicted to anything..

I am insticntively repelled at the idea of becoming dependant on a drug and my being would fight against my addiction if by some freakish chance I became addicted to something.

I am very grateful to my parents.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:48 PM

Horrendous victory, there, GfS! Yes, I was referring to GRAY's Anatomy. So you caught me in a spelling error! Oh, HORROR!!

There will be champagne in the GfS house tonight!

It started, GfS, when you accused me of being bigoted toward Christians when I identified those who tried to have a Washington State law rescinded as an out-or-state Christian coalition. My identification of this group was accurate, and it had nothing to do with my being bigoted toward Christians. As I explained, I belong to a Christian church. A main-line denomination (Lutheran) church which, I might add, is quite liberal, and has, on occasion, performed marriages for same-sex couples.

Then, you started quoting totally irrelevant Bible verses at me, and it went fromt there.

Also, you have a bit of a history from the previous thread on California's Proposition 8.

Speaking of history, I note that, as close as I can tell from your posting history, you have never posted on any of the music threads above the line. This is a folk music forum. Do you sing? Do you play a musical instrument? What are you doing here, anyway?

Don Firth

P. S. My wife just called me to dinner. I won't be back this evening.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 10:23 PM

Sorry, forgot to 'sign in'

More snidities, there GfS. When I mentioned Grey's Anatomy, I was not referring to the television series. In fact, I didn't even think of the television series (I've never watched it). I was referring to the standard medical school textbook and a reference book that at least used to be in every doctor's office.

Perhaps if you studied a copy of the textbook, you might actually be able to locate your butt.

Don Firth


P.S.Did you mean?:

Search results

   1.
      Gray's Anatomy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
          * Origins|
          * Most recent available editions|
          * See also|
          * References
      Henry Gray's Anatomy of the Human Body, commonly shortened to Gray's Anatomy, is an English-language human anatomy textbook widely regarded as a classic work on the subject.
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gray's_Anatomy - 57k - Cached

Just clarifying, because 'Gr-E-y's Anatomy, IS the T.V. show.

Subject: RE: BS: 'Gay' activists jailed for paedophilia,
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Nov 09 - 09:51 PM

Don, I just scrolled down through this thread, and found no attacks from me to you. On the contrary, you started your antics, once again, (that is quite evident, as well). If you find, somewhere on this thread, that substantiates your accusation, cut and paste it. Prove me wrong..or shut up!!!

Other than that, let's stick to the topic, ok?