more session rudeness

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:15 AM

I thing you'll find the responsibility rests on the person whom is offended... They may need counselling?!?

These guys are very talented young adults who have been brought up in sessions and festivals etc... they don't need a lecture from anyone here!!!

Get over your pompous idea of what the protocols in the folk world should be and just enjoy what these guys can do.

BTW... I really like you Ruth, you have made a lot of sense, if any of these people could leave their "I need to parent" urges behind and got to know them they would see they are great people.

I mean... how many here attacking are actually parents? or how many had parents who spent most of their time at folk events? Can you not empathise with these guys?

It's not the first time I have heard someone complaining about not getting the welcome they expected at a session and it wont be the last. It's an unfortunate trait that humans have to misconstrue a situation which is what it sounds like has happened here. It has turned into this ageist argument cos people seem to want to latch on and attack for what ever reason (envy, because their different etc.)

Stop begging for an apology and just accept that shit happens and not everyone is destined to get on!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Polite Guest
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:03 AM

Oops! Something weird happened to the link there...Try this: :0)

'Folk This Festivals' - myspace page

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Polite Guest
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:00 AM

"These guys and gals are by no means insignificant, watch this space!"

Yeehaa! That's the spirit! That's EXACTLY how I wanted you to feel...angry!

So, come on then....prove it to us!

Let's see that page up and running and let's hear you, see you! That way we can send you out to others, and get your music whizzing around Myspace too. And also you can send your page out to festivals.

Here's a page where you can find a lot of them, on Myspace.

a href="http://www.myspace.com/folkallthis ">'Folk This Festivals' myspace page

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Polite Guest
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 05:00 AM

: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer - PM
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:24 AM

*sigh*

just because you don't know about them, Lizzie, doesn't make them "insignificant". One of them, who has been posting on this thread, is in one of Eliza Carthy's bands. A bunch of them (who have a band, and a Myspace site, though I'm not surprised they don't want to share it with the vindictive and/or patronising bunch they've met here) will be playing a ceilidh at Sidmouth again this year.

Believe it or not, they're doing just fine without your help and "support". In fact, going on past form, I'd say that's probably the last thing the poor blokes (and girl) need.















Another lesson in rudeness.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 04:45 AM

I think someone actually saying 'sorry we offended you' - or even 'sorry if we offended you' - would have gone a long way towards putting this thread to rest. The most we seem to have heard from anyone on the "CAF" side is "hey, people get offended sometimes, shit happens, let's just forget about it" - which is friendly enough but falls some way short of taking responsibility for anything.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 04:20 AM

Ruth,

Why not bring your melodeon out in Bampton next year? Or the Morris party if you are there?

To be honest I think its difficult to get the right balance at sessions - after a few beers I tend to get a bit carried away, and play some fairly obscure tunes, play too fast etc. However if anyone else does that I can sometimes get a bit annoyed. Other times I just sit back and enjoy it. The huge range of factors makes everything difficult to analyse - location, type of session, quantity of beer drunk, type of beer drunk, all make different people react differently to different situations - there is no one answer to making all sessions great - although more communication makes things a lot easier. If you have introduced yourself to people and had a chat they will naturally be more receptive to you joining in. Human nature i guess.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Dave
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 04:16 AM

Young adults acting like kids perhaps?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 04:13 AM

Ruth Archer has said the youngsters were invited to "populate" the session, they thought they were there to lead it. Either way, the role of a session leader is to get it going, keep it going if there's a lull, and make sure eveyone gets involved. It's not to play tune after tune for others to join in with if they can. But most likely these youngsters were just having a good time and got a bit carried away.

Perhaps the youngsters were a bit insensitive (as youngsters will be) and perhaps the OP was a bit oversensitive, for someone of his experience. Hopefully everyone will have learned something from this.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,FolkisCool
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:49 AM

I think you'll find these are not kids but young adults, very talented young adults.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:43 AM

Can I have a T-shirt too please? 3XL? My original Inspiral Carpets "Cool as fuck" T-shirt doesn't fit any more.

And can I be included next time you play? I work a simple system. Tell me the key, and I'll play in it (with a few seconds to get the capo on). If I'm not playing the note you are, it's harmony. If I'm not playing the same beat you are, it's syncopation. If I can't manage either of those, it's jazz.

I'm not sure I want the post-meonpausal knickers though, Ruth. Well, I might, I haven't met the owner. But that comment was a bit out of order.

I'm torn. I'm sure the kids are brilliant, and every so often here there seems a flash of fun (like the largely misunderstood one about getting young girls pissed and then finding them too old - a bit like a remark about the drummer in Captain Beefheart's band when I saw them live decades ago - quite a bit ruder than the well known Jim Morrison comment), but there does also seem to be a thread of defensive hostility from some of the (I infer) posse, and there can be little doubt that the OP was made to feel very unwelcome.

We don't need kid-bashing (or granny-bashing). We don't want pomp and self-importance.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Banjiman
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:35 AM

"If you're good then you can perhaps be excused a bit of arrogance."

Why?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:28 AM

Acorn, you're right: everyone IS in Bellowhead. In fact, that's what we should do with this very silly thread: Six Degrees of Bellowhead. How many steps would it take for you to be called up as a dep?

I make it four, and I can only play one tune on my melodeon. :)

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Acorn4
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:27 AM

Their music isn't just empty virtuosity, the fiddles do all sorts of harmonies, cross rhythms and is eminently listenable. I think that green eyed monster has been in evidence on some of the posts. One or two of the posters have implied that they are some kind of chavs -but you don't get as good as they are without hours of hard work and practice - CAF obviously don't spend all their free time watching Big Brother so let's be grateful in that sense.

If you're good then you can perhaps be excused a bit of arrogance.

It's if you're mediocre and arrogant that it gets really annoying.

But of course there's no one like that on the folk scene, is there?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:24 AM

*sigh*

just because you don't know about them, Lizzie, doesn't make them "insignificant". One of them, who has been posting on this thread, is in one of Eliza Carthy's bands. A bunch of them (who have a band, and a Myspace site, though I'm not surprised they don't want to share it with the vindictive and/or patronising bunch they've met here) will be playing a ceilidh at Sidmouth again this year.

Believe it or not, they're doing just fine without your help and "support". In fact, going on past form, I'd say that's probably the last thing the poor blokes (and girl) need.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Alan Day
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:20 AM

In an attempt to bring this back to the original subject,I would like to ask this question.
At a session do you think popular tunes should be played so everyone joins in,or do you think it rude to play tunes that nobody knows.
Al

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Acorn4
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:20 AM

You mean Cool as Folk aren't in Bellowhead!

I thought everyone was in Bellowhead!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,FolkisCool
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 03:13 AM

"Stop being 'insignificant', get yourselves organised, get yourselves together and....get going on getting yourselves 'out there' where *everyone* can find you, see you and hear you."

These guys and gals are by no means insignificant, watch this space!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Polite Guest
Date: 17 Jun 08 - 01:41 AM

"You will not find any reference anywhere to Cool as Folk Brigade or any such as this is a term originating from the OP possibly based on the T-Shirt worn by one of the musicians which has written upon it the words "Folk is Cool"."


Just a thought here, but if this thread is to be about anything, other than a few lessons being learned, why not have it as the birth of a new folk 'supergroup' called (altogether now)...

'Cool As Folk'

Get yourselves recorded somehow, put some photos, info and tracks up on a Myspace page and VOILA!

Stop being 'insignificant', get yourselves organised, get yourselves together and....get going on getting yourselves 'out there' where *everyone* can find you, see you and hear you.

Harness your talent, your energy and enthusiasm and you'll be surprised what may start to happen.

Out of the ashes and all that...

Oh and...watch out Bellowhead! :-)

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,dizzyLisa
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 09:35 PM

"They are probably too old to learn manners now and we will soon forget them"   

Most unlikely (well on the 2nd count anyway!) As I'm more than twice their age, I'm pretty sure most of them will still be doing this long after I'm gone...and if they're as good as this now......!?!
I'm not saying they are the ONLY young musicians-far from it, but they act as a magnet to other quality musicians. It's often irritating as 1/2 the space is filled with people JUST listening so you can't get in to play....

Yeah Houston....you young upstart... How can you speak with any authority when you've only been going to festivals for your whole life.
Tut tut for wasting time in your previous incarnation!!!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Saggy
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 09:12 PM

I blame Mr. Diamond for this thread going on so long, all his shit stirring......Peace and Love!!! How Dare You!! ;p

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 08:54 PM

Yes, good friend Bert. That is why I said that "....classy person (that is a gender and age neutral term) who is running the session would try to make all welcome." This isn't about age, exactly. But it is a hallmark of many young talented folks.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Bert
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 08:51 PM

It isn't really about music or about age.

I have seen exactly the same behaviour from a clique of middle aged guitar players at a very well known club in Pennsylvania. I just gave up going to that club. One of the guys actually said words to the effect that if you want to play then you have to push in.

If that is what I wanted to do I would have joined a Rugby club.

And one time a real old fart came into an impromptu session at one of the getaways. He just pushed in and took, over asking his favorites to play out of turn. We all left him and his gang doing THEIR thing and went and played somewhere else.

If your are paid to run a session and a stranger turns up then it is just good manners to make them feel welcome and part of the group.

The only time that it is acceptable to keep doing your own stuff and ignore other musicians, is if you are up on stage giving a performance.

The way that those players treated Charley was arrogant and selfish. They are probably too old to learn manners now and we will soon forget them.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 08:51 PM

Yes, Ruth, I understand that is the case on occasion. But when I look at the truly enduring artists (remember that I am from the States), say a Jean Ritchie, or Pete Seeger, and I am sure that you can give me many examples from your turf, are usually very gracious. That is not to say that I haven't encountered some complete twits, but the never last long. Folks figure them out.

Enough of this. Let's continue on another thread. This one is getting boring.

Mick

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 08:34 PM

"I realise this is completely off topic..."

WHAAAT topic?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 08:22 PM

I like your take on the folk world, Mick - but do you really think it's the nice guys who end up with the most enduring careers? The music industry is full of stories about people who are arrogant, difficult or "precious". Interestingly, they can be some of the greatest talents.

I realise this is completely off topic...

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Big Mick
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 08:16 PM

OK, fair enough. My world is different than yours. In my world, folks running a session, where it is advertised that folks should bring an instrument and join in, means that a classy person (that is a gender and age neutral term) who is running the session would try to make all welcome.

As to my comment about Toronto and Nashville, it wasn't designed to indicate anything about me, other than I have been around players that are very good, and their attitudes towards others that are not at their level of developement have a much greater level of graciousness than what I see from these folks here. I am not worried about what you think of me, you see, because when you all fall on your arses because you aren't getting your due, these players will still be getting paid to perform. So go ahead and run your mouths, but most of you will be a memory on the music scene when the folks I am speaking of will still be drawing a check.

Based on what I see here, Charley is very likely being over sensitive. If he has the level of exposure to the scene that his posts indicate, he should understand we see young turks come and go all the time. They are flashy, but never mature. Their stock in trade is to belittle, be flashy and then disappear. Good riddance. A few will last, and usually learn the lessons of time. Those that stay arrogant usually flash brightly, then turn into to hard bitten people bemoaning why folks don't see their talent.

That is the way of folk. It is bigger than the performers, will be here when the know it alls are gone, and emerge when needed to hook another generation.

So fire away, young folks. Just don't get too anxious when some of us don't get all that jaundiced.

And keep playing the music. It will teach you humility.

Mick

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:52 PM

Sorry, I should not have said everybody, but them that need to grow know who they are

Barry

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:50 PM

"Booked as a presence", "may the farce be with us"

Heh, Heh, Heh

Orsen Wells meets George Orwell

the session & this thread sounds like a cross between "War of the Worlds" & "Animal Farm".

Maybe the organgrinders should figure out where they went astray

To bad, kind of a shame that this's all gone to shit when there was so much potential


Was it fun? No
Was it enjoyable? No
Was it interesting? Yes
Was it educational, Very
But it's still ashame!

Doesn't matter about the age, everybody needs to grow up

Barry

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:44 PM

Yeah.

X-large for me. (They shrink in the dryer. I like the 'loose' feel.)

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:41 PM

Which way for the free t-shirts?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,dizzyLisa
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:38 PM

Not quite yet....
232 posts in 10 hours....quite impressive
233 now !

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:34 PM

Godd common sense, Don and good to hear from you again -see you at Sidmouth.

Very late

Heads under wings, beaks under blankets, all eyes closed...

Goodnight!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:29 PM

If these young people of CAF, were booked to lead

The way I'm reading things at the moment, it seems more to provide a presence and ensure at least some music is happening but I guess one could still make a case for perhaps backing off a bit, etc...

But a problem with these threads is many of us jump on the report we most believe, perhaps best matches our own beliefs over what a session should be like but weren't there ourselves.

In my first post I had said "(and I might not have thought much of those involved)" but that's just one possibility and why I put it in brackets. I might have found them a nice bunch but not for me, etc. (or perhaps if I was there I'd be thinking what's the originator on about, etc.). Fact is, without being present, I can't know.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:22 PM

"If these young people of CAF, were booked to lead, then perhaps they were not well advised as to how that is best achieved. When I delegate, I ensure that the person is completely aware of my requirements, and if those requirements are not met that person WILL hear from me."

for me, this is the key. I don't think they were booked to run sessions - it's a very different role. Perhaps the festival didn't make its requirements clear - but it sounds like someone else was actually booked to run sessions. My understanding is that, in the past, actual players have been a bit thin on the ground. These guys were brought in to play and keep the music going.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:19 PM

One of the things I have always like about you, Don T, is your common sense.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:15 PM

Anytime I am involved in a session, and I have been for the last forty seven years, I am grateful for the sight of young people with commitment to the kind of music I have loved for all those years.

I am prepared to make allowances for the fact that they were born into a different world than the one I grew up in. When I was a kid, you respected your elders, no matter what. This is no longer true. These days you don't get respect by living a long time (except, possibly in China), you have to EARN it.

In the days of the "Folk Revival" (actually, it was more a case of "It's always been there, but we've only just noticed it"), we were the brash and arrogant little upstarts who drove the old 'uns mad.

Now it's our turn to find there are things about the younger generation that we DON'T like. Situation normal!

One thing I will always like is a young folkie. If he is inadvertently less than respectful, he will respond to a quiet word of advice. If he is genuinely rude and arrogant, he will, at some point, have have the rough edges ground off by his contemporaries.

If these young people of CAF, were booked to lead, then perhaps they were not well advised as to how that is best achieved. When I delegate, I ensure that the person is completely aware of my requirements, and if those requirements are not met that person WILL hear from me.

The bottom line is that we should, IMO, not walk away, but persist in showing the respect for young people, that we complain about not getting FROM young people.

That is probably the only way to get the message across, that we know that, just as they can learn from us, WE CAN LEARN FROM THEM.

Don T.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST,FolkisCool
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 07:05 PM

You will not find any reference anywhere to Cool as Folk Brigade or any such as this is a term originating from the OP possibly based on the T-Shirt worn by one of the musicians which has written upon it the words "Folk is Cool".

So can we all agree to disagree? There is plenty of talent at session young and old, choose a session that suits you and be happy or if you're not happy and you think you stand for the majority there do not wait until afetr the event to come on here and start a flame war, stand up for your beliefs and make them heard.

I know all of the individuals who play togather at sessions regularly and I dont believe they would deliberately exclude someone from the session although I can understand how it may have been misread as such.

Let it be, this post has gone on long enough now for a missunderstanding.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:55 PM

Sorry, the link to John's site doesn't seem to work but if you type in:-

www.montysmusic.com   

in Explorer it will coonect you to the site.

Great bloke who does a lot for music in the E.Mids.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:46 PM

"I'd still like to hear them though, if it's possible."

go to a festival. They attend lots of them, as has been pointed out earlier in the thread.

"Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Peter Beta - PM
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:00 PM

You're a nasty piece of work, Ruth."

Please. I am defending people I know and have musical respect for against people who don't know them, have never seen or heard them play, have never been to the bloody festival they're heatedly defending, and are judging based on the moan (with the greatest of respect) of one person who felt excluded.

When the Big Session asked me for a recommendation of people who could POPULATE A SESSION (not lead it) and keep the music going over the weekend, I had no hesitation recommending these guys. They've performed the same role for me in the past. And, having seen how they play and behave in a session situation on numerous occasions, I would not hesitate to recommend them again.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:46 PM

Sorry, I misunderstood a bit - just don't see how your confidence could be knocked by one bad experience after 20 years experience playing - still, apparently Ralph McTell is still a bag of nerves before a gig!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:43 PM

Oh to add, Charlie, John Montague's website:-

www.montysmusic.com

And to "Cool as Folk" - I'm not into T-shirts but I'll have a pint off you for sticking up for you in one or two places in this thread !

How's that for politics!

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:43 PM

until late in the thread I didn't realise that you were quite new to the folk scene

Eh?

Charley: "I am not a beginner, I have nearly 20 years gigging experience with a wide range of people. I am paid to play every weekend."

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:40 PM

'WrightOldRacket' at 3:36 Mudcat time:

U know what I was trying to be diplomatic but forget it.

Maybe some people feel fucked over by the way some other people behaved but shit, that happens. It was unintentional.

Come and introduce yourself next time we in the same field and I'll buy U a beer. Maybe we can start a fresh?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Acorn4
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:37 PM

I hope Charley will return to the post as he's set off quite a powder keg here.

Charley, you said:-

"Without blowing my own trumpet, I think I made a reasonable fist of this."

This reminds me a bit of those football managers who say "If I was the sort of person who makes excuses I'd blame all the injuries the team has had lately" .

You were obviously worried about the blow to your confidence, and until late in the thread I didn't realise that you were quite new to the folk scene. I think I overlapped slightly with you in that session but wasn't there for when you did the solo. Acoustic guitar would just not carry well in a situation like that in a marquee because a guitar doesn't have that penetration.

Confidence has to be built up over a number of years and when you have had a lot of positive experiences, you don't worry too much about the negative ones , which happen to even the most seasoned of performers. Sometimes it's just a case of "horses for courses" and on some days there seems to ne just "something in the air" for no explicable reason. I had a blazing row with my wife over going to the same session instead of listening to a concert!

I'm not sure if you are local to the area but please don't think this is typical of Leicestershire . I know John Montague who ran the session well and he runs a monthly open mike at East Goscote - I can assure you you will be welcomed and listened to as you will be in the vast range of acoustic venues in the East Midlands.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:32 PM

Er, where is the bit about cool as folk buying Charley a beer?

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Polite Guest
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:27 PM

"I'm also quite amused by all of these patronising posts about 'our music', 'music of the people' etc etc. My experience of people who say things like this is that they are usually people who have discovered folk music later on in life, understandably fall in love with it and are very precious about it."


Nope, I'm not 'precious' about it. I want more people to hear it, enjoy it, know about it, but it would be such a shame if it became like 'any other music'. It *is* special, tough, because people care about it.

One of the 'cool as folk brigade' did offer a 'sorry we didn't realise, I'll buy you a beer next time' response to the original post (much) earlier in the thread but nobody seemed to notice... I got the impression that everyone was too busy being outraged...

Sorry lads and lasses, I hadn't spotted that bit. Apologies from me. I'll leave others to make their own. Thanks Cat, for telling us.

I'd still like to hear them though, if it's possible.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Peace
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:27 PM

Well, as R2D2 said:

Magic, moments,
When two hearts are carin',
Magic, moments,
Memories we've been sharin'. . .
I'll never forget the moment we kissed,
The night of the hayride,
The way that we hugged to try to keep warm,
While takin' a sleigh ride.
Magic, moments,
Memories we've been sharin',
Magic, moments,
When two hearts are carin' . . .
Time can't erase the memory of,
These magic, moments,
Filled with love!
whistling . . .
The telephone call that tied up the line,
For hours and hours,
The Saturday dance, I got up the nerve,
To send you some flowers.
Magic, moments,
Memories we've been sharin',
Magic, moments,
When two hearts are carin' . . .
Time can't erase the memory of,
These magic, moments,
Filled with love!
The way that we cheered,
Whenever our team,
Was scoring a touchdown!
The time that the floor,
Fell out of my car,
When I put the clutch down!
The penny arcade,
The games that we played,
The fun and the prizes!
The Halloween hop,
When everyone came,
In funny disguises.
Magic, moments,
Filled with love!
whistling . . .

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Barry Finn
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:26 PM

How many ways can one discribe an open session?

My take was based on the statemnet high above was "they were "invited" & "booked"!

So they were to lead an "open session", lead means that somewhere there is some form of responsibility!

If I'm off on this then "strighen me out"

We love our children unconditionally when they are not responsibile, once they become responsible they need to earn their own way!
Some need to be taught this,,,,often, some never learn!

Barry, whowasateensomethingyoung'unwhenhestartedoutinthefolkworld

Being born into something, anything, is an accident of nature.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:26 PM

No Peace. Once the British trolls sink their teeth in, I don't want to have anything to do with it. I've tried to stop the bitch-fest, the baiting and the bullying but without some other help, it's impossible.

If Max wants them to be able to take over with their hatred and what looks like a complete lack of self control or shame, then the place is theirs.

I don't fucking 'pick and choose'. I try, then I give up.

Subject: RE: more session rudeness
From: Houston_Diamond
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:24 PM

From: Phil Edwards - PM
Date: 16 Jun 08 - 06:09 PM

I'm not condoning that behaviour, but I cant say that happened or not, I wasn't there. All I have is both sides and an apology - then a load of people attacking them for being young!?! which I CAN see and cannot accept. Plus a load having a laugh cos it's a silly argument.

we're all supposed to be adults here and we may have just attacked the younger generation of musicians due to someone's paranoid delusion (not saying you are suffering one charley it may seem very real to you!) but you get my point.