From Max: State of the Union Address

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: catspaw49
Date: 15 May 06 - 01:31 PM

Early on in this thread I put in my 2 cents that I thought Roger would be okay and perhaps things would work if he stayed. Pardon me for being the biggest dumbass in three counties and I would like to rescind that statement. A normal person, even a dumbass like myself would have the good sense to make an apology, however badly it might come off and with whatever sincerity I could muster, and BACK OFF! But not Shambolina......Instead he's posted about 40 more times to the thread and done exactly what Max said!

Roger....when Mario says you misquote.......Call it whatever but your quotes of others are first INTERPRETED by you into what you want them to mean and not what they say......and this too you have proven on this thread by coming up with a questionong scenario that you're just trying to be helpful and you might consider leaving or maybe donating but before that you need to know blah, blah, blah, yada, yada, yada........

Dig it......Try to get a grip and read this...........Here's the quote and it is straightforward as hell. You can't spin it even though you have certainly tried:

"Shambles: I just don't care anymore. You press your point, time after time, until you press too far and then complain about the check. You do this purposefully to prove a point, but in the end, you are a distraction from the real point of this site. You too, should bid farewell."

Spaw

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: jeffp
Date: 15 May 06 - 01:30 PM

Oh no, LH. Those are squeal of pleasure!

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 May 06 - 01:22 PM

That's NOT true, jeffp! Pigs hate it when people wrestle them! ;-) Have you never been to a country fair and seen a "catch the greased pig" contest? My Gawd, how those little pigs HATE being chased, grabbed, and wrestled!

This seems to indicate fairly strongly that Roger is not a pig.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: jeffp
Date: 15 May 06 - 01:05 PM

When you wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig likes it

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: kendall
Date: 15 May 06 - 01:02 PM

On a dead man's door you can knock forever. Right, Roger?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:57 PM

Close this this thread, Kat? Isn't that censorship? I'd just suggest a title change: From Shambles: State Of The Union Address.

Jerry

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:56 PM

" it should be closed"

Why punish the thread?!?!?!

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:53 PM

This thread has been Shambjacked and, imo, as a member, it should be closed. As BillD basically said he's never going to get it, so why keep trying folks?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:20 PM

YOu repeat your false allegations all the time, Roger! But when I say something that can vbe verified by reading your threads you scream 'Foul!"

I have not cried 'foul' or anything else - I have just asked you to provide the source to support your claims.

MMario whatever ever I claim - I will provide evidence for. And I have done this in this thread. You keep going on about 'false allegations' will not make them so.

and I'm still waiting for an apology for your having misquoted me. Which you have done more then once.

If I have ever misquoted you - you will be able to demonstrate this by providing the evidence. If you can do this I will apologise. For what would be the point of me mis-quoting anyone? For if it was posted on our form (and our moderators have not deleted it) it will be here.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Bill D
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:11 PM

A troll you can identify and a troll who seems to be oblivious to being a troll......is still a troll.

You cannot win an argument with a troll!! You can be 'right', but you will never get a troll to say "oh, yeah, I see now!"

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: GUEST
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:11 PM

Max,

Please put a final and total stop to all of this gibberish thrown to us time and time again by Shambles. This would be a much better site if he was permanently deleted. It's your web site. Do something. Many of us would be grateful. I personally would give a wonderful donation for never seeing him and Martin Gibson again.

Thank you.

P.S. Maybe we can start a pay to get rid of Shambles campaign. It helps all.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MMario
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:06 PM

YOu repeat your false allegations all the time, Roger! But when I say something that can vbe verified by reading your threads you scream 'Foul!"

and I'm still waiting for an apology for your having misquoted me. Which you have done more then once.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:01 PM

MMario

Provide the source please? If you cannot - do not repeat it.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MMario
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:59 AM

oh my god. Did you read what you just posted? Talk about not practicing what you preach. Talk about "do as I say, not as I do".

roger - among others - *I* have pointed out your misqoutes of myself and requested an apology. I have never recieved one. WYSIWYG is another who has done so. I know Wesley has pointed out misquotes of his.

MANY people have pointed out your out of context quotes of Joe and Max. Have you apologized for ANY of them?

YOu insist that your point of view is the correct one even though many others have told you that it is not a commonly shared point of view. You claim to be holding a 'discussion' though you ignore or twist responses to your comments and you refuse to answers questions dealing with basic issues relevant to the topic you wish to 'discuss'.

Then you object when people call you on your behaviour, claiming to be 'bullied'. Yet your own behaviour is sterotypical of the bully.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:45 AM

I know of at least four people who have pointed out that you have mis-qouted them in support of your own views, and I know several people have asked for apologies. Haven't seen any.

Provide the source please? If you cannot - do not repeat it.

The whole concept of positions of responsibilty is that you are expected to set certain examples of conduct. If you cannot maintain the expected level of conduct - then you have no no right to hang-on to the trusted position - you do untold damage by the attempt and why would want to hang-on anyway?

If you can't stand the heat - stay out of the kitchen. You certainly have no right to stay there and throw pots and pans at the customers. The expectation that you can impose your judgement on others - indulge in the same poor conduct - but not expect to be judged and our forum not affected by this hypocrisy is preposterous.

But is is Mudlogic.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: lesblank
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:37 AM

If everybody would totally ignore the A--H--- who calls himself Shambles, he would have nada to respond to and , like all bad odors , simply dissipate !! Once again (I just have since I'm already here ) ROGER -- STICK IT !!!!

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MMario
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:31 AM

Roger - unlike you, most people don't seem to have any problem between distinguishing "action as moderator" and "action as human being". Many, many people react differently as individuals when functioning as themselves then they react as their job roles when performing their job functions.

And no, I am not proud of the fact that I let you get under my skin and push my buttons. BTW - have you ever apologized for the misqoutes and out of context qoutes you have utilized - or asked that they be corrected? I know of at least four people who have pointed out that you have mis-qouted them in support of your own views, and I know several people have asked for apologies. Haven't seen any.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:25 AM

If you have read my responses to you in various threads I assure you I have insulted you many times.

Is this the correct online conduct and example for a moderator to set?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:21 AM

Only shame was you didn't manage to ignore it........Thanks for refreshing the thread.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: BuckMulligan
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:16 AM

"Awshit" of the day - opening this thread and finding more Shrambles to ignore. Booger....

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MMario
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:14 AM

Roger - as I have said before - just because it is couched in polite terms dosn't make it any less an insult. If you have read my responses to you in various threads I assure you I have insulted you many times. If you cannot recognize them as insults, then I believe that either you are failing to read my responses, or possibly you are unable to comprehend the written language, as they are not difficult to find or to recognize.

And as I have posted before - there is no point in gratuatious repetition of such.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 May 06 - 11:06 AM

false statement, verifiable by checking your past posts.

MMario - Perhaps you would care to supply a source to support your accusation?
You could also supply evidence of the abusive personal attack on me that you have claimed to have posted and i was not aware of

Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain
From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 11 Aug 05 - 03:28 PM

I also find it an interesting challeng to respond to insults without resorting to insults. Although I guess I have to admit that I have sometimes given in to that temptation, I think I generally do a pretty good job of expressing myself rationally and with good humor..

Subject: RE: In the UK......? (thread title change complain
From: Joe Offer - PM
Date: 12 Aug 05 - 03:30 PM

You see, Roger, most of us are here to have a good time among friends. All of your adversarial crap is just that - adversarial crap. We volunteers do what we need to do to keep the peace and tidy things up. Nobody's out to offend your right to free speech - but if you insist on making an asshole of yourself, you're likely to be treated like an asshole. Basically, Mudcat is here for enjoyment - not for all this heavy stuff you try to lay on us. You want to play war games, and that's not what we're here for.

No, I really can't defend our editorial actions, and I have no reason to defend anything to an idiot who can make such a big deal about the addition of three little words, "in the UK," to a thread title. We just try to do what we think is right, to make things run a little more smoothly around here. That's basically what Max asked us to do when he gave us editing buttons. And we volunteers don't pretend to sit in judgment over anybody here, as you so often contend. We're just here to deal with the problems.

If that's not satisfactory to you, so be it. Tough shit, in other words. Nobody named you judge and jury. And despite your four-year campaign, you haven't been able to convince Max to crack down on us volunteers, have you? Doesn't that tell you something?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: MMario
Date: 15 May 06 - 10:57 AM

or an apparently psychotic and compulsive behaviour from someone who CLAIMS to have no desire to change or influence the way Max runs his site.

have never indulged in abusive personal attacks and I have never responded in kind to the many I am subjected to and not protected from false statement, verifiable by checking your past posts.


posters are encouraged to post only to call me offensive names in your opinion. Others do not see it that way.

For those wo seem to feel Max is running a money scam - until and *if* donations ever get to the point of meeting monthly costs on a consistant basis - how can it possibly be "putting money into Max's beer fund"?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 15 May 06 - 10:45 AM

Shambles I don´t know you , I have nothing against you
I belive you must keep a better man than this ......

You mean have I stopped beating my wife yet?

Just because posters are encouraged to post only to call me offensive names and the current Chief of the Mudcat Editing Team has variously posted and judged me to be a looney, an idiot, an asshole and lately a buffoon - does not mean that I am in fact any of those things or have really done anything to deserve being called such things. They don't know me either.

I have never indulged in abusive personal attacks and I have never responded in kind to the many I am subjected to and not protected from. I ask for equal treatment and toleration , and am now thought a 'distraction' to the main point of the forum. Which would often appear now to encouraged all posters to be making pointless judgements of every other poster.

Would you be such a happy soul if you were subjected to this special treatment on our forum from those who are supposed to be protecting you from it?? What you see and judge from my posts is a reaction against this special treatment. Under the circumstances, many may judge it to be a very restrained and mild reaction......

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 May 06 - 10:26 AM

Sham, check again. I mostly only get judgmental with things like Gobson. I think I have only once ever previously posted anything critical of you. If I feel (as I do) driven to point out on this thread how much harm your work does to the Mudcat, please stop and ask yourself why. If you feel the need to respond to me on the issue, please PM me or start another thread to save further damage to this one, which does have the capacity to help save the Mudcat.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: JennyO
Date: 15 May 06 - 12:23 AM

I've often thought this before, and it's becoming really obvious again - the number of people who seem to post without actually reading what has been written before.

In light of that, I think it is worth repeating two things that Dick Greenhaus said back on the 12th May.

From: dick greenhaus - PM
Date: 12 May 06 - 03:19 PM

Just a couple of (I hope) unargumentative points.

If anyone wishes to make use of it, CAMSCO Music accepts VISA,Master and Discover cards, and will pass all contributions on to Mudcat.

This one is worth mentioning again for those who missed it, and Sandra and I are sending contributions this way. Thanks for making this available to us, Dick.

If there's a reasonably competent low-level programmer out there who's willing to spend some time--I don't think it should be a great deal of it--working with me, we can come out with a significant upgrade of the Digital Tradition (maybe 1000 new songs) in a reasonably short time. Please PM me if you have any interest.

A certain GUEST is studiously ignoring this and other observations about the DT being able to be downloaded to be worked on, because she'd rather keep shitstirring - never let the truth get in the way of a good rant, eh?

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:59 PM

Yes it is... I'm simply saying that it's standard view on other MBs....

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:56 PM

That's simple enough, CH, if you use the drop down menu's "Postings since last visit" as mentioned before.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:53 PM

" The name of the poster who STARTED the thread is mostly irrelevant, once the resident loonies hijack the thread!"

Agreed... And forums like I mentioned also tend to show "Last Post By" info...

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:28 PM

There is a blank spot top right on the Lyrics and etc. page. The address for checks and M. O.s should be there permanently as a reminder.
Haruo, I have matched your $50.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Haruo
Date: 14 May 06 - 11:06 PM

Thanks, Susan, I'll send it in. I just didn't have time to wade through 350+ posts looking for an updated address. I had promised to send $25 some months back but have not, so today I'm sending $50.

Haruo

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 May 06 - 10:50 PM

Haruo, Max said:

Our paypal account is: [e-mail] and is the preferred payment type for us. If you have hesitance to contribute through paypal.com, I certainly understand. You may also send checks or money orders to:

The Mudcat Cafe
PO Box 3006
West Chester, PA 19381

or

Camsco Music
145 Hickory Corner Rd.
East Windsor, NJ 08520

or

our UK and Australian friends who will hopefully post their information to this thread soon.

Non-US residents should not send foreign currency/checks/money orders to me. Bank fees make it a very poor method of contribution. Use paypal, work with our representatives in your country or convert you money before sending it.

~Susan

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Haruo
Date: 14 May 06 - 10:36 PM

So is

The Mudcat Café
PO Box 3006
West Chester, PA 19381

the correct place to send money to? I ask because several things on the How to Support Mudcat page are not current, e.g. Silver Satin Lingerie goes to some page that seems to be trying to sell me a server, and the MudcatMarket link is defunct.

Haruo

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 May 06 - 09:37 PM

Max: 12 May 6:30 PM "Clinton, maybe you should pack it in and move on too".

There's no maybe about it. And that's becoming progressively clearer.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:36 PM

""it's like a club and one expects to pay for club membership"

But it's not a club... it's a free web forum.... "

It IS a club, a bloody big heavy one used to bash people over the head with, it seems...


"until we open a thread we have no idea who has started that thread, unlike most other web forums that display "Started By" -
If we had such a display one could very easily elect to simply not open a thread started by someone who is, as labelled above, a trigger...."

The name of the poster who STARTED the thread is mostly irrelevant, once the resident loonies hijack the thread!

In the drop down box at the top of the threads page, you got 2 choices:

"Messages by date" & "Messages since last visit". Both contain the name of the poster of EACH message.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: skarpi
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:34 PM

Clinton , shamples,

Max,Mick and Joe are just a Men like me " nothing else "
their a not some kings like you think they are , I am not their " fan "
I am a friend to them as many others here on MC . Now you along
with few others seems to have nothing better to do but making troubles.

Shambles don´t you have any job ? you are here all day ?
what are you trying to proof ?
I have no idea what you are writing about, and I think many others
feels the same way.
Shambles I do not take part in thread like this many often
becouse I ignore them I hate fighting , but this has to stop this is like a cancer and it has be stopped.

I am gonna ask all Mudcatters who wanna be here in peace and wanna
be here for music, knowledge, wisdoms and friendship to ignore every post we get from a people who wants to start a war .....

this has to stop...........
Shambles I don´t know you , I have nothing against you
I belive you must keep a better man than this ......


This is the last post from me
All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:33 PM

" treats all posters equally"

All posters are NOT equal

d'uh

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: paddymac
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:33 PM

I apologize, even if only to myself, for becoming a multiple poster (if twice counts) on this thread, but I couldn't resist. Donning my Stephen Deadalus persona, I was bowled over by the simple wisdom and humor of Buck Mulligan's post.   

"On the internet, no one knows you're a dog" - but everyone can tell if you seem to be an asshole.

A classic. It seems to sum up rather nicely much of fluff that has accumulated around this thread.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:19 PM

Sham, I say with regret that you seem to be concentrating on technical arguments without regarding the burden of the fact that as far as I can see you are without supporters (save insofar as I say you have been a poster of merit on one issue where your compulsive attention to the subject was useful). I am sorry, I did not want to make such a negative post about you, but your repetition here has driven me to it.

Richard - I have not notice a reluctance on your part to join in with the personal judgements but what makes you think that I require any support from you or anyone else or suffer from the lack of it? Why not just ignore my posts and try to resist the temptation to pass needless judgement upon any of your fellow posters?

All that has to be done is to ignore the rest of the posts from other posters that are not to your tastes and not to post only to judge them or respond in kind to them and there will peace on our forum at last.

Being thought a popular poster has never been my wish. To work toward have a forum that finally recognised and accepted the realities, tolerates most tastses and treats all posters equally - will do. Even if I am generally considered to be the most terrible poster on our forum as result - mostly by those who have no idea why this should be but seem to ready to believe any groundless scare story..........

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:03 PM

Sham, I say with regret that you seem to be concentrating on technical arguments without regarding the burden of the fact that as far as I can see you are without supporters (save insofar as I say you have been a poster of merit on one issue where your compulsive attention to the subject was useful). I am sorry, I did not want to make such a negative post about you, but your repetition here has driven me to it.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 06:01 PM

Max, Mick and Joe might consider checking the functionality of other websites that host large memberships. Calorie King, for example,

*Smiles*

Big Mick is only a small fish.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:58 PM

"one MUST be willing to DO something to change it"

Agreed... and simply tossing $$ at Max obviously isn't doing something to change mudcat....

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Charmion
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:55 PM

Max, Mick and Joe might consider checking the functionality of other websites that host large memberships. Calorie King, for example, is a site for dieters that charges about US$40 per year for access to all its functions and services, which include personal food and health diaries, a blog and a massive database of nutrition information as well as a large web forum section, part of which is public and part open only to members. Calorie King forums have a button on every posting that allows members to alert the moderators to something bothersome in the message. This must be effective; people with body image problems and large amounts of weight to lose are among the world's most abused and confused individuals, but the Calorie King forums are models of topic focus and Internet etiquette.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:52 PM

It is difficult to see how there can be any justification for the accusation that what I post is so distracting to the main purpose of this site - for almost everyone posting in this thread now seems to claim that they either skip or don't read my posts.

In that case (and if they can be believed) we are at least halfway there..........All that has to be done is to ignore the rest of the posts from other posters that are not to your tastes and not to post only to judge them or respond in kind to them and there will peace on our forum at last.

And no excuse for any known or anonymous moderators to impose their judgement and abuse their fellow invited guests - in order to protct them from abuse.......

And as those who skip my posts won't be reading this - they won't ever find out that this was always (at least in part) pretty much the whole point.....

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: karen k
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:38 PM

I came to the conclusion many years ago that if one is going to complain or criticize something then one MUST be willing to DO something to change it. Plain and simply, those who merely critcize do not belong here and are not wanted here.

Max, thanks for all you do. I'll get something in the mail as soon as I can.

karen kobela

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:26 PM

"Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
They are vexatious to the spirit...."

Couldn't agree more. Too bad it is just such people who are running the place.

And then the faceless poster proceeds to be both loud and aggressive, and vexatious. (Probably one in a long series of a such posts, but since it's a nameless GUEST who can tell?)

It beats me. Do these people ever read what they write? (By "these people" I mean the begrudgers and the obsessive gripers.)

But then why should anyone bother to to read what they write either, that's true. Generally I skip over the nameless ones (and Shambles and Clinton too these days I'm afraid), on principle, but I thought I'd make an exception in this thread.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 May 06 - 05:17 PM

The degeneration of this thread is very sad. It becomes clearer and clearer that at least three posters on this thread really ought to go.

I have three proposals to assist in clearing out much of the offensive posting.


1. A convention (I can't see clearly how to enforce it) that posters should use their real names
2. Persistent "guest" posters be identified by real name if possible, but by an allocated name if their real names be untraceable.
3. Members be entitled to allocate a "black mark" to members (or identified guests) whose posts they find offensive or vexatious. The current number of black marks received in a three month period be recorded (with a member's information for members) and upon reaching a threshold the guilty parties be banned like Gibson.

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 May 06 - 04:55 PM

I have no issue with what Max has said here.... but his 'fan club' lays it on more than a little thick....

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 May 06 - 04:51 PM

Awwww.. poor little muffin... did someone say something that you mighta found offensive? Awwww... isn't that just oh so too bad.....

Clinton Hammond, at one time I used to think you had something interesting and useful to offer here. I was glad when you offered to do me a favor a couple of years ago when I was looking for an affordible Canadia medication source for my son.

But Clinton, put a sock in it. You just don't seem to get what Max is trying to say and every time you open your mouth you just make it worse.

SRS

Subject: RE: From Max: State of the Union Address
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 14 May 06 - 04:27 PM

"in what amounts to Max's home"
Hardly.... Or at least it sure doesn't seem that MAX thinks of it that way.....

"For that one remark"
Awwww.. poor little muffin... did someone say something that you mighta found offensive? Awwww... isn't that just oh so too bad.....