BS: Opposite But Good

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: freda underhill
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 07:40 AM

I have had some yo-yo perceptions of people here on Mudcat - yo-yo as in my idea of who they are and where they are coming from has sometimes moved from point A to point Z, or point Z to point A.

Whether here or "out there" I have some close friendships with some catters - some of whom are very different from me in many ways.

I feel very close to one mudcatter because i share their philosophy, the philosophy that comes through their comments on various threads. I also admire their capacity to argue and explain that point of view.
(no clues dropped AT all) i have played devils advocate with this person, and have never indicated my closeness to the views presented.

another catter has had a very similar life experience to me, and has so much understanding of where i'm at, because of that.

there are another couple of mudcatters who have a very different mind set to me - their logic and analytical abilities are akin to a computer. Despite the fact that I can indulge in mystical morasses on occasion, and they have a totally different way of looking at the world, and can come across as relentlessly rational, I admire these two catters for their integrity and commitment to the truth as they seek it.

the catters that delight me are people with wonderful senses of humour (some of them hang out in Hull, Maine, and the black Lion).

re Mr MG - I think to understand where Martin is coming from, check out austen tayshus

an australian comedian who is just as obnoxious as martin, and probably for the same reasons (scroll down to find a fascinating interview with Sandy Gutman, also known as Austen Tayshus)

why bother wanting to understand anybody, particularly a ratbag of the first order? well, that is the question of the century.

freda

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: gnu
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 06:53 PM

Yup. That too.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 06:02 PM

typically fucked up.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 05:56 PM

Typical.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 30 Mar 05 - 01:36 PM

No redeeming social value.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 10:48 PM

So why not just get it deleted. I don't care.

You would pull anybody's feeding tube , Guest. I don't put it past you. Tou will be happy when Terry Shiavo dies, I am sure.   Like I said, the guy who lost a kid is not better than Terry Shiavo's parents and I don't see anyone here with any sympthay for them. I hear they are also decent people.

But like the guy who lost his kid, he doesn't deserve any more pity for his tragedy. I'm not hanging out to judge your tragedies. Seems like most everyone here has one or is on anti-depression drugs.

Boo hoo. excuse me for being upbeat about life.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: JennyO
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 10:25 PM

And that's the last thing any of us should have to say on the subject.

That would be nice, then we could maybe get back to the original topic of this thread, which was NOT "What you think of Martin Gibson?".

It could have been interesting, but unfortunately, it seems to be heading down the slippery slope of personal attack towards deletion.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,Sleepless Dad
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 07:51 PM

And that's the last thing any of us should have to say on the subject.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 07:48 PM

If Martin hasn't learned that it's unacceptable behavior to make jokes about people in wheelchairs and the death of children then he isn't going to be able to learn it from us.

Instead - think of how much better the Mudcat would be if we all treated Martin like our own Terri Schiavo and pulled his "feeding tube". What if we NEVER responded to his posts good or bad ? He wants attention and he'll do ANYTHING to get it. He's really a very sad little man. Worthy of pity and not much else.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,Observer
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 06:58 PM

How one overcomes life's obstacles and tragedies is a test of one's character. Those who are indifferent to, or worse, those who sneer at those who have faced such difficulties should be reminded that life is uncertain. There may come a time when they desperately need the sympathy and support they have withheld from others.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 06:54 PM

Especially some of the whining. Having a tragedy in a life doesn't make them an expert on tragedys, or having perhaps a special exemption cornering the sensitivity market. It is not a priviledge, although it seems they think so. Sort of like, "I can't help it. I was abused as a child.

Except that the person you made that hateful and cruel comment to is one of the kindest, most compassionate, mature, and least whiny people in the Mudcat. And at the same time he told you his child had died in his arms, he also told you that his mother had died only a short while later. This is a person who would show you as much kindness as is humanly possible if you needed it, and if he could give it. But instead of showing him any compassion whatever, just to satisfy your sick little ego, you slapped him in the face as hard as you could.

You are a very sick man.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: gnu
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 05:42 PM

Typical.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 03:20 PM

Thanks to those who I have had good communications with through PMs and know it.

No thanks to Big Mick who is at this time quite a moron for making accusations. BTW, he called me a liar about the PMs I get which is obviously not the case.

I myself don't take everything here as honest truth just because they say it. Especially some of the whining. Having a tragedy in a life doesn't make them an expert on tragedys, or having perhaps a special exemption cornering the sensitivity market. It is not a priviledge, although it seems they think so. Sort of like, "I can't help it. I was abused as a child."

I don't look for the attention, but someone who mentioned that I laugh about it is completely right.

The guests who posted to this thread have very tiny testicles or had them castrated off, or wish they had some.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 03:08 PM

Looks like some folk, and worryingly mostly female are so insecure, they need to be liked by the bad guy! He has said some truly despicable things, intended to hurt in the sickest way.

Hope you enjoy your pm's. Do you have difficulty meeting nice people in real life? The answer obviously is yes, although you will be unable to admit to that eh?

Would you defend someone who said those things to a member of your family?

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:53 PM

Telling someone who is sharing their grief, having had their child die in their arms that they shouldn't have been taking so many drugs is vile. It's not just offensive, or nasty. It's far worse than all the toilet comments. It's just plain vile. Anyone who wishes to make excuses for that kind of statement should pause and reflect for a moment whether you want to condone that kind of treatment.

I don't.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:47 PM

I wasn't aware of that evil business where MG made such an unforgivable remark to someone who had lost a child. That certainly alters my opinion!

My usual reaction to his usual nasty name-calling, etc., is "sticks and stones will break my bones," etc.

I generally keep things pretty impersonal here, and so rarely have reason to take the exchange of insults any more seriously than the more high-minded exchange of ideas. I suppose I sometimes forget that some folks are dealing on a more serious and more personal level than I am, and I should have more respect and more awareness of their feelings.

Mea culpa!

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:12 PM

Well said and thank you Jerry. As one who has been targeted by both anonymous and named postings, I too, don't understand the attitude of some folks here. It makes me feel much better that someone else cares.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:04 PM

I'd like to say a word in defense on Big Mick. And question some of what is going on in here. There is this weird mind-set that when someone repeatedly insults you and attacks you in the crudest way that, if you finally get fed up and fight back, YOU become the culprit. I don't understand that. It seems like everyone is expected to take whatever abuse, no matter how vile (CarolC's example of the comment about a Catter who had their child die in their arms) and if they get hurt, or angry, they are being too sensitive, and shouldn't let it bother them. I also don't understand the attitude that says, "He's never said anything ugly to me," so I don't have a problem with him. As far as I'm concerned, when someone says something ugly and hurtful to another person, and they are hurt by it, it is not their fault, and I DO care that they've been hurt.

And, as far as Big Mick is concerned, he is Big in my eyes, even if he is five feet tall and weighs 90 pounds.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 01:49 PM

Maybe I wasn't explaining myself properly... I was responding to and agreeing with the latter half of this comment from BSLynne: "I think EVERYONE who posts here has some value, even the trolls and anonymous guests (who, by the way, I also think Martin Gibson is preferable to)" .

Some of the things Martin has posted have been quite erudite, whereas others have been insensitive, thoughtless, offensive and filthy. I'm sure everyone has posted at least two out of those in the past.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 11:25 AM

"need"?

Mom, is that you?

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 11:21 AM

The shame is the fact that I felt the need to make that post at all.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 11:19 AM

What a shame. This thread could have been the start of an interesting discussion if we could have stuck to the topic. Is it any wonder we have wars?

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 11:11 AM

It seems that the anonymous GUEST has a reading disability.

I said: he has always been civil with me.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,CarolC
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 11:11 AM

I think someone crosses a serious line of what ought to be tolerated in any sort of company when, upon being informed that someone's child died at birth, tells that person, "you should have taken fewer drugs". Or telling everyone s/he disagrees with in a discussion that s/he hopes all of their children will die. I consider that sort of behavior to be nothing short of monstrous. I leave it to others to guess whose posts I am talking about.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 11:03 AM

Well thats just pressed the start button for the rest of you guys to call the ladies on here anything YOU want - because thats exactly what THEY want - it appears they are turned on by it, how sad

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,JennyO
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 10:50 AM

For those of you who have decided to turn this into a Martin-bashing thread - if what you say about him is true, then he must be sitting back laughing his head off at all the attention he is getting. Was that what you intended? Anyway, just for the record, I have also exchanged friendly PM's with Martin. I may not like everything he has said to others here, but he has always been civil with me. I prefer to take people as I find them - and I usually find that I get back what I give out.

Mick, I was just reading another thread where you said "I simply am not going to respond to these folks anymore." Seems that this time you not only responded, but actually went looking for trouble. Sorry, but I think you are in the wrong this time. It was not necessary. As for you, nameless GUEST, who the hell are you anyway?

Now to get this thread back on track, the question that GUEST,walls&windows raises is an interesting one, and should be able to be discussed here without so much acrimony. I have real life friends who might not have the same views on politics, religion etc as me, but I think differences can give strength and add interest and fun to a friendship. The same applies here on Mudcat. After all, if we all agreed, there'd be no need for a discussion forum! And the world would be a pretty boring place.

Finally, the words of the song used as a handle by the person who started this thread, say it all.

And do you think of me as "Enemy" and could you call me "Friend"?
Or will we let our differences destroy us in the end?
The wall that stands between us could be a window too.
When I look into the mirror, I see you.


Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 10:20 AM

I agree. Liz and Lynne must not be reading the same threads as some of the rest of us. Some of his name-calling is quite foul, totally off topic, and meant solely to disrupt the conversation and upset the participants. He gets his kicks that way--and said so in a PM to me when I asked him about it one time. Just because he uses a made up name and isn't quite a guest, that doesn't make this any better than the anonymous trolling in which others partake. I've tried to give him the benefit of the doubt at times, but it doesn't seem to work, and it seems accidental when he makes reasonable posts to music threads.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 10:13 AM

You seem to have very short memories, he has posted comments that are pure unadulterated filth, and has attacked and made fun at the disabilities of others on this forum. If an individual on the street made any of the disgusting comments he sees fit to make at YOU, I could not see you accepting it or trying to make excuses for him. God help his children with this sick behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 09:30 AM

For once I agree... a name is a focus point for something (anger, revenge, hurt, pain, whatever), which is a great deal preferable than trying to pin down an anonymous guest, which is a lot like pissing into the wind.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,MBSLynne
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 07:55 AM

Once again, I find myself on the side of Martin Gibson. Firstly, he said nothing about receiving PMs saying how great he was as Big Mick mis-quoted, he said "Fine and friendly PMs". I've been reading the forum here for over a year now..perhaps something went on before that time that I don't know about, but though I find MG's reactions to disagreement and criticism are often nasty and over the top, and I sometimes see postings he makes that I don't much like, I don't think I've seen anything yet that in my view calls for the amount of hatred he seems to generate. I also often find that he says things that are perfectly normal and reasonable. I know at least two other regular posters whom I have much less time for than I have for MG but who don't get nearly the amouth of flaming he does. The posting he made on here first of all had nothing whatsoever about it to call up unpleasantness from others, but that's what it got...so perhaps it's not MG's fault at all and some other people should look at the way THEY are posting. Tolerance obviously doesn't come into it.

I'm just off to PM Martin Gibson. I don't need to PM you Big Mick, to say that MG has value and for you 'not to reveal my name' because I've said it quite openly. I think EVERYONE who posts here has some value, even the trolls and anonymous guests (who, by the way, I alos think Martin Gibson is preferable to)

Love Lynne

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 06:58 AM

Interesting that MG gets so much attention..both positive PM's and public responses to his negative attitude!
I suspect that people are curious if the vicious side of this person has a flip side...even if it is just subconsciously on their part.
More power to them for attempting to understand Him.
It is good to know however that when PMd they don't get told to F off.
Shame that this cordial behaviour is kept for Pms only.
Personally (and probably in the words of this person without the foul language and cutting insults) I myself have absolutely no interest in what this person has to say on any subject anymore.
That's the problem when someone, who most likey has a lot of good information and lapses of pleasant exchange, chooses only to present an offesive public persona a majority of the time....most people just flip that person off and figure it is not worth wading through the muck to get to the diamond inside.
I have read through his posts and the negative slurs far outnumber his educated responses.

Now back to the Thread which....is NOT about this person.
For a jerk he sure gets a lot of attention...but then that maybe the aim of his game.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 03:48 AM

Gibbon, don't get too over-excited about the PM's, they are trying to save you and understand why you live in a murky world of filth. You have a split personality and require help, up your meds. There are many good people on this forum and you are not worthy to lick there boots, you are a sick sad bastard who only does yourself and your religion great harm.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,Liz the Squeak
Date: 29 Mar 05 - 02:22 AM

A true friend is one who helps you bury the bodies afterwards......

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 06:43 PM

A friend is someone who knows all your faults but loves you anyway.

Can't even begin to list those people to whom that applies, but it's not short.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: GUEST,PoppaGator
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 04:55 PM

I've had several cordial PM exchanges with Martin Gibson ~ on musical, not political, topics.

For anyone who hasn't noticed, he and I disagree on almost every conceivable topic outside the realm of music. As regards MG's off-the-wall postings on politics, religion, and other sensitive areas, I generally disapprovce of his ad-hominem approach, but usually find his antics more amusing than offensive.

I'm sure I'm not the only one with this experience. I could name a few names of highly-regarded liberal-thinking 'catters who have testified to similar good "PM" relations with Marty, but I won't ~ that's up to them. (Also, I might be mistaken in one or two instances, and would hate to name anyone mistakenly.)

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 28 Mar 05 - 09:57 AM

I'm with you, sIx... even if it is off topic. I went to the University of Wisconsin in Madison and still enjoy visiting there when I go home to visit family. The only place I've found even better than Madison is Derby, Connecticut, where I live.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: number 6
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 10:40 PM

Madison Wisconson   ..... certainly is one good town. My favourite in the U.S.

sIx

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Once Famous
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:38 AM

Nothing vile, Big Mick. Just realize that you are a big man here in mostly your eyes, and in the long run, that doesn't say much about you.

3 hours north of here is Madison, Wisconsin.

A nice town. You are delusional at this point.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 11:25 AM

Life hasn't been the same since Spaw quit flinging so much litter in the bakyard with the faeries. Instead of being a bit tidier, it's all gone to muck!

A long time ago, two of the most emotional, heated arguments I ever had on Mudcat were with Joe Offer and Big Mick. For awhile I didn't think we'd ever reconcile, but I should have known better. We still may knock heads once in awhile, but there is no doubt in my heart of their friendship and boy! that is GOOD for my heart!:-)

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: gnu
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 08:53 AM

Speak up, Amos. I can't read you.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Amos
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 08:50 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: John Hardly
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 06:54 AM

Thanks, Mary and catspaw.

You're quite welcome, SRS and Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 27 Mar 05 - 05:47 AM

I guess it all depends on your reason for speaking.

"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 11:47 PM

Thanks, John.

It's always possible to stay friends with someone with whom you strongly disagree, provided the arguments are rational and fair and there is a good measure of mutual respect. As long as there is that level of discussion and exchange of information and viewpoints, who knows? Minds have been known to change.

Carry on.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 11:11 PM

With one usual exception, this is turning into a mutual admiration society. (But that's okay--a reminder of the mature appreciation of fellow Mudcatters is helpful on occasion.)

SRS

(That exception was not Bill S.)

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Auggie
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 10:21 PM

Away from cyberspace my life would get pretty dull pretty quick, Guest W&W, if I only hung with folks whose opinion's matched mine.

My favorite picking partner disagreed diametrically with me as to the existance of God yet I never spent a minute in his company that I didn't thoroughly enjoy. My best friend (excluding my wife) of 30 years has probably cancelled out every one of my votes-whether it was schoolboard candidates or Presidential politics-in every election since 1972.

As long as you can respect each other's divergent opinions, even as you challenge those opinions, differences need not be divisive.

Why shouldn't it be the same on Mudcat?

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 10:07 PM

I have not had really good cornbread in ages. And I don't think I have EVER had chitlins. (sigh) I did buy some yams the other day, having been reminded of them by an article or something I saw. Mmmm...good!

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 09:58 PM

And we have just gotta' work that one out!!!!

..........mmmmmmmm........spoonbread........

Spaw(:<))

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 09:46 PM

Spaw! You still owe me some spoonbread! I can be bought.

Subject: RE: BS: Opposite But Good
From: catspaw49
Date: 26 Mar 05 - 09:41 PM

Hey John Hardly.......I have always enjoyed you from the day you showed up here and I can always count on you for the good stuff that used to be the norm here.

And Mary.....I hope you change your mind or whatever it takes to kep you here. Don't make me come after you with a stick girl!!!

Spaw