BS: Popular views on McCain

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 20 Apr 08 - 02:44 AM

NYT Editorial:

"Senator John McCainÕs speech on taxes last week was widely seen as a stay-the-Bush-course pledge. Not true. Mr. McCain would dig a much deeper hole than even President Bush, exactly what the country does not need. Mr. Bush is already bequeathing his successor a government deep in debt, ill prepared to meet foreseeable challenges Ñ health care, road and bridge repair, alternative energy Ñ let alone emergencies.

Unfortunately, Mr. McCain has reversed his earlier passionate Ñ and correct Ñ opposition to the Bush tax cuts. He now calls for permanently extending them. He also proposes to repeal the alternative minimum tax. Those two proposals alone would reduce tax revenue by $1 trillion over four years.

His speech did not stop there. He proposed doubling the dependent exemption, to $7,000 per child, cutting revenue by $171 billion more over four years. He said the increase was needed to keep up with inflation, but the exemption has been adjusted for inflation every year since 1982. Then thereÕs his idea to suspend the 18.4-cents-a-gallon federal gasoline tax from Memorial Day to Labor Day. That would cost the highway trust fund $10 billion.

Mr. McCainÕs other big proposals Ñ to cut the corporate tax and make the credit for research and development permanent Ñ are fatally flawed by the fact that he offers no feasible way to pay for them. We do not doubt that Mr. McCain would try harder than Mr. Bush to cut spending. But his claim that he would offset hundreds of billions of dollars in new tax cuts by closing loopholes and cutting pork is just not credible. Pork spending, or earmarks, come to some $18 billion a year.

Mr. McCain has admitted that he does not know a lot about economics. But he should have no trouble recognizing political pandering, which is the only explanation for many of his proposals. To be taken seriously, he needs to go back to the drawing board and come up with a plan that shows how he would govern without adding to the fiscal damage of the past eight years...."

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Emma B
Date: 13 Apr 08 - 10:12 AM

please tell me isn't true......

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 06 Apr 08 - 06:32 PM

One of the disadvantages of having clinched the nomination ahead of the still fighting Democrats is, it gives 572 groups like MoveOn.org time to research the talking points of their attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 05 Apr 08 - 06:54 PM

For all the coverage this week of Senator John McCain's background, there are some important things you won't learn about him from the TV networks. His carefully crafted positive image relies on people not knowing this stuffÑand you might be surprised by some of it.

Please check out the list below, and then forward it to your friends, family, and coworkers. We can't rely on the media to tell folks about the real John McCainÑbut if we all pass this along, we can reach as many people as CNN Headline News does on a good night.

Click here to tell us how many people you can pass it on toÑand to see our progress nationally:

http://pol.moveon.org/mccain10/?id=12407-137503-O8bjk2&t=231
10 things you should know about John McCain (but probably don't):

1. John McCain voted against establishing a national holiday in honor of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Now he says his position has "evolved," yet he's continued to oppose key civil rights laws.1

2. According to Bloomberg News, McCain is more hawkish than Bush on Iraq, Russia and China. Conservative columnist Pat Buchanan saysMcCain "will make Cheney look like Gandhi."2
3. His reputation is built on his opposition to torture, but McCain voted against a bill to ban waterboarding, and then applauded President Bush for vetoing that ban.3

4. McCain opposes a woman's right to choose. He said, "I do not support Roe versus Wade. It should be overturned."4

5. The Children's Defense Fund rated McCain as the worst senator in Congress for children. He voted against the children's health care bill last year, then defended Bush's veto of the bill.5

6. He's one of the richest people in a Senate filled with millionaires. The Associated Press reports he and his wife own at least eight homes! Yet McCain says the solution to the housing crisis is for people facing foreclosure to get a "second job" and skip their vacations.6

7. Many of McCain's fellow Republican senators say he's too reckless to be commander in chief. One Republican senator said: "The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He's erratic. He's hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me."7

8. McCain talks a lot about taking on special interests, but his campaign manager and top advisers are actually lobbyists. The government watchdog group Public Citizen says McCain has 59 lobbyists raising money for his campaign, more than any of the other presidential candidates.8

9. McCain has sought closer ties to the extreme religious right in recent years. The pastor McCain calls his "spiritual guide," Rod Parsley, believes America's founding mission is to destroy Islam, which he calls a "false religion." McCain sought the political support of right-wing preacher John Hagee, who believes Hurricane Katrina was God's punishment for gay rights and called the Catholic Church "the Antichrist" and a "false cult."9

10. He positions himself as pro-environment, but he scored a 0Ñyes, zeroÑfrom the League of Conservation Voters last year.10


Sources:
1. "The Complicated History of John McCain and MLK Day," ABC News, April 3, 2008
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/04/the-complicated.html

"McCain Facts," ColorOfChange.org, April 4, 2008
http://colorofchange.org/mccain_facts/

2. "McCain More Hawkish Than Bush on Russia, China, Iraq," Bloomberg News, March 12, 2008
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aF28rSCtk0ZM&refer=us

"Buchanan: John McCain 'Will Make Cheney Look Like Gandhi,'" ThinkProgress, February 6, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/06/buchanan-gandhi-mccain/

3. "McCain Sides With Bush On Torture Again, Supports Veto Of Anti-Waterboarding Bill," ThinkProgress, February 20, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/20/mccain-torture-veto/

4. "McCain says Roe v. Wade should be overturned," MSNBC, February 18, 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17222147/

5. "2007 Children's Defense Fund Action Council¨ Nonpartisan Congressional Scorecard," February 2008
http://www.childrensdefense.org/site/PageServer?pagename=act_learn_scorecard2007

"McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion," CNN, October 3, 2007
http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/03/mccain.interview/

6. "Beer Executive Could Be Next First Lady," Associated Press, April 3, 2008
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5h-S1sWHm0tchtdMP5LcLywg5ZtMgD8VQ86M80

"McCain Says Bank Bailout Should End `Systemic Risk,'" Bloomberg News, March 25, 2008
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aHMiDVYaXZFM&refer=home

7. "Will McCain's Temper Be a Liability?," Associated Press, February 16, 2008
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=4301022

"Famed McCain temper is tamed," Boston Globe, January 27, 2008
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/01/27/famed_mccain_temper_is_tamed/

8. "Black Claims McCain's Campaign Is Above Lobbyist Influence: 'I Don't Know What The Criticism Is,'" ThinkProgress, April 2, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/04/02/mccain-black-lobbyist/

"McCain's Lobbyist Friends Rally 'Round Their Man," ABC News, January 29, 2008
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4210251

9. "McCain's Spiritual Guide: Destroy Islam," Mother Jones Magazine, March 12, 2008
http://www.motherjones.com/washington_dispatch/2008/03/john-mccain-rod-parsley-spiritual-guide.html

"Will McCain Specifically 'Repudiate' Hagee's Anti-Gay Comments?," ThinkProgress, March 12, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/12/mccain-hagee-anti-gay/

"McCain 'Very Honored' By Support Of Pastor Preaching 'End-Time Confrontation With Iran,'" ThinkProgress, February 28, 2008
http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/28/hagee-mccain-endorsement/

10. "John McCain Gets a Zero Rating for His Environmental Record," Sierra Club, February 28, 2008
http://www.alternet.org/blogs/environment/77913/

(From MoveOn)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 09:52 PM

"As far as I am concerned, Kerry was a decent guy who had his belly ripped open... by hyenas."


                  I agree. What happened to Kerry was terrible, but the people who did it still run the country and they haven't gone away. As soon as the Democrats decide on a candidate, they'll be right back out there with those despicable swiftboat people.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: theleveller
Date: 14 Mar 08 - 04:17 AM

Personally, I prefer his crinkle-cuts best - the straight ones just don't seem to cook as nicely.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:43 PM

As far as I am concerned, Kerry was a decent guy who had his belly ripped open, politically, by hyenas. I think the way that election went was a disgrace to thinking Americans and a shame in the eyes of the world. But, ya know, that;s just me.

Now, the thing about that campaign is the Dems had their eyes opened as to what hydrophobic jackals look like and what they will do; so I expect, after the bizarre media-slandering they wreaked on Kerry and Dean, that the Democratic party will be somewhat prepared. Whether Obama has learned from that history, remains to be seen; especially since his whole platform is centered on decency and thoughtfulness.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 10:48 PM

You have a point, Stranger. The Hillary campaign is not willing to launch the hard punches that the Republicans will gleefully throw. In the end, I think the Democrats would be much better off with Hillary.
                      But, as I'm sure you've noticed from recent events, every time the Hillary campaign takes a jab at Obama, they're labeled as RACIST by the corporate media, and that's the end of the digalogue.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: GUEST,Stranger
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 10:42 PM

We are a long way from the election, Amos.

Wait until the Rezko trial really kicks in. And people see and hear more and more of Obama's racist minister from Chicago. Don't forget Rev Al and Rev Jesse. They will be very much in the picture when it is all said and done. They are far from being ready and their egos are way too large to be dethroned in their "positions." All of this will alienate much more than you realize. Couple that with ordinary bigotry, racism, shallow experience, disenchanted Hillary supporters, moderate Democrats.

Remember how right you were about Kerry, also. Remember him? No one else does.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 10:24 PM

Small minority?

You aren't paying attention, Stranger.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: GUEST,Stranger
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:36 PM

McCain will easily win. The small minority in this country who thinks like the vast majority on Mudcat will never go along with Obama's extremist liberal views. That, and and there are more moderate Democrats than you realize.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:24 PM

And I thought Parsley was a leafy vegetable.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 11:00 AM

It's the ignorance that gets me. This crap about "our nation's divine purpose" is exactly the kind of blind-pig chauvinism that has started wars over and over. Why doesn't this allegedly educated human being know that? How can he stomach himself, knowing that he is literally shopping for slaughter, promoting hatred, and planning to bring about ruination to thousands of human beings? Who the fuck does he think he is, to commit such humanitarian crimes with impunity?

Gawd, the arrogance. I've been called arrogant, but he makes me look like a farm boy and a piker in comparison.   It is to puke.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 10:46 AM

Parsley has many megabucks personally and his congregation both locally and on TV has very deep pockets. From an influence standpoint he is probably the current leader of the pack......Very scary. The physical plant of his church and school is pretty significant btw........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:43 AM

Senator John McCain hailed as a spiritual adviser an Ohio megachurch pastor who has called upon Christians to wage a "war" against the "false religion" of Islam with the aim of destroying it.

On February 26, McCain appeared at a campaign rally in Cincinnati with the Reverend Rod Parsley of the World Harvest Church of Columbus, a supersize Pentecostal institution that features a 5,200-seat sanctuary, a television studio (where Parsley tapes a weekly show), and a 122,000-square-foot Ministry Activity Center. That day, a week before the Ohio primary, Parsley praised the Republican presidential front-runner as a "strong, true, consistent conservative." The endorsement was important for McCain, who at the time was trying to put an end to the lingering challenge from former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, a favorite among Christian evangelicals. A politically influential figure in Ohio, Parsley could also play a key role in McCain's effort to win this bellwether state in the general election. McCain, with Parsley by his side at the Cincinnati rally, called the evangelical minister a "spiritual guide."

The leader of a 12,000-member congregation, Parsley has written several books outlining his fundamentalist religious outlook, including the 2005 Silent No More. In this work, Parsley decries the "spiritual desperation" of the United States, and he blasts away at the usual suspects: activist judges, civil libertarians who advocate the separation of church and state, the homosexual "culture" ("homosexuals are anything but happy and carefree"), the "abortion industry," and the crass and profane entertainment industry. And Parsley targets another profound threat to the United States: the religion of Islam.

In a chapter titled "Islam: The Deception of Allah," Parsley warns there is a "war between Islam and Christian civilization." He continues:


"I cannot tell you how important it is that we understand the true nature of Islam, that we see it for what it really is. In fact, I will tell you this: I do not believe our country can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam. I know that this statement sounds extreme, but I do not shrink from its implications. The fact is that America was founded, in part, with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed, and I believe September 11, 2001, was a generational call to arms that we can no longer ignore."

---

This is great. While John Boy is not, at least, talking to God through his hair-dryer, he's got the next best thing--a loose nut-- to serve as a medium to the cartoon channel.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 07:27 PM

As a senator, he has the right to purchase the same health insurance that any other Federal employee can get. At the present time, the employee share of Blue Cross/Blue Shield, high option, family plan is $314.47 per month. They are the second payer after Medicare, which he would also pay for. I have no idea if he has any service-connected disabilities, which are required to qualify him for VA health care at his income level.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 06:32 PM

Pithy & erudite as usual.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: DougR
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:42 PM

Why don't all you Mudcatters who can vote(legally)write in Kendall on your ballot? I think Kendall and Bobert would make good P&VP candidates. They could run on the theme, "more federal dollars for folk music!" Probably win in a landslide.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 05:04 PM

That's the problem. In order for health care to work, it has to cover everybody.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:25 PM

Well, I think Obama's health plan does disallow certain, specifically identified, prior conditions, including:

Rampant militarism
Hypocrisy in the public service
Trenchant running of the mouth
Loss of primary functional compassion

and a few others. On a case by case basis...



A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 12:04 PM

The way I've heard it described, he'd be rejected by Obama's health care plan as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 10 Mar 08 - 11:08 AM

From commentary in the Times on an analysis of various health-care positions of the several candidates:

"McCain's postion is ironically ludicrious.

(1) Due to his injuries in Vietnam, he has been entitled to care through the VA ever since.

The VA is government-run healthcare.

(2) As a US Senator, he recieves government-paid health insurance and care.

(3) As someone over 65, he is elgible for Medicare and should be enrolled in Parts A and B at least under Medicare's rule.

Medicare is government-administered health insurance.

(4) Given Senator McCain's history of health problems. if he went to purchase a non-group health insurance plan, he would be unable to do so in around 45-46 states. Those states allow insurers to reject applicants because of pre-existing conditions, age and a host of other reasons.

He has had government-run care, government-paid insurance and/or government-adminstered insurance with little or nothing in the way of deductibles or caopys basically his entire adult life. But he is enough of a hypocrite to announce that the rest of us should fend for ourselves against the sharks of the private health insurance market.

His hypocrisy on the subject leaves one a bit queasy. ..."


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:30 AM

Seven come eleven.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:13 AM

Anybody who'd make a hard prediction on this one isn't dealing with reality, I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 09:42 AM

Any organism can be poisoned by toxins, especially relatively young ones.

Let us see, though. I think hard predictions are a bit presumptuous.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:26 AM

Yeah, I think it would give him moral high ground against the Shiny and New Brand Name.

Clinton came from behind this week being outspent by Obama 2 to 1. Which is why I think Obama has peaked too early to win the general.

He can't even buy his way to victory. And isn't that a sad state of affairs?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:02 AM

Frankly, I don't see why he doesn't just go along with it. He's already clinched the nomination, and the 527 groups would be happy to pick up the slack.

                  If he did that, he could hammer Obama, assuming the Democratic nominee is Obama, over the head all through the general election for reneging on his pledge to use public financing.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 11:08 PM

From Howard Dean:

....Here's the background on the situation.


A few months ago, John McCain applied for and was approved to receive federal matching funds. Because he couldn't find enough people to fund his campaign, he was also forced to apply for a $4 million line of credit, which he secured by using the federal matching funds as collateral.


By taking the federal funding, he agreed to spend no more than $57 million until the Republican convention. But so far, his campaign has spent at least $49 million -- leaving him with less than $10 million to campaign with through September.


Now that he's won the nomination and has the support of the Republican lobbyist and special interest machine, he's trying to ignore that the whole thing ever happened. He recently wrote a letter to the FEC telling them that he was backing out, even though the FEC is very clear that any request to withdraw from the agreement must be approved; you can't just change your mind and take it back -- legally, you have to be given permission.


McCain isn't asking because he knows he'll never be granted permission, and he doesn't want to have to accept the funding restrictions he agreed to when he used the money as collateral for a loan. He's ripping a page right from George Bush's playbook: ignoring the laws when they aren't convenient and hoping no one will notice.


Stand up and show him that hundreds of thousands of people have noticed -- he can't change the rules in the middle of the game because he doesn't like how things are going for him:


http://www.democrats.org/McCainBusted


Using government programs when it's politically convenient and breaking the rules when it's not ... remind you of anyone?


Just like George Bush, John McCain thinks he's above the law. McCain poses as a reformer, but seems to think reforms apply to everyone but him.


Time to send him a message.


Howard Dean



------------------------------------------------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: kendall
Date: 04 Mar 08 - 01:59 PM

McCain vowed to "Get Bin Laden". Where have we heard that one before?
How many days since, Mission accomplished?
4 more years..............not with my help.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 10:38 PM

"Just a Closer Walk with Thee," in Reboks?


                His position on Jews is probably dictated by which position is bringing in the most money at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 09:10 PM

Gee, Dianavan, as long as his policies are good for Canada, those evangelistas down there don't make no never mind.
When you visit the States, just put a bobble-head Jesus peeking through the windshield of your car and they won't bother you.

Saw Hagee on TV the other night. He looks mighty well-fed. Those Texans must put real money in his begging bowl. Apparently the biggest amount of his cash rolled in during Bill Clinton's presidency. He built a plush little 500 bed resort in the Hill Country of Texas at the time. Just the place to walk your "I love Jesus" Reboks.

Apparently he is something of a whirligig. A couple of years ago he was in Washington with 3000 of his followers demanding that the Bush regime show stronger support for Israel. I have never heard his pitches, but if he now is downing the Jews, that is a change.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 07:50 PM

yer, right, Bobert. I'm not worried too much about the double-chin but its the lifeless eyes that bother me the most. I can't determine if he is full of fear, hatred or regret. None of which will make him a good President.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:29 PM

Well, not to mention that the guy is butt ugly...

B;~)

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 06:21 PM

McCains hard times have left him with a heavy case of scar tissue in point of view. He is jaded and looks at the world in a gimlet-eyed military man's manner, assessing all people as potential hostiles first, and pawns second.

We have a better model for looking at humanity at large.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 05:28 PM

As a Canadian, I would never hope for a win by McCain who has accepted an endorsement from John Hagee, the Texas evangelist.

Hagee hates the Catholic church, Jews, women, and Muslims, etc. He makes his living hating others.

Hagee supports McCain and McCain supports NAFTA.

Kinda makes you wonder or in Q's case, not.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 04:08 PM

Veterans who have 'slipped through the cracks' have been in the gutters after each of our wars. I remember the 'bush vets,' so-called, living in solitary hideouts in Hawaii after the Vietnam War, too traumatized ever to return to society. No one wanted to talk about them. In California, too, living rough. I have often wondered what eventually happened to them.

I always thought obscene the intensive American search for information on the few missing American MIA's when Vietnamese were looking for the hundreds of thousands of their own destroyed in that useless war.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: PoppaGator
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 03:44 PM

"Slew Ably?" All due respect, McCain got shot down and spent most of the war as a prisoner.

Now, I don't for one minute believe that his misfortune had anything to do with his relative competance as a warrior or, more specifically, as a pilot. Just dumb, bad, luck. Also, his unfortunate experience and his ability to survive through it speak well for him as a human person, and make him a credible opponent of the Bush administration's desire to legitimize torture.

There were plenty of GIs, many of them reluctant conscripts, who slew many more Vietnamese persons more ably than did John McCain. You can find some of them living under overpasses in every American city. Or perhaps you'd like to meet my friend Jane, who as a 17-year-old high school dropout earned a battlefield commission while racking up a record of 28 "personal kills" in Vietnam. Back then, of course, Jane was Eugene; (s)he is going through gender change at age 60 because, as a male, he was simply too screwed up, too mean and angry, to live.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Mar 08 - 10:34 AM

Keating 5.

please don't bring this up regarding McCain.

The bail out he helped get for the legislation to pay for (with tax dollars) all the money that was stolen via prior legislation to legalize stealing money by a priveliged few, should not be held against John McCain.

He was just obeying suggestions and racking in cash.

regarding Viet Nam...

McCain slew Ablely.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 03:09 PM

I quoted what was relevant to my reasons for questioning what had happened *again* to my post.

I was able to track back the post, as I wrote it, on my computer. But because I wasn't able to get back to a screen that showed it posted, I gave Mudcat the benefit of the doubt, and accepted there was a chance that the post didn't get through. However, as you well know Mick, I have good reason to be suspicious.

This is a problem of Mudcat's making, not mine, and I am certainly not the first person in recent weeks to complain of it happening.

You are, of course, entitled to believe whatever you like about my motivations. But it is my actions, not your second guesses about my motivations, that count here.

I tore no one down. I stated facts, and they were facts you yourself had to agree with, and I am willing drop it so long as nobody jerks my chain for their vindictive jollies.

I get that this is a one way street sort of forum. But it's one of your own heading the wrong way down that street, not me. I have been following the rules. One of the mods hasn't been. Only you mods know who that is.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Big Mick
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:22 PM

Ya know, Janet, just when I think we might have turned the corner and could get on with just good, solid, often controversial, but useful discussion, you come up with this, taking part of the quote and using to suit your own context. I think you must be showing your stripes here. Careful, your motivations are showing. You are convincing me that your real goal is disruption and that you take delight in that. Fair enough, but it won't be tolerated here. Your political insights are often hard edged, but provoke solid debate and thought. But when you start tearing the place down, and taking shots at folks that are attempting to keep it on a unique and even keel, and devoting their personal time to doing so, you are getting into turf that will give credence to those that just want to ban you.

So I will say this one last time. Stop attacking this place and the folks that are willing to give of their time to provide you an outlet. Websites like this one are not democracies, but this one allows a lot of latitude. It is not your right to do/say whatever you want here, but we give you more space than most. As long as you stay within guidelines, you will be allowed to post. Use a consistent handle, no personal attacks, and trolling for the purpose of disruption of the free flow of discussion won't be allowed. I can't speak for most of the mod's but I can tell you that I don't give a rats behind if you like the way we run it. If it's not to your liking, don't let the cyber door hit you in your cyber arse on the way out.

Now I would hope you would get back to the discussion of McCain. It is a good one.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 02:01 PM

Look, I wouldn't have asked in a completely different thread, if I wasn't pretty certain I had seen it post.

Here is, in part, Mick's response in that thread, confirming that my posts have been deleted for spurious reasons on a whim by one of the mods:

"You have recently had, as you well know, several posts reinstated that met the rules. Those reinstatements came with an explanation that restated the rules, which you quoted above."

Yeah, which begs the question, why were those posts deleted to begin with, if the posts were in full compliance with the rules?

I haven't gotten a satisfactory answer on that one.

Which is why I immediately suspected the same foul play.

I am willing to split the difference on this one today (and what other choice do we have anyway?), and say that it was a question of the post not making it through.

But the censorship is happening. I'm not the only one it has happened to, so there is apparently at least one moderator of this forum who is a bit trigger happy with either certain posters, or with certain content.

I don't expect we will ever hear the truth of it. "Homeland security" you know.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 12:51 PM

Every candidate has to start with the ground truth as it exists when he begins his plans, as well as he can ascertain it. What you call "empire" -- although it is commercial dominance more than traditional empire -- is part of the ground truth. But it is also true that the world is flattening out to a greater degree than ever before, with China, India, Malaysia, Taiwan, some parts of Africa, Japan, Korea, and Thailand all roaring to deliver goods to the US and Europe that were once miracle exports from the US and Europe.

The vacuum which we have balked at filling is the breakthrough innovational trajectory of new and better ways and products and systems. We have such deeply invested corporate dampers on our market that the cost of true innovation is almost stifling. Henry Ford could never do what he did, in today's legal and commercial environment; neither could Singer, or Maytag, who at one time peopled the planet with their manufactured devices, just for examples.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 12:43 PM

question- did you actually SEE it in the thread? Jeri says nothing has been deleted, and she generally knows. Sometimes posts just dont take.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:53 AM

Why was my last post just deleted?

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:46 AM

Canadians should strongly support MCain and his endorsement of NAFTA agreements with Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:30 AM

Well, if y'all like the last 8 years then vote for McCain... There is nho substanial difference between what Bush is doing now in terms of foriegn or domestic policies than what McWar is proposing... More tax cuts for the wealthy meaning big deficits and more costly war...

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:19 AM

Or Mrs. Clinton or Mr. Obama either. They're all stickin' w/the empire.

And why not? It's good to be the king.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 11:15 AM

There is no one in the world who would ever dream of attacking the USA if the USA and its big corporations would just leave the other people in the world alone!

That is what Mr McCain will apparently never be able to figure out.

Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Amos
Date: 02 Mar 08 - 10:55 AM

Frank Rich does a good job of exploring John McCain's inner Hillary.



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Subject: RE: BS: Popular views on McCain
From: Riginslinger
Date: 01 Mar 08 - 11:28 AM

"Now, Kendall - you know Reginslinger will be here in five minutes to tell us all that they did follow us home!"


                   The way I remember it, the ones who didn't follow us home from Vietnam were labeled "Boat People" by the media.

                   As far as Granada goes, there was hardly anybody there to follow us home in the first place. That's the way Reagan liked to fight wars.