New Ancient Ballads?

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 06:20 AM

Can I say that on a number of times I was invited to talk to young people in schools in London
I chose to take what I believed to be well-sung, accessible versions of songs, talk little about the song and play them
At now time was I ever able to follow up these talks, but the immediate response from a few of the listeners always left me with feeling that at least some of what I played and said cauuht the interest of some
You never try to please all of the people all of the time if you have any sense.
One of the most rmarkable afternoons we ever spent was when pat and I took one of our Irish Traveller singers, Mikeen McCarthy, to sing, tell stories at a school's event based around Travelling people
I was extremely doubtful that Mikeen, with his broad Kerry/Traveller accent would get through to a roomful of South-East London youngsters - (aged between 12 and fifteen)
The room was sewt quite formally a few rows of chairs, and more around the room - about thirty listeners in all
Mikeen launched into his first song, 'The Blind Beggar' (entered in the Stationers Register in the 1600s, so not exactly a chart-topper) - to a surprisingly enthusiastic response.
He talked about life on the road and told a story 'Go For the Water' - a tale version of 'Get Up and Bar the Door'
Gradually, the kids abandoned their chairs and aformes a large semicircle around Mikeen's feet
He continued like that, holding them transfixed for nearly two hours, then, when he finished, they clustered around him asking questions
Still gives a buzz of satisfaction to write about it.
You never know what effect you are going to get but please don't try to sll them something that's not what you tell them it is - there simply isn't any point
Whatever you decide, good luck
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 05:24 AM

"Surely the concept of what I want here isn't too difficult to understand."

It's not difficult to understand, but it's very difficult to satisfy. Mainstream modern pop music is such a world away stylistically from traditional song and balladic storytelling that it's hard to imagine any popular artist outside the more esoteric fringes making a go of it. The High Kings, mentioned above, are doing the same kind of thing as the Clancy Brothers were doing fifty years ago and, though it's great that Kristoffer has found a way into traditional song through their music, most of Mousethief's high school class would find them as alien as any Bob Dylan track.

I tend to agree with Jim Carroll here. Rather than look for a modern celeb to 'sell' the concept, you could try the approach of saying "just listen to this great story" and let the ballad speak for itself.

The suggestion of Anna and Elizabeth was a good one too. Although, again, kids raised on modern pop are going to find their sound pretty weird, they are young performers who mix traditional authenticity with a youthful desire to experiment.

We have to remember that, even in the days when Fairport Convention and Steeleye Span were attracting young audiences with electric settings of old ballads, they were still a minority interest when compared to 'chart' artists of their day. Young listeners have often been attracted to folk precisely because it's non-mainstream and a bit weird.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 05:17 AM

AS GOOD AS IT GETS HERE
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Reinhard
Date: 12 Mar 18 - 12:35 AM

Halewijn' Child Ballad collection is a wonderful resource for quite some years now; you may know it from its old place as the Child Ballad Data Base. But the revamping with its addition of the YouTube links makes it even better.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Deckman
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 09:38 PM

BILL D ... My Gosh ... what an incredible collection of music you have posted for us. I've listened to recorded songs, and singers, I never thought I'd hear again. Give your self a HUGE pat on the back here's a BIG thank you from me ... bob(deckman)nelson

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: GUEST,Kristoffer Ross
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 09:19 PM

Hey, Mousethief!
    Speaking as an 18 year old, how about The High Kings? I don't know of child ballads they've done, but they certainly fit the "other traditional stuff" category. I got very into them about 4 years ago, but my tastes seem to be turning back to the traditional roots, while they move further away. However, Memory Lane is still a darn fine album, even if not the most traditional style.
    Thanks,
Kristoffer

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 08:58 PM

Here's a fairly complete list of recordings of ballads... see if you recognize any artists the kids 'might' know.

https://www.childballadrecordings.com/all

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 08:02 PM

It Just occurred to me
I'm not a great fan of her ususal repertoire, but I would have no hesitation in sitting a group down in front of the film 'Songcatcher' and let them hear Iris Dement's stunning ballad singing in the Appalachian context
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 07:53 PM

Surely if you are trying to introduce youngsters to ballads you pick the best examples of the singing rather than seeking 'names' - seems an exercise in the futile to give them poor representations of the genre
The problem with all culture is that it is not enough to introduce people to i cold but to win people for it - some of us learned that one the hard way big time
Don't patronise youngsters by underestimating them
There are a growing number of young people here in Ireland who are taking up the songs without them having to be sanitized
The music has been guaranteed a two generation future by youngsters being introduced to it in the ray form - hopefully that can happen with the songs with a little thought
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: GUEST,RA
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 07:43 PM

How about the American duo Anna and Elizabeth? I don't think that they have 'charted' at all but they are great, also 'modern' as in contemporary and their new album is due to come out very soon on Smithsonian Folkways.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 06:50 PM

My criteria were not some kind of "gotcha" designed to frustrate people trying to answer the OP. I was trying to formulate basically "That my students will have heard and appreciated." That I can use as a springboard to bridge the gap between what they listen to on Spotify and what I want them to be interested in (the oooold stuff). (Sorry about the mixed metaphor.) Surely the concept of what I want here isn't too difficult to understand.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: GUEST,Rigby
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 06:11 PM

Richard Dawson performs quite a few traditional songs, though I'm not sure how many of them he has recorded.

Mind you, the music of Richard Dawson is something of an acquired taste for both old and young.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 03:20 PM

The OP asked have any modern artists done Child Ballads or other trad stuff. It then gave first charted in this century and would be known as examples of what type of things are being looked for. That doesn't mean some of the examples are totally irrelevent so it'd be a crime to mention them. Both Roberts and Mitchell are young and perform said material so whilst they don't hit the OP criteria in some respects they do in others. Of course they are not well known outside their genre but just because kids don't know about them it doesn't mean they shoudn't or couldn't! If we're talking specifically pop/rock artists then for really young kids even really recent performers are old news. The nearest I can think of just off the top of my head would be Natalie Merchant who did a folk album with some trad songs on it including "The House Carpenter's Daughter" and "Wayfaring Stranger" though her solo recording career started in the mid-90s so not quite within the time frame. But let's face it for very youngs kids Natalie would even be a fogey - so even we're talking solely people who are in the pop charts at the moment then yes it is a pretty barren field. There is Rhiannon Giddens of the Carolina Chocolate Drops who have charted in the US album chart be it the lower reaches and to be fair any folk artist who has charted is probably going to be in the lower reaches. So do we mean big international pop stars who sing trad songs - then it is going to be pretty slim pickings. Perhaps Susan Boyle but she'd be as relevant to young kids as Alexander Armstrong would be.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 01:54 PM

Ok, guys, I know this is a folk forum, but sometimes I think that people here are a bit unrealistic about the reach of the genre, and the artists who perform in it. There is no way that the average British 16 year old will have heard of Alasdair Roberts, and although I stand to be corrected I suspect that there is no way that the average American 16 year old will have heard of Anais Mitchell. Folk is a niche, and not one that teenagers in general inhabit. The original post asks for artists who charted this century, and those operating in the folk niche won't have. Nic Jones never even charted for goodness sake. I don't think that Bert Jansch did. Fairport convention got to number 21 with a French translation of a Bob Dylan song. Steeleye Span were a bit of an exception, they had two chart hits, one a medieval carol, and the other a song from the 1820s (so semi-traditional).

The OP asked for 21st century chart artists who had covered traditional songs. I can still only think of Ed Sheeran. Sure, 50 years ago there was Bob Dylan, and sure, he still records, but the only traditional stuff on any of his 21st century albums is Christmas Carols.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 12:37 PM

Alasdair Roberts has recorded quite few.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 10:44 AM

Nirvana is oldies to these people. They were all conceived ten years after Cobain died.

Really?

So what do they think of Anais Mitchell?

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 10:04 AM

I realise I am a serial complainer, but I'm afraid I find very little of the modern British renditions of traditional ballads particularly inspiring - for me, I find them 'performances' rather than interpretations for me, ballads are stories that happen to have tunes rather than vehicles for tricksy instrumental displays.
Would be delighted to be proved wrong
I find myself re-playing the old collections - the Riverside series, the early Folkways stuff, The Long Harvest and particularly 'Blood and Roses' if I want to remember what ballad singing is about - the traditional collections like 'The Muckle Sangs' still give a buzz though!
Ireland was never particularly noted as a source for Child Ballads, but the late collector, Tom Munnelly, counted 50 of them as being still extant among the older generation right into the 1980s - some of them rare survivals that had disappeared elsewhere in the English-speaking world - Traveller, Martin McDonagh's 'Lady Margaret' (Young Hunting) remains for me one of the finest example of traditional ballad singing I've ever encountered.
Many of these can be found on the recently re-released 'Early Ballads in Ireland 1968-1985'
A few years ago a Wexford Couple, Aileen Lambert and Mick Fortune, got the suppoort of the National Library of Ireland and organised a number of of lunchtime concerts throughout Ireland entitled, 'Man Woman and Child' - it worked wonders in reminding Ireland that it had a rich tradition of ballad-singing - it's no longer uncommon to hear them sung arounfd nowadays
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: mousethief
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 09:57 AM

Nirvana is oldies to these people. They were all conceived ten years after Cobain died. Bob Dylan might as well never have existed. I have the Anais Mitchell CD -- isn't it lovely? I'm afraid these "modern" artists have abandoned the classics entirely. :(

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 11 Mar 18 - 09:23 AM

Nirvana, 'In The Pines'.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Roz
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 10:55 PM

Anais Mitchell recorded a whole album of them in 2013, and the lead singer of Fleet Foxes released a version of The False Knight On The Road a couple of years ago, too.

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 05:48 PM

Do any of your kids know who Bob Dylan is? If so, here's a list of 20 songs he "wrote" based on Child Ballads:

Go to www.sffmc.org and click on "folknik online", then on "current issue". Scroll way, way down to the bottom of the page and voile.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: New Ancient Ballads?
From: David Carter (UK)
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 02:13 PM

Ed Sheeran has done the Parting Glass, which isn't as far as I know a Child ballad, but it is Roud 3004. Alexander Armstrong has done it too, though he isn't mostly known as a singer.

Subject: New Ancient Ballads?
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Mar 18 - 01:42 PM

Have any of the "modern" (like, first became popular (charted) in this century) artists done any Child Ballads or other traditional stuff? I'm a high school teacher and would love to point to someone my kids would know.

mt
o..o
=o=