BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 11:21 AM

Until London has beautiful hills & valleys there will never be equality.

I'm glad I live in Wales!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:37 AM

The non stop Doncaster to Kings Cross I occasionally catch in a morning does it in 100 mins, just over an hour and a half.

The west coast and Midlands routes are slower, and although I live near Doncaster now, so it is easy, I used to live in Derbyshire. I used to drive from near Chesterfield (which has trains to London...) to Retford to catch an East coast line train, as the 6.50am from Retford got in at about the same time as the 5.35 from Chesterfield.. I believe it has got a little better recently mind...

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Stu
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:32 AM

So rich people can get to London fifteen minutes quicker!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 31 Jul 13 - 06:12 AM

Given that Virgin Trains claim a London to Manchester journey time of 2 hours and 8 minutes, why the need for HS2?

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 08:53 PM

It's quite a bit colder up there.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Musket smiling
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 04:02 PM

Aye Don. When the Geordie miners came down to work at our pit, the homesickness was worthy of a bit of ribbing.

In the electricians shop on the surface there was a photograph of a whale. As most of our lot went fishing, the caption said it all..

"Oop North roach"

I suppose, thirty odd years on I can admit I wrote it.

Mind you, having lived and worked at both ends, the beer was better at our end. I got by with my Collins English Geordie Geordie English phrase book. When the Barnsley lads came, I had a Collins English Dee Dah Dee Dah English phrase book.

Happy days.

Till the f*cking strike that is.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Penny S.
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 03:45 PM

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 01:51 PM

The song "Roben's Merry Men", about colliers having to move from Tyneside to Nottinghamshire, has the immortal couplet:-

"You'll have to change your language, lads
You'll have to change your beer"

Of course, this applies in the other, geographical, direction as well!

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 30 Jul 13 - 01:07 PM

Just goes to show what the government thinks of the north

Fracking should be carried out in the North East of England, where there are large, "desolate" areas, a former energy secretary has said.

Lord Howell of Guildford argued there was "plenty of room" for developments and less concern than was the case over "beautiful natural areas".

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 05:55 AM

They might well want to go and live there, stu, but the 'northerners' must remember not to be snotty to them and dismiss them as 'bloody southerners', which sometimes happens, unfortunately. The North/South Divide is deeply ingrained, and has existed for centuries. It includes accent, (the delineation of which changes quite startlingly across an invisible but identifiable line) hardiness, thriftiness, attitudes to sentiment (eg Billy Elliot) climate and geographical differences (eg big hills!) agriculture, diet and all sorts of character differences, which are generalisations but nonetheless quite evident. Southerners would have a lot of adjusting to do if they settled 'up there'.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Stu
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 04:59 AM

Since when has it ever been equal? The south-eastern part of the country has had a disproportionate influence over the rest of the isles since the Norman invasion.

That so many people outside of England conflate London and the south-east with the rest of the country displays their own ignorance; anyone in the midlands, the south-west or the north will put you right.

The skew towards London-based stories in the press is always depressing, and the media bubble that exists within the M25 and spreads it's odious influence into the surrounding counties means much of the news is south-east based. Boy, don't we know it when they have snow down there! It could have been on the ground and cutting off villages for weeks up here and not a toot on the news.

Anyhow, my main concern about HS2 is that the south-easterners will discover that the rest of the country is beautiful, interesting and full of character and might want to come and live here.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 04:49 AM

Of course that evidence is limited.

Limited by the fact that it doesn't yet exist.

What would have happened to northern prosperity, if a self styled "think tank" had said "Evidence that Arkwright's machine would promote economic growth or tackle the north-south divide is limited", and been believed?

There is always some self confident "expert" Jeremiah, who will proclaim till the cows come home, his belief that whatever is proposed won't work.

These types are almost universally proved wrong.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 18 Jun 13 - 01:48 AM

A report suggests that HS 2 is not the problem solver the government would like us to belief, also suggesting it will not assist the North

Demand for the HS2 high-speed rail project has "likely been overestimated", a think tank has said.

A report from the New Economics Foundation (NEF) also said the £33bn cost does not offer value for money.

Evidence that HS2 would promote economic growth or tackle the north-south divide was "limited", it added.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Jun 13 - 10:47 AM

"It seems living in the UK is no longer equal"

It never was, and never will be.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 03:03 PM

In the late forties my father moved from Tyneside down to Middlesex because the South offered far more in the way of opportunity and economic growth than the depressed North where shipyards closed and heavy industry died. He did very well. On visiting our Geordie relatives I was shocked even as a young girl at the difference in our standards of living. So it isn't a new thing.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer equal
From: selby
Date: 13 Jun 13 - 10:09 AM

To lift a direct quote from the Archbishop of York Dr John Sentamu commenting on Museum closure threats

"A country which forgets its heritage becomes senile."

Speaking about a north-south economic divide he also said: "Too often we are seeing communities across the north of England bearing the brunt of the economic downturn. We need to see a level playing field."
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 03:57 PM

Forgot the Museum of Science & Industry (Liverpool Road) in Manchester. So there are actually four major museums at some level of risk.

How long before an apparatchik floats closure of the Bradford museum and transfer of some of the exhibits to the BFI on the South Bank? Sorry, just stirring.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: GUEST,Musket sans Ian
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 03:52 PM

Museum (noun) Place that recreates for fun the industrial reality we call our heritage.



You know, this pinot seems to be depressing me rather than making me put a traffic cone on my head. ....

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 03:30 PM

All free museums try to get people to make donations, and always have.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 02:16 PM

Re the northern museums, I presume these are the National Railway Museum, its outstation at Shildon, and the National Media Museum. I think this is mostly kite flying, but maybe the Bradford museum is vulnerable. The NRM is already begging for donations at the entrance.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 01:24 PM

"How is it that the Welsh and Scottish people can have devolved Government's and yet have their MPs vote on issues that their parliament's have decided to go the opposite way to the UK government"

The English of course should have a devolved parliament if they want it. The Scots and Welsh are the wrong people to have a moan at about inequality within England though. It's not productive. The truth of the matter is taking away Scottish and Welsh members from the equation would leave the present govt with a larger majority not a smaller one - and in the previous Labour govt's that said party had a majority within England itself too. There is a potential democratic deficit at the moment but no actual sustained deficit. In fact since the devolution settlement it is still the Scots who have lost out more often democratically. I think there was at most under Labour no more than a couple of times when non-English votes made any difference. On the other hand the Labour Party put about 60 devolved measures through Westminster instead of Holyrood by the use of the so called Sewel Motions. saying that I agree that a fully Federal solution would be much better than the current half baked one but that too would largely need English support to come about.

If there is an imbalance within the English regions then it is for the English themselves to sort out. There certainly didn't seem to be much support for Regional Assemblies when that was mooted by Labour. An English parliament would make sense but what is stopping that being just as London biased as many view the current parliament to be. Some might argue that the Scots, Welsh and Irish members help make the current parliament less centralised than it would perhaps be without them!

Funny though that the modern state for the bulk of its existence has had devolution. Stormont was only ever suspended. No-one moaned about a West-Belfast Question. Even in this thread it was only the Scots and Welsh who were picked out.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:55 AM

""Sorry Manitas as I see it is to get people into London as a commuter route, it is not about work up here
Keith ""

As far as I know they will be running trains in both diretions. If companies pick up on the fact that almost everything is cheaper up North, they'll go where the work force is.

If not, Mancunians will be able to commute to London and compete for the few jobs available down there.

Do you guys still believe that crap about the affluent south?

You should try it sometime, and find out what it costs for everything from basic foodstuffs to property.

There are people in London who have to pay council tax higher than a northern householder's mortgage payments.

Another man's grass may look greener, but you have to take into account what he pays for seed, fertiliser and even water.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: selby
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 08:39 AM

Sorry Manitas as I see it is to get people into London as a commuter route, it is not about work up here
Keith

Subject: RE: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 07:14 AM

And there was I thinking that HS2 was for getting people up to Manchester quicker rather than for draining trade down to London!

Subject: BS: It seems living in the UK is no longer e
From: selby
Date: 12 Jun 13 - 06:39 AM

It seems living in the UK is no longer equal. The Museum group which looks after ALL national museums is in potentially financial difficulty the first thing the chairman of the group suggests one of 3 museums in the north will have to close, not one of the museums in the group, why not close the science museum in London and put all our efforts into Manchester. As far as the government is concerned us up north are worthy of nothing the HS2 designed to get people into London when the money would be better invested getting real jobs for real people in the north.
How is it that the Welsh and Scottish people can have devolved Government's and yet have their MPs vote on issues that their parliament's have decided to go the opposite way to the UK government. Is it not time that we the English had a vote to break away from Scotland and Wales and have English devolution or one step further the North break away from London. For the people down South for us in the North it is grim and no longer an equal country.
Keith