Obit: Muhammad Zaoul

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 02:24 PM

Sorry for that last sentence, Abraham. Strictly outraged that MG would put words in my mouth (read the thread). I do not hate Jews, but I do hate the image presented by MG. I am not sure what part of my statement you would consider bigotry. Can you explain? Thanks.

d

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Abraham Foxman
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 08:52 AM

Are you sure you're Jewish? I'm sure most Jews would not want you representing their views and opinions. I was not raised in the Jewish faith butI do have a Jewish last name. A very old Jewish name. Somewhere, somebody in my family decided not to be Jewish anymore. They probably met too many like you and decided exogamy was a better choice.

Without making excuses for Martin Gibson and any bigotry on his part(yes, Jews can be bigoted too), the above statement is offensive, anti-Semitic and the work of someone whose bigotry is at least equal to that of Martin Gibson.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 02:26 AM

Thank you Clint!

Its really hard to ignore him. Its also hard not to sink to his level when replying. I have a few names I would like to call him but I know he thrives on negative attention. The only reason he continues to post is because he's a sociopath. At least he can vent here. Its scary to think of what he might be capable of in the real world. He's so full of ignorance and hate. Its best to leave people like that completely alone. As my dad used to say, "Give him enough rope and he'll hang himself."

d

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 12:25 AM

You have to understand Martin G. He's a simple control freak. He wants to make you do something, and he doesn't care what as long as he gets to feel in command.

He cannot make you agree with him, or like him, but he can make you feel annoyed, so that's what he tries for. If he's lucky and you feel sad or angry, he feels powerful.

He's the kind of person who is always late. He can't make people come early but he has the power to make them wait, so that's what he does.

You cannot talk reasonably with him because he doesn't have any convictions; he just wants to win. He admits it.

He has nothing of value to say.

clint

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 10:27 PM

I had a good day today, Martin. I got a lot done. My joints are feeling a bit sore from some of the heavy lifting I was doing, but it felt good to be accomplishing things that needed to be done. The weather was lovely and the full moon was shining through the leaves of the live oak trees while I was playing my accordion this evening.

Thanks for asking.

(P.S. I never try to outsmart you, Martin. There's just no challenge in it.)

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 09:31 PM

I love it!


Take a step back and look at how hopped up you both get. I assure you, I am not losing any sleep over it! It's actually quite funny.

Boo Hoo! He called us names because we are women! Yeah, sure, right. That is just so typically feminist. I assure you, I do not care what type of genitalia you have Carol C., dianavan, and now matai whoever you are.

Carol C.: I am so glad you are stuck down their in rural Alabama spending hours of your time on a website just trying to outsmart someone with a made up name (but not a made up religion). You really should get with it and watch those NASCAR races with that group over in the next trailer.

You really need to get a life.


Signing off for tonight. Back to reality and my loving wife. Your real world on this forum is just escapism for me.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: matai
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 05:12 AM

Just a little observation here. It becomes a sexual war. Some macho guy who hasn't read or listened fully,jumps down the throat of a woman who's argument has offended his sensibilities. Women line-up to back their fellow woman and the macho guy resorts to abuse. Most of the other blokes retreat to the sidelines or introduce new threads. Well that's how it comes across to me. I wonder if it would be different if it was mostly women involved in the physical acts of war? It seems that men have something to protect when discussing acts of war because historically it has been a way of projecting their heroism. I'm not saying that this applies to all the men here but I'd suggest most have difficulty with it, especially when the attacks become personal and are aimed at women.
Matai

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 07:22 AM

It's called 'The Straw Man Fallacy', Walking Eagle.

They're very good at that here...

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 02:50 AM

You're right, dianavan, they're not. Here's a letter from some of the Jews (Israeli Jews) who aren't like Martin, to Ariel Sharon:

12-th Graders' Letter ('michtav shministim')

The letter below was written by a group of Israeli youths (aged 15-18), declaring their intention to object to participating in the atrocities committed by the Israeli army. It is a so called 'michtav shministim' (twelfth-graders' letter). For those of you who live in Israel or used to live here the term would be familiar, as three such letters (in fact, three letters with a much less clear phrasing) sent by youths in the early 70s and late 80s received great media attention and started major public debates.


August 19, 2001
To: Prime Minister Ariel Sharon

We, the undersigned, youths who grew up and were brought up in Israel, are about to be called to serve in the IDF. We protest before you against the aggressive and racist policy pursued by the Israeli government's and its army, and to inform you that we do not intend to take part in the execution of this policy.

We strongly resist Israel's pounding of human rights. Land expropriation, arrests, executions without a trial, house demolition, closure, torture, and the prevention of health care are only some of the crimes the state of Israel carries out, in blunt violation of international conventions it has ratified.

These actions are not only illegitimate; they do not even achieve their stated goal - increasing the citizens' personal safety. Such safety will be achieved only through a just peace agreement between the Israeli government and the Palestinian people.

Therefore we will obey our conscience and refuse to take part in acts of oppression against the Palestinian people, acts that should properly be called terrorist actions. We call upon persons our age, conscripts, soldiers in the standing army, and reserve service soldiers to do the same.

Haggai Matar
Amir Melanki
Nave Avimor
Shani Werner
Neta Zalmanson
Ya'el Aydan
Yair Hilo
Ra'anan Forschner
Michal Bar-Or
Matan Kaminer
Guy Arnon
Yosi Bartal
Reut Katz
Rotem Yaniv
Yemima Fink
A'lmah Yitzhaki
Ya'el Skilevski
Amir Zemer
Asaf Shtul-Trauring
Yonathan Zvik
May O'mer
Spiltzki Lihi Rothchild
Yoni Cohen
Emily Ya'aqov
Nitzan Shlush
Uriah Oren
Avi Ya'aqov
Yigal Rosenberg
Tali Lerner
A'di Sneider
Asher Shechter
Uri Brahav
A'mit Stark
Yuri Ronen
Stav Bar-Shani
Daniela Freund
Gali Rabinovitz
Yoni Ben-Dor
Shira Gertner
Uri Shamgar
Itamar Ben-Zaken
Roy Golan
Ya'el Polak
Re'ut Ben-Zur
Itay Greenstein
Ziv Kraus
Alon Elkin
Noa Levi
Tal Paz
Idan Hadash
Jacky Levi
Tzofit Kommemi
Maor Heumann
Gil Kremer
Elad Or
Gilad Itamar
Tia Levi
Yuval Kojman
Fracesca Katz
Merav Melamed
Alon Kess
Aya Michlin

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 01:56 AM

Marty: For sure, physically! Mentally? I'm more experienced, wiser and far less impulsive. Where did you learn to be such a bully? People are not born this way. It is learned.

Are you sure you're Jewish? I'm sure most Jews would not want you representing their views and opinions. I was not raised in the Jewish faith butI do have a Jewish last name. A very old Jewish name. Somewhere, somebody in my family decided not to be Jewish anymore. They probably met too many like you and decided exogamy was a better choice.

Does anyone know this guy or is he an invented personality? Maybe he is a neo Conservative who is using this evil, twisted, obnoxious personality in an attempt to make us hate Jews. I know I've said this before but I have to ignore this guy because he feeds off negativity. I don't think anyone should give him anymore energy.

Don't believe it. Not all Jews are like Marty. Thank God!

d

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 11:02 PM

dianavan, now look who's calling names. I am far from frightened and frustrated. But I am a kid at heart. Have a lot of toys, too.

You lost your youth obviously years ago, mentally and for sure,physically.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: dianavan
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:04 PM

Marty, Marty, Marty,

When are you going to stop calling people nasty names? Don't you know it is a form of abuse? You might be taken a little more seriously if we didn't know that you are really just a frustrated, frightened, insecure kid.

d

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Amira from Brooklyn
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 03:10 PM

Martin Gison tells me "Sorry, Amira, your people have a lot to learn about being civilized." Are those words written by a Brit? By a Yank? By an Irishman? I don't know, but I can say this -- we ALL have a lot to learn about being civilized. His singling out the Arab people as somehow uncivilized is most certainly a case of someone who lives in a glass house throwing bricks.

As far as his misogynist, homophobic remarks are concerned, I believe Janice can answer for herself if she cares to. I will say, though: trying to understand the motivation for acts of violence is not the same as endorsing those acts of even apologizing for them. Can we not understand the desparate, violent, and ultimately self-destructive acts of the Jews at Masada? Do not the Israelis bring their children to Masada to celebrate those acts? Ancient history, you say. OK, what about Jim Bowie and Davy Crockett at the Alamo? What about Nat Turner and John Brown? What about Pearse and Plunkett and Connolly in the Easter Rebellion? History is replete with examples. Who is to say what is an act of a heroic patriot and what is "the act of an insane idiotic terrorist"?

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 05:12 PM

Janice in NJ

Well, your words. I wouldn't waste my time kissing your big, fat, commie, dyke ass.

It's way too smelly. I'll leave that to your partner.

Self destructive desparation? It was the act of an insane idiotic terrorist, butch.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 05:04 PM

And the trolls win again !!

If I had my way - any political thread started by a guest would be deleated. All we end up doing is rehashing the same old crap.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 04:57 PM

I should get real? Here's what Amira said: "What Muhammad Zaoul did was wrong. I cannot defend it and I won't, but I can understand it for what it was, an act of self-destructive desperation by one of my compatriots." Where in there are words of sympathy for terrorist acts? Am I so dense that I don't see them?

As far as the Tony Soprano remark goes... well hardy, har, har! Maybe I should respond by saying you can kiss my big fat commie dyke mick ass all the way from Upper Saddle River to Penn's Grove, but I'm too much of a refined lady to do something like that.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 03:56 PM

Janice in NJ?

You know Tony Soprano don't you?

A voice of moderation and reason? Hardly. Why, because she said so? Sympathizing with terrorist acts is the way i perceived the so-called voice of moderation & reason.

As Dr. Phil would say, "Get real."

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 03:42 PM

I'm still waiting for an answer to my first post. It is somethng that I've been wondering about. Perhaps Guest is getting his/her jollies (like Tar Heel admitted)in just getting folks all het up.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 02:01 PM

Before we do I would like to point out one thing. When Martin Gibson writes, "Sorry, Amira, your people have a lot to learn about being civilized," what he does is take a voice of moderation and reason and lump her together with the extremists. This is a very old tactic used by those bent on continued war and conquest. Do not fall for it. Neither the weakness of Amira's argument nor the appropriateness of her analogies is the issue. What is the issue is that people like her in both the Arab and Jewish communities need to be encouraged to speak out. They don't need to be squelched, unless what one wants is endless warfare.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 12:14 AM

Yes. One would think that. Now, shall we attempt to let this thread die?

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 11:33 PM

I would think having breasts and an accordian is kinda of like doing your own mammogram.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 10:10 PM

Nice try, man with two guitar names. I'va already posed nude with only my accordion for the Mudcat Nearly Nude Calendar. Twice. Got quite a few compliments on on those pictures, too.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 09:57 PM

Carol C.

I looked at your picture.

Please never wear a Tutu in pubic. I mean public.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 09:52 PM

You don't lend your cause much legitimacy by calling me a 'liberal Jew basher', Martin. Some people have even tried that tactic on Desmond Tutu, of all people. All you do when you use tactics like that one is to cause fewer and fewer people to take you seriously.

You should only find me threatening if your objective is supremacy over people who are not Jewish (and not much of a threat even then). If what you want is balance and justice, then I am no threat to you at all.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 09:37 PM

No, Naughty Natalie I did not start this thread. I am a Jew and I do enjoy yanking a few chains here because they are so easily pulled, but I do have my limits, believe it or not.

I do take very seriously the insanity of Palestinian terrorism and find no justification for it whatsoever. Believe it or not, I would love peace for all, but cannot deny the ignorance and insanity that by blowing one's self up in a bus full of people in the name of martyrdom to Allah that it will not ever be accomplished and rightfully so. You cannot reason with hate and chaos.

Now, why are you called "Naughty Natalie?" Actually that could be much more interesting to know that.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:55 PM

Carol C.

It's you who I find threatening. You are the scariest of the new liberal Jew bashers.

Amira from Brooklyn,
you will never justify why Palestinians are ignorant enough to blow themselves in the 21st century by spouting things that happened to Egyptians during the first Passover.   Self-destructive patriotism? How about insanity? Sorry, Amira, your people have a lot to learn about being civilized. Very weak arguement.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,naughty natalie
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:44 PM

did martin gibson start this thread?

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 05:33 PM

I normally don't bother to respond to trolls, Walking Eagle. I don't feel a need to fight with anyone either. But there are misconceptions about the Middle East that are promulgated with regularity here in the Mudcat and in the US generally, that I feel compelled by my conscience to respond to. I find that when I do that, I become the target of ad-hominem attacks. I don't expect that to change any time soon.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 04:57 PM

Would someone read my above post and offer their opinion?

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 03:51 PM

The Palestinians are entitled to the land that either Israel gives 'em or they can fight to win.

And what, in your opinion, makes it Israel's land to give?

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,'SYOM
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 03:39 PM

I don't make a habit of responding to threads initiated by Guest trollers, so here's one back:

The entire problem stems from the assumption that Palestinians have land.

A document from the Turkish empire doesn't bear entitlement to land after Turkey lost control before the passing of two world wars and three Arab Israeli wars.

The Palestinians are entitled to the land that either Israel gives 'em or they can fight to win. At present they have been fighting to win and with a little help from the world community and people like GUEST who trolls, maybe they will.

If they want to bleat about Israel choosing to defend itself, it's so much hot air.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 03:29 PM

Just a question here folks, nothing to get excited about. I wonder though, when someone posts a subject that might be considered a troll, why we start to fighting amongst ourselves? I'm not asking with any meaness or wrath, just an observational question. Why do we all jump in feet first, ready to go a few rounds?

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 01:16 PM

Whether or not my original post in this thread was sarcastic, satiric, or the work of a true believer, is irrelevant. The actual facts were accurate and appeared in virtually every mainstream news outlet.

The following paragraph is from Arabicnews.com and reflects the same sentiments as my original post.

Al-Aqsa group of the Fatah movement announced in a statement responsibility for the operation. The statement said that "Muhammad Zaoul (20 year old) from Housan village, Bethlehem district carried out the martyrdom operation." The statement added "our operation comes in the context of our answer to al-Shuja'eya massacre and all other massacres committed against our people as well as the operation of building the Nazi wall."

Here is the complete article.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 01:04 PM

Clint, consider the question sorted out as far as our parts in examining it go. It was possible to read that post from a couple of directions.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Amira from Brooklyn
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 11:45 AM

Then let me disappoint him with a moderate reaction from an Arab American. What Muhammad Zaoul did was wrong. I cannot defend it and I won't, but I can understand it for what it was, an act of self-destructive desperation by one of my compatriots. Do not the Jews take their children to visit Masada? Do they not admire Hana who sacrificed her seven sons? Do they not rejoice at the slaughter of innocent Egyptian children in their Passover? Were those not all acts of self-destructive desparation by an oppressed people? Please don't try to tell me it was an Angel of Death that slayed the first born, or I will answer with enough angels of my own!

What we need to create are the conditions (economic, military, political, diplomatic) that will make those acts of desperation less likely. I am not claiming that all violence will disappear, but I am claiming that when such conditions are in place, then voices of compromise, moderation, and nonviolence will sound a whole lot more appealing than they do right now. The first thing that needs to be done is for the Israelis to stop taking Palestinian land, whether they do it by settlements, by expulsions, by creating restricted military zones, by limiting the right to acquire property to Jews only, or by building a wall through Arab lands. After that we can talk.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 05:09 AM

The guest who started this thread achieved exactly what he aimed for, extreme reaction.
eric

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 02:30 AM

Stilly River Sage:

I'm sorry that I offended you. Didn't mean to start a fight, & I didn't chuckle at the post.

I really wasn' t sure which way it was meant.

Since we haven't heard from Guest I suppose it was only meant to annoy.

I'm not sure about the line between sarcasm & satire; I thought it might be a satirical eulogy, but maybe I should have said sarcastic. Whatever the correct word is, I was wondering if he was saying something but meaning its opposite.

I truly didn't mean it as any kind of challenge.

clint

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: dianavan
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 01:25 AM

Carol C - You're as bad as me. Why do we feel the need to even respond to Martin Gibson? We both know that he's not even real. My guess is that it is a group of boys in a dorm with one computer. Anyway, he's not worth it. At least Tar heels was a real person, he could even play an instrument. As awful as he was, he created some very interesting discussion - some of his threads are still alive.

But Marty the Smarty? If we ignore him, he will die a natural death.

d

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 01:05 AM

I resort to name calling, Martin? It's your rhetorical tactic to hurl abuse at everyone who disagrees with you. Like you just did in your 24 Feb 04 - 11:53 PM post that you signed with my name next to the word GUEST.

When people resort to the kinds of tactics you use, it's a sure sign they know they're losing the argument.

You are very dangerous Carol C. Dangerous to Israel and to Jews..

Is this a threat?

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 12:31 AM

Well, it looks like this guest isn't going to rise above name calling and character assassination. Time to abandon this thread.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:55 PM

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Carol C.
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:53 PM

I know what I always read Carol C. You keep ripping Israel and sticking up for the Palestinians everytime. Then you resort to name calling. Yeah, I'm scared Carol C. Scared of people like you.

You are very dangerous Carol C. Dangerous to Israel and to Jews.

You tell me to go suck a lemon? Go suck Palestinian genitalia.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:36 PM

I seem to be agreeing with nearly all that CarolC has to say this time around. Darn, it almost makes me nostalgic for the good old days of verbal fisticuffs. (That's an oxymoron, isn't it?)

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: LadyJean
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:24 PM

I was thinking today. If my husband had abandoned me with a two year old and a baby on the way for some Imam's promise of 70 virgins in Muslim heaven, I would seriously consider giving up Islam and becoming an Episcopalian.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:16 PM

But the attack was caused by the wall being built on Palestinian land. I don't think even the Palestinians would necessarily have a problem if the wall was being built on or within the Green Line. I wouldn't have any criticisms about the wall myself if it was being built on the Israel side of the Green Line.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:11 PM

CarolC,

The kibbutz in the documentary is Kibbutz Metzer. Kibbutz Metzer is close to the Green Line, but is most definitely within Israel. It is near, but not, as you said, on the West Bank.

The terrorist attack on Kibbutz Metzer only serves to bolster the arguments of those building the security wall.

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:07 PM

Jew bashing, Martin? You must not have even read what I posted, which is, I guess, typical of you. I said that the Jews in the kibbutz were sympathetic to their Palestinian neighbors and were trying to help them. The Jews in that scenario are just as much victims of the government of Israel as are the Palestinians.

Your knee-jerk reactions to my posts show you to be what you really are: ignorant and scared.

The Palestinians are being forced off of the land they have been living on for hundreds of years. If someone was trying to do that to you, I know you would not take it without a fight. In fact, I know you would fight it with every means at your disposal. It's hypocrisy for you to criticize someone else for doing something you would do yourself. So go suck a lemon.

Subject: Lyr Add: MRS. MCGRATH
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:05 PM

Clint Keller, just as you asked a question, I asked a question. The way the questions were asked suggested an argument to come, didn't they? That was the point. Regardless of how clumsily the original post appeared, satire wasn't part of it. Sarcasm could have been, but not satire.

Justa Picker, chill out and move back up the page. How on EARTH do you think folk songs have any relevance to the world in which they spawned, are performed and are understood? It isn't by people with their heads in the grasses. Take an ontological view--they are as much social commentary as they are origin stories and general world view. All of that material comes from somewhere.

MRS. MCGRATH

"Oh, Mrs. McGrath," the sergeant said,
"Would you like to make a soldier out of your son, Ted?
With a scarlet coat, and a big cocked hat,
Sure, Mrs. McGrath, wouldn't you like that?"

cho: With your too- ri- ay, fol the diddle day,
Too- ri- you- ri too- ri- ay.

Now Mrs. McGrath lived by the seashore
For the space of seven long years or more;
Till she say a big ship sail into the bay,
"Here's my son, Ted, will ye clear the way!"

"Oh, Captain, dear, where have ye been? ;
Have you been in the Meditereen?
Will ye tell me the news of my son, Ted?
Is the poor boy livin', or is he dead?"

Ah, well up comes Ted without any legs
An in their place he had two wooden pegs,
Well, she kissed him a dozen times or two,
Saying "Glory to God?, sure it wouldn't be you!"

"Oh were ye drunk, or were ye blind
That ye left your two fine legs behind?
Or was it while walkin' on the sea
A big fish ate your legs from the knees away?"

"Well, I wasn't drunk and I wasn't blind
When I left my two fine legs behind.
But a cannon ball, on the fifth of May,
Tore my two fine legs from the knees away."

"Oh, Teddy, me boy," the old widow cried,
"Yer two fine legs were yer mammy's pride,
Them stumps of a tree wouldn't do at all,
Why didn't ye run from the big cannon ball?"

"Well, all foreign wars I do proclaim
Between Don John and the King of Spain,
And bejasus I'll make them rue the time
That they swept the legs from a child of mine."

Okay, Justa Picker, tell me where a fine song like this came from if social commentary and political observation weren't going on in the lives of the singers and composers? Different continent, different time, universal appeal.

I rest my case.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 10:54 PM

Marty - what do you do when someone keeps pushing and pushing? Better yet; what would you do if someone kept pushing your home further and further into the desert and then built a wall to keep you there?

d

Subject: RE: Obit: Muhammad Zaoul
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 10:49 PM

Typical Carol C. Israel/Jew bashing.

OK, so olive trees were being cut down. Let's blow ourselves up over it.

The Palestinians are just poor, poor suffering terrorists aren't they Carol C.? I think your brain has been caught in your accordian to many times.