BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Peace
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 01:37 PM

I think y'all worry more about him than he does about you. He's written lots of books, though. Seems to be doing well at it. IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 01:35 PM

none of his theories about the media or politics are particularly original - there are plenty of sane people saying similar things that you could listen to instead. I'm a big fan of Al Franken personally, who will tell you all kinds of stuff about the Bush family, for example, and how they came to power. Or about how a woman who had an oil tanker named after her became responsible for environmental policy, FFS.

Taken in the context of the lizards and the dimensions and the God-bothering, as Richard has so succinctly put it, Icke's political and media theorising becomes part of a much bigger paranoid delusion. I used to know someone, a diagnosed psychotic, who did similar things - he took the stories in the news as a jumping-off point, so it all started out perfectly sane, but then his theories spiralled off into fantasy and delusion - at one point, he told me he'd been locked in a cupboard for days with Patty Hearst. I asked him how that could be, as her kidnapping had taken place before he was born. He just laughed knowingly.

Mad paople can be very plausable. That doean't make them any less mad. The thing that concerned me most when watching the Jon Ronson programme is the idea of Icke being parentally responsible for two young children.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 01:12 PM

I think he is wrong about the lizards, that is nutty.

Do I honestly believe the media tells the unquestionable truth?

No

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 01:11 PM

Oh, I find what he says about media control of perception quite on the button. It's the lizards and the multiple dimensions and the God-bothering that I find a little deranged.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 12:54 PM

I think you can only condem this man as a nutcase if you honestly believe the media tells the unquestionable truth.

Sal

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: CarolC
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 11:14 AM

Are you sure, Carol? He has a go for Wogan's treatment of him last time, but goes on to spout paranoid conspiracy theories that make the da Vinci Code look plausable.

Yes, I'm sure. If you watch and listen to the video you can hear the audience laughing at Wogan (and clapping for Icke). I'm not referring to whether or not what Icke has to say has any legitimacy. I'm only referring to who is being laughed at in that video.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 11:03 AM

Are they actually lizards in sheeps clothing?

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 10:55 AM

In any pack of dogs, you will find them all barking the same tune. The same is true of sheep, only they don't bark. They go "baaaaa" and follow the sheep in front of them. The one in front probably has no real idea where he's going, but this doesn't bother the other 6,000 sheep in the least. They all figure they must be going to the right place, and as long as they do exactly what all the other sheep are doing and always have done...they are safe...and no one will laugh at them.

God forbid that anyone should laugh!!!!!!!!! (That would be worse than death itself.) Thus are the sheep kept in line.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 07:44 AM

I guess the bloodlines play little part anymore but people run trans-global capitalism, who are they?

Murdoch is putting his family in place and the Bush family looks after itself quite well. Is this a conspiracy or just capitalism?

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 07:30 AM

"Something like their has been a group of powerful people who ran the Roman Empire, then European Monarchies then European Empires. He uses the term "Bloodlines" and it is true that heredity played a part."

And who still, apparently, run the world. As the big conspiracy theories go, this is not a new one - usually these ruling families are meant to be Jewish, and the big question in Ronson's documentary is whether this is what Icke is covertly implying. Where it gets completely nuts is when he claims that these people are, in fact, shape-shifting lizards. Who kill blond-haired, blue-eyed children. And drink their blood.


No, seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: GUEST,Jim Martin
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 06:12 AM

I missed the 'Lizards' bit. I did hear him say that America did not have an open society (or words to that effect)!

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: goatfell
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 06:01 AM

nutcase

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 05:34 AM

Well I have to say I was surprised not by the barmyness but the ordinaryness of most of what he says.

Something like their has been a group of powerful people who ran the Roman Empire, then European Monarchies then European Empires. He uses the term "Bloodlines" and it is true that heredity played a part.

But isn't he simply saying the ruling class ruled? When power was seated in the ownership of land they owned the land when industrialisation came they owned factories and then other peoples countries as empires. Now we have trans-global capitalism. And its owned and managed by people who are unaccountable who we don't know.

He has a go about George W Bush not really running the US. In the short term which is worse - that he does or that he doesn't?

As for Lizards? I can't be bothered.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 04:29 AM

By the way: if you watch the Jon Ronson documentary on Icke, the original claim to be Jesus on the Wogan show is there.


Ronson on David Icke

It also exposes what may be his rather nasty anti-Semitic streak.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 04:11 AM

Oh! and look - he's still going on about the lizards:

the lizards are coming!

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 31 Mar 08 - 04:04 AM

Are you sure, Carol? He has a go for Wogan's treatment of him last time, but goes on to spout paranoid conspiracy theories that make the da Vinci Code look plausable.

Still a certified crackpot, IMHO.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 10:33 PM

Whether Icke was right or not, it looks like the laughs were on Wogan when Icke returned to his show many years later...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3282232518791280440&q=david+ickes&total=3195&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: folk1e
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 09:08 PM

"4. Therefore Jesus is within David Ickes, just as much as any of the bacteria or other micro organisms that make up his body are.
......
....6. Therefore there is nothing logically wrong with David admitting he is Jesus.

Ya gotta learn how to think clearly about these things, fellas!" ........... Amos

Well if we were to stretch logic that way ..... Every molecule given out by all of the "famous" ie Michaelangelo, Leonardo .. et al have been floating round our biosphere to the extent that every breath I take contains at least one molecule of each of them! That means that in all probability I myself am part Jesus/Michaelangelo/ Leonardo/ .. et al!
There how can you cope with that?
Of course you contain the same amount as me (given normal variables) so we are all one big happy family arn't we!

As far as I am aware you can not "clone" two separate species, or even two separate individuals. Chimera's though are a different matter!
Are the lizard metamorphs able to appear mammalian? Or do they need to bask in the sun before sucking our brains out? If they are so good at mimicing us ....how does he know? A visit from Will Smith in a black suit? Or the writing of Nostradamus??

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 05:47 PM

Seriously. Just one thing: if I die in the line of duty, please start a non-political thread in my memory. One about the semi-colon.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 05:45 PM

Hey, if there's any chance that she's one of the lizard crew, I am willing, at great risk to my very own personal being, to 'take one for the team' and test the veracity of Richard's assertion that "mostly lizards can't breed with mammals."

No need to thank me. Not at all.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 05:32 PM

"mostly lizards can't breed with mammals"

Cloning, Richard, cloning.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 05:22 PM

Typical Channel 5 documentary - minimum research maximum gibberish.

It's a shame about all the god stuff and teh lizard stuff - as far as teh Orwellian conspiracy goes it seems to fit with my world view - but

mostly lizards can't breed with mammals
no facts, no testing - just another religion.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: the lemonade lady
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 05:01 PM

this is interesting

sal

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 04:50 PM

Sid Vicious's mother is supposed to have spilt his ashes at Heathrow. Several people have suggested that they may be going round forever in the ventilation system....

If I've inhaled a bit of Sid in my many sojourns through Heathrow, I reckon he's more a part of me than Jesus is.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 04:06 PM

i From: Amos - PM
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:02 PM

Well, it is only logical, for goodness sakes.

1. Jesus said "The kingdom of heaven is within you."

2. Jesus said "Greater things than I have done, ye shall do."

3. Jesus on the third day after his entombment, arose into heaven.

4. Therefore Jesus is within David Ickes, just as much as any of the bacteria or other microorgansims that make up his body are.



Ya gotta learn how to think clearly about these things, fellas


Bit of a segue there from "the kingdom of God" to "Jesus", Amos, between 1. and 4.

The kingdom is in us all e.g. Love, reality. So i can begin to go with 1.

4. looks sorta different.

   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Gene Burton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:50 PM

I think the Sufis would; and in fact the Koran itself states as much. Words to the effect that the Jews were indeed given the Word of God, but then many turned away, thus necessitating further reminders from J.C. and the Prophet. (Been a year or so since I read the Koran, but that's the gist).

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:34 PM

You don't choose it Gene, you get it for free.

that the three major monotheistic faiths actually share a single sacred text

I just how many Muslims believe they share that text with the Jews?

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Gene Burton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:20 PM

Should also have said, re. "mutually contradictive (sic-I think!)"... that the three major monotheistic faiths actually share a single sacred text (the OT / Torah -which would probably still be my chosen desert island reading matter); though this is probably too obvious to merit pointing out.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Gene Burton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:15 PM

"David and his lizards - well let him bring forth the evidence."

You may find the documentary linked to at the beginning of the thread may shed some light on the matter, Les.

As for religions being unencumbered by much evidence, that of course is true. A believer would probably say that if you strive to live according to your/their faith, then your own life will ultimately provide the proof. Me, I just don't know (though I used to, once- but that's another story)...but my mind remains open.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:10 PM

I think the best argument for lizard-aliens is the tongue thrust of George Bush.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Gene Burton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:06 PM

THE FOOL ON THE HILL (McCartney/Lennon)

Day after day, alone on the hill
The man with the foolish grin
Is keeping perfectly still
But nobody wants to know him
The can see that he's just a fool
And he never gives an answer


But the fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round


Well on the way, head in a cloud
The man of a thousand voices
Talking perfectly loud
But nobody ever hears him
Or the sound he appears to make
And he never seems to notice


But the fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round


But nobody seems to like him
They can tell what he wants to do
And he never shows his feelings


But the fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round


Oh round, round, round, round, round


He never listens to them
He knows that they're the fools
And they don't like him


The fool on the hill
Sees the sun going down
And the eyes in his head
See the world spinning round

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:05 PM

Gene,

"I don't find Icke's inherently any less believable than anybody else's, and whilst they may be speculative, the same could be said of any religious, political, or even scientific theory."

Religions can say what ever they like, they are unencombered by much evidence.

If one says chocolate teapots circle the moon then ok, shall we look for them. It's an idea we can try to test. David and his lizards - well let him bring forth the evidence.

Most religions look ok if you look at them one at a time. When you look at them all together they mutually contradictive. Does that make them valid? Well I suppose yes if you want to believe anything you like.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: *daylia*
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 03:00 PM

hee hee!   Thanks Amos, guess that makes us all Jesus (oh lucky Jesus ;)

(i)The whole lizard issue is slightly problematic, no? (/i)   

"Lizard Issue"? A problem?? No Siree! Quick, Ruth, get a copyright -- what a great new title for all Royals (and their Royal Issue) in Ickey's New World Order    :-)

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM

Yes, Gene, but I'm not writing a thesis - I'm nattering on a messageboard. All I can tell you is what I remember seeing. My ex-husband had told me all about David Icke, so I was interested to see what he had to say for himself. I was thinking he couldn't really be THAT bonkers. What I remember is quite a gentle, quiet man who very clearly needed help.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Peace
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:54 PM

Time fer a song, dudes and dudettes.

Ben E. King

"Stand By Me"

When the night has come, and the land is dark
And the moon is the only light we will see
No, I won't be afraid, oh, I won't be afraid
Just as long as you stand, stand by me
So darlin', darlin' stand by me
Oh stand by me
Oh stand, stand by me, stand by me

If the sky that we look upon should tumble and fall
Or the mountain should crumble to the sea
I won't cry, I won't cry, no, I won't shed a tear
Just as long as you stand, stand by me
And darlin', darlin' stand by me
Oh stand by me
Whoa stand now, stand by me, stand by me

*Solo*

And darlin', darlin' stand by me
Oh stand by me
Oh stand now, stand by me, stand by me

Whenever you're in trouble won't you stand by me
Oh stand by me
Whoa stand now, oh stand, stand by me...

Whenever you're in trouble won't you stand by me
Oh stand by me
Whoa stand now, oh stand, stand by me...
*fade*


I now return you to your regularly scheduled program. (Man, that was hard to splel!)

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Gene Burton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:47 PM

Les-

It means simply that there are many facets of the world around us, the way we're governed and subtly controlled, and indeed the very nature of our own existence, that we have little if any understanding of. Icke posits a set of answers, as have many religious, secular and political thinkers down the ages. There's nothing wrong with or ridiculous about that, in itself- aren't we ALL looking for answers, ultimately? I don't find Icke's inherently any less believable than anybody else's, and whilst they may be speculative, the same could be said of any religious, political, or even scientific theory.

Joan-

Can you provide a link to any actual footage of David Icke claiming to be Jesus? If so, I'd be interested to see it. However, you must be able to see that "...I saw him say it on some documentary once" doesn't exactly constitute empirical evidence!

Amos-

I think now is as good a time as any to announce to the world that I, too, am He...

("For he was despised and rejected..." ;>))

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:36 PM

Can't you get a more sensible hobby?

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Amos
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 02:02 PM

Well, it is only logical, for goodness sakes.

1. Jesus said "The kingdom of heaven is within you."

2. Jesus said "Greater things than I have done, ye shall do."

3. Jesus on the third day after his entombment, arose into heaven.

4. Therefore Jesus is within David Ickes, just as much as any of the bacteria or other microorgansims that make up his body are.

5. Humans do not use the first-person plural when referring to themselves, plus their bodies, plus bacteria and other forms of life wihtin their bodies. They use the first person singular. The "I" represents that one viewpoint guides the whole lot (a problematic assertion, but embedded in usage).

6. Therefore there is nothing logically wrong with David admitting he is Jesus.

Ya gotta learn how to think clearly about these things, fellas!


A

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 01:29 PM

I don't remember "Jesus was only a carpenter's son" - I remember distinctly him being challenged by the host over whether he was claiming to be the Messiah.

The whole lizard issue is slightly problematic, no?

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 12:48 PM

Gene,

What exactly do you think this means:

"and even the claims about reptilian shapeshifters, etc., whilst certainly a little speculative,"

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 09:59 AM

Thanks Gervase.

I hope it becomes a bestseller, and the maximum number read it, critically. of course.

As afr as I can see, we learn more accurate pictures of the world from study, criticality and books, than from radio, telly and newspapers.

I will read on in the book with extra care. And I do wonder, given that the bulk of the population don't have the banks of researchers of Davies, Michael Moore, Bird/Fortune/Bremner and all, how we can most effectively get nearer the truth than at prsent.

   Ivor

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Gene Burton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 09:29 AM

Probably the confusion arises from Icke's statement on Wogan comparing the derision heaped on his head to the derision directed at Jesus "...only a carpenter's son", or words to that effect. Not the same as actually claiming to BE Jesus; though his choice of analogy was unfortunate because of course this gave the scoffers all the ammunition they needed for some time afterwards.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 09:17 AM

I saw a documentary about him some years ago, and there was footage of Icke on a chat show, claiming to be the Messiah. The look in his eyes was scary.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 09:09 AM

Flat Earth News has been reviewed by every broadsheet newspaper and received ample coverage on You & Yours, Thinking Allowed and the Today programme on Radio 4. So rather more coverage than most books. Davies has some fair points, but is largely guilty of the same crimes with which he berates the media - unattribution, selective quoting, post-hoc argument, invalid assumptions and plain prejudice.
As for Icke - yes, he is dead serious. Poor chap.

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Gene Burton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 08:20 AM

Les,

Well, you'd be surprised...I've met one or two individuals even in the upper echelons of the folk establishment who might just be prime candidates! :))

It's oft repeated that David Icke has claimed in the past to be Jesus, but I trawled through a fair bit of archive footage on youtube a few months ago (OK, I admit it, I was intrigued...as well as unemployed and with far too much time on my hands), and found absolutely no record of this. Could it be that Icke-claims-to-be-the-messiah is in fact an urban myth, propagated to discredit his ideas?

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: skarpi
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 07:35 AM

he is so right :>)
at last you will see what is realy goin on

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 07:26 AM

So he IS Jesus? And the Royal Family ARE inter-gallactic lizards?

Who knew?

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 06:49 AM

Gene,

"and even the claims about reptilian shapeshifters, etc., whilst certainly a little speculative, are actually no more so than most religious thought throughout history,"

Just a little then? Only a little?

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David
From: Wolfgang
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 06:26 AM

the Protocols of Zion is evidence not of a Jewish plot, but of a reptilian plot of Illuminati lizards. from:

Beset by lizards (GUARDIAN article)

In Germany they say that one has to be mad of some sorts to be a football goalkeeper to begin with.

Icke has said so many different things in so many different books, he just has to be right about something. So, Ms Lemon, the interesting question is with what he has said may he have been right in your opinion?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: So he may have been right after all(David Icke
From: autolycus
Date: 30 Mar 08 - 04:39 AM

Read "Flat Earth News" by journalist Nick Davies for a damning report of the meedja.

For some reason, the book isn't likely to get vast coverage on the radio and TV, where we find heavy criticism of everything ELSE.

And where else do MOST people get their information and iopinions apart from radio, TV and newspaper?

Ivor