BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 12:48 PM

"You could say the same for Saddam,"
We didn't help create, support and help supply Saddam and we bear no responsibility for his actions
One you start appeasing monsters - like any of them, you become one of them
"You people are ruled by your "liberal" ideology."
No - by our humanity
- you cannot weigh up someone who instagate the massacre of his people against any other monster, they are all monsters (even if, in the case of Assad, we have helped them thrive) and none of of them are better than the other.
If we had supported the Arabs who were trying to bring democracy (no matter what form) into dictatorships, Isis would never have gained the support it did
We song arms to Qaddafi then supported the rebels, we sold chemicals, riot control equipment and ammunition to Assad - he used them against his people while we stood by and did nothing - enter Isis stage right.
You snide on about Te Arab Spring so presumably everybody who suffers under allies such as Assad, Qaddafi, the Saudis, who we sell masses of arms to.... should bear their burden in silence.
If you were so virulently opposed to the Arab Spring, what on earth do you think was going to happen top these protesters?
They did the local thing and turned to anybody who they thought might help them.
We didn't, and now we're fighting alongside ta bloody dictator.
Blair was fighting for oil, not to democratise Iraq or anywhere.
The Arab Spring was about the conditions these people were living under at the hands of the West's allies
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 12:24 PM

"Assad is a murdering, torturing fascist"

Jom, how dare you compare Assad to me - someone might object and accuse you of giving him a bad name.

Greg F. - 15 Jul 16 - 08:52 AM - Example please Greg F. (Don't worry nobody will be holding their breath, it'll end up being yet another baseless accusation backed by nothing and totally unsubstantiated)

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 12:00 PM

You could say the same for Saddam, but how many still think his removal was a "good" thing......very few and certainly not the people who live in Iraq or Libya.

You people are ruled by your "liberal" ideology.....you walk around in the dark with plugs in your ears.

It is a wonder you are not still supporting the criminal Blair.
Every one of our interventions has led to catastrophe.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Stu
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 11:23 AM

There's lots here who are par for the course.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 10:52 AM

"Unbelievable."
Unbelieveable - you're not really new here are you Stu?
Par for the course
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 09:41 AM

[Note to self: recall the 08.54 AM July 15 akenaton post next time Keith or Teribus expresses support for his views...]

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Stu
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 09:33 AM

"Assad may not be a democrat, but by God he is a hundred times better than the fanatics we were about to support..."

Unbelievable.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 09:17 AM

"Assad may not be a democrat, "
Assad is a murdering, torturing fascist - that is better than nobody
Has Assad been removed that would have been hundreds of thousands of man women and children still living, including the mothers and babies who were shot for a bet with one bullet.
Isis is the result of Assad not being removed - they would never have gained a toe-hold had he been opposed by the west.
Isis is a product of our inaction and appeasment to dictators like Assad
What a strange set of inhuman values you have
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: akenaton
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 08:54 AM

Well, I would vote for people like David Davis long before any of the Blairite "liberals who masquerade under the Labour banner, they would happily have assisted in the removal of President Assad and left Syria open to a complete takeover by Islamic State.

Assad may not be a democrat, but by God he is a hundred times better than the fanatics we were about to support......Had it not been for Mr Putin stepping in to secure his own people from extreme terrorism on his doorstep, we would have succeeded in turning another viable country into a failed or failing state just like Iraq and Libya.

The greatest danger at the present time is Islamic extremism and this Conservative cabinet looks like it is free from ideological obstructions, can set up a real dialogue with Russia and get trade moving again.....removal of sanctions against Russia would be a good start.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Greg F.
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 08:52 AM

I have found that most people who claim to be tolerant generally aren't.

As you, Mr. T, have yourself demonstrated.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 06:46 AM

Taking the piss out of mates and 'adversaries' is a great British tradition.... 😜

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Stu
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 04:26 AM

It's not confined to one party T, it's across the board. Simply disagreeing with someone's politics and debating it with a bit of spirit isn't showing intolerance, that's how it works in the UK as you know.

I'm all for calling out intolerance where it exists.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Teribus
Date: 15 Jul 16 - 03:49 AM

Tolerance is tolerance Stu and I have found that most people who claim to be tolerant generally aren't. Those who claim to represent the "socialist liberal left" on this forum prove that day in day out.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Stu
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 09:57 AM

"With the exception regarding those who apparently support the Conservative Party it would seem."

Quite bloody right too.

Actually, I was a Young Conservative for a while and was even on the committee of my local branch. I was only 16 at the time and we had moved away from where I grew up and my dad sent me down the pub it met in to meet new folk. It was good because we as long as we had butties we could drink, so I stuck with it until two things happened. One of the speakers was a chap from Shelter who sat down and proclaimed his socialism at the start of the meeting; by the ned of the evening I was a total convert to Socialism, I;d never met anyone I agreed with more. Around the same time I was attending an English Literature O Level evening class to re-take the one I had failed, and the teacher was another devout socialist. She was brilliant, and as we read through Bernard Shaw and Dickens I realised I was on the road to Damascus.

Eventually I left as the behaviour of some of the other (privileged) YC's was utterly appalling, our Tory MP was a total crook and the local senior association branch was basically an afternoon tea club for rich old scrotes. I'm glad I did it though as I got a really good grounding in politics and saw how it worked at grass roots level.

That was over 30 years ago, and I've never been in a party since, and I now think party politics is becoming increasingly irrelevant and has been overtaken by a changing world as people become increasingly disillusioned with the many shortcomings of the system.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 08:53 AM

And now Stephen Crabb has resigned from the government "in the best interests of my family." Why, less than a week ago he wanted to be party leader! Charlatans and liars abound.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 08:48 AM

"I am one of the most a-political people you could meet."

Sure, and I'm the Queen of Sheba. ??????

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 08:17 AM

Boris for Foreign Secretary - are they 'avin a larff?
Just watched two elderly ladies on the news curled up - one said "he's an idiot", the other said rather dryly, "Maybe his vast experience as Lord Mayor of London has made him an expert on foreign affairs".
The Brexit farce continues.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 08:10 AM

"I have never, ever been a member of any political party in my life"

Probably not, his natural choice was disbanded in 1940.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 07:03 AM

Like terriblebagpuss I've also never been a membr of any party...

I'm a Labour voter [apart from that futile experiment voting tactically for the treacherous Liberals]
but not a member.

If I was to find out the local tory club served better conditioned 'real' cider than the local workingmens club's
which is cheap but often eggy and vinegary,
then I'd have a dreadful dilemna to contend with........??????

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 06:42 AM

"a welcome change in attitudes as society progresses and we become more tolerant and accepting of people's choices"

With the exception regarding those who apparently support the Conservative Party it would seem.

Said it before but will restate it - I have never, ever been a member of any political party in my life - it was not encouraged in the armed forces, as a result I am one of the most a-political people you could meet. I do however get a great deal of fun poking fun at people who:

1: Blame Margaret Thatcher for all the ills of the world.
2: Seem unable to say the word "Conservative" or "Tory" without prefixing it with the word f**king (So much for the tolerance of "socialists).

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Stu
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 06:04 AM

"In real terms, that legislation is almost completely meaningless to the vast majority of the ordinary electorate."

No it's not as it shows a welcome change in attitudes as society progresses and we become more tolerant and accepting of people's choices. It's about love, and that's more important than anything else.

Methinks the gentleman doth protest too much.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 05:18 AM

Well,Teribus, I've "had a party" for just nine months out of the last 65 years. I have no idea what political affiliations you have now or have had in the past and I'm not interested. It's what you say in the two-dimensional world of this forum that's relevant.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 05:15 AM

Meaningless? Well I'm not gay and have been happily married for forty years, and I can assure you that that "meaningless" legislation means a very great deal to me in terms of the joy I feel for the many people, including some friends of mine, who are now free to marry the person they love, just as I was. It is clearly not "meaningless" to you, either, as you haven't stopped banging on about it for years.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: akenaton
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 03:36 AM

Teribus...Mr Cameron actually said that the referred to legislation was that which gave him the most pleasure.
In real terms, that legislation is almost completely meaningless to the vast majority of the ordinary electorate.

Of course Mr Cameron and Mr Osbourne have done things with the economy which have removed the immediate danger created by the crash of 2008, but remember that was a crisis of capitalism, therefore from the Conservative point of view it required immediate and drastic measures.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Jul 16 - 01:41 AM

YOU have a Party Shaw - I don't, haven't you realised that yet?

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 09:40 PM

Yes they have and you are parroting Cameron's parting shot and you know it. Your party has replaced a posh Eton slick-talking pig-oral-shagging chappie with a harpy via a coronation. If you're happy with that then your democratic credentials are in tatters. Being "quite good" at PMQs is a measure of absolutely nothing significant. If it was, you'd be militantly calling for the immediate knighthoods of Michael Foot and Angela Eagle (or whatever you call women knights), both of whom could take call-me-Dave to pieces.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 09:19 PM

I notice that you do not, or cannot, come up with anything indefensible Shaw? Is there any reason for that.

In comparison between Labour and Conservative departing Prime Minister David Cameron was quite good at his last PQT in the House of Commons today when he compared leadership changes and challenges. The Conservatives have had the whole thing done and dusted between the 24th June, 2016 and the 14th July, 2016 - Labour haven't even decided and agreed what the rules are.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 08:02 PM

How much are they paying you to defend the indefensible, Teribus? 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Teribus
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 07:41 PM

Hang on a minute the "leftist" cabale on this forum were laughing and complaining that those who had engineered the Brexit victory had all disappeared from the scene. Perhaps you'd better look at how the Council of the European Union works it consists of 28 members and is an ever changing feast which at times for most of the really important decisions is composed of the 28 Foreign Ministers of the 28 member states. With the UK poised to leave then Boris Johnson is the perfect choice for Foreign Secretary.

Akenaton the departing Prime Minister has got many things to be proud of. You portray it as though he did not and that there was only one thing that he was "proud" of, which you for your own personal reasons disagree with.

The ruin of Libya? Well left to Gaddafi, tens of thousands of civilians would have died in the eastern part of the country. The GCC and the Arab League along with the EU, primarily France and the UK, demanded intervention. They did get a limited UN Resolution 1972 to stop the mass slaughter of civilians - Bet your life that the civilian population at large in Syria wish that the UN had acted in a similar manner to the strife that engulfed them. But no the anti-war crowd in the UK and Parliament stopped the British Government from doing what they saw as being right and the result is that since 2011 more Syrians have been killed and more displaced than ever resulted from the US invasion and occupation of Iraq between 2003 and 2010, and the killing still goes on with no end in sight - well done the anti-war crowd. Had we acted in the manner suggested when it was first suggested then Assad would have been gone long ago. There would have been a damned sight more Syrians alive today and no refugee problem and no ISIS.

"Amid all the mayhem since referendum day and all the comings and goings, my feeling was, as a non-Conservative, that she might be the best of a bad bunch, if we really had to continue with a Conservative government in Westminster. But she has just blown it, as far as I'm concerned"

1: What mayhem since the referendum? The only mayhem I have noted has concerned the Labour Party.

2: The comings and goings are those reflected by people who having taken a particular stance and lost, honourably standing aside and stepping down to allow others to proceed.

3: "if we really had to continue with a Conservative government in Westminster"   What are you talking about you prat, the referendum on the EU was a Conservative Manifesto promise in the 2015 election campaign, it didn't happen during the term of the Coaltion Government because the Lib-Dems blocked it. The country under our electoral system chose a Conservative Government in 2015 and they honoured their promise. The referendum was held and the vote was to leave the EU - if you believe in democracy then live with it - if not then I wish you joy in "Animal Farm" - you deserve it.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 05:33 PM

She's just lost her credibility with me for that, Steve! Amid all the mayhem since referendum day and all the comings and goings, my feeling was, as a non-Conservative, that she might be the best of a bad bunch, if we really had to continue with a Conservative government in Westminster. But she has just blown it, as far as I'm concerned

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 05:28 PM

You want a joke?   Which part of his legacy is Mr Cameron most proud of.......homosexual "marriage" legislation! Now that is a joke, an issue which affects a tiny minority of a tiny minority!

He could have chosen his part in the ruin of Libya, leading to the growth of IS and the subsequent refugee problem, or the attempt to remove Assad and turn Syria into another failed state and breeding ground for Islamic Fundamentalism, or the granting of a referendum to save himself and his Party from the wrath of Mr Farage and his ex Labour voters?

Well I suppose he hasn't much to feel proud about.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 03:11 PM

Bwahahaha! So she's made Boris foreign secretary. What a bloody joke. Still, I expect she'd rather have him inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in...

Bloody coward! 😂😂😂

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 09:27 AM

Looking forward to proper Conservative government


As it was before the Reform Acts 1832, 1867, and 1884–85, perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 03:19 AM

"Seems to me the Labour Party has just imploded and handed to the tories a long time in. Office"
The British Labour Party needs to look long and hard at what's happened to their counterpart in the Irish Republic.
Years of watered down principles, coalition and compromise with the right has led to their virtual disappearance from the scene - take a look at the last election results.
People here have turned to the independents for the change they want - luckily we have a proportional representation system capable of influencing individual issues (water charges seem to have been kicked into touch and attempts as refuse collection profiteering has been slowed down) but the big issues, such as homelessness and the exploitation and mismanagement of the economy by the powerful and influential need something more.
Labour doesn't need a "strong leadership" in needs a principled one.
As far as May is concerned, she has all the makings of an Iron Lady in a velvet frock.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 13 Jul 16 - 02:54 AM

Looking forward to proper Conservative government, which all you middle class, pretend working class folks prefer to something lead by that bearded fool!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 09:32 PM

on the other hand it's all been a bit too confusing with 'nice guy' Dave as tory leader..

At least now we'll have a proper despicable evil witch tory again to polarise political culture
and hopefully galvanise the student youth into forming politicised punk and ska bands all over again... 😜

.. might even get some young folkies writing the odd protest song
in their public school dorms....

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 09:09 PM

Thatcher come again. I only hope there are enough people who clearly remember the original

Some folks never learn.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 07:09 PM

"The turmoil of a General Election" - what turmoil?

It would be the sensible thing for May to arrange a General Election as soon as possible, before the opposition gets its head together with its body. I hope Teribus is right in predicting she won't, but I suspect he's wrong.

I wonder what job Andrea Leadsom will get in the new administration as her reward.

The big puzzle in all this is still why Boris Johnson imploded, just becacause Gove was nasty to him. On the face of it he could have shrugged Gove off as an irritaring tick, and still have had a god chance to be one of the two finalists. In which case ephe'd probably have walked it.

Of course he's probably a lot less keen on Brexit than Theresa May, but that needn't have been a serious problem. Surely there has to be some other explanation. But it's hard to think of a likely dirty secret which would seriously have harmed Boris. Something llike those swinish rumours about Cameron wouldn't have worked. Maybe he just considered the options and decided it just wouldn't be any fun.

And I don't think having Theresa May in charge is going to be any fun for any of us.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 06:55 PM

Really? Well pray tell us which Labour politician can unite the party and win the next election for us, reminding yourself as you make your selection that each and every one of the old Blair-Brown guard played a decisive role in losing two elections and catapulting into power the scabbiest bunch of ragbag Tories in history. Jeremy Corbyn may not be charismatic but, unlike every single one oF the conniving ratbags who dragged us out of the EU, he's still here and has maintained his dignity and integrity.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: selby
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 06:45 PM

Seems to me the Labour Party has just imploded and handed to the tories a long time in. Office. Thanks a lot

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 05:41 PM

I'm for Judy Dench.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 05:37 PM

Good point...

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Greg F.
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 05:09 PM

Rats and sinking ships come to mind.

Rats are noble little critters and have nothing in common with the Tories.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 04:10 PM

So Dave H as you see no requirement for a General Election it would appear that in general we are in agreement.

As for the Party Political Broadcast? Hardly, mere observation. Undoubted that the Conservatives have handled their leadership replacement task with far greater ease than the current fiasco that threatens the existence of the Labour Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 04:10 PM

So Dave H as you see no requirement for a General Election it would appear that in general we are in agreement.

As for the Party Political Broadcast? Hardly, mere observation. Undoubted that the Conservatives have handled their leadership replacement task with far greater ease than the current fiasco that threatens the existence of the Labour Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 02:48 PM

Labour didn't go to the country when Blair resigned, why should the Tories ?

And thank you Teribus for the Political Party Broadcast on behalf of The Conservative and Unionist Party, tosser.

Dave H

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Teribus
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 01:37 PM

Do the Conservatives have to go to the country? No they don't
Does Theresa May have to go to the country? No she doesn't

Is it in the interests of the country to be plunged into the turmoil of a General Election at this time? No it is not. Why not?

1: Recent EU Referendum means that Brexit is the main priority over the next two and a half years - no pointless distractions.

2: The Conservatives have shown how a political party can progress through a highly divisive argument and still remain intact.

3: The mess that the Labour Party are in at the moment would make actually mounting any sort of election extremely difficult, if not impossible. At the moment they cannot even fulfil their current responsibility of providing an effective opposition to the Government.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: DMcG
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 07:36 AM

"why did you not have a general election when Blair resigned???""

Add me to the list of those who wanted an election as well. Though I would add that Brown as prime-minister-in-waiting was recognised by everyone when the preceding election took place, which does not apply this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 06:52 AM

Nah, they just run away from the consequences of their actions. Rats and sinking ships come to mind. Of the choices [not] on offer, May is the least horrible.

Subject: RE: BS: Theresa May, failure and hypocrite
From: Stu
Date: 12 Jul 16 - 06:43 AM

"why did you not have a general election when Blair resigned???""

Well, for a start it was not up to me. Had it been, I would have called one and Brown made a big mistake not going to the country as a PM cannot rule without a mandate (which the EU ref was most certainly not); it didn't work last time, it won't this time.


May is hard to read. She seems progressive in some matters such as voting for gay marriage, but then seems to be a bit nasty when it comes to immigration etc. Surely she's the lesser of two evils though, Leadsom was a typical Little Englander tory and these are hopefully becoming gradually extinct... perhaps.