How to End Racism

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:41 AM

By the way, is our DH this convict
?

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:40 AM

Returning to the point of the thread, i think the important thing is that people share the same goal. But often we differ on how to get there.

My opinion is that some sort of harmony and tolerance can only be achieved through mutually respecting each others respective boundaries, culture, identity and rights, but all the latter must be seperate from each others respectively.

I believe in respecting the rights of Muslims to engage in their own faith as they see wish, but they should engage that faith and all its consequences in their own society, and not ours.

Again, we should not try to impose our values, such as the case of the US and UK illegally entering Iraq in an evil war that cost innocent lives on both sides.

Many people believe in tolerance through respecting each others rights individally but seperatly, some believe that tolerance can only be achieved through a more multi-cultural society.

I think time will tell which model is accurate.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:33 AM

Anything rather than answer any point eh!

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:31 AM

A mere matter of accuracy. It might be, in your case.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 11:22 AM

Oh dear. How difficult it is.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 10:11 AM

No.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: DavidHannam
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 10:07 AM

non-settlement colony

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 10:03 AM

India was not a colony.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 09 Aug 05 - 09:46 AM

So DH, you claim to hate colonialism. I assume then that this means that you would support Britain's pulling out of places like the Falklands and N.Ireland because they should not have been there in the first place, but colonised them at some point in history? And the same for the white South Africans (back to Britain and the Netherlands)?

Or does your anti-colonialism have a different flavour?

I believe that in the modern world any colonial agenda is wrong. I do not feel some overbearing guilt about our colonial past however, though clearly right and wrongs took place. Wrongs often included brutalization of the native peoples, but rights often included the improving of conditions for the host peoples, such as Africa etc.

As for Northern Ireland, the question is too broad. Northern Ireland has voted overwhelmingly to stay British. As has the Falklands.

Do you withdraw against the wishes of the native people? It is a tricky one.

It is a different matter for other former colonial terrorities, such as India, when the majority, not all, but the majority wanted independence.

That is the type of colonialism i disagree with, where the ruling power stays against the wishes of the people.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 08:10 PM

this may be a trivial point,but i really wish that jpk could discover the shift key.in fact i see from that last post that he or she has done that,but not for the start of sentences.putting spaces in,after full stops and commas,would be helpful too.it makes it a lot easier to read when that is done.i think this post demonstrates that.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 06:01 PM

You don't know what I think, jpk. All you do is project onto me what you think I ought to think based on your bigoted stereotypes.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: jpk
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 05:57 PM

you know carol it was people and politicans like minded as you.that lead to the ending in nam,in which 50,000 plus americans died for nothing.
if we did as you wish then those that have passed in the mid east will have been for nothing as well.
right or wrong we are there,finish it with the outcome WE want.
if we had used you reasoning in ww2 hitler would be in power still.
we would have stopped when he said,i will leave you alone,if you leave me alone.
look what happened to the russians in the same deal.
yea lets say we are sorry,turn tail and run.while they keep on coming.
nough said it ain't worth trying to talk to a closed mind.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 05:45 PM

sorry carol,no others veiws to parrot just my own

If by "parrot" you mean repeating without doing any real thinking, I guess I would have to agree with you on that one.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: jpk
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 05:29 PM

as i said a ways back,if you would stop dwelling on it,and giving race so much attention,it would gradually fade into to netherland.as long as you put so damn much focus on it,and hype it,it will remain as a very devisive tool to be turned upon the gen population by a small number who wish to be your masters,and you are plaing right to them a letting them.
sorry carol,no others veiws to parrot just my own.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 01:29 PM

It is and an interesting aside is that the caste system wasn't so rigid until the British bureacrcay was firmly in place, making it easier to keep records.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 01:05 PM

...which means, of course, that Hinduism is, in and of itself, a multicultural religion.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 01:04 PM

Even trying to define "Hindu" poses serious problems for the purposes of a discussion like this one. Until fairly recently, the term "Hindu" simply meant anyone living on one particular side of the Indus River. The religion we now refer to as "Hindu" is really a polyglot of a whole bunch of different indigenous religions of a whole bunch of different groups of people indegenous to various parts of what is now India.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 12:48 PM

David, you said, "I myself do not support colonialism, and disagree with any native peoples becoming a minority to the guest peoples."

I guess that means you think all of those with European ancestry should leave America and return it to the Indigenous People.

What about Spain?

What about Ireland?

What about Mexico?

What about most of the world?

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 12:25 PM

So DH, you claim to hate colonialism. I assume then that this means that you would support Britain's pulling out of places like the Falklands and N.Ireland because they should not have been there in the first place, but colonised them at some point in history? And the same for the white South Africans (back to Britain and the Netherlands)?

Or does your anti-colonialism have a different flavour?

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 11:07 AM

Your entire definition of native Indians is wrong.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 10:47 AM

Thank you, well i do have a problem with it.

I myself do not support colonialism, and disagree with any native peoples becoming a minority to the guest peoples.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 10:16 AM

If you want me to answer your silly hypothetical situation, no I don't have a problem with it.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 09:59 AM

Le Scarmaouche, quite simply, do you have a problem with the Hindu-Indo-Aryan majority becoming a minority in place of a white minority in India?

In other thread you mention me not answering, to which i apologized and have asked you to repeat them so i can answer, but you are trying to avoid this question through fear or inability to answer?

AGAIN!
Le Scarmaouche, quite simply, do you have a problem with the Hindu-Indo-Aryan majority becoming a minority in place of a white minority in India?

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 06:36 AM

BTW, things in India changed for the British once they stopped being multicultural.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 06:32 AM

India has always been bigger than you give it credit for. Your 80% Hindu, Indo-Aryan is a gross oversimplification.
They have as many different cultures as England does accents.
Even the Indo-Aryan thing is disputed from an historical angle.
If I'm going to have a problem with your hypothetical situation, I should have a problem with the Indo-Aryans turning the Dravidians and Bhils into minorities.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 06:21 AM

You are afraid. Your liberal credentials do not allow you to answer.

Do you deny India is 80% Hindu? and indo-aryan in ethnicity? if you can give me a better definition in relation to the question by all means do.

It is a simple question:

So, do you have a problem with say...India becoming a native-indian minority, (i.e Indian as in Indo-Aryan, Hindu Majority) country and a majority white nation?

C'mon, allay your fears of 'offending' just this once and answer a question that i know scares you, but the answer is on the tip of your tongue.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 05:01 AM

No, even if it were a real situation, it's none of my business. The definition you gave is still very poor and shows up your ignorance.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 04:57 AM

David will you please define a majority white nation?

You also said, "Wow, it must be tough feeling so much guilt for crime of born British that you have no problem with natives in this country becoming a minority?"

I can hardly unravel that, but I'll try. Do you mean, '...for the crime of being born British...?"

I'm not British and I don't feel any guilt.

Your assumptions are astounding!

Are you saying that anyone born in Britain is a native but only if they are White?

Please tell me you're not a racist.

Bye

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 04:38 AM

haha, you are frightened to answer.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 04:23 AM

Your definition of native Indian won't fly. Frankly it's not up to me to have a problem with it.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 04:14 AM

So, do you have a problem with say...India becoming a native-indian minority, (i.e Indian as in Indo-Aryan, Hindu Majority) country and a majority white nation?

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 08 Aug 05 - 04:12 AM

What if they're not of Hindu persuasion, Guest?

I think he was reffering the question in regard to the majority population to simplify matters. India is 80% ish majority Hindu.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 05:55 PM

"O Daughter of Babylon, doomed to destruction, happy is he who repays you for what you have done to us - he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks." (Psalm 137)

"Moses was angry with them. What means it, he asked, that you have spared the womenfolk...All the males must be killed, even the children, and all women that have had commerce with men; the young girls and all the women that are still virgin you may keep for yourselves" (Numbers 31)

"Then the Israelites went back and made an end of the city. In that day all the citizens of Hal perished, men and women, to the number of twelve thousand." (Josue 8)

"The Lord gave Israel mastery, so they put all its inhabitants to the sword, sparing none...With the Lord God of Israel for his warrant he left no trace of the folk who dwelt there, but killed every living thing that was to be found betwen Cades-Barne and Gaza. Josue 10.

And there's plenty more where that came from.

But if you take that kind of thing as an indication of what Judaism and Christianity are really about, you'd be distorting the true messaage of those religions.

And so would those Jews and Christians who at various times have done precisely that, and acted in accordance with those kinds of texts (think Srbrenica, think Deir Yassin). In much same way as those Muslims who distort their own religion into a message of hate.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 05:03 PM

Guest, out go the Dravidians, Telugu, Assamese, Bhils and many others.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 05:00 PM

What if they're not of Hindu persuasion, Guest?

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 04:48 PM

Indo-Aryan, probably of Hindu persuasion.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 04:39 PM

Define native Indians.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 04:31 PM

So, do you have a problem with say...India becoming a native-indian minority country and a majority white nation?

Is that a yes or no?

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 04:29 PM

India was far more accepting of different groups.
Better a white minority than a nation led by the Black Shorts.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 04:17 PM

Thats right, David, I have no problem with a white minority in Britain or in any other country.

I answered your question, now you should answer mine.

Do you think Ms Jean is a good choice to act as the Queen's representative in Canada?

Wow, it must be tough feeling so much guilt for crime of born British that you have no problem with natives in this country becoming a minority?

So, do you have a problem with say...India becoming a native-indian minority country and a majority white nation?

I don't know much about Ms Jean, so i could not possibly comment. I personally don't have a problem with it of course. My personal opinion however is that I think the whole position should be abolished; there is no need for a Governor General.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 02:10 AM

no carol no fit,just if you would read something besides that which may support your veiw and no other

You don't know what I read and don't read.

And you are blaming a lot of people for things that are being done by only a very small number of people who belong to the same religion. This is most certainly hate-mongering.

How about if we hold you personally responsible for all of the lynchings of African American men that have been committed by White, Christian men in the US south? That would be the equivalent of what you are doing with regard to Muslims.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: CarolC
Date: 07 Aug 05 - 01:14 AM

Now for Critisizing Islam, Carol would have it that i am a 'hate-monger'

No, you are spreading hate by incorrectly and consistantly saying that "Islam is" anything at all. Because it is not. The only thing you can say about Islam as a whole is that it is a religion that has as many different levels of liberalism and fundamentalism, backwardness and forwardness as any other religion. Any other all inclusive discriptors you put on it are lies and they do promote hatred and ignorance.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 09:19 PM

"I don't think that wanting to live amongst your own people is racist" (David's above post).

I rest my case...

Bobert

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: jpk
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 06:52 PM

no carol no fit,just if you would read something besides that which may support your veiw and no other,kind of like the typ bible or koran or whichever thumper,you only parrot the parts that fit your veiw and ignore the rest.
and i suppose that i should parrot some tome on the subject of british moslims,and their anti british bs,and cry because they now won't to kick a few out for the hate mongering,the fact being that they are rabbid dogs willing to bite the hand that took them in and feed them,guess i will have to parrot it hear since you will fail to read it else where for yourself,[but i won't]but please tell me the brit's do not won't a few of THEM gone,that would be so racist,they only bit a little bit.
have a good day any way and god bless.
oh yes,am i now the hate monger that mg was,that what you are tring to lable me as.least i am not going around tring to appologize for things that need no apploges,unless your caught in the your a victem/i'm a victem trap.
and it sounds like you are,always some one else to blame.
yeap,they ain't terrorist,we are,even if they did it,it is our fault.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: Le Scaramouche
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 04:25 PM

Does the colour matter if the culture is kept?

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 04:07 PM

Thats right, David, I have no problem with a white minority in Britain or in any other country.

I answered your question, now you should answer mine.

Do you think Ms Jean is a good choice to act as the Queen's representative in Canada?

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 03:38 PM

So if you don't care about the colour of the minority in Britain, you don't have a problem with a white-minority Britain in that case.

Thank you, that is all i wanted to know.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 03:02 PM

David - I don't care about the colour of the minority in Britain.

The colour of one's skin should not be the deciding factor of what constitutes good leadership.

Do you think Ms Jean is a good choice to act as the Queen's representative in Canada?

BTW - Multiculturalism in England will never work if people like you continue to exploit those who fear and hate those who are different.

Thank goodness most people just want to live in peace with their neighbors.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,David Hannam
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 02:58 PM

You can't do that Chris, because you would be accused of racism. I mean, imagine beating up Muslim racists? Or in fact any racists of the non-white variety. You would be racist.

Subject: RE: How to End Racism
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 06 Aug 05 - 02:47 PM

How to end racism? Beat the shit out of racists.