BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 07:09 AM

You just come here to lie through your teeth and nobody seems to run with your views. Yes you had one or two croonies along the way but they are now gone. As to your remark about me taking life. That was one too far. The amount of pm's received last night and today regarding that remark and the picture that I now have formed from the pm's really has put you in perspective, I cannot hold anger towards you, pity maybe. Yes I fully support Sinn Feins peaceful approach to constitutional politics. Yes I fully supported the armed struggle, but I moved on. Why not hold a Popularity poll ? I already have the result in 14 pm's. Your remark finished you on this site with many people.You just come across as a sore loser Teribus. This Republican embraces peace in my land, who says I am wrong to do so, you ? And in reality what or who are you, a washed up frustrated old soldier, sorry wannabe soldier who thinks the Irish still need taught a lesson.We Graduated with honours from our Campaign.Accept it.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 06:47 AM

Not looking for reactions WLD, just acknowledgement of certain facts in relation to things that some posters here come out with and the positions they take.

FACT 1 - Nationalist/Republican Paramilitariers killed 6 out of every 10 throughout the 37 years of "The Troubles" (Sorry rounding up but you can't have 5.8 people)

FACT 2 - British armed forces and Security forces were responsible for around 300 deaths nowhere near the third suggested by the PIRA Apologists.

FACT 3 - The bulk of the population of Northern Ireland want it to remain within the United Kingdom. Now if they say they represent the people how come that that is not good enough for them - could it be because they as a minority want to impose their will against the wishes of the majority.

In your post 05 Nov 05 - 07:29 PM you said - "I wondered at the time about a UN force - but the reaction of most people was - well its part of our country - our soldiers should be able to come and go. It was dumb, but you couldn't get people to see otherwise"

Harold Wilson wondered about it too, in 1972 he approached the UN, the US, Canada and NATO - they all turned it down flat. The UN because it went against the articles of their charter, the US and Canada because they knew a damn sight better than to get involved, NATO no because of the neutrality of the Irish Republic. The Republic of Ireland didn't the North because it would have meant them taking on a civil war they could not afford.

Now one thing I have just been thinking about is the reason for this upsurge in threads related to Ireland and the North in particular. A whole host of posters have moved in, some like Divis who openly admit to only posting to defend the PIRA. Now taking that this forum is American based and the bulk of readers and contributers are US based (I don't know this for a fact, it is a supposition) has this upsurge got anything to do with people taking the advantage to raise and air old grievances ahead of an American fund raiser, at which a certain Mr.G. Adams is not being permitted to speak at.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 06:14 AM

okay Keith, but I think civilised debate is the key. He goes looking for reactions and he gets them!

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 05:40 AM

Sweeney,

This is what you said

"Did a bit of smacking myself from the roof of Divis flats a couple of times Ooh Aah. But they never bounced back ! Maybe because they weren't Irish ! "

You did not say shot but the meaning was pretty clear.

Did you not mean shooting from the roof?

Who were the non Irish people who never bounced back?

(You were decent enough to appologise later for making this statement in anger)

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 05:28 AM

We are all curious, but it hardly matters to the argument.
Some here have tried to avoid answering his arguments pretending to be to offended by his history.
Lies were told about what he had posted here, to justify freezing him out of debate. Of course all our posts are available for scrutiny so the lie could not stand, yet weeks later it appears again in this thread.(Welsh Guard)

We are all entitled to our anonymity. Never mind who he is or what he was, if you can not defeat him in debate, resorting to personal attack is a poor substitute.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 03:32 AM

terribus - Which is it? Were you in the Army, the Navy or the Marine's cook? Some say you were a gofer.

I think you are probably a wannabe but if you wannabe, why don't you enlist for service in Iraq? If you don't meet the requirements, maybe Haliburton will hire you.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 03:32 AM

Nice one Al. Someone talking sense at last.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Teribus
Date: 06 Nov 05 - 02:55 AM

GUEST,Ex Welsh Guard, what train were you a Guard on Taffy? Maybe it was one that went to Balham.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Epona
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 07:52 PM

WLD - You are, by far, one of my favorite people on the 'cat. Always honest and always ready to listen to others. Thank you for that and for your post as well.

E

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 07:37 PM

The hatred and bigotry in Northern Ireland, on both sides is pre natal, it is then fed to the children in their mother's milk, it will never die.
This is the sad fact about these so called 'Troubles'
G

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 07:29 PM

How we English felt about the British Army being in Northern Ireland

When I was at college in the 60's one of my fellow students was in love with a guy from Belfast University. And she told us a bit about the politics he was involved in. And we'd read about the Civil Rights movement in America, and I think we thought it would be pretty cool to have one of our own. Bernadette Devlin was very charismatic. then Paisley appeared on the scene, and nobody knew what the hell he was on about, although you could tell he was pissed off about something - and we could see we were a long way out of our depth.

we couldn't really see why it was so difficult to deal with the Labour government of the period. They were a pretty non conformist open minded lot - I remember Merlyn Rees - taking a boat over to Calais to symbolically meet with Viet Cong, when they werent allowed in England. I think even Adams in his biography admits that the Cheyne House talks were an opportunity to sort things out- thrown away by the Republican side.

Then they army went in. Iremember reading a poem - more a piece of doggerel - in the window of the local recruiting office in the Lincolnshire town where I was at college. the young soldier just regarded all the Irish as yobs. I thought to myself, the presence of this man armed to the teeth will not be helping matters much!

I think those of us with any sense of history could see that the British Army had too much historical baggage to be a peace keeping force in Ireland. I wondered at the time about a UN force - but the reaction of most people was - well its part of our country - our soldiers should be able to come and go. It was dumb, but you couldn't get people to see otherwise - you have to remember that in most our cities we have a lot of Irish people - they are our neighbours and friends usually. And there were a lot of people still around from WW2 = when Northern Ireland had been an ally when Southern Ireland had been neutral. My own father fought with an Irish regiment. so there was some feeling that it was part of our country. although truth to tell - nobody would have given a damn if it had decided to join up with its southern neighbour.

still in the 80's when scarcely a week went past without some local church having a funeral for the kids in uniform - a lot of them weren't much older than kids, and quite a few of them were from round here - high unemployment round here and flashy tv ads had seduced a lot of kids into uniform. Well it was something to live with.

One bloke at our local folk club was a sergeant over there. Some loyalist gang electrified a grating where his lads used to take a pee, thus killing one of his men.   What I'm trying to say is that the loyalists were killing our soldiers as well - so it made us think - well we can't just leave, and open the way to a bloodbath, like Beirut or somewhere.

Then when Thatcher came along. Not many people liked her and her rhetoric was no surrender , no compromise - which played well with her blue rinse fans, but it was pretty damned obvious that there were secret negotiations going on - so it was hard to know what the real state of play was.

I think the Bobby Sands election victiory was a wake up call for English people. Previously we had been told that SF was very marginalised party and their election results up to then seemed to bear that out.

I hope that answers some of your questions Epona. the english army isn't there from the malevolence of the English people - whether James connolly felt he could blame us or not. we will all be very pleased when the troubles are sorted out and they are home.

I have no doubt some of what I said will enrage some people - whatever you seem to say on this subject - it always seems to enrage somebody. sometimes I just feel if could talk peaceably amongst ourselves it would be part of the answer.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Raedwulf
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 07:17 PM

Too long.

Doesn't matter whether it's a second or a century.

Too long...

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 07:10 PM

I wonder how long it takes for hatred to die?

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 07:00 PM

absolutely appalingly inaccurate songs.

Accuracy in songs has never been a particularly important requirement. Is there going to be someone going to start going round revising all our songs to make them "accurate"?

In fact there woidln't be to hat many left unscathed when you get down to it. Not even the love songs for that matter, more often than not.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 06:43 PM

Things went on behind closed doors on both sides, that will never be heard of in public. The constant bickering and small-mindedness does nothing to help heal wounds. The next generation of children will never be allowed to grow up and live in peace because of this. It is a sad fact that in this world children are taught to hate. I despair.........

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 06:35 PM

Thatcher was an enemy of many of us. I think the sisters were right to reject her - even if I do not support Irish republicanism.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST,clogger
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 06:28 PM

WHY is it that EVERY thread involving "Ireland" degenerates into a "you'r worse than us" slanging match?
There are ATROCITIES atributable to both sides.Live with it!
Any CONSTRUCTIVE opinion will be greatly recieved
...... and Yes I do know it is hard.... but others seem able to do it, or was your treatment/ experience worse than the black south african..... or the american indian. Come on guys a bit of dignity .... Please?

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 05:33 PM

Note to other Mud Catters, sorry if I stooped to the level of this man in my last post. Sorry.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST,Ex Welsh Guard
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 05:30 PM

Don't rise to the Marines cook boyo, you have the respect of many here, he doesn't. I think you about summed his service record up tonight.Remember those who didn't just talk about it.The UVF shot dead a catholic in 1966, it's the first recorded death of the troubles. Three years before the Provo's were eventhought about ! This guy is just a foul mouthed wannabe. See the Home office says today record number of football thugs banned from matches in England. That would suit him, bet he hates coloured people too. I read how he even attacked the people livingin Balham. For gods sake they are English ! Silly silly man. Divis ignore him we all do. His name is Bill and yes he worked in the kitchens for the army. He admitted it in a pm. Again no doubt he will deney this. Just as he did the Balham remark and the one about making Irishmen squell in pain. Which again he did.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 05:01 PM

Listen you bastard, where did I state I shot two soldiers ? I replied to one of your remarks and NEVER used the word shot. You are not only a poor example of a soldier, you are a poor example of a man. Your remarks show clearly to me that you never saw action. That's the difference between you and a real soldier. When you see the shit, smell the smoke, hear the cries, see the dead, listen to the families you don't want to see it all again. You lost any professional respect that I held for you when you made that remark. I will repay you here, be dam sure of that.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Epona
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 04:58 PM

Teri,

What are you personal feelings about British soldiers in Ireland? Not your professional feelings, but personal ones. When asked about Iraq, I always make sure to distinguish the two because soldiers do as they're told, but we all have our own thoughts about the issues. So, both when you were in and troops currently there, how do you feel about that?

E

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 04:52 PM

Beachcomber,

As clearly stated in my post they are not MY facts and figures, all have been verified, so you can't duck out of them either, you may find them unpalletable but there you are. Six out of ten, beachcomber, old boy, total 2055 murdered, around 47,500 maimed and injured. Now I was not responsible for one single one of them beachcomber. Divis Sweeney might have been, Guest Eddie Bunting might have been, but that is up to them to confirm or deny, Divis did mention something about popping two Squaddies from the roof of the Flats when he resided in 'The Planet of the Erps', as I said it's up to them to tell you about it.

By the bye my NCO's did what I told them to do - get the hint.

Guest Eddie Bunting,
No one on this forum has ever come up and tried to justify Loyalist murders the way that people have tried to justify the deaths caused by the Nationalist/Republican Paramilitaries. I think that my track record on this forum with regard to complete and utter condemnation of ALL the paramilitary groups in Ireland is well documented.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST,beachcomber
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 04:18 PM

Teribus,   you're at it again ! spouting your so-called facts and figures. Surely you have heard that old saying about "lies, damn lies etc "? The propaganda machine that you subscribe to is just as unreliable as any of those that you revile, old chap.
You must remember too, that the "guys" to whom you refer are, and were, AT HOME.
If, on the other hand,you and your like had stayed AT HOME, there would possibly have been no reason for hunger strikes at all.
I wonder how your NCO would have reacted to the kind of language that seems to come so readily to you, please moderate it or, I'm warning you, I will no longer feel obliged to correspond with you on historical matters.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST,Eddie Bunting
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 03:57 PM

Clearly he was a cook or a gofer ! Note he never says abouy Loyalist murders ? Or British Army murders ? Then again no cooks were shot. Fry up please old boy !

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: dianavan
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 03:20 PM

I don't think its a personal attack to ask teribus to clarify his previous military status. I'm curious about that myself.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 03:17 PM

Guest Eddie Bunting,

Point one.
When did I ever say that I served as a soldier in the British Army - careful now Eddie for there are those who regularly contribute to this forum who know exactly what my service record was - so please no bullshit reactionary replies. I'll give you a slight hint - Her Majesty's Royal Marines are not part of the British Army, they are not a Regiment, they are a Corps and they are part of the Royal Navy - Now, having said all that, I was not a Royal Marine but I did serve with them, and was extremely proud of doing so - Got it.

Point Two:
One statistic that cannot be ducked - Six out of every ten deaths attributed to 'The Troubles' over the last 37 years has been verifiabley attributed to Republican/Nationalist paramilitaries, the number comes to 2055. Guest Eddie Bunting I did not make that up, they are purely a matter of FACT all of which is verified. Had you guys stayed at home ALL those people would have lived, now that is something that you have to live with - I don't, my time was spent over there trying to reduce that number, the likes of yourself and those you support tried your damndest to increase it, as I said you guys have to live with that, my conscious is clear.

Point Three:
Maybe you should get in contact with Guest Clint who very graciously acknowledged that I have have never made any reference to Balham apart from stating that I did not know where it was. Check it out.

One piece of gratuitous advice Guest Eddie Bunting - If you don't know what you're talkin'about - Shut the Fuck Up.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 03:12 PM

Eddie, remarks as above serve no purpose. Tame the verbals. We all hold viewpoints, but keep the lingo down and don't make personal attacks on any of the guys here. Hope this is understood.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST,Eddie Bunting
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 02:24 PM

Teribus whats the chance of making your mind up were you in the army as you say or were you in the Navy as you say. Bit of a dreamer if you ask me. Total asshole is about right.2055 ? yet again you appear wrong.Your the dickhead that goes on about Balham, enough said.Hero's they were one and all. Sad about so many of your clowns!

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Teribus
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 01:46 PM

Hello there GUEST Eddie Bunting - Any apology from the organisation that you obviously support for killing that lady's brother???

Not at fuckin' hope.

The ten young men you allude to died of their own free will and were allowed to do so, all well and good they supported an organisation that were responsible for the deaths of 2055 and injuring somewhere in the region of 47,500. greatest good for the greatest number - 10 was a very cheap price to pay, apart from which Sands was a very poor historian and a writer of some absolutely appalingly inaccurate songs.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 01:21 PM

Why "see sense at last"
They were lifelong Nationalists if not Republicans.
I am sure their opinion of Mrs T has never changed at all.
They just were angry that Sinn Feinn officials tried to protect their brother's killers from justice.

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 11:21 AM

And the spin doctors would have you believe they were out to get IRA/Sinn Fein, just shows their agenda is not what the smear merchants would have us believe!
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Nov 05 - 08:25 AM

nothing else....more than that were killed on the picket lines in the miners strike, not to mention the lives and communities blighted because no other provision was made to find work

then there was the little business of the Falklands, brought about mainly by her cost cutting of the defences of those islands - thus encouraging Galtieri to chance his arm

i feel you are failing to give that dear old lady her due

Subject: RE: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 04:29 PM

After having had a hard time dealing with the consequences of murder over the past few months, rightly they didn't want to have anything to do with another variety of murderer.

Subject: BS: McCartney Sisters see sense at last !
From: GUEST,Eddie Bunting
Date: 04 Nov 05 - 03:07 PM

So glad to read the statement from Catherine McCartney and her sisters today saying they refused to accept the Women of the Year Award in London last night due to the fact Margaret thatcher would be there. In Catherines own words this is a women that brought misery to the people of Ireland whilst Prime Minister. She sat back and stubbornly watched ten young men die in 1981 all because they were convicted to their cause. This woman does not and should not be remembered for anything else. So at last the sisters and the partner of their dead brother have saw sense and the fact that they were used by the British Government and media to try and stir up anti Republican feeling in Ireland and beyond.Which might I add didn't work.