BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Greg F.
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 05:22 PM

Susan, what the hell are you going on about?

You want to play with Farcebook, & pretend it makes a difference, knock yourself out. But this ain't Farcebook.

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 02:31 PM

Here is what I requested in the OP:

So if you are truly serious about putting your brilliance into that effort, I want to be in closer touch with you than we ever have been before. The same day you read this. Or the same day you reach your own tipping point about the need for fast, smart, comprehensive action. PM's titled "Exchanging contact info" (name IRL, email, cell) will be helpful. Friending (or refriending) me at Facebook, ditto.

Love,

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 08:40 AM

it has to be said, that those that are making an effort will help the situation, and would make us smug if it wasn't for the profligate individuals in society that don't give a shit. Galling is too polite a word.

As for industry - we demand medicines and fuel to let us live in health & temperatures that even in the 1930s were only available to the richer. They gotta be made even though they are making the situation worse by increasing longevity and lowering mortality. Consumption rises..

We love the internet, that through Goggle, Farcebook Amazone and IBM et al have server farms estimated to consume 20% (+) of the world's electricity.

We put PV on our roofs that are increasingly made of cadmium selenide, a toxic element coupled with an extremely rare and energy consuming material. Spread thinly, fortunately, which makes it cheaper.

The problem is simple to define, but complex to solve. Anyone got any ideas on reducing the biggest pollutant? Man!

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Nov 16 - 06:33 AM

Here is what I requested in the OP:

So if you are truly serious about putting your brilliance into that effort, I want to be in closer touch with you than we ever have been before. The same day you read this. Or the same day you reach your own tipping point about the need for fast, smart, comprehensive action. PM's titled "Exchanging contact info" (name IRL, email, cell) will be helpful. Friending (or refriending) me at Facebook, ditto.

Love,

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 01:20 PM

wysiwyg, which posts do you categorise as 'bullshit'? I hope I haven't said anything in the taurean manure department?

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Stu
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 12:41 PM

The situation in the Arctic is very worrying. The loss of sea ice is a response to global warming and before we even start to consider the ecological effects there are substantial changes occurring because of the ice loss, including the decrease in the amount of light and heat reflected back into the atmosphere exacerbating the warming effect, the increase in emission of methane from the Arctic shelf seas and the possibility of changes in the jet stream, something pretty much all of us in the northern hemisphere have observed over the last few years. Have we talked about the melting f the Greenland ice sheet? Sea level rise?

It might be too late for the Artic already, I can't see how we can stop that warming happening now and this will prove very problematical in ways we don't even know yet.

Subject: Any mod please help
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 09:47 AM

Moving this to BS invited bullshit into it.

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 09:11 AM

Well, that's very encouraging Stu. I do agree that one can only do one's bit in a small way, but if everyone did that, the problem would be much reduced.
As a tiny example, Tesco have out-of-season fruit and vegetables from far-flung lands (I don't buy them) while our lovely local store in Wroxham makes a huge effort to sell produce from local farmers, and their spuds, sprouts, cabbage, apples (always only stuff in season) are flavourful and delicious. They haven't travelled far, haven't used vast quantities of petrol, and are sold loose. They're remarkably cheap too. (No shipping costs) I also grow a lot of produce organically on our vegetable plot.

I saw a very distressing photo the other day of the carcasses of poor starved polar bears, washed ashore somewhere. The planet really is going downhill fast.
I don't have any children or descendants, and I doubt I'll live another decade, so I suppose I could bash around ruining things without caring. But I do care, very much.

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Stu
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 06:39 AM

Thanks Senofou. I'm terrible at typing.

You're not powerless either. The individual choices we make are as important as those of the major polluters so stick with it, every small contribution mitigates the effect of climate change slightly, and taken together these seemingly insignificant actions become very significant.

There is hope. I think sustainable will become the norm, and the large economies of the east have recognised that the future in is cheap/free and non-polluting energy and are now building industries that will allow the large-scale generation of renewable energy.

Of course, our science-denying ignoramus politicians are missing a trick here. We have the science, technology and engineering skills in the UK (and US) to be world leaders in renewable energy and we could build a manufacturing capacity to exploit this advantage, but they're so obsessed with denying/ignoring the science they will condemn us to also-rans in a massively important future industry.

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Senoufou
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 06:15 AM

One can easily understand the sentence posted by Stu if one changes the penultimate 'the' to 'to'.

I feel it's useless for individuals to wholeheartedly believe that climate change exists and should be addressed (as I do) when many industrial nations either choose not to believe in it or refuse utterly to limit their activities which are causing it.

I can faithfully recycle, live an Earth-friendly life as much as possible (which I do) but meanwhile gigantic chimneys and industrial plants all over the world are pouring out horrifyingly massive amounts. of toxins and pollutants.

I can limit as much as possible buying anything in plastic containers or wrappings (which I do) but at the same time, trillions of plastic bottles and polystyrene trays circle endlessly in a massive whirlpool of shame around the Pacific Ocean.

I suppose my point is a distressed wail of powerlessness in the face of worldwide indifference!

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 05:30 AM

No, we're not. Scientists have moved from proving the existence of anthropogenic climate change (the proof is in, whether you believe the scientists or the science deniers is your choice) the monitoring what the consequences are and how we can best deal with them.
Any chance of having that in English?
As a sentence it doesn't make sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Stu
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 04:59 AM

"And I think scientists are just guessing as well!"

No, we're not. Scientists have moved from proving the existence of anthropogenic climate change (the proof is in, whether you believe the scientists or the science deniers is your choice) the monitoring what the consequences are and how we can best deal with them.


"Science will come to the rescue, it always does! But we pinta gonna like the answer."

Scientists can only give advice, they are not policy makers. It's the politicians who will decide the fate of our children and grandchildren, and let's face it, the omens are not good as long-term thinking is almost entirely absent from the thought processes of all politicians the world over.

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 04:14 AM

"Serious yet about ending climate change?"

Nope.

This planet has always had a changing climate. If you end change you get stagnation.

The best we can hope for is that the climate remains suitable for the human contingent for a while longer.

To that end we should do nothing that exacerbates change toward one extreme or the other, but what that constitutes, I don't know.
And I think scientists are just guessing as well!

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 18 Nov 16 - 03:51 AM

I suppose taking the bigger picture, if this lump of rock becomes a lifeless lump of rock, then as far as the rest of the universe is concerned, it is not even worth bothering to give it a second thought. Hope bringing this into perspective will cheer everyone up

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Mr Red
Date: 17 Nov 16 - 04:26 AM

that their small influence, guides the universe

Well "man" is guiding this planet's eco-system. Many species going extinct and we are hastening that process. Look inward, can't we see that our species is not immune from that process?

Science will come to the rescue, it always does! But we ainta gonna like the answer.

Even those of us who recognise the problem, don't like all the solutions. We recycle, constrain our consumption, but when there is a festival, folk club, or dance only one hour's drive away - well we have earned enough brownie points to deserve ......................

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 09:27 PM

In many countries they call the black sack a flying toilet.

Susan keep up the good work and stay in touch

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 08:08 PM

I meant keeping it below the line.

Subject: RE: BS: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 08:06 PM

Perhaps a relevant song I wrote might help keep it above the line. (And in any case, Technology belongs above the line, and technology is of cause very pertinent to climate cange. As is music and song of course, since those are pertinent to everything.)

The Black Plastic Sack

When they speak of the famous inventions
That have changed how we live till we're dead,
Of the cars and the phones and computers,
And the planes flying over our head
And they ask what's the big one that matters?
Is there one that's jumps out of the pack.
When all's said and done
I would nominate one
I give you the Black Plastic Sack.
       Is there trouble all round,
       Is the world running down
       Is this poor planet starting to crack?
       Well my thought for today is,
       Just put it away
       Put it all in that Black Plastic Sack.

Oh my house was a terrible muddle,
With the rubbish piled high all around,
All those things I had thought that I needed,
I knew very soon I'd be drowned.
It was time for a desperate decision,
I knew it was time I should act.
Out of sight out of mind
Is a watchword of mine,
So I reached for a Black Plastic Sack -   Is there trouble all round...

And into the sack went the rubbish,
And into the sack went the rest,
Into the sack went the shoes and the socks,
And the trousers and sweaters and vests,
And into the sack went the washing,
And the powder that came in a pack
And into the sack went the washing machine
Oh that wonderful Black Plastic Sack. Is there trouble all round...

And into the sack went the bills still unpaid
And those threatening letters in red
Into the sack went the records and tapes
And the books that I never had read,
And into the sack went my cheque book,
And that credit card breaking my back,
It's goodbye and good riddance my flexible friend
You belong in that Black Plastic Sack.    Is there trouble all round...

They say money's the root of all evil,
All the hatred and greed and the vice
We'd all be far better without it,
I think you should take my advice
So I'll make you a modest proposal
When you leave I'll be there at the back.
Just you throw it away, you'll be free from this day,
Put it all in my Black Plastic Sack.   Is there trouble all round...

Subject: RE: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 07:06 PM

However, dear friend WYSIWYG....

It is nice to meet your cheerful face above the line.

........

HUMANS (hope,believe,deny)....the face of the geological earth continues change....Oceaniac deposits in Colorado. etc

It is a foolish attempt by man-kind....to imagine, and wish, and hope.....that their small influence, guides the universe...."be fruitful...and multiple.......take the Earth and subdue it.

Subject: RE: Serious Yet Abt Ending Climate Change?
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 05:59 PM

Sorry, this is not at all related to music and should be in the BS section, whether climate change is BS or not.

Subject: anymod linkification help?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 16 Nov 16 - 10:58 AM

(Is having no planet to live upon actually BS?)

November 10, 2016, at the September 2016 urging of the most trustworthy, experienced, intelligent leader among my many mentors, I launched a new Ending Climate Change initiative which adds Climate Change activism to Ending Racism.

RATIONALE: "If Black and Brown Lives Matter (or Blue or White or Rainbow Lives Matter), don't those lives by definition need a planet to sustain them? And since these two legacies of Greed began at roughly the same time, they might as well end at the same time.

In the case of the loss of the planet, that needs to happen very soon. It may already be too late. Ooops!"

So if you are truly serious about putting your brilliance into that effort, I want to be in closer touch with you than we ever have been before. The same day you read this. Or the same day you reach your own tipping point about the need for fast, smart, comprehensive action. PM's titled "Exchanging contact info" (name IRL, email, cell) will be helpful. Friending (or refriending) me at Facebook, ditto.


HOMEWORK?

Yes. I think it is essential that we share a common language and knowledge base, before we all run off to do our thing; a new set of easily digested info has broken it down for us to run with. So, since I am probably the most ignorant person on the planet about Climate Change science-- and the many names by this has been worried about before-- I thought it might make sense to just lay out the best of the simplest resources I have found, as a starting point for us, and for any new people we will need to try to reach. (A side benefit-- people who will not do homework will probably not do any other sustained efforts, either, and may more properly be considered as a funding base.)

These newer items help distill a really big problem… with very complicated science… into an emotionally-manageable message: "It is definitely time to get busy."

This is an approximately weekend-length assignment, which you will do at your own speed.

•        View BEFORE THE FLOOD (the recent DiCaprio documentary easily found at Youtube), preferably with friends. After viewing, please post/send me a couple of paragraphs on, "What was YOUR tipping point?'-- when you realized that reversing Climate Change is now your key issue to confront? How does this relate to ending racism?"

•        Read http://www.theclimatemobilization.org/the_case   Read this "case statement"/history of and description of one approach to "Mobilization"-- making a note of pieces of it that relate to:
1. Your other, biggest, longstanding political passion;
2. Constituencies that seem to hear you;
3. How the options described relate to the headlines of "today" (meaning, whenever you start with us).

(Because: those who did not experience WWII as adults need this clear description of what WWII Mobilization was, as well as a piece by piece explanation of why the US would mobilize for climate, what it would look like, and how to do it ethically.)

•        http://www.naacp.org/latest/geopolitics-of-climate-changea-civil-rights-perspective/ Get up to speed with what NAACP has been doing for many years.

•        https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cMvqc5SWjq_zVbKpocY63jFDLEOr_DITVmzRfcjMzxY/edit?usp=sharing   Some folks prefer slideshow presentations; hear/see the same info, again.

•        http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2016/08/26/important-message-keeper-sacred-white-buffalo-calf-pipe We must include US Indigenous voices, and we can't simply assume that everyone has actually heard how to understand 'our' 'current' passion, "Standing Rock/NoDAPL."



Obviously, it's now pretty busy at our place. I have about 18-24 months to give online support/leadership on this before we have a big tipping point of our own that may preclude my internet access. (By then I hope to be strictly face to face in this effort.)


I am NOT interested in answering questions Google can give. I am NOT interested in debating CC (pdg has an old thread easily found that may be renewed for that). Or Systemic Racism. Or polar bears.

I am NOT interested in any distractions about Cheetoism (trumpism)-- that's just a motivation you might find effective to reach other folks.

I WILL answer very simple questions that will help YOU mobilize on what ever way makes sense for you. I WILL add resources as I find them.

~Susan
sorry for any yptos