BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 03:14 PM

Sally, I appreciate that from the horse's mouth is credible for you and I know it seems difficult to substantiate amorphous claims of "happiness", etc. Contrary to what a couple of others have said, I do not hate WalMart, I don't like their bullying tactics. I mourn the loss of small, local stores. I don't like that our culture has come to the point where people feel, as evidenced in Hubby's posting, that a company need not concern itself with bringing any value to its community; I loathe the misuse of "power over peons," which is exactly the way I view what Walmart has done ala the article for which harpgirl provided a link.

My son worked for a man who owns a LOT of rental properties in a small city, thousands of apts. He has many, many employees, makes an exceptionally decent living for himself AND pays his employees quite well, plus offers benefits, including health insurance. His rentals are clean, swell-serviced and maintained, and much sought after. Because he practises a "pass-it-on" philosophy, a sharing of his wealth, in very positive ways, his wealth continues to grow AND bring value to his community. One of the very positive things he does for his employees, after they'd been with him for over two years, if I remember rightly, is take them all, en masse, on a week's vacation, all expenses paid, every year. He hires a plane, makes all of the reservations, etc. then the whole group goes to such places as Cancun (my son loved that one!), Jamaica and other places.

My point is, he is a canny business man, he makes a good profit, yet he pays excellent wages, spends it and still has money to live very well. I think it has a lot to do with his positive attitude and the way he chooses to use that in running his business. There are other ways to run a business besides the run-over-your-competition and intimidate-your-employees way.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 01:23 PM

So don't feel the need to p!ss up that rope Sally....

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: DougR
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 01:19 PM

Sally: believe me, you will never be able to provide evidence to support your POV regarding Wal-Mart that will satisfy the Wal-Mart haters on this forum.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 10:48 AM

I just wish that somebody could prove to me why it is Wal-mart's or any other corporation's responsibility to pay what YOU consider to be a living wage. The gov't says that they only have to pay minimum wage. If they're doing better than that then what's the problem?

This is a free country and nobody tells them that they have to work for Wal-Mart. If they're not happy then don't take the job. Eventually, the lack in quality workers will drive the labor prices up in search for those people. Let them go out and open up their own businesses or find other jobs elsewhere. And don't come back saying that the jobs that Wal-Mart offers are the only ones available. The newspapers are full of job offers. You just have to be willing to do whatever it takes to succeed in your job as well as life.

Wal-Mart is like any other large company, well, is like any other company of any size. The reason that you go into business is to make a profit. Not to make sure that everybody in your community has health care or makes $40,000/yr. They are not there to provide a valuable service to your community. If they do provide a valuable service to your community then we should thank them instead of demanding that they do more and then haul them to court if they don't or even worse than that, try to extort more money from them for higher wages. No wonder they are shutting the doors in communities that are trying to form unions. If their costs go up then, ultimately, yours do to.

You probably know down to the penny on how much you need each week to keep what you have and maybe get a little bit more. Believe me....Wal-Mart knows exactly how much they need to keep what they have and to gain a little bit more. If they can't get that, then why shouldn't they close the doors?

Afterall, nobody, whether it be an individual or a corporation, likes to lose money.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Sally
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:50 AM

Kat,
Anecdotal info is fine with me if I get the info from the horse's mouth, based on incidents that he himself experienced. If this is really important to you and you doubt the accuracy, refer to an outside source that does surveys on this topic. I agree with Ron that health insurance being offered to part-timers after two years at W-M is certainly not the same as being offered after 6 months on the job elsewhere. But having a DM at W-M tell me things that are expected (demanded?) of him with regard to treatment of associates has credibility with me. It's difficult to know whether associates interviewed are really happy. Many need their jobs, and then there are those who are disgruntled maybe from their own doings and want to get even. I guess a survey regarding turnover and reasons for leaving would be the only way to determine this. Are you not impressed with the grass-roots survey at W-M? Are you not a W-M fan and therefore wouldn't accept any positive info I came up with? If so, it's a futile effort for anyone. Hope I'm wrong to assume this.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: harpgirl
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 09:37 AM

Read a new article about WalMart: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A51521-2005Apr13.html

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: katlaughing
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 08:52 AM

Sally, sorry, but those are all anecdotal. I'd still like to see some cited source besides a "company man."

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Sally
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 07:22 AM

Ron,
I thought it would be crazy for Mr. Scott to utter facts that aren't actual facts in his Calif. speech, as many W-M haters are listening and hoping to "get him," but I'll do as you say and will attempt to find an outside W-M source for respsonding to your questions. I think you're a smart man--articulate and fair to provide sources of info--but could you please be a little less sarcastic. It would be more pleasant. To others: I've been known to utter expletives myself, mostly in the confines of my home, but it's best to leave the crude stuff out of this as well. And BTW, I'm pretty much a bleeding heart liberal Ron. Give me your source on the welfare thing about some of the W-M employees. What about welfare people at other companies? And I'm curious...how did this website get started. I just saw BS W-M when I looked up Thomas M. Coughlin, and decided to jump in. Anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Sally
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:45 AM

BTW, I'm not a Republican. Always voted for the person. Didn't vote for Bush. Still think Clinton is brilliant except for his pathetic judgement. Husband and I cancel each other's votes in most elections but we're not as extremely different as Carville and Matalin. Hope some of you will still place credence on future stuff from me about W-M.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Sally
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:26 AM

Ron,
Will get back with you on Buffet and other details after some checking, but this is for those who wanted more proof of happy employees. Doug's right that there are certainly some associates who aren't happy, as found everywhere, but I'm impressed with some things I've learned from a Walmart Dist. Manager who listed some positive things. In his 15 years with W-M, he's seen many decisions to fire people overturned. He says he's proud to work for a company who does give individuals second chances: As a DM, he says he's spent a great deal of time on people issues to ensure fairness and a pleasant working environment. Some examples he's been involved in or has known about thatinvolved others:

1) When a store manager he liked hiring former inmates whose offenses were such that he knew other associates would be safe. The reward in seeing them turn their lives around was priceless.
2) Morning meetings are important to show associates that they are valued: associates are recognized for doing an excellent job, for good sales in a particular department the previous day, if familly members are sick, for achievements of their children, for volunteer work in the community, etc. The meetings are important tools for maintaining a "store family feeling."   
3) In one Walmart, upper management learned that the store manager rarely held morning meetings and was fired. That store manager used the open door policy to ask for a second chance and was given a smaller store three states south. But he had learned how much value upper management places on daily contact with associates.
4) When the DM I spoke with first became a manager, he soon found that he wasn't as fully prepared as he and his superiors had thought. He trudged forward a few more months but felt he needed more time as an assistant manager. He was allowed to step down as a co-manager and within 6 months was offered another store. He felt 100 precent more prepared.
5) He has sat in meetings where he felt an employee had not been treated fairly and has assured the associate that the treatment would not continue. In addition, he has requested in front of the store mgr. that he receive follow-up from the employee to ensure that the environment is pleasant and safe.
4) A recent example was an associate who off and on missed 30 days of work during a 6-month period, was lazy, and took breaks longer than allowed. She used the open-door policy, complaining of nitpicking by an assistant manager who's an excellent role model w/a great track record. The DM listened to the woman for about 15 minutes, then cited her attendance record, history of long breaks, etc., saying he found it hard to believe that the assistant mgr. was the root of the problem. He said, however, that he'd like to see her become a model employee and gave her a second chance. He did tell her to take a "decision-making day" (time off for one day to reflect). The first day back, she took her usual break and then slipped back in the break room again for another 45 min. She was fired the following day.
5) A customer was very rude to an employee. Employee, instead of walking away as they're instructed, became angry and responded verbally with a threat. The associate, usually a model employee, was given a "decision-making" day, returned, and has continued to be a great asset. He was selected to attend the Shareholders' Meeting this coming summer and is thrilled at the opportunity.
6) This one is important and successful: Grass-roots surveys are completed via computer anonymously by all store associates once a year. Employees are asked specific questions about members of management (if info is imparted regularly regarding benefits and store procedures, if treated fairly, etc.) The final score affects a manager's eval. If serious problems are noted, home office personnel send an HR person to the store for further investigation. This process recently shed light on quite a serious problem in a store on the East Coast. A high percentage of employees threatened to walk if the manager was not removed. The HR rep determined the concerns were valid and the manager was placed as co-manager in another store within 24 hours of the investigation. That manager remained as co-manager about a year and then left W-M.
7) The company works w/employees to allow leaves of absences for health problems and for illnesses of family members.
8) I personally know a man (now at the home office) who was assistant manager at a W-M where I shopped years ago, used the open-door policy, and never received any negative treatment as a result.
Hope this gives you people a better feeling about Walmart.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:45 PM

"Sally"--

1) When was the last time Warren Buffet worked as a low-level employee at Walmart? Please enlighten us.

I have nothing but respect for him as an investment guide and for his unquestioned long-term success and business acumen.

(As usual, Doug R does not know what he is talking about. You'll have to get used to that. Well, at least it's something certain in an uncertain world).

By the way, are you aware that Buffet was one of Kerry's economic advisors? In fact, he little respect for many of Bush's policies, especially his tax policy and his cavalier atittude toward the deficit.

However, I suspect that as a barometer of the happiness of low-level Walmart employees, he's not in fact a "reliable gauge".

2) Still waiting for your sources on your figures. What the CEO says in a speech, unfortunately, doesn't cut it--he doesn't qualify as an objective source. I take nothing on faith--neither should you. My figures, as I said, are from the Wall St Journal 28 Mar 2004--you're welcome to check.

3) I have nothing against discounters--if they treat people right. Again I ask--if Walmart is wonderful, why are some of their employees on welfare? Also, what is your view on the bill in the Maryland legislature I cited earlier?

4) Regarding charitable contributions--in an earlier thread Kendall pointed out that Walmart is actually often far less generous than the local businesses they drive out of business.

5) A few figures, from the Wall St Journal article:

In 2004 Walmart paid starting salary of $7.65/ hr for cashiers at its Las Vegas supercenter. That's below poverty level. Costco paid starting employees at least $10/ hr. Within 3 years cashiers can make $40,000/ yr at Costco.

Your figure of $10/ hr average at Walmart means some are below that.

Not even close to a living wage.

No wonder some Walmart employees are on welfare.

And Walmart, it's pretty clear, will never pay a living wage until the workers force them to do so, by banding together in a union. No wonder Walmart fights the union so viciously.


Interested to hear your comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Ron Davies
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 09:40 PM

1) Re: the sad story of my employment at Walmart: Did you say Walmart?
Uh, Marty--I thought you said you weren't on drugs anymore. What have you been smoking?

2) The successful don't brag about success--with your wonderful powers of observation surely you've noticed this? You, on the other hand, seem to talk about success a lot. Hmm.

3) Lower level Walmart employees are pretty clearly worse off than most Mudcatters. It seems the only way for them improve their situation is to put pressure on management (when management isn't too busy pilfering).

A union will administer pressure to improve wages, working conditions, etc. Could that possibly be why Walmart management fights it so hard?

Sorry, "Marty", that you don't agree that lower-level Walmart employees should be helped

Congratulations, however, on staying out of the gutter in your post. I appreciate the sacrifice you made venturing away from home. Would you like to try for 2 filth-free posts in a row? (I thought not).

Looking forward to your next sparkling contribution to the discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Once Famous
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 09:24 PM

[bleep - for antisocial behavior]Big Mick, don't back up into anything too sharp. I'd hate to see you shooting across the room.

Your intellect is not nearly as big as your pants size. FYI, you don't impress me as much of an intellectual. Here's a body part that's laughable: your brain.

Isn't it time you had another Irish whiskey? Glad to see your chain is still oh so yankable.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 07:42 PM

some that are happy, and some that are unhappy

Exactly, Doug...ergo, no blanket claim of "happy employees" can be made

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Big Mick
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 06:51 PM

No,MG, we can't deal with ignorant people who run their mouth and don't back it up with facts. Or they can just use vile language and reference to body parts. I suppose that is a suitable alternative to intellect when you don't have one.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: DougR
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 05:01 PM

kat: if Sally were to supply you with proof that Wal-Mart associates are happy employees, would you believe it? Actually, that would be very hard to do, I suspect, because your going to find some that are happy, and some that are unhappy.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Once Famous
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 03:17 PM

It's possible that Ron Davies got fired at Wal-Mart because he couldn't do the job and has a vendetta.

dougR is soooooooooo right!

Mudcatters can't deal with others who have financial success.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 02:36 PM

Interesting Sally, thanks for answering. I'd like to see more documentation in general.

Does it strike you that you said it was the other employees who helped each other out, NOT, notably, the company per se? Happy or not, it's been my experience that work associates can rally round when need be whether the company leads them or not, in fact sometimes it is in spite of the uncaring attitude of the company.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Guest Sally
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 11:10 AM

Kat,
Forgot to say I'm worried about the whistle blower. But I talked to a former boss who was VP at a very large chemical company his entire career--one you'd know right away--and he tells me that historically whistle blowers just don't make it after the explosion. But I still wonder why he was fired. Did he possibly carry out an alleged dishonest order from the top and is also to blame, then decided to blow the whistle "innocently" for fear they were closing in on him, or is he just plain resented for the revelation. If it's the latter I'll be very disappointed. It's so easy to say "I'm sorry sir but I can't do that." But I'm older and young people might be so intimidated that they don't have the confidence or the brains to refuse. I feel there should be laws in place (maybe they exist) to protect those who follow inappropriate orders like the sexual harrassment laws that have come into place over the past 20 years, but then each of us is responsible so I'm talking about of both sides of my mouth. G.S.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 10:54 AM

Katlaughing,
Ron asked for my source on the average wage. Got that from a speech made by Lee Scott, CEO, in California in Feb. 2005. I checked on Internet last night and saw that someone is debating portions of that speech, and since I don't have the time to research on and on about who's accurate and who isn't, I plan to omit the numbers in the future. I surely don't care that Ron misspelled (sp) Coughlin the first time and felt the need to correct--the meat of his message is what's important for me. About happy employees, I've shopped in so many Walmarts around my home and in towns and cities while vacationing and because of the W-M bashing, I've asked how they like their jobs. Sure, they may think I'm a shopper, but I think I can discern enough to know. One told me she wished her hours could be better while attending college and another told me she hated it her job (she was in hardware making keys). I encouraged her to go straight to the manager because I knew he'd care, which she did, and in a few months when I saw her she told me things were better. Today, 8 years later she's a happy department head, feeling important, needed, and making more money. I know that they try to ensure that there's a family atmosphere, despite the number of employees. I've known of associates who were in terrible financial stress and others who had illness in the family, and employees collectively embraced those individuals in a big way to help. I know another woman who lost her husband and couldn't have done it without the help of her store associates. The company is huge, so there are bound to be some managers who aren't as people-oriented as they should be, but overall this is what I've experienced. I wouldn't be happy in retail, and thank God I had skills to do something else, but I'm convinced from what I've seen and discussed, that this is truly a company that cares about their employees and expects the management staff to carry that out. Some might say, "That's because the associates meet the public." Whether it's from the heart of those at the top or a duty, they know that having employees happy is the right thing to emphasize. That's a duh!!

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: katlaughing
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 08:45 AM

Sally, for a meaningful debate, cite your sources, as Ron has done. I'd esp. like to know how you know that Walmart associates are very happy people.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Sally
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 02:24 AM

Ron, talk to me about Costco's philanthropic activities. Thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Sally
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 01:56 AM

Ron, my comment "we all have our flaws" was not appropriate. It minimized the seriousness of the alleged offense. I just like to keep myself in check as I start judging others. But with regard to your implying that his $6 million per year should be enough to avoid the temptation to pilfer, there are many of us who wouldn't steal money from our employer if we were earning beans and potatoes as remuneration. I'm recently retired and I don't like recalling the times I emailed non-work-related messages on my job when I should have been checking to see if others needed my assistance. In a sense, that was stealing time from my employer and I'm ashamed. This thing at W-M and everywhere else today is not about salary. It's about character and greed. But every one of us can reflect and see that we're not perfect. I still argue that there's more good than bad about W-M and other discounters.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: DougR
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 01:36 AM

Guest Sally: you should know that using Warren Buffet as a source on this forum will bring you nothing but pain. Most of these folks hate any that smacks of success and wealth. Many of them hate Wal-Mart because that's what they do.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Sally
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 01:02 AM

Ron,
I trust you've provided accurate facts. Costco seems like an excellent place to work doesn't it. I don't "hear" a very gently guy as you explain Medicaid to me. Me thinks you're very touchy. I hope you aren't one of those who blames Walmart exclusively for outsourcing. If W S Journal's article reflects correct info in this comparison with Costco, I invite you to compare the part-timer insurance thing with other companies. By the way, on the average, Walmart associates are very happy people and somehow the day-to-day feeling of those people is important, whether or not I, myself, would enjoy working in that environment. Have you ever read Warren Buffet's comments about Walmart. Somehow I think he's a pretty reliable gauge.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Ron Davies
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 11:07 PM

"Sally"--

Average wage at Walmart is $10/hr.--source please.

Comparisons of Walmart and Costco (from Wall St Journal 28 Mar 2004)

Employees covered by health insurance:
          Costco: 82%
          Walmart 48%

Insurance enrollment waiting periods
          Costco; fulltime 3 months, part-time 6 months
          Walmart:fulltime 6 months, part-time 2 years.

    That's right, you have to work part-time 2 years for Walmart at their wonderful wages to qualify for health insurance (my comment, not in article)

Portion of health care premium paid by company:
          Costco: 92%
          Walmart 67%

Walmart doesn't give its wage rates since they vary by location--curious to know where your info came from (again, my comment)

Costco pays starting employees at least $10/ hr. That's starting employees, not average, and since the figure is from 3-2004, it's probably up now.

Questions for you:

1) Why are any Walmart employees on welfare?
2) Do you think it's totally politics, with no reason beyond that, that the Maryland legislature is now trying to force Walmart to spend 8% of its payroll on health benefits or put the difference into the state Medicaid fund?

In case you're not aware, Medicaid is to help the indigent.

"We all have our flaws". Absolutely. However, I venture to say that most of us would be content with $6 million per year, without pilfering company accounts.

Or is the whole thing a trumped-up charge inexplicably swallowed by the Wall St Journal, which broke the story?

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Fairminded Sally
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 05:41 PM

In 2004 W-M gave back more than $170 million in charitable contributions, the largest corporate cash giving Foundatioin in the USA. I don't take that lightly. Many are touched by this, especially sick children. I feel terrible for company employees due to this latest incident--from the bottom to the top of the ladder--because those who love to hate them will enjoy running with it for a while. A sad situation for the inidivudal who resigned due to the alleged incident(s). An entire career! If founded, and I hope there's an error here, it's so preposterous that people still don't get that integrity is more important than a good education. Thank goodness Americans historically have proven that they forget and forgive pretty quickly. We all have our flaws. This too shall pass and something good comes from most adversity. Those who pray, please say a prayer for the company's employees who work so hard as well as the man who has resigned due to the alleged incident.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 05:18 PM

Bridge, get a life. Or at least a client you don't milk.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 05:18 PM

Guest, Fairmind Sally, good post.

The trouble is that there are just so many socialist pin-heads here who hate anything and everything corporate even though many of them get their own paychecks and benefits from such.

It's just their own self-esteem problem they have.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,Fairminded Sally
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 05:09 PM

Some stats:

Did some checking: Average wage at Walmart is $10/hour. They're one of the few retailers that offers health benefits to part-time employees. Premiums start at under $40 a month (individual)and less than $155/mo. for family. And no lifetime maximum after the first year!! Other benefits are excellent as well. One day their replacement as the no. 1 retailer will endure the same ugly comments. I grew up in a small town where my dad was able to afford the mom and pop prices of the 3 drug stores in town. In retrospect I shutter at what many townspeople couldn't afford. I've thought about smaller merchants hurt by the large discounters, and that's sad too. But today we're in a new culture and overall, I'm happy that more people have lower prices. Not everyone is caught up in obscene consumerism. Many are good people trying to get by and store like Home Depot and Walmart enable that. Let's know the facts before we keep this up.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: DougR
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 01:32 AM

Carol C: my son is not in upper management at Wal-Mart.

Mick: the current controversy, according to what I read in the newspapers, is an internal problem to be resolved by the board of directors of Wal-Mart. One of the officers is accused of spending company money for unauthorized payments to individuals who could assist management in preventing unionization of Wal-Mart stores. To my knowledge, at this point, there are only accusations. No charges have been filed against the corporate officer. As to other Wal-Mart transgressions, I am not familiar with them. Has anyone been imprisoned as a result of the sins you alledge Wal-Mart has committed?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 10:25 PM

Why would I give a rats ass about "American Workers"?

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 08:03 PM

So, Gobson and HammondOrgan (hereinafter "Organ"), you actually want to see American workers forced to accept the same wages as offshore slaves? That really says it all about your consciences, doesn't it?

If you don't support the union until you need it, then, when you need it, it will be too late.

No-one (repeat, no-one) believes the Adam Smith doctrine any more. It only works for those prepared to scramble over the corpses of others to achieve success - and who believe in their ability to keep doing it.

As Neil Kinnock said (and was proved right) "Do not be poor. Do not be ordinary."

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 03:33 PM

I'm with MG at this pount, when he sais Screw the unions... With the exception of 2 groups... teachers, and nurses... Two groups that still get the shaft, even WITh their unions...

The rest of them can go spit... Worthless packs of pimps and whores...

No... wait... that's too insulting to honest whores....

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 03:12 PM

Hubby, concerning your comments to Big Mick, no, he's not.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:24 PM

HMMM.....

Imagine that. A company that goes to bat for their workers in order for them to have an easier route for getting to work. Sounds like the workers have some pretty good people to work for doesn't it? Not only that but they're also asking for something that would genuinely better the community. According to others in this thread, it sounds just the opposite. Which is it going to be? Are they good or are they bad?


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 02:14 PM

Hubby, narrow-mindedness has nothing to do with it. If you'd read the whole article, you'd see it was THE COMPANY that asked a congressman to go after the funds specifically for THE COMPANY'S benefit.

Wal-Mart spokesman Jay Allen said the company wants Eighth Street improved so the 10,000 workers at company headquarters will have an easier time getting to their jobs.

If there are other business along that route which would benefit from the project, fine. That's not the way it sounds and I don't like taxpayer money being used to accomodate a giant corporation which has such a reputation for bullying out so many worthwhile local businesses.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 12:10 PM

kat....

Have you ever been to Bentonville? If so then I'm sure that you would realize that the street running down beside the Wal-Mart corporate offices and large warehousing facility is constantly clogged with cars and semi's coming in and out at all hours of the day and night. Hwy 540 into Bentonville is a good road and Hwy 71 out of Bentonville is a good road...but the business hwy running through the middle of Bentonville is packed with other businesses and car dealerships that beg all sorts of other non-WM traffic. It's something that the population of NW Arkansas has been wanting for a long time and it should have been done a long time ago.

Don't be so narrow minded to assume that just because it's Wal-Mart that that's the reason it's happening. It happens in cities that are growing every year. Not just Bentonville, Arkansas.



Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 11:05 AM

Another instance of the GOP loving Wal-Mart AND charging it to the taxpayers:

The whole article may be read HERE

Saturday, March 26, 2005
By The Associated Press

BENTONVILLE, Ark. -- The U.S. House has approved a federal highway bill that includes $37 million for widening and extending the Bentonville street that provides the main access to the headquarters of Wal-Mart Stores Inc.

The company says it asked U.S. Rep. John Boozman, R-Ark., to help get federal money for the proposed project. U.S. Rep. Don Young, R-Alaska, added an amendment that put the work into the $284 billion bill, which is now before the Senate.

The Senate is supposed to vote on this, this month.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Dani
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 10:49 AM

Thanks for the reminder. It's so easy to stop at WalMart and pick up stuff cheap, but my local still-family-owned hardware store, pharmacy, jeweler and garden store are struggling to hang on. It really does make a difference to them where I buy my dustmop, or thermostat timer, or flat of pansies.

Name calling doesn't help anyone, y'all. Just think about where you spend your money, make the effort to do it mindfully, and try to witness without knocking people on the head. Doesn't work in religion OR politics OR anywhere else.

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 10:32 AM

Come on Mick..........

Even you're smart enough to figure this one out......I'm not trying to make the argument that Wal-Mart hasn't done some questionable things in the past. What I have stated is that why does everyone assume that your employer, whoever that may be, is responsible for YOUR health insurance? Evidently, I hear that the state of Maryland does and I have also heard that MD's gov. will be vetoing the bill if it reaches his desk. Hooray for him.


Don't let your liberal beliefs cloud your mind from logical thinking. You'll soon find smoke billowing from your ears.


Hubby

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 10:28 AM

they have a culture of disregard for the laws they don't believe in


sounds like Wal-Mart resembles and emulates Congress, many state governments and virtually every big business I've ever heard of.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 10:07 AM

One more of the conservatives have spoken, one more of these spokesmen for "values". And once more they refuse to address the fact that this company, over and over, has demonstrated an absolute disregard for the laws of this land. Over and over they have violated the rights of women, immigrants, working folks, local zoning laws (read that their attempt to circumvent zoning statutes by doing a referendum) ....... they have a culture of disregard for the laws they don't believe in. The hypocrisy being shown by you folks is staggering.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Susu's Hubby
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 09:53 AM

"Unless just possibly there is something to the charge that Walmart systematically underpays its lower-paid workers and provides such abysmal health care that it has to be forced to do what it should already be doing."

   Since when is it big business' responsibility to provide any type of health coverage to it's employees? I thought that this is why businesses offered benefits to their employees so that they could get employees that are more loyal and would work harder at doing a good job.

   The reason that they're called "benefits" is because they are normally not expected. It's something extra.

    What the state of Maryland is doing is nothing short of extortion and if it passes then it will do nothing but cause people to lose jobs. Let's hope that Md.'s gov. will have the sense enough to veto that piece of crap legislation.

    For the many clueless ones out there, just think a little harder about how something can affect something else and I guarantee you will change your way of thinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Ron Davies
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 10:20 PM

How many bad apples will it take before you need to get a different barrel?


Walmart is also under pressure in Maryland, of all places. A law dubbed the "Wal-Mart Bill" is progressing in the Maryland General Assembly. This would require any company which has over 10,000 workers in Maryland to spend at least 8% of its payroll on health care benefits for its employees or put the difference into the state Medicaid fund.

In Maryland now, Walmart is the only firm that fits the bill.


Now I wonder why such a law would be necesssary?

Unless just possibly there is something to the charge that Walmart systematically underpays its lower-paid workers and provides such abysmal health care that it has to be forced to do what it should already be doing.

It doesn't have to be this way. In an earlier thread I detailed the contrast on health insurance and pay between Costco and Walmart.

If the shoe were on the other foot, "Martin", you might feel differently.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 10:14 PM

Martin, it is very interesting that you only have comments about body parts. Why the interest?

Doug, I know your son has a good job, and that you are happy about that. Fair enough. But you didn't answer the contention. It wasn't about your son. It was about this Corporation continually breaking the law of the land, which you and Martin are continually defending, and it doesn't seem to bother you. To ask again, how many times will they have to be found guilty of flagrant abuse of the environmental, labor, import, and immigration laws before you speak against them?

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 01:13 PM

How high up the Walmart corporate echelon is your son, DougR? Is he management?

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 12:55 PM

Screw the Unions at this point. You have driven the cost of labor off-shore.

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: DougR
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 12:21 PM

Mick: spoken like a true union man. I am not. As I have posted time after time, my son has been an employee of Wal-Mart for almost fifteen years. He feels that he is treated fairly, is paid a good salary, and has good health benefits. I'm confident that he is not the only employee of Wal-Mart that is satisfied with is job, and likes his employer. He is not a union man either.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Walmart: Union-Busting SOP
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Apr 05 - 11:03 AM

No, Mick you are disgusting sticking your big butt in everyone else's business.

Please buzz off.

Like I've said before, where I spend my money legally is none of your concern, so please shit-up.