BS: American Presidential race 2024

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 04:31 PM

I’m seeing suggestions that this latest ‘assassination attempt’ was no such thing, that it was staged to try to draw attention away from Agent Orange’s disastrous ‘cat and laser pointer’ performance in the TV debate, quote
What, suggestions>? there was an assassination attempt   a second one

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 03:48 PM

The guy was hanging out in that spot for over 12 hours. The New York Times reporter apparently interviewed Routh in 2023 via a referral from a friend of his in Kabul. Routh spent time in Ukraine:

Mr. Routh, who had spent some time in Ukraine trying to raise support for the war, was seeking recruits from among Afghan soldiers who fled the Taliban. And so the former Afghan soldier reckoned Mr. Routh could get him to the Ukrainian front. (Anything, even war, was better than the conditions in Iran for Afghans after the Taliban retook Kabul in August of 2021.)

There were a few complications. Mr. Routh, a former construction worker from Greensboro, N. C., said he never fought in Ukraine himself — he was too old and had no military experience.

But like many foreign volunteers who showed up at Ukraine’s border in the war’s early months, he was eager to cast aside his former life for something far more exciting and make a name for himself.

“In my opinion everyone should be there supporting the Ukrainians,” he told me, his voice urgent, exasperated and a little suspicious over the phone.

The reporter says that "By the time I got off the phone with Mr. Routh some minutes later, it was clear he was in way over his head." It sounds like he is politely not saying that Mr. Routh is out of his mind.

My conjecture here is that he's angry that Trump would throw Ukraine to the Russians if he were elected.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 02:51 PM

Donald Trump under lesser security on golf course during second apparent assassination attempt because 'he's not the sitting president'

"Donald Trump will likely be under an increased security detail next time he visits his Florida golf course, after Secret Service agents were forced to intercept a second apparent assassination attempt on the property's perimeter.

"Palm Beach County Sheriff Ric Bradshaw said Mr Trump's status as a former president meant his security detail was limited, compared to what it would have been during his presidency."

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 02:41 PM

I saw a brief excerpt of comments by a Security chief (I think) who said that as a former President, Trump had a limited security detail but if they were protecting a current President the whole perimeter would have been guarded.

This article has just appeared and will be updated:

Donald Trump's alleged would-be assassin appears in Florida court on gun charges

I don't think the guy had a chance to fire because the Security guys saw the rifle barrel and fired off some shots and then chased him in his car and caught him.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 02:14 PM

I’m seeing suggestions that this latest ‘assassination attempt’ was no such thing, that it was staged to try to draw attention away from Agent Orange’s disastrous ‘cat and laser pointer’ performance in the TV debate, and get sympathy from voters. I try not to be drawn in to conspiracy-theories, but this one sounds distinctly possible AFAIC.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Sep 24 - 10:58 AM

A man stepped up to the perimeter fence at Trump's golf course in Florida and when Secret Service spotted the end of a rifle poking through the cyclone fencing they shot at it. They guy escaped, was detected (via a phone photo someone took at the time) and captured on the highway shortly after. Associated Press updated story. We don't know if that man, who is apparently from Hawaii, got off any shots or only Trump's security team did. He's alive so there will no doubt be a story to tell one of these days.

Security folks try not to close down every venue visited by candidates but they do vet them and have a presence. Since the Pennsylvania shooting there have been bulletproof glass barriers in front of both Trump and Harris when they speak. If you have a candidate who does the same thing over and over that pretty well makes it predictable that (for example) you might find him at one of his golf courses. That applies to harming him or protecting him, so it is frankly surprising that someone once again got this close.

Regardless of what a cretin Trump is, we don't resolve our presidential elections with a bullet. He needs to survive this so he can go to prison (at which time they will be sure he's so well protected there won't be a fellow inmate with a shank to do him in.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 01:59 PM

Thanks for the link, Bill D.

I have been wondering for a while whether the genuine Republican party strategists are hoping Trump loses this election, to get rid of him from the party and get it back on track. Letting Laura Loomer into the inner circle might be part of that strategy. As stated in that article, Trump risks losing two key states by aligning himself with her racist and whacky, conspiracy theory attitudes.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 12:24 PM

The White House staff routinely used a process of delaying any time he made some hair-brained request. He generally forgot, or some other shiny object caught his eye. Otherwise they would have to talk him out of it (very persuasively and flattering about it).

You may have to click past a paywall or a cookie query, but this Vox article about the "Goldwater Rule" is interesting. This is extracted from the 2017 piece:

Fact magazine called this “the most intensive character analysis ever made of a living human being.” What it was: a complete embarrassment to the field of psychiatry and the beginning of the end for Fact. After his election loss, Goldwater successfully sued the magazine for libel; the $75,000 settlement put the small publication out of business.

And the episode compelled the APA’s ethics committee to ban its members from making future diagnoses about public figures in the press.

It only applies to card-carrying APA psychiatrists. It doesn’t apply to psychologists, social workers, or New York Times columnist David Brooks. In February, a psychologist told me with deadly seriousness, “This is the worst case I have seen in my career,” regarding Trump and a diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder.

So while claims about the president’s mental health have been made by just about every other group of person on earth, psychiatrists are discouraged from jumping in, even to correct the record.

Trump's niece is a psychologist, so isn't bound by this restriction in sharing her observations about her uncle Donald.

There's a short video that pops up on Instagram occasionally with a few well-regarded psychiatrists and psychoanalysts who have decided to disregard the Goldwater Rule for the protection of the country and pronounce Trump unfit. If I see it again I'll grab a link and share it.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 08:41 AM

He simply keeps around him those people, no matter how crazy, who agree with him and/or play to his ego.
   Laura Loomer is gonna be one more albatross.

She worries his allies.

I and a few others have said for a long time that he doesn't care about "being president". He is running to stay out of prison. When he had 4 years, he seldom read briefings and delegated the work to underlings.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 06:05 AM

It will be difficult for her not to look clever when she is compared to Trump!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 05:50 AM

Seems to me that Kamala Harris won't win by being seen as a clever-clogs. She'll win, if she does, by explaining simply an ongoing plan for a decent, liveable life for ordinary people, starting on the day she's elected president and has the actual power to implement it, rather than just signing off on her boss's decisions as when vice-president.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Sep 24 - 05:36 AM

Are they going to race?

All I know is - never bet on the white guy.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 04:27 PM

I've said before that Trump doesn't smile, but take a look at the third photo on that news article page on (Oz) ABC. He has a big, satisfied smile there. Nudge, nudge, wink, wink, say no more!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 03:35 PM

”I forgot to say that Laura Loomer was also mentioned in passing on the same show and my first thought was that she will be the mother of his next offspring.”

I can’t imagine what kind of woman could bear to even think of allowing herself to be mauled by that utterly repulsive specimen. Absolutely vomit-inducing.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 03:20 PM

I forgot to say that Laura Loomer was also mentioned in passing on the same show and my first thought was that she will be the mother of his next offspring.

An (Oz) ABC news article:

Who is Laura Loomer the far-right activist Republicans fear is influencing Donald Trump with 'garbage' tactics?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 03:11 PM

Regarding the chasing the laser pointer, I re-watched the Oz TV show Planet America to find the two quotes I mentioned previously.

Brett Doster, a Republican Political Strategist was interviewed. A couple of quotes from him (which I took down so they are not necessarily word-for-word accurate):

"...Harris was talking policy, then she would have this kind of drive-by attack on Trump to goad him into something about something he is sensitive about so that when it was his turn for rebuttal he was drawn into talking about rally sizes, not about the policy thing'"

Doster also said, "I thought that Harris did get [Trump] sidetracked a number of times ... [ e.g. rally sizes and people staying or leaving] ... Trump does want to chase the shiny objects. She laid some tidbits out for him." He said Trump missed some opportunities and he did need to be a bit stronger with her.

The other person interviewed on the show was Steve Maviglio, a Democratic Political Consultant, who referred to Trump's sweaty upper lip when asked what the social media meme image would be from the debate.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 03:10 PM

Apparently Trump will say anything and associate with any sort of lunatic in his desperate plight to stay out of prison. This ride is going to get a whole lot rougher.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 02:29 PM

The best comment I’ve seen about the TV debate is, “She was like a childless cat-woman with a laser-pointer, and he chased the dot the whole night!”.

Magic!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 01:15 PM

Give him enough rope...

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 12:55 PM

Bill D, doing something is better than doing nothing.

Meanwhile, the newscycle churns on and since I last posted conspiracy theorist extraordinaire Laura Loomer has become an item - so toxic that original Trump-supporting bigots Senator Lindsey Graham and Marjorie Taylor Greene pronounced her a bigot. She seems to be traveling in the Trump entourage at the moment, including to the 9/11 ceremonies in New York City on Wednesday. Among other conspiracies, Loomer claims 9/11 was an "inside job."

I noticed a post on Threads this morning that suggests (based on a photo of Trump and Loomer standing in close physical contact) that "they're a couple." Bill Maher made the suggestion recently (along with posting a photo of the pair standing so close that her right boob rests on his left arm). The Daily Beast has an article that says Trump met with Loomer last year but his campaign co-manager Susie Wiles "made a point of sitting in so that she could nix the hiring." The have a different close-proximity photo of the pair. PoliticusUSA suggests that Bill Maher has intentionally started this conspiracy theory about Trump and Loomer to punk Loomer.

This from the New York Times: Who Is Laura Loomer, the Far-Right Activist Who Traveled With Trump?
After fellow Republicans criticized her appearance on the trail, noting her history of offensive remarks, former President Donald J. Trump praised her but later said he disagreed with some of her statements.

Ms. Loomer, 31, part of a generation of web-savvy right-wing influencers, decided to trademark the term she had coined for her signature move of ambushing people with unexpected, often embarrassing questions. She called it getting “Loomered.”

Already a well-known figure among internet obsessives thanks to her anti-Muslim activism, undercover sting operations and web-savvy political stunts, Ms. Loomer found herself at the center of the presidential campaign this week when she traveled with former President Donald J. Trump. She went with him to Philadelphia for the presidential debate, and then accompanied him to Sept. 11 memorial events in New York City and Shanksville, Pa., which drew pointed criticism from Democrats and Republicans because she had previously called Sept. 11 “an inside job.”

The Times and other big news outlets won't touch the affair suggestion, which is probably just as well. The closest you'll find in the Times is that Loomer "accompanied" Trump to the debate and the NYC event.

That said, in the past when affairs had an impact on politics, Democratic Senator Gary Hart tanked his presidential chances by having an affair (the fool challenged the press to prove anything and they did.) And Democrat John Edwards did something similar. Teflon Don once again seems to defy the community standards regarding how his relationships are represented. Whatever they are (well, except of course Stormy Daniels hit him in the courtroom, as did E. Jean Carroll.)

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 08:57 AM

I read the bit about the "National Popular Vote Interstate Compact".

I won't hold my breath because it also involves getting states to agree to something almost as hard as a Constitutional Amendment.

"Together, states in the compact have 195 electoral votes. So we just need a few more states with at least 75 electors to join the compact and it’s done."
Right.."Naturally, this plan will face legal challenges. There are a lot of powerful interests who stand to benefit by maintaining the current system."

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 02:14 AM

I should have specified in my previous post that Bryant, the Roosevelts, Tuman and Johnson were all Democrats.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Neil D
Date: 14 Sep 24 - 01:58 AM

The first step in fixing the Electoral College is getting rid of it. Because of it, the last 2 Republican presidents lost the popular vote. In a sane country that would have been a loss. And both of those presidents were a disaster for our country. Republicans haven't won a popular vote since 1988 and yet controlled the White House for 20 of those 36 years. Tell me how that is fair.
Some of our British friends still seem a bit confused about the sea change that happened in American politics, how the party of Lincoln became the one embraced by Southerners and other racists. Let's start with Eleanor Roosevelt the most activist first lady of them all, who did whatever she could to help the black community. To quote fictional TV redneck Archie Bunker: "We didn't even know the blacks were there till Eleanor Roosevelt went and found them". Some historians credit William Jennings Bryant, Three-time candidate for President who around 1900 advocated for government to play a role in defending equal rights. But as late as 1920 we had a Democratic president who was a white southern racist. Flash forward to Roosevelt's successor Harry Truman who desegregated the military by executive order (meaning he knew he would never get the votes in congress but as Commander-in-Chief he had enough control over the military to do it without support of congress). This split the party with the southerners setting themselves up as Dixiecrats and running their own candidate, Strom Thurmond, in the 1948 election. Thurmon lost to Truman but he got a million votes. After that election most of the Dixiecrats returned to the Democratic fold until the mid 60s. In 64 and 65 Democratic president Lyndon B Johnson signed into law the Civil Rights Act and the Voting Rights Act aimed at bringing minority voters into the body politic. This was kind of the last straw for the South and Johnson, himself a southerner said after signing the CRA,
“I think we just delivered the South to the Republican party for a long time to come.” And sure enough, in the very next national election Nixon's Republican Party developed their "Southern Strategy" by supporting Southern causes like segregation, state's rights and "Law and order". Critics called it "dog whistle politics" but it worked and Republicans have exploited this divisive strategy every since then. During this time the party became not only more racist but more right wing as well. And that brings us to now when a megalomaniac
is employing the southern strategy on steroids, bent on tearing our country apart.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Sep 24 - 08:07 PM

Robert Reich was the Secretary of Labor in the Clinton administration, and like Clinton, is a polished and expert explainer. The First Step to Fixing the Electoral College is an article topic he as been talking about for a while. It involves the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, that would defer to the popular vote in each state.

Here's a video from his Twitter (X) feed that describes it if you don't want to read about it.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 24 - 05:11 PM

The UK have nothing remotely resembling the electoral college. First psst the post does have flaws but at least each vote counts the same.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 24 - 04:42 PM

same As uk unless you have PR

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 24 - 01:02 PM

"... it was the Dems who put the system in place when it suited them."

That was when the "Dems" were like the Repubs now. The electoral college was blatantly a racist vehicle when it was created in order to increase population counts for southern states.
"The Electoral College was officially selected as the means of electing president towards the end of the Constitutional Convention due to pressure from slave states wanting to increase their voting power (since they could count slaves as 3/5 of a person when allocating electors) and by small states who increased their power due to the minimum of three electors per state"

Now it serves no purpose except to keep the south with more power than their actual votes. Trump was elected even with fewer total votes nationally... and only by a few thousand in several states.

   Since it is still in the Constitution, it would be almost impossible in today's divisive world to repeal it. We STILL have a situation where it is possible to lose the election while still winning a good majority of national votes. That's what States Rights gives us... bah!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Sep 24 - 10:11 AM

> [Trump]'s not as dumb as I thought he was.

It took a day or two, which to me suggests it took that long for him to be reprogrammed.

Oh, and further thanks to robomatic for the historical background. I'll give it time to properly sink in, lest I shoot off my mouth* from the hip.

* Cursor?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Sep 24 - 09:55 AM

Why oh why do people in the Meeja insist on politicians being monomaniacs? Changing one's mind in the light of changing circumstances shows open-mindedness and humility .... oh: methinks I've just answered myself.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Sep 24 - 07:06 AM

Thanks for the explanation robomatic.

The complaint was that the electoral college favours the smaller states and gives the Republicans an advantage. My point was that, whatever their politics now, it was the Dems who put the system in place when it suited them. I think that the electoral college is a very poor, undemocratic way of electing a President but the Dems can't complain if the system they favoured has come back to bite them now that they have swung to the opposite political position.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Sep 24 - 05:34 AM

VP Harris' facial expressions and body language on split screen were priceless. She was reacting to his exaggerations, inanities and outright lies in real time the way I do and I suppose the way a lot of other folks do as well.

I don't think I've ever heard a Presidential candidate on a debate stage utter something as vile and shabby as when Trump, in response to a query on a remark he made to a black audience in July, said this-
“All I can say is I read where she was not Black, that she put out — I’ll say that. And then I read that she was Black and that’s okay,” he said of Harris, who is Black and Indian. “Either one was okay with me. That’s up to her.”

The race-baiting was one thing but,
"that she put out". How very presidential.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Sep 24 - 02:39 AM

I am not a fan of Trump, however I think the Presenters showed lack of impartiality.
Trump made a vastly exaggerated and geographically incorrect statement about eating pets, when it appears to have been an isolated case of pet abuse, that sort of remark only backfires on him.
Harris came over as a bit smirky and smarmy.The whole debate was a bit of a waste of everyones time.Trump of course played the anti immigrant card

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 08:04 PM

I just pulled up Google News for the US and the third story (behind Hurricane Francine hitting Louisiana and the North Dakota abortion ban being overturned) is news that Harris is making a play for North Carolina votes and Trump is shoring up support in Arizona, where he lost by a fairly narrow margin last time. There's plenty of infighting going on in the GOP right now as various influencers vie for his attention or to cut out others. The basic deal is that whoever Trump last listened to is the one he quotes if he is asked a question.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:30 PM

On an Oz TV show called Planet America, one of the people interviewed said that the image he expects will go viral from the debate is Trump's sweaty upper lip. I'm not sure whether it was the same man who said that Harris was cleverly throwing "shiny things" towards Trump which he found impossible to ignore, i.e. baiting him to respond in his usual, predictable ways.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:26 PM

He's not as dumb as I thought he was.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:18 PM

Donald Trump on his Truth Social account is now stating
There Will Be No Third Debate.

That's third for Trump, second for Harris, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: robomatic
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 03:17 PM

Doug Chadwick:

The Democratic Party is I think the oldest continuously 'maintained' party in the United States. It was originally titled the "Democratic-Republican" party (not sure about the hyphen). In the early part of the 19th Century there were other strong parties, I believe there was a Whig Party and there several siginficant party developments that rose and faded. One of them was an anti-Immigrant party that was unoffically called The KNow Nothings, which has some resonance today in the TRMP folder.

The Republican party that we know today (sort of) was established in the latter half of the nineteenth century specifically to foster abolition and its first nominee for President was Abraham Lincoln. The Democratic Party split between Nor th and South during the Civil War. After the War it became a hodge podge which I cannot quantify, but in the mid 20th Century it underwent a large dos-i-do, by which I mean a circular dance, with the Republicans. It took a couple of generations because Democrats had a reliable vote for decades, called the 'Solid South'. If you follow American politics of this era, remember that Theodore 'Teddy' Roosevelt, was a liberal in many matters, and a Republican. His distant cousin Frankline Roosevelt, was a Democrat, and definitely a liberal of his era. He was considered a radical by many of the big bnusinessmen of his time. In racial matters, the WW2 era of Democrats were sort of split, with many in power gradually or in the case of FDR's wife Eleonor, less gradually, using their personal and politcal power to advance the causes of social agendas and racial progress. And after FDR's sudden death, his Vice President who became President, Harry Truman, de-segregating parts are all of the U.S. Military. Lydon Johnson made it a great part of his administration to advance the cause of multi-culturalism both in race issues and immigration issues. By the late 1960s, the Republican Party and the Democratic Party had done a major 'switcheroo'.

It is important to mention that a further change has occurred post Reagan where the Republicans have gone further to the right then ever. Prior to Reagan, you could get significant adherence to liberal ideas without embarassment from such well known Republican leaders as members of the Rockefeller family and New York Mayor Lindsay. President Richard Nixon was the originator of American's China policy and the Environmental Protection Agency was created under his administration.

There are still significant developments that occur as a result of cross party cooperation. When I was in the engineering business I learned of significant legislation that had been happening over the pat decades to result in major changes to diesel generator pollution improvements which were well thought out and are even now improving our atomosphere.

If you are not familiar with American Politics this might be unknown to you, and many Americans are that ignorant. Occasionally Republicans of this day refer to themselves as "The Party of Lincoln" but in my ears there is always a derisive laugh at that line. It doesn't happen that often now, becuase many of them, particularly the TRMP induced ignaramuses of this era, don't know their own proper history and would prefer to brag on Ronald Reagan anyway.

The reality is more interesting, hopeful, complicated, and yet extremely ridiculous. . .

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 12:34 PM

Depends on what "end the war in Ukraine" means.
Does Ukraine get its territory back and a guarantee that the Russians will not invade again, plus reparation for rebuilding all that's been destroyed? That would be an end. But giving a bit here and a bit there - that's just rewarding invaders.
I dunno; the American Republican party just seems to have got… odd.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 12:07 PM

gillymor, Swift's announcement was on her social media page so her gazillions of fans would have seen it very quickly. I think it was good that she jumped in straight away. Her endorsement was immediate.

Trump's vow to end the war in Ukraine means, in fact, that he will suck up to Putin and let him take over Ukraine in whatever dastardly way he chooses. It's not a positive promise but a threat. I still see in my mind's eye the contemptuous smirk Putin had on his face when he met Trump, presumably because he knew how easily he could manipulate him.

Rain Dog, the problem with the debate format is the time limit, and the pressure to choose the most important statements which can be said most succinctly and with the most impact. I think that if Harris does some media interviews she will have a better chance to explain her policies in more depth. I hope she does do some interviews, but wait and see.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Rain Dog
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 11:12 AM

Here in the UK some media outlets reported that Harris ignored questions about her various changes of policy.

From the Politico website:

'I don’t know if she will regret it, but Harris still left some unanswered questions about positions she’s changed over the years. Trump brought it up over and over, she was asked directly about some of those from Linsey Davis and the folks who still have questions are left with “my values haven’t changed.”'

I did not see the debate myself.

Talk is that this election will rest on the outcome of a small number of votes in swing states. Like a lot of others I am hoping that Trump does not win.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: gillymor
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 09:48 AM

I can't help but think that Swift's endorsement would have made a bigger splash if she'd done it during a less crowded news cycle, it just didn't get the coverage on yesterday morning's news programs that it deserved with all that was going on. That said, it was her's to make and I'm glad she made it.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 08:59 AM

Well, Sandman... her policies are thoroughly documented and available. If you want details, YOU do the searches. It's not my job to make lists for you that you would no doubt dismiss.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:43 AM

It's treacherous for a campaign when people begin to see their candidate as the frontrunner - because the thought of "they don't need my vote" can come along if there are hurdles to voting, ...

On the other side, there is the thought that 'If I vote for the loser, then my vote will have been wasted'. If people are told often enough that a candidate can't win, even when it's not true, then the chances are that they won't win.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Sep 24 - 04:22 AM

Bill D, Please tell us Harris ideas?is she going to cut defence spending?

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 07:05 PM

Yep. It ain't over till the fat orange defeated jailbird sings.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 06:17 PM

It's treacherous for a campaign when people begin to see their candidate as the frontrunner - because the thought of "they don't need my vote" can come along if there are hurdles to voting, such as getting registered, getting an absentee ballot, or getting to the polls (especially if there is weather involved). It's so important for people to do what they can to vote early if it is available, then sit back and watch the results. Keep in mind, the only "poll" that is important is the voting booth.

It's best for Harris/Walz to maintain an underdog stance.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 04:43 PM

My key thought again while watching the debate is: underestimate her at your peril, Trump!

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 04:04 PM

I was watching an interview with several undecided voters, and one young woman said when she was explaining why she was probably supporting Trump, "I just don't think she has actual ideas that will make things better."
   This is typical for Republicans to denigrate Democratic ideas. They just throw out generalized complaints and seldom mention any specifics. I guess they learned this from Trump.
When I listen to interviews with most "progressive" politicians, they usually explain why they hold that particular view. On Fox news, they do the usual ambiguous accusations, and then make sarcastic and irrelevant remarks about liberal viewpoints.
   I wonder where that young woman has been that she has totally missed Harris's ideas and explanations.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Helen
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 03:00 PM

Thanks for the extra info about Taylor Swift, Stilly.

I think her timing was perfect and her influence, especially on young women, will be crucial. As I said before, she acted ethically by not telling her fans who to vote for but just encouraging them to vote.

I will watch the rest of the debate today but Trump drew the short straw by having to debate on ABC America. :-D

They fact-checked him on his outrageous claims and were firm but fair in moderating the debate.

When I watch and listen to Trump my overwhelming thought is that his prime motivation is to stay out of jail.

I also think he "fact" checked Harris on how much he inherited from his father. According to him, he didn't inherit $400 million, but only a "fraction" of that. What, 5%, 55%, 99.9%? Over 100%? Any middle American or working class American who inherited even 5% would have life-changing outcomes.

Subject: RE: BS: American Presidential race 2024
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Sep 24 - 01:06 PM

I'll have to disagree with the two of you. Just after the debate had ended Swift launched her endorsement, and will have caught the attention of millions of young fans and their parents. I think her middle paragraph speaks to the timing:

Recently I was made aware that AI of ‘me’ falsely endorsing Donald Trump’s presidential run was posted to his site. It really conjured up my fears around AI, and the dangers of spreading misinformation. It brought me to the conclusion that I need to be very transparent about my actual plans for this election as a voter. The simplest way to combat misinformation is with the truth.

In order to let her fans have accurate information, so they're not seeing her tangled in confusing AI versions in the future, launching this endorsement now trumps (!) any GOP application of fake endorsements. It is crystal clear. And love or hate her music, she is a principled young woman with great influence who is trying to make a difference. She's the one who donates hugely to food banks in any community where she performs, who pays her entire staff and road crew well, and who makes a lot of charitable donations based upon circumstances she encounters.

Harris got his goat - in particular when she invited people to attend one of his rallies. Jon Stewart (The Daily Show) got the screen shot when she scored a direct hit on his ego and he said he had to "clarify" and talk about his events, and then, bizarrely, about dogs being eaten by immigrants in Ohio. He's a lunatic.

I rest my case.