BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Aethelric
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 07:42 AM

DtG and Sandman

The Thought Police will be knocking at your door!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 04:26 AM

I agree with above post

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Aug 25 - 03:26 AM

We don't have an equivalent of the ICE thugs. Yet. We don't need them when over 500 people can be arrested at a peaceful demo for simply wearing the wrong t-shirts or waving the wrong banner.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 02:17 PM

My childhood allotment memories were altogether different.

I was 6 years old, and dug up veg in an allotment. Taking it to a door, I asked "Buy some vegetables, mister?" "Arr boy, they look good 'uns!"

It soon came to light that the man had bought his own veg for half a crown!

I had to give the money back and was given the slipper by my mum.

The good old days!

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 12:21 PM

Good to hear Dave. I have very fond memories of going with my grandad to his allotment (or ‘up garden’ as he referred to it) and ‘helping’ him. I use the term ‘helping’ very loosely - I doubt he felt he was being helped, but he was very patient with his little grandson! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 06:53 AM

Allotment ownership and usage still going strong here in Airedale

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 06:05 AM

Allotment-wise, it's the same here in Colsterworth.

We had two allotment sites, one at the southern edge and another at the northern. But nature has claimed them back.

I'll say that people lost interest but my dad would've said "They see it as being too much like hard work, lad".

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 05:14 AM

Our local council (swings between Tory and Liberal control) has sold off most of our local allotments. In fairness to the council, they were mostly un-let, un-tended, and overgrown, neglected wildernesses. Now, at least they are being used, although not for growing food.

Allotment-keeping, over the past thirty years or so, seems very much to have fallen from favour in this area.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Aug 25 - 03:15 AM

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3dpkvkkjjno link to BBC About labour selling off allotments

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 04 Aug 25 - 10:37 AM

Good point, Dave, and well worth considering :)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 25 - 10:22 AM

Fred - Yes, I can see where you are coming from but please don't give up on voting. Use it or lose it as they say :-) If you cannot vote for someone vote against them. There are usualy some candidates at most elections that can rattle the bars of the big boys. If that fails - go and spoil your vote by writing what you have just said across it. Spoiled votes have to be read and counted.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Aug 25 - 10:19 AM

I'm pretty sure that is part of what I said, Dick

I hope that the new movement pulls politics in general back towards the centre. We have been swinging far too much to the right over the last few years and we need pulling back.

And I would repeat that it is not a new party but rather an alliance of other progresive, as opposed to conservative (small c), factions within government. Corbyn has also said that it will be led by the members rather than from the top so I am not sure if 'Corbyn's party' will ever be the correct term. I must say that I like the idea of an alliance against the stodge that mainstream politics has become. I would like to see it work but only time will tell.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Aug 25 - 02:38 AM

They have not joined the party, they have signed up for future updates. It is an impressive number though.

The following article is worth a read

How significant is Corbyn and Sultana’s 600,000 sign ups to their new party?

Who remembers Enough is Enough?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Aug 25 - 04:31 PM

Dave,apparently 600 thousand have joined the new party, PRESUMABLY they think the Labour government is too right wing, not too left wing

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 03 Aug 25 - 03:18 PM

I've said it here before, I don't vote and have no intention of doing. It's been brought about by politicians saying one thing and doing another, bringing about a lack of trust.

If I were to vote, I'd want to know what I was voting FOR.

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Aug 25 - 12:05 PM

I hope that the new movement pulls politics in general back towards the centre. We have been swinging far too much to the right over the last few years and we need pulling back. I don't see a severe swing to the left happening and I do not think it would be good if that did happen. History has proven that extremes do not work. Cooperation and compromise between all parties seems a good idea with responsible capitalism, workers rights and social justice being high on the agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Aug 25 - 01:33 AM

There are many people who want to see a redistribution of wealth,they are apprantly joining the new party in droves

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 11:47 AM

7 May 2026, Same day for Scottish Parliament elections, and some English local elections delayed from 2025 (reasons for the delays are subject to debate)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 07:01 AM

Ooooh - Didn't know that. Thanks Nigel

I'll order some popcorn :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 06:09 AM

Dave: Of course we will not be able to tell until there have been a few local elections and the real test will be the next GE. I cannot see any minority party, however popular, getting enough support to form a government in 4 years time.

Of course, the Welsh Senedd elections next year could provide an earlier test. Labour have led the Senedd since its inception in 1999.
If that ceases to be the case it will be a major upset, and could be a guide to what will happen in UK a few years later.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 05:19 AM

Could be interesting if a right wing mob and a left wing mob both become popular. Things have swung to the right becuase both major parties have altered their policies in line with the populism of deform UK. Will the new alliance cause a swing back to the left? Sadly, Fartarse has a start on whoever leads the new lot and the tosspots who own the press are only interested in keeping their fortunes intact so they love the chaos that he causes.

Of course we will not be able to tell until there have been a few local elections and the real test will be the next GE. I cannot see any minority party, however popular, getting enough support to form a government in 4 years time.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jul 25 - 02:55 AM

link from council estate media about growth of new party corbyn and sultana
https://www.facebook.com/CouncilEstateMedia

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Jul 25 - 02:19 PM

”I suspect that any seats that Labour might lose to Corbyn's new party would be more than outweighed by seats lost by the Conservatives to Reform.”
(Doug Chadwick)

You have a very good point there, Doug. If the new Party grow into a substantial, credible organisation (and I see no reason why they shouldn’t), the next GE could be very interesting indeed!
Backwoodsman

And that's before counting in the seats that Labour could lose to Reform! (or those the Conservatives could lose . . .)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jul 25 - 04:21 AM

Yes, I agree.
Doug Chadwick suspects, excellent

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 26 Jul 25 - 02:48 AM

you would know

No, Sandman, I don't know. That is why I said "I suspect ...." and "If Labour lose ....".

I stand by my comment that the Labour government's performance to date, under Starmer, has been lacklustre.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Jul 25 - 02:10 AM

The media support establishment politics, not radical politicians

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 06:34 PM

Bear in mind that the "new party" seems likely to be an alliance of small progressive factions and, as I said earlier, that should be welcomed. However the fact that the media are already lining it up to fail by calling it Corbyn's party is not a good thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 05:14 PM

”I suspect that any seats that Labour might lose to Corbyn's new party would be more than outweighed by seats lost by the Conservatives to Reform.”

You have a very good point there, Doug. If the new Party grow into a substantial, credible organisation (and I see no reason why they shouldn’t), the next GE could be very interesting indeed!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 04:44 PM

you would know

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 12:47 PM

I think they are likely to win a number of seats enough to prevent Labour be in government

I suspect that any seats that Labour might lose to Corbyn's new party would be more than outweighed by seats lost by the Conservatives to Reform. If Labour lose the next election, it will have more to do with their lacklustre performance this time round.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 12:07 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman - PM
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 03:09 AM

How much of a threat, to Starmer, is the new party led by Corbyn?
I think they are likely to win a number of seats enough to prevent Labour be in government

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Fred
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 08:03 AM

I could probably think of a few but I value my membership - to this forum, I mean :)

-F

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 05:18 AM

FFS Dave, don’t - there are people out there daft enough to go for that…!! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Jul 25 - 03:29 AM

They are asking for suggestions for a name

Party McPartyface anyone? :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Jul 25 - 09:05 AM

Corbyn confirms new party
per BBC news

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 25 - 11:52 AM

John Crace of the Guardian made me laugh because I had not heard not so Cleverly bing referred to as Sir Jim Dim before :-)

Seems to support my previous thoughts anyway

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Jul 25 - 02:58 AM

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jul/22/completely-unprecedented-wes-streeting-resident-doctors-strike?utm_source=firefo
link to Guardian article about Doctors and strike

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Jul 25 - 06:08 PM

I am not a big a fan of Angela Rayner, other than I think she is more left than the rest of Starmer's crew and she supported my choice (Rebecca Long-Bailey) in the leaderhip election. But I am looking forward to seeing her in action against James (not so) Cleverly. I suspect mincemeat will be made and Badenuff will soon regret her choice.

Just my opinion of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 10:58 AM

Yes Dick, all PMs have made mistakes but not all have been inept. And please provide the source of your C&Ps. The above is obviously not your own work.

I located a Guardian article which I think provides a good balance of views.

Sub title is "Risk-taker, pragmatist, placater – or all of the above? Six leading historians assess Cameron’s aims, achievements and failures as prime minister"

I don't think it is particulary an appeal to authority as it does give half a dozen different views

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 10:43 AM

David Cameron, the former Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, made several significant mistakes and miscalculations during his time in office (2010-2016) that had lasting impacts on British politics. Here are some of the most notable:

    The 2015 EU Referendum: Cameron's decision to hold an in-out referendum on EU membership in 2016 was intended to settle divisions within the Conservative Party and appease Eurosceptics. However, he underestimated the strength of the Leave campaign and the discontent among voters regarding the EU, which ultimately led to the Brexit vote and significant political turmoil.
    Handling of the Scottish Independence Referendum: While the 2014 referendum ultimately resulted in a vote to remain in the UK, Cameron's approach to the campaign was criticized. Many believed he did not sufficiently engage with Scottish issues or the concerns of the Scottish electorate, which fueled nationalist sentiment and led to increased calls for independence.
    Austerity Measures: Cameron's government implemented severe austerity measures following the 2008 financial crisis. While aimed at reducing the national deficit, these policies led to widespread public discontent, protests, and criticism regarding their impact on public services and social welfare. The long-term economic effects and social consequences of these measures have been debated extensively.
    Failure to Control Party Factions: Cameron struggled to manage the divisions within the Conservative Party, particularly between moderates and hardline Eurosceptics. This division became increasingly pronounced leading up to the Brexit referendum and contributed to his eventual resignation.
    The "Big Society" Initiative: Cameron's vision of the "Big Society," which aimed to empower communities and reduce the role of the state, was seen by many as vague and poorly executed. It failed to gain traction and was criticized for lacking a clear strategy or sufficient funding.
    Response to the Syrian Civil War and Refugee Crisis: Cameron faced criticism for his handling of the Syrian conflict, particularly regarding military interventions and the UK's response to the refugee crisis. His decision to intervene in Libya in 2011 also faced backlash due to the subsequent instability in the region.
    Overconfidence in Polling: Leading up to the 2015 general election, Cameron and his advisors were overly confident in their polling data, believing they could secure a majority. While they did win a majority, the confidence in polling led to complacency in campaign strategy and engagement with key voter groups.

These miscalculations and mistakes contributed to significant political challenges during and after Cameron's tenure, particularly with the rise of Brexit and the subsequent leadership changes within the Conservative Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 10:23 AM

Cameron failed abysmally with the Brixit fiasco but until then I don't recall him being particularly inept - It was like Blair's Iraq cock up. One mistake does not make them inept but Johnson did not get anything right and I don't think any Prime Minister since has done much better.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 05:23 AM

I think Cameron started the slide downwards

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Jul 25 - 04:55 AM

I don't think we can blame the Tories for Starmer's ineptitude but I do think that Johnson started to downward slide of bad leaders. Hopefully the next PM, of whatever flavour, will not be a bumbling populist that has no idea how to govern. That rules out Badenuff of course...

We had that dreadful time when the blonde buffoon's premiership coincided with the turnips first presidential term in the US. Surely that perfect storm can never happen again can it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 04:54 PM

Starmer's ineptitude is his own fault Every body is responsible for their own actions including Backwoodsman

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 03:05 PM

Majoc: "Keir Starmer's govt suffers from the major problem that they were in opposition when de Pfeffel's shower were the alleged Government. The best whetstone to sharpen a party-in-opposition against is a competent party-in-power."

So even Starmer's ineptitude is the fault of the Conservatives?
What a strange world you live in.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 02:56 PM

GTFU.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 02:08 PM

you used the plural word "us ". that is plural, which suggest you are representing other people as well as yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 01:41 PM

”Who else do you speak for? are you a member of the reform party, who are these other people you represent”

I haven’t claimed to speak for or represent anyone else - I simply proposed a possible hypothesis - but thanks for confirming my suspicion that you’re just pulling your usual trolling stunts and looking for a fight. Tough shit - you’ll have to find another victim.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 01:33 PM

FWIW, my opinion is the same as DtG’s - that there is insufficient firm data to enable anyone to form an opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit and other UK politics thread 4
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Jul 25 - 01:33 PM

Perhaps neither have the rest of us. QUOTE BACK WOODSMAN.
Who else do you speak for? are you a member of the reform party, who are these other people you represent