Origins: Snaidhm an Ghrá

Subject: RE: Origins: Snaidhm an Ghrá
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 11:35 PM

Graiméir Ghaeilge na mBráthar Mionúr

Are you the author of that?

Subject: RE: Origins: Snaidhm an Ghrá
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 07:17 PM

I don't know the song.

I'd be cautious about saying this symbolism is Irish, English or anyoneish. The story of the red rose and the white rising from the graves of the lovers and twining seems to come up in everything from Middle Eastern to Viking to Chinese songs and stories!

Subject: RE: Origins: Snaidhm an Ghrá
From: Peace
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 05:55 PM

It appears (I think) in "Songs of the Irish : an anthology of Irish folk music and poetry with English verse translations"
by Donal Joseph O'Sullivan. That is from a Google search, and I have never seen the book. The site indicates the book might be available in librairies, so perhaps a search there would be helpful. I can't be of much more use than that. Best wishes with your search.

Subject: Origins: Snaidhm an Ghrá
From: GUEST,Giolla Brighde Ó hEodhasa
Date: 01 Jul 07 - 05:32 PM

Hi,
Has anybody ever heard of the above song, Snaidhm an Ghrá (The Love Knot)? I came across it in Dánta Ban: Poems of Irish Women Early and Modern (Selected and translated by P.L.Henry, The Mercier Press, 1991)
The above editor says that it was a Kerry version of a Cork song where the girl's lover, being poor, was rejected by her family who married her to a rich man. On the morning of the wedding word was brought to her that her lover lay critically ill. She went to visit him but he died while she was saying the last verse and she lay down and died also. 'Although they were buried at some distance from each other, a tree grew up out of each grave and bent towards each other until ultimately finger-like antennae from each interlocked. Hence the title Snaidhm an Ghrá' The editor attributes the symbolism to an English song tradition(pages 132-135). I have some questions, however.

1. Is it not more likely that the symbolism is very, if not quintessentially, Irish rather than English? There is indisputable evidence from throughout Ireland that traditional Irish marriage involved the bride arriving on a white horse and the couple being united by a love knot.

2. Does anybody know when this song was written? Would it have been written originally as a poem as long ago as the sixteenth century? (my evidence for weddings involving the love knot dates to that century)

3. Due to each of the lovers having their own verses in the song, would this indicate that it was originally an agallamh beirte rather than a conventional ballad-type song, and if so would this have any bearing on the date of the song (or poem?)?

I am essentially seeking sixteenth century songs or poems, preferably of Gaelic or Norman origin in the Pale, so any suggestions will be very gratefully received. Thanks.