Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 06:43 PM

Hmmm, well, as a female who loves singing this song, I don't have any issue with the "men" bit, and wouldn't see any need to change the words. Nor would I change gender in other songs that are so-called "men's songs": if it's a good song, just sing it!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: bradfordian
Date: 28 Nov 19 - 05:38 PM

When we have a great song, why would anyone want to muck around with it?
We all know that the “folk process” spreads it’s tentacles all over the place!
And so it came to pass that some “folk music fans” have deemed that one song in particular merited a review of its exclusiveness/inclusiveness. The causes of the concerns appear to be the references to “men”, and a” Christian celebration” (Easter). There have been a couple of attempts to redress the issues. I was not convinced that either of these revisions quite achieved full inclusiveness.
In so far as this process has been initiated, I took some elements from the two variations that I am aware of, and added a little of my own.

So I give you my version of a hopefully inclusive “When all men sing” now retitled“When we all sing” (thanks to Lara, singing at the Merlin’s Rest) with apologies to the original lyricist “Scowie”

NB, when sung at my folk club, it did receive a two thirds approval.


WHEN WE ALL SING (K.Scowcroft, Derek Gifford) adapted with apologies to Scowie)

When snow transforms the hedgerow thorn
And frost engilds the berry
Good people true the fire logs hew
And in the Inns make merry
When singing all as with one voice
It seems the very walls rejoice
And merriment about does spring
When we all sing

Cho: Let everyone so pitch their song
To help their neighbour sing along
To each and all contentment bring
When we all sing   .

When lambs are seen and trees turn green
Come forth in bloom the daisies
For winters end our thanks we'll send
And as snows melt sing praises
Then with a will we always long
To raise our voices loud and strong
And welcome in, the vernal spring
When we all sing

When in the fields the scythe we wield
Then hear our summer sound
Women and men their lungs employ
Their songs they echo round
Rebound from hill and roof and spire
Starting lowly building higher
So surely then our scythe will swing
When we all sing.

When leaves they fall from elm tree tall
Then every back must bend
As young and old with courage bold
Their efforts they expend
Ensuring autumn's gifts are stowed
Afore cold winter wind is blowed
Then comes an end to foraging
When we all sing .

Sing songs in season every year
Some voices sweet with others strong
Gently round ascending
With harmonies a-blending
In unison pours forth the song
Uplifting beams of Inn or Hall
And shaking plaster from the wall
When we all sing

Bradfordian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 21 Oct 19 - 10:38 AM

thanks, Brian - massed morris!

When All Men Sing - Mike Nicholson with Hartley Morris Men and friends

For the uninitiated this is NOT a performance in the way you might expect. Many of these men hadn't met until the day before and despite singing many songs in the pub that night, it's unlikely they will EVER have all sung this together. No amplification - just recorded straight to a compact camera.

The wonderful Mike Nicholson singing "When All Men Sing" (Words by Keith Scowcroft, Tune by Derek Gifford) in the courtyard at Ightham Mote with Morris Men from all over the country who were attending the Hartley Ale.

For more info about us check out our website & facebook page Hartley Morris Men
https://www.facebook.com/hartley.morr...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: GUEST,Brian Grayson
Date: 21 Oct 19 - 08:03 AM

On Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UvBGKvW7xc)

When All Men Sing - Mike Nicholson with Hartley Morris Men and friends

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 20 Oct 19 - 11:54 PM

give him time ...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 20 Oct 19 - 08:12 AM

Hi Sandra,

I didn't notice him in the video! We have only had him for 4 months, so he isn't a fully folkified cat yet.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 17 Oct 19 - 04:48 PM

Very good. Congratulations.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 16 Oct 19 - 08:18 PM

excellent version, Daniel, but your cat didn't seem impressed!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: Daniel Kelly
Date: 16 Oct 19 - 06:33 AM

Several threads have spoken about a parody called 'when some men sing', does anyone have the lyrics? Sadly google is no help.

Great to read that Tom Hanson had already been doing this song for 10 years in 2007, he sang it again at the Bush Traditions Gathering this month, inspiring me to do this.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: GUEST,ketchdana
Date: 20 Jul 15 - 12:29 AM

The abc still does work, BUT you have to go through some hoops for abc to be used from a post on-screen:

1) Drag your mouse (highlight) the tune on the screen, beginning with the "X:" line, down to the
first blank line (which signals the end of the tune).

2) Paste (from the clipboard) to a new file, lets call it "whenallmensing.abc" (or whatever).

3) Edit that file, with a text editor (not a word processor) to:
        Edit out the initial spaces of every line of the tune.
        Especially the header lines starting with "X:", "T:", "K:" ...

4) Now the file should work just fine.
In fact it just did for me, using programs "abcm2ps" to create a post-script, printable file,
and "abc2midi" to make a midi file. Program "ps2pdf" will make a pdf from the ps file.
(I am only vaguely familiar with M.S.Windows.)

=Bob (somewhat of a command-line-junkie)

(semi-technical:) The reason that screen swipes of abc code don't work is that the "Reply to Thread"
box seems to put a blank after every <br>, which gets tacked to the front of the next line.
Whether or not you are using Automatic Linebreaks! The abc specs are very touchy about the header
lines beginning in column one. (Actually, the "note" lines work fine with initial spaces, but just
to keep things simple...)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 03:12 PM

It did work back in 2007 when Jake first posted it. I have a copy! It is usually sung in pretty free time, and this score has it in 2/4: I would have thought 6/4, but anyway, with a combination of the "dots" and the YouTubes, you should be able to work it out. Or you could just use Herga Kitty's notes (they are NOT chord symbols but actual notes) and then look at YouTube to get the timing.
PM me if you want me to send what I've got, but you'll need to be properly signed in to use the PM facility

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 02:56 PM

Checked the abc by Anglogeezer and it does not work sorry

Lots of youtube clips btw

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 02:49 PM

Robert if abc notation above is pasted into a reader you should get the music notation

I will check it out

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: GUEST,Robert Bannister/Perth Morris Men
Date: 19 Jul 15 - 09:07 AM

Is there music notation available anywhere? Sheet music, abc, anything?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: JennyO
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 11:09 PM

I first heard this song 10 years ago just as my folk club was starting up. It was sung by our good friend Tom Hanson of the Roaring Forties.

Since then I've heard him sing it a number of times - never better than this last weekend at a session at Kangaroo Valley Festival on Friday night. He was in fine form.

Unfortunately, Tom is also, shall we say, somewhat follicly challenged, and some wags have been known to sing "When bald men sing". I don't think Tom is amused :-I

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 10 Sep 07 - 07:32 PM

Wow, that's amazing, Kitty and Jake. I now have a nice set of dots, and it's all coming back to me now. It was Richard who was raised to such dizzy heights and nearly went through the ceiling of the Middle Bar Last year!
Someone had told me about Concertina.net before, but I'd sort of forgotten to give it a try.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing / When All Men Sing
From: Lucius
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 04:28 PM

Can someone remind me how to post a midi file or maybe a jpg file. I'm wondering if there is some way to post a score, and if it is even cool, considering that I don't own the rights.

Subject: Tune Add: WHEN ALL MEN SING (Scowcraft, Gifford)
From: Anglogeezer
Date: 06 Sep 07 - 04:12 PM

I sort of fell into this thread a week or so ago.
I've not heard the song so I chased the words up and thought, "I rather like that"
OK so far.
Now I need a tune!!. So I took the notation given in this thread by HERGA KITTY and came up with this ABC :-

************************************
X:1
T:When All Men Sing
M:2/4
L:1/4
C: Words by Keith Scowcraft, tune by Derek Gifford
K:F
|:C/2|FG|AF|BA|G>C|
FG|Ac|B(A|c)>c|
dB|Bd|cB|A>A|
GA|GF|E(C|C)C|
FG|AF|BA|G>C|
FG|Ac|BA|c>c|
dB|Bd|cB|A>A|
B2|G2|(F2|F3/2):|
***************************************
Now, if any of you Mudcatters would like to print out the dots, run through the tune and tell me if it sounds anything like it should!! and suggest changes then I will have both words and tune.

ABC converter found here :-
Concertina Net

regards
Jake

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 04:44 PM

Rumncoke - yes it was a typo, but actually H appears on my pitchpipe(bought from Pete Grassby) because in Germany it signifies B!

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Rumncoke
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 01:36 PM

I was begining to worry there.

H?

Maybe, I thought, all my study of music over the years was some kind of test and now that I am finally getting somewhere, they have decided to throw in something extra just to expand the whatsit.

Hmm - Insecurity? Paranoia?

Phweew - no. Just a typo.

Mind you it doesn't mean that they aren't out to stop me finally reading music, after trying for 50 years it can really seem like an achievement.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Cats
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 11:53 AM

Kitty ~ I think you were right first time, H is definitley a better note to hit any day!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 08:04 AM

10 out of ten 10 for effort

Ray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 09:01 PM

Sorry it's late - the H should have been a G.

K

Subject: Chords Add: WHEN ALL MEN SING
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:49 PM

Oh, and there's some bending in the verses.

When snow transforms the hedgerow thorn
C    F    G    A   F    Bb   A    G

And frost engilds the berry

C    F    G   A   c Bb A

Good men and true the firelogs hew

c    d   Bb   Bb   d c    Bb A

And in the inns make merry

A    G   A   G   F    E C

When singing all as with one voice

C    F   G    A   F   Bb   A   H

It seems the very walls rejoice

C    F   G    A c Bb   A c

And merriment about does spring

c    d Bb Bb d c   Bb    A

When all men sing

A    Bb   G   F

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:15 PM

Nearly right - should be high C on the "bour" bit of neighbour!

Anyway, Trish - hope you can get it from this.

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 08:09 PM

TB and BS

Verse and chorus have the same tune.

I don't do midi notation, but have just picked out the tune on the piano, in the key of F - all encompassed between middle C and the D just over an octave above....

Let every man so pitch his song to help his neighbour sing along
C   F   G   A F   Bb    A   G   C   F   G   A    C    Bb A c

Let each and all contentment bring when all men sing
c    d    Bb Bb d   c Bb    A    A   Bb G    F

Hope this comes out with words aligned to tune when I post it....

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: stallion
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 05:20 AM

should Keepers Fold (c'mon you two) ever get to release any of the stuff done at the live recording in Settle there should be a cracking version of " When all men sing" With harmonies galore, watch out for the live cd's when they come out there were some cracking voices there :o)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: brassy sharman
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:38 AM

Could I reiterate Tattie Boggle if some one could supply a tune it would be great , or organise a sing when this would be a feature.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Micca
Date: 29 Aug 07 - 04:02 AM

Kitty, I have heard Traytons version (and jolly good it is too) but this was the "supposedly" straight verssion, and 1/2 the bods around me were definately singing "when old men sing!!!!
BTW I very much enjoyed your singing of Les's " Roses of No Mans Land" on Sunday

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:36 PM

I remember someone doing it in the Middle bar at Sidmouth last year: he ended up touching the ceiling (albeit low) having been lifted up on to a chair and then higher still!
Can anyone add a midi or dots or ABC to the words? Think I can remember the chorus tune, but not the verse.
TB

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:08 PM

Micca - are you sure that wasn't Trayton's version you heard ("When some men sing")?

Kitty

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Rumncoke
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 07:03 PM

Each year at Sidmouth the Woodland Hotel conservatory has a themed sing in the afternoons of weekdays - and this was the song I chose for 'the seasons' day last year.

I was sure someone else would want to sing it, so I was really pleased when my turn came around and it had not yet been sung.

I am pleased to be able to add the names of the writer and composer to my book, and recommend the song for both the images and sentiments, as well as the harmonic possibilites.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: GUEST,old git
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 06:31 PM

Nick...am in full agreement with your assessment of Scowie..and he's also a great story teller and genuinely funny bloke...have shared accommodation with him and Geoff Miller at Saddleworth for a few years...breakfast time has never been so entertaining!!
geoff t

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 01:49 PM

Let every man so pitch his song,
Then start again, he's got it wrong!


LTS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Carol
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 01:46 PM

Also to help his neighbour get it wrong

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: GUEST,micca at work
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 06:27 AM

this song also gets "Mondegreened" without losing any of its sense. I am sure acoupla years ago aat Towersey at least half the chorus was being sung as "When Old Men sing"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: Nick
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:52 AM

>>Scowie is a brilliant wordsmith

... and a really nice guy as well.

I first heard this song some years back at the Black Bull Bender on the North York moors and asked the singer what it was called as I thought it was wonderful. He told me and then said 'the bloke who wrote it is sitting up there'.

I went up and had a chat to him and complimented him on his song and asked him if he could email me the words. This was a bit of a problem as he didn't do emails but I gave him my address and thought no more about it.

Some days later I received a letter with the words and a cassette of a performance from Australia (from memory) which was really kind.

At the time I had never sung anything in public but I decided that if someone could take the trouble to do what he did the least I could do was to learn and sing the song. So - for good or bad - he also started me singing :)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: GUEST,padgett
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:12 AM

This is a song written by "Scowie" put to music by Derek Gifford and popularised by him!

Scowie is a brilliant wordsmith, but not a singer and Derek has done some excellent work on his poems

Good to see that it is still being sung and enjoyed by all

Ray

Keith Scowcroft = Scowie

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: brassy sharman
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 05:10 AM

Thankyou tell him also I will learn all the words for next year.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: The Doctor
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 04:47 AM

The words are on DT under the title 'When All Men Sing'. It was sung in The Fleece by Jeff Wright of Keepers Fold, and I shall tell him you thought the harmonies were wonderful.

Subject: Lyr Req: When men sing
From: brassy sharman
Date: 28 Aug 07 - 04:13 AM

I was in the Fleece at Whitby when the singaround ended with a superb song with a chorus that included the lyrics "when men sing" anyone know the whole song lyrics, the harmonies were wonderful.