BS: If an American Soldier...

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Sep 07 - 05:08 PM

At one time inquests could come up with a finding of murder, and name the person identified as the killer, but that's no longer the case in England. Charging any suspect would be a matter for the police, and prosecution would depend on the decision of the Crown Prosecution Service.

"Inquests do not determine blame and the verdict must not identify someone as having criminal or civil liability. Possible verdicts include: natural causes, accident or misadventure, suicide, unlawful or lawful killing, industrial disease, and open verdicts (where there is insufficient evidence for any other verdict). The Coroner may also give a verdict in a narrative format.

The Coroner may also report the death to any appropriate person or authority, if action is required to prevent more deaths, in similar circumstances."

From this page about Coroners Courts

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 06:27 PM

I don't think it can actually, artbrooks, though I stand to be corrected.

But in any case this ban doesn't just apply to people who may have been involved in the incident - it appears that "there is a blanket U.S. policy of noncooperation with the civilian inquiries" (from that Washington POst story I linked to earlier.)

That evidently means no representatives of the US military at all, and no evidence supplied directly to the court - "The Times said the document states the U.S. will now only hand over their confidential findings to British military investigators and the British government must request U.S. approval before providing information to coroners' civilian inquests."

That's not exactly a friendly attitude.

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 05:07 PM

Cannot a coroner's court in the UK order a person held for trial? Or is that a misimpression I have gotten from watching too many old movies?

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 01:22 PM

Inquests aren't the same as trials. It is possible to see some logic in a wish to ensure that soldiers serving abroad accused of crimes don't get tried in civilian foreign courts - so long as this is accompanied by a cast-iron determination to put them on trial in domestic military court.

But inquests are something entirely different. They are a way of trying to determine the facts of a death. Refusing to cooperate fully in an inquest is a remarkable thing to do, and it is hard to see it as anything other than a somewhat hostile action.

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 01:05 PM

If the son of a British soldier serving in Germany killed a German civilian, how would the trial proceed?

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 12:57 PM

About the time I left Korea a US soldier decided to go pheasant hunting. He was followed by curious village children, who did not go away when he told them to. So he shot and killed three of them.

The Army turned him over the Korean government for trial and punishment under the Status of Forces Agreement.

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: Donuel
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 11:16 AM

Sadly a US soldier was recently found guilty for revealing certain atrocities commited by the US in the Abi Graib prison. He should have been given the freedom medal. Sentencing is next month.







Read no further
the following is wild speculation of events yet to occur. Foreknowledge of this future may cause a temporal parodox of a very troublsome and personal nature.


xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


13 weeks from now it feels likey that George W Bush's beloved father GWHP Bush and former CIA director, PResident of the United States as well as Saudi Arabia's closest presidential business partner will pass away due to natural causes.

The psychological mixed feeling of GWB will lead to medication problems and result in extremely erratic behavior that will make his past gaffs and inappropriate emotional reactions pale in comparison.

This will be the first time in American history in which a sitting president will preside over the funeral of an ex president who was also his father.

This period of time will be known as the White House
funeral/wedding.

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: artbrooks
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 10:38 AM

The basic theory of US law here is that members of the military who are alleged to have committed offenses while in uniform and performing military duties are liable only to military law. Civilians courts, including coroner's courts, have no jurisdiction. It is entirely different when an offense is committed off-duty, especially if it is in a location, such as the Japanese possession of Okinawa, where there is a "Status of Forces Agreement" in place. There, members of the US military are subject to arrest by Japanese police and trial in Japanese courts.

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Aug 07 - 09:29 AM

Friendly fire is very painful for all concerned ...

But considerably moreso for the recipients.

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: Bert
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 11:45 PM

Right on mg.

Any death is a tragedy, but friendly fire is something that happens. And us Cockneys often deal with death in a lighthearted way such as this.

Perhaps my reference to our illustrious President was just a case of wishful thinking.

Also, Americans are noted for being trigger happy. I knew this guy (a Brit) who fought in Italy in WWII. He told me that if the Jerries came over nobody cared too much, but if the Yanks came over everybody took cover immediately.

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 10:08 PM

"does it apply when it is civilians who are killed by US military in any foreign country"

Seems to - which is why some countries with US bases on their soil 'up for negotiation' have been coming the raw prawn over the last few years (look up about that big island south of Japan...). Uncle Sam has always displayed a strong negative attitude towards the locals about murder and rape committed by its soldiers, whether in war (which is why it won't sign certain international agreements about war crimes!) or peace (when it rapidly spirits the alleged wrongdoers back to the USA pronto!)...

Bit of a silly way to behave then wonder 'why does everybody hate us?'

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 07:32 PM

I note that when there's a friendly fire incident and British soldiers get killed by Americans there's an absolute ban by the US on any American military personnel attending the inquest. (Britain tells coroners US won't provide witnesses for 'friendly fire' inquests) It's come up again with the latest such incident in Afghanistan the other day.

I'm not clear if this applies to all killings - I mean would it apply to road accidents and bar-room brawls? And does it apply when it is civilians who are killed by US military in any foreign country?

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: Ebbie
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 06:03 PM

Buddy Tabor, a Juneau musician, saw a bumper sticker that said: "Cheney and Satan-2008"

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: robomatic
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 05:54 PM

So, is the undercurrent here that you think Dick Cheney would be more conducive to your nation's interests?

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: Grab
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 07:23 AM

"I walked into Dick Cheney's line of fire..."

http://folksongsofthefarrightwing.cf.huffingtonpost.com/ - yes I know it's been posted here before, but it seemed relevant. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 03:30 AM

Want to get rid of Bush? don't waste a bullet.
Do what we Brits did to Blair....Tell him he is no longer welcome!

Where did the bugger go anyway!!

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: mg
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 02:52 AM

No, if it was intentional. If it were an accident, say in Iraq on a visit or something, then yes. If it was intentional it would be fragging, or perhaps it would have a more offical name. Friendly fire is very painful for all concerned and it is not a term I would fling around jokingly. mg

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 02:39 AM

If the Vice President were to shoot the President in a hunting accident, would that be 'friendly fire'?

Subject: RE: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 12:29 AM

It would depend on who was on the winning side afterward.

Subject: BS: If an American Soldier...
From: Bert
Date: 30 Aug 07 - 12:13 AM

...was to shoot the president, would that be considered "friendly fire"?