BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Bobert
Date: 21 Dec 07 - 06:19 PM

IMO, Bush and Clinton can't do anything to repair our tarnished reputation...

Here's my plan:

1. President Obama appoints a real statesman as Secretary of State... Maybe even Jimmy Carter... If J.C. turns him down then maybe Senator Biden... Maybe Dennis Kucinich...

2. President Obama then announces that he is behind the "Saudi Proposal" and agrees to a Middle East Summit to be held within 90 days, with him in attendence, and announce an end date of the occupation of Iraq...

3. President Obama then reduces the DoD budget by $50B his first year with the $50B going toward peacefull endeavors, including the creation of a Department of Peace...

That's for starters...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: bankley
Date: 21 Dec 07 - 06:06 PM

....and in their own 'hood, as well as this site.... R.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: bankley
Date: 21 Dec 07 - 09:16 AM

Seems to me that there's only three ex-Presidents left. Soon to be four. How about the two Bushes ? Kind of a tag-team. Of course they would have to be very selective about where to travel. That would pretty well put the last nail in the coffin of positive image. Anyway, here's to the writers, thinkers, artists, musicians and activists who continue to express sanity and goodwill consistently on the world stage.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: PoppaGator
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 05:17 PM

I think more than one of the above posts shrinks with horror from the phrase "open for business." I think it's a shame that "business" has become a bad word for so many people.

Surely, BIG business ~ supposedly "American" biz, but in truth, a cabal of multinational corporations with headquarters in the US ~ is an amoral and potentially very destrutive force that needs to be kept in check.

American small business is something else again, the only real source of new jobs and innovation.

A very sad, near-tragic, fact is that far too many small business owner/operators mistakenly believe that they have common cause with the multinational giants, and ~ along with ordinary middle-class folks who own a few dollars worth of stock ~ vote against their own self-interest as private citizens, as consumers, and as human beings by supporting those who endorse the agenda of the megacorporations. Like Cheney and his puppet Dubya.

Once the current regime has been ousted, I think it would be a very good idea for a couple of ex-Presidents, both demonstrably superior to Georgie Boy, to reach out to the rest of the world. Perhaps the message should be characterized not so much as "back to business" as "back to normal" ~ or "back to sanity."

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: bankley
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 04:47 PM

Gore and Carter are quite busy with their own good work, free from the 'party line', so to speak. They are more productive away from    theWhitehouse and it's occupants. They can speak their own minds. This is especially true with Gore's stance on environmental issues and Carter's view on the Mid-East esp. Israel/Palestine. AIPAC really doesn't like him, which doesn't bother him, unlike most of those holding office. So pick up a hammer Billary, go build a house for some po' folks.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Riginslinger
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 10:23 AM

Actually, according to Azizi's original post, it was Bill who suggested He and Herbert/Walker do the tour. One has to wonder if he consulted Hillary before he said that.

             The other thing is, what is the relationship between Gore and the Clintons at this point? After Gore shot himself in the foot by taking on Joe Lieberman as a running mate--the same Joe Liebermand who is now endorsing McCain--the relationship seemed to have become kind of strained.

             All of that said, however, Gore and Carter might be the only two prominent Americans left who could patch things up with the rest of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: bankley
Date: 20 Dec 07 - 07:37 AM

Al and Jimmy know know each other quite well. Plus, they are already bringing goodwill and (un)common sense to the world. A Nobel prize each is part of that recognition. Hillary is 'jumping the gun',,, literally.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Riginslinger
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 05:45 PM

I think Gore and Carter would make great ambassadors to the world, but I've never seen them in public together. I wonder if they even know each other.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Dec 07 - 12:01 AM

Those 2 on a world tour sounds more like whirled peas, Art!

Sorry, but I'm agin it. With Azizi here. Carter would be a great choice but I'm not sure his health is up to it. Gore, maybe....

And, IMO, 'open for business' has long been much of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:40 PM

Azizi,

Give peace a chance!

Art

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 08:09 PM

Personally, I'd like to see Hillary and Bill as co-presidents. Some First Ladies have been so in action, to some extent, if not in name. Perhaps, with them, it is an idea whose time has come. Then, again, they are both such strong personalities, maybe one has to be "on top" for lack of a better way of saying it.

As far as sending Bill and anyone else around the world. Yes, if it is to help with our country's image and garners good will for us. I don't much care who does it, if they can accomplish that. It would be good if they came from both sides of the aisle, imo and show some cooperation. I think THAT is what the public would like to see above all, cooperation and working towards common goals without all of the political grandstanding, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:53 PM

Barry, I'm not sure how this make Hillary look great. It seems to me it makes her look like she's not in control of her campaign-or at least it raises questions about how Hillary would be able to "control" what Bill says or does if she were elected President.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: GUEST,Barry, at wife's job
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 07:40 PM

There's no way elder Bush could agree with what Bill proposed & Bill, I'm sure knew that but what a brillant move on Bill's part to announce that type of cross party play. Forces the Bushes hands, mouths & throats in many ways & has Hillary looking as great as she is.

Hillary is not Bill's fool nor anyone else's but Bill will play the part of 1st Man very well & hopefully pull in Al as best man too. Jimmy Carter did much good under Bill & older George I'd love it if Hillary had a mission for him too.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: PoppaGator
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 05:19 PM

I'm not surprised that GHW Bush felt obligated to nix this proposal, and that he couldn't possibly have known about it in advance. He is still a Republican, after all, as well as his baby's daddy. How much humiliation is he supposed to swallow?

However, the idea was not entirely far-fetched. I as tempted to assume that everyone knows about Bill and George-the-First's cooperative fundraising for Katrina/Rita relief, but maybe many of your out there in the "normal" world don't know, or forget. The two of them have been doing a LOT of travelling together over the past couple of years, seeming to get along very easily and nicely, and have been pretty successful in collecting donations.

So, it's undrestandable that Hill and/or Bill might have assumed that George the Elder might continue to play nice and cooperate with a newly elected Prez Clinton and his good buddy, her husband. Of course, at this time, the old guy absolutely has to visibly support his idiot son, and also to be seen as supporting the GOP and whomever emerges as its candidate.

After the election is done, however, GHWB will be more free to act as a "senior diplomat" and to cooperate with the new President, regardless of who he/she might be, or from which party.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: beardedbruce
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 04:39 PM

CNN - December 18, 2007

Elder Bush nixes Clinton trip idea

Bill Clinton said Monday he and former President Bush would go on a diplomatic mission if Hillary Clinton became president.
WASHINGTON (CNN) — Former President George H.W. Bush has shot down his successor Bill Clinton's idea of a diplomatic mission under a Hillary Clinton presidency that would send him and other notables abroad to assure other nations that "America is open for business and cooperation again."

The move came one day after Bill Clinton made the suggestion on the campaign trail in South Carolina, in response to a question from a supporter about his wife's "number-one priority" upon reaching the White House.

In a statement sent to CNN Tuesday afternoon, former President Bush's chief of staff Jean Becker said that he "wholeheartedly supports the President of the United States, including his foreign policy. He has never discussed an 'around-the-world-mission' with either former President Bill Clinton or Sen. Clinton, nor does he think such a mission is warranted since he is proud of the role America continues to play around the world as the beacon of hope for freedom and democracy.

"President Bush is excited about several of the excellent Republican candidates running for president, and looks forward to discussing their candidacy once the Republican nominee is determined."

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Don Firth
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 02:07 PM

On the one hand, repudiating George W. Bush's foreign policies and general John Wayne attitude toward the rest of the world sounds like an excellent idea. He has done nearly irreparable damage to the respect and regard that other countries used to have for the United States. But (even though he may think so) he's not the Lone Ranger (to mix cowboy metaphors a bit). He's just been far more blatant and generally more rude and bull-headed than some of his predecessors (along with obviously being a little man in shoes far to big for him).

Yet, talk is cheap. I think it would be more eloquent—and convincing—to show the world by our behavior that we have decided to join the community of civilized nations.

Avoiding international strife, particularly involving military action, sanctions, economic boycotts and such through the use of quiet but consistent diplomacy is the way to change, not just our image in the world, but our character as a nation.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: GUEST,dianavan
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 01:23 PM

Ideally, political leaders from both parties shape the policies and image of the U.S. but Azizi is right, how do you really know who is at the helm; Hillary, Bill or George? As far as I'm concerned, none of them have any integrity. If the U.S. wants a new image, you can't rely on the old guard to provide it.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 01:19 PM

I don't think it would "overshadow" her, and I don't think gender is the point in this particular porposal. But I do understand your argument that emphasizing "business" is not how you clean up the mess W left behind, and using W's father does sort of have a ring of insincerity to it regardless of his own track record. In fact, I think Hillary's suggesting it is a symptom of her "Bush-Lite" side which people have been worried about.

A

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 01:01 PM

George D. Bush=George W. Bush {I was thinking of the nickname "Dubya"}

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:59 PM

1. As a woman, I'm concerned that the first woman president of the USA would be overshadowed by her more charismatic former president of the USA husband

2. Since Bill Clinton is known to have a mind of his own {whose idea was this goodwill ambassadorship of Bill and Bush I, for instance?}, how will the US citizens and the foreign leaders know whether Bill is winging it or speaking for his wife?

3. Given the disastrous "reign" of George D. Bush, it seems to me that whoever the president of the USA will be in 2009-and I very much hope that person is a Democratic-he or she would want to stay faaar away from the Bushes. Having Dubya's father going around the world representing the USA after his son has made such a huge mess doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

4. Both Bill Clinton and H.W. Bush have xonsiderable political baggage of their own {to put it mildly}. Why relive all of that? It seems to me that people in the USA are ready for change. That's what reporters are picking up about the spirit of the times. Therefore, imo the last thing we would want to do is go back to the 1990s and 1980s.

5. Why should the first thing that the USA does is announce that we're open for business? I think whoever represents American in the world {and I'd love two of those people to be former president Jimmy Carter and former Vice President & Noble prize winner Al Gore even though they are from the past} should be apologizing for all the mess we've made in the world since Bush II entered the White House. I'd also love it if those two men and some new intelligent, skilled, ethical people-men as well as women-would help make plans about how we undo all the wrong we have done in the last 8 years and restore our good name in the nation and in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: GUEST,Seiri Omaar
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:53 PM

They'd have to do it right, though. Do you guys trust them enough to do it?

Subject: RE: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Amos
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 12:27 PM

IF it were done effectively it might go a long way to take th e edge of our plummeting repute. Why do you think it is a terrible idea?

A

Subject: BS: All around the world with Bill & Bush I
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Dec 07 - 11:16 AM

December 17, 2007
Bill Clinton: George H.W. Bush will help President Hillary

"ORANGEBURG, South Carolina (CNN) – Former President Bill Clinton said Monday that the first thing his wife Hillary will do when she reaches the White House is dispatch him and his predecessor, President George H.W. Bush, on an around-the-world mission to repair the damage done to America's reputation by the current president — Bush's son, George W. Bush.

"Well, the first thing she intends to do, because you can do this without passing a bill, the first thing she intends to do is to send me and former President Bush and a number of other people around the world to tell them that America is open for business and cooperation again," Clinton said in response to a question from a supporter about what his wife's "number one priority" would be as president.

A spokesman for the George H.W. Bush was not immediately available to comment on whether the former president would chip in some diplomatic help after his son leaves office next year.

Clinton and the elder Bush, rivals in the 1992 presidential election, have grown chummy in recent years, often traveling and appearing at public events together. In 2005, they started a charity to help victims of Hurricane Katrina.

UPDATE: The Republican National Committee issued this statement in response to Clinton's comments:

"In 2009, a Republican president will be working with our friends and allies abroad to continue to keep our nation safe," said RNC spokesman Danny Diaz. "The American people expect our leaders — both current and former — to present serious solutions to the very real challenges confronting our nation."

– CNN South Carolina Producer Peter Hamby

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/17/bill-clinton-george-hw-bush-will-help-president-hillary-2/

**

This sounds like a terrible idea to me.

What do you think?